Democracy Now! Daily Digest ~ A Daily Independent Global News Hour with Amy Goodman & Juan González ~ Tuesday, 22 October 2013
STORIES:
As the October 22nd Coalition to Stop Police Brutality, Repression and the Criminalization of a Generation holds protests in several cities today, we bring you the shocking story of Mohamed Bah, a 28-year-old college student from the African nation of Guinea. He was shot dead by New York City police officers on September 25, 2012. Police arrived at Mohamed Bah’s apartment after his mother, Hawa Bah, called 911 because she thought he was depressed, and wanted an ambulance to take him to the hospital. Police claimed he lunged at officers with a knife. But many questions remain unanswered. We are joined by Hawa and her attorneys, Mayo Bartlett and Randolph McLaughlin, both longtime civil rights attorneys.
Click here to watch part 2 of this segment about a similar case involving the police murder of a bipolar Puerto Rican artist whose wife called 911 for medical help.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As the October 22nd Coalition to Stop Police Brutality, Repression and the Criminalization of a Generation holds protests in several cities today, we bring you a shocking story about two eerily similar police killings in the New York area. In both cases, a family member called 911 seeking help dealing with a distressed loved one. Both cases ended with the police killing the man they were called on to help.
Mohamed Bah was shot dead by New York City police officers on September 25th, 2012. Bah was a 28-year-old college student from the African nation of Guinea. Samuel Cruz was shot dead by police in New Rochelle, New York, on May 26, 2013. Cruz was 48 years old. He was an artist from Puerto Rico. In both cases, police say the men were shot after they lunged at officers with a knife. But many questions remain unanswered.
Police arrived at Mohamed Bah’s apartment after his mother, Hawa Bah, called 911 because she thought he was depressed, and she wanted an ambulance to take him to the hospital. In Samuel Cruz’s case, his wife, Elsa, called 911 because she was worried her husband had stopped taking medication for his schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Both women join us in a Democracy Now! exclusive today. The Cruz family is filing a lawsuit today against the New Rochelle Police Department. The Bah family has already sued the NYPD. We’re
also joined by the attorneys for both families, Mayo Bartlett and Randolph McLaughlin, both longtime civil rights attorneys who also represented the family of Kenneth Chamberlain, the White Plains, New York, Marine veteran who was shot dead by police in 2011 in his home after he accidentally set off his medical alert pendant early in the morning.
We invited representatives from both the New York City and New Rochelle police departments to join us today.
We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Randolph McLaughlin, can you just give us a summary of the case of Mohamed Bah?
RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: In Mohamed Bah’s case, his mother called 911 hoping to get an ambulance to come and take her son to the hospital. Two officers arrived, and she explained to them, "I didn’t call the police; I wanted an ambulance." And they explained to her that "The way it works in New York is we come first and check on the situation, and then we’ll get the ambulance." She and the two officers went upstairs to the fifth floor in the apartment building, and the officers knocked on Mr. Bah’s door. He opened the door. And when he saw the officers, he said, "I didn’t call you. You’ve got the wrong door." And he tried to shut the door. Instead, they forced their way in, and there was a little struggle back and forth with the door. But at no time did he yell at them. At no time did he brandish a weapon. He shut the door and locked it.
The officers then told Mrs. Bah and her colleagues to go back outside. So they left the building, assuming that the officers would help to get an ambulance. And as she stood outside, she saw more and more officers coming in with shields, riot gear, all sorts of weapons, guns, tasers. There were so many officers in the hallway at one point that you literally couldn’t get by them. They commandeered the entire building. They wouldn’t let anyone in, wouldn’t let anyone out. Over about an hour of yelling, banging on the door, putting things under the door like a mirror of some sort, they broke the door down, tasered, beanbagged and shot him eight times. The last bullet went into his head, and had stippling around the entry wound, which says that that shot, which probably took his life, was at close range.
AMY GOODMAN: Hawa Bah, you are Mohamed’s mother.
HAWA BAH: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: You had just come from Guinea to visit with your son?
HAWA BAH: Yes. I usually sent to come here. I can come every year to see and visit him. But in 2010, I feel like he in college, he big, he need a marriage. So I say, "OK, when I go this year, I’m not going—I’m not coming back here. You’ve got to go and marry, get married." He say, "OK, Mommy." He say, "I want to get married, because I know you—it’s on your heart, then I will meet you there." It’s 2011, I have not come. But 2012, close into [inaudible] after he call me: "Mommy, are you coming this year?" I say, "Yes, I will come this year." Then we still talking, talking, until I arrive here. I arrive here. He say—the next day I will come in, he called—I call him. He say, "OK, Mommy, I’m so happy you’re coming. You’ll meet me to the airport." And I didn’t meet him to the airport. I call him. He say, "OK, Mommy, you’ll meet me downstair. I’m sorry. I apologize." I meet him downstair. We talk a little bit. He take the iPhone and take my address, my sister address. We walk upstairs. We talk. He tell me many things. It don’t make no sense for me—to me. And he was wound already.
AMY GOODMAN: He had a wound?
HAWA BAH: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Above his eye?
HAWA BAH: Yes. He told me that, "Mommy, I’ve lost so much blood." He say, "I lost so much blood." "Boy, you are not talking good." If he talk a little bit, he can bend the head like this, and he can stop talking. And he will lose weight. He lose a lot of weight. He never shave self. He got sick. And he—he limping. I say, "Oh." Then he keep a razor blade. He say, "Mommy, you take out the stitches for me." I took—I can’t make [inaudible]. I say, "No, we got to go to the hospital." He say, "No, Mommy, I’m just tired. I want to rest. I don’t want to go to the hospital." I say, "No, boy, you cannot keep yourself like this in the house. You’ve got to go to the hospital." On the 28th, [inaudible] if you remember, 2010, we celebrate my birthday to Staten Island and Statue of Liberty. He was so happy. He say, "I just want to rest."
Then we talk a lot, but it don’t make sense to me what he talking. Then he say, "Today you are not sleep here. You go home day after tomorrow. You cook some [inaudible] and meat you bring for me." I say, "OK." I say, "Then stay safe. I will try to wake you up. I’m so proud of you. You’re a prince." "Mother, Mommy, I love you. I miss you. I will miss you so much. I love you." Then he tried to wear his shoes and took me to the—to the cab, look for a cab for me. He walked me, took me to a place where I can took the cab. Boy, I look at my son. I couldn’t believe I met him. As soon I got in the car, he lift a hand like this. Boy, he can’t talk much. He can say he have a—he say he’s not—he’s not feeling good.
Then I call my friend. I say, "Oh." I call her and cry. I say, "I can’t go to." I say, "Mohamed is sick." I say, "Mohamed is sick. You can’t believe it. He not even talking correctly." I say, "Oh, [inaudible]." I say, "Can help me talking to him? They will take him to the hospital." He say, "If you feel like he depressed?" I say, "I don’t know, because he wound already, and he told me"—
AMY GOODMAN: He’s wounded already.
HAWA BAH: Yes. And he told me he lost a lot of blood. And he told me about seven days he will [inaudible] in the house, so which mean I really don’t know what’s going on. I want to take him to the hospital. He say, "OK, let me call some adult help here. They can come talk to him. Is he getting upset to go to the hospital?" He give me the number—she give me the number, and she call also. And the people say, "OK, if he think like this and he wounded already, we cannot take him to depression place. We got to take him to the big hospital first. You should call 911, will take him to the big hospital. They do general checkups, don’t know where to wound him—how he wound and how he limping, what make him lost weight, before so that they can giving him treatment." But I didn’t call like that. I go to bed. I didn’t sleep good.
In the morning again, I wake up. He call me when I was showering. He say, "Oh, Mommy, you see my channel?" I say, "What channel?" He say, "Observation is my channel. Do you look at my people?" I say, "Oh, God. There’s no [inaudible]." Then I call a friend of me who he stay until he got the apartment. I say, "Please." I say, "I came yesterday. Mohamed’s sick." I say, "Go to the apartment and talk to him. Let he go to the hospital. He’s not feeling good at all." And the man know Mohamed love him so much. He go knock the door and open—he open the door. He look at him. He say, "No, I’m not going to the hospital." But he weaker, and he’s not feeling good. Then the people say, "No, come. We should go to the hospital. You see how you look? You’re feeling bad like this. Let’s go to the hospital." He say, "No, I don’t want to go to the hospital. I just want to rest." They say, "Boy, how long you can rest like this alone?"
Then they came outside and called me. He say, "Boy, Madame Bah, how can this boy get sick like that?" Then they cry. I say, "Boy, don’t cry." I say, "If you cry like this, I can feel so bad. I don’t—I just arrived yesterday. I met him in the condition. I want to take him to the hospital." I say, "Then what you do—he didn’t upset?" He say, "No." I say, "Then call the ambulance. Please take him to the hospital for me. Since yesterday, the people advise me that. But I was trying the last chance with you to see if he can upset." He say, "Oh, if I call an ambulance, come here. We can call the ambulance together." Then I move from my place, come meet him downstair. We call the ambulance." When we call the ambulance—
AMY GOODMAN: So you called 911?
HAWA BAH: Yeah, the son called the 911. Then I said, "I want an ambulance. My son’s sick. I want to take him to the hospital." Then it was the end of the life of my son. Those men arrive.
AMY GOODMAN: The police arrived.
HAWA BAH: Yeah, police arrive. When I saw the police car, I see him, I say, "Hey, I don’t call police. I call an ambulance." I say, "I don’t call police." He say, "No, ma’am, don’t worry. In New York here, when you call an ambulance, we will come first. We will look at the person and call an ambulance." He said, "Don’t worry, he will be OK." We walk upstairs. When we walk upstairs, me and he and my other two girls who walk upstairs, he knock the door. He didn’t tell Mohamed, "Your mom say go to the hospital." He say—just say, "Mohamed, open the door. I came for you."
AMY GOODMAN: So the police said, "Open the door." They didn’t let them know that you were there.
HAWA BAH: No.
AMY GOODMAN: So he had no idea that you had called them.
HAWA BAH: No, no. Then, when he knock the door, he say, "I came for you." Mohamed opened the door and look at him. He say, "Police?" Because I know it’s a police because of the car, but he—as soon he look at him, he say, "Is it police? I don’t call you. Go away. I don’t—I no call police. You knock on the wrong door." Then, suddenly, the man wanted to force and enter in the room, in the apartment. He push. Mohamed push. He put his foot. Mohamed just pushed the door and locked the door, go to bed. Now [inaudible] he came out of [inaudible]. They didn’t know. He just look behind like this. He bend his head like this on the corner. Then he started paging his phone like this. I don’t—I didn’t hear what he say. I was standing there looking at him. I lifted my hand, wanted to talk to Mohamed. He said, "No, don’t worry. I will take care. He will be OK."
Then is a lady came with the white clothes. He got a—he got the hospitals, and she got the hospitals. And he say, "OK, there’s the ambulance lady. Go downstairs. He will be OK. We’ll take him there. We’ll go to the hospital." Since it’s fifth floor is a step—and we never think something can be wrong, different things. We just thinking he was talking to him. We going downstairs, before we reached the stair—
AMY GOODMAN: So you went downstairs.
HAWA BAH: Yeah, we went downstairs. Then the two officer in the same uniform meet us. We go up to third floor. Then those people meet us. They say, "No, ma’am, go downstairs. We will take him to the—we’ll help you to take him to the hospital. He will be OK." Then four of them be upstairs. When they be upstairs, the first one who came knock the door, he came meet me right on the door to the apartment. He say, "No, ma’am, come outside. We’ll take him to the hospital. He will be OK."
Then he say, "Who you know here?" I say, "What do you mean, who I know?" He say, "No. I ask you who you know, wider family." I say, "This is my family friends, and I have another family in Queens, and his sister working to D.C." He say, "OK, I want to know what your work." I tell him my work. Then he say to the other people, how they related to Mohamed. We thought he filling form for the hospital. Each person explain to him how they related—relative friends in neighborhood in Guinea. Then he signed the form, signed the paper. He writed the paper, and he go upstairs.
Then he come back. He say, "Mohamed don’t want to open the door." I say, "If Mohamed don’t want to open the door, let me talk to him. He didn’t know I’m here. If he know I’m here, he will open the door." As soon I tell him that—he’s stooding right there—I see a man who have a shield coming. I say, "Hey, where that man going?" I say, "Don’t broke his door. I will talk to him; he will open the door." That man ran, go upstairs.
AMY GOODMAN: These men are police officers.
HAWA BAH: I don’t know. He was just having the big shield like this.
AMY GOODMAN: Uh-huh. A big—
RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: Shield.
AMY GOODMAN: Shield, ah.
HAWA BAH: Shield, yes, yes. And after that one, I see a man coming again. He have a long [inaudible], like two-meter [inaudible], something like mirror and knot, big knot like this. I feel like the knot is a hammer. They want to broke in the door. I say, "Please, don’t broke the door and hurt my son. If he don’t want to open the door, I will talk to him, and he will open the door." He don’t listen to me. He just walk up. Then, third one, I see officer coming, having a gun, holding the gun like this on his—
AMY GOODMAN: Holding his gun at his waist.
HAWA BAH: Yeah, like they rushing. I say, "Please, I just arrive yesterday. My son’s sick. I want to take him to the best hospital in America. I can pay. Don’t worry about that. Please help me to talk to him. He will open the door." Finally, when all of them reach upstairs, he came outside and said, "Mohamed don’t want to open the door." Then he rush upstair again, come back. He say, "Oh, we open the door, is a couple of shoot." I say, "What do you mean, couple of shoot? You shoot my son?" He say, "No, it’s a little scratch." He say he will be OK.
Well, before he arrive, I feel so bad. My back and my stomach all hurt me. I say, [inaudible]. I sent two people, when he finally fill the form. I say, "Go tell this man my son don’t know I’m here. Let me talk to him. He will open the door." They don’t let the two girls go in. Then, the other girl, when I feel so bad, I say, "I think those people are killing"—I say, "I feel so bad. I got pain all over my body." I say, "Please talk to those people. They should not hurt my son. If he’s opening the door, I will talk to him. He will open the door."
Then he run to come. He say, "Oh, we open the door, but it’s a scratch, a little scratch." I say, what you—let couple of shot, and a little scratch. I say, "What do you mean? You shoot my son?" He say, "No, it’s a little scratch. Boy, he will be OK." Then he run going upstair. He meet his two friends again. Then they come. Three of them started smoking, looking at the [inaudible]. They are looking at also the place where he point to me. I say, "Hey, look." I say, "Look, those people are smoking, like they’re not coming to help somebody who’s sick." Then, after that one, the other man put those tape, the yellow—
AMY GOODMAN: The crime scene tape, the yellow tape.
HAWA BAH: Yeah, I say—I say, "[inaudible], when those people put this tape, it’s something dangerous." Say, "Ma’am, you are so worried. Those people, they are officers." They come—and he say, "I’m coming. I’m coming." Then he go upstairs, coming back. Then he was doing CPR. They was doing CPR for my son. I say, "What those people are doing CPR to my son?" Then I want to run, rush go to the—in the ambulance, because he always coming and say, "How many people are there?" We say, "Five." Then he go upstairs again. "How many people?" when he come back. We say, "Five." Then we wanted to go in the ambulance. Then the lady—
AMY GOODMAN: How long did it take before—when you heard the shots to when the ambulance came?
HAWA BAH: We didn’t hear the shot. It’s the people who upstairs on the other building hear the shot. They were in third floor; we were in the—on the soil. We didn’t hear it.
AMY GOODMAN: On the ground.
HAWA BAH: On the ground, yes. Then, boy, it take a time when he tell me he open the door and is a little of scratch, couple of shot, it’s a little scratch. I say, "You shoot my son?" He say, "No." That take a while time. But for them to reach there and got that shot, that one didn’t take a time. But for them to come outside take a time. So I was thinking that you’re talking to him for them to walk and come outside. Then I see them with CPR. I say, "But you are doing with my son, and you’re doing CPR?"
AMY GOODMAN: Randolph McLaughlin, in this period, from the time of the shot to the time when he was taken away, he was dead at that point?
RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: Well, it’s not clear. When he came out in this—on a stretcher, what Mrs. Bah is saying is that the ambulance attendants were doing CPR on him. Now, you don’t do CPR on a person who’s dead. But what’s really tragic here is the—first, the shooting, but then there were photographs and a witness who said that they literally dragged his body down the stairs, and there was blood smeared throughout the floors. And the police came the next day to clean up the blood that they had just smeared on the floors. They treated him like he was a criminal. And the tragedy here is, he didn’t do anything wrong. He was in his home. The call was for medical attention. There’s absolutely no excuse as to why they didn’t allow his mother to speak to him.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Randy McLaughlin, who is the attorney for Hawa Bah. Her son, Mohamed Bah, on September 25th, 2012, she felt he wasn’t doing well, he wasn’t making sense, he had an injury above his eye, and he was limping, and she called 911 to ask for an ambulance to come to pick him up. She had just come from Guinea. Within an hour or so, from the period that you called them and they came to the period when he was brought downstairs, the police had shot him, and he died. This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’re going to hear the case of Samuel Cruz. It was his wife, Elsa Cruz, who called the police for help. And you’ll find out what happened. Stay with us.
~~~
The civil rights lawsuits filed by the families of Samuel Cruz and Mohamed Bah, both murdered by police after family members called 911 for medical assistance, include a call to train police how to handle crisis intervention and how to respond to calls for help with people who are emotionally disturbed. Unlike the 2,500 communities in over 40 states, New York City and New Rochelle police do not have crisis intervention teams designed by mental health professionals. Many of these so-called CITs are based on what has become known as the "Memphis Model," a policy developed there after an officer killed a mentally ill person in 1987. We’re joined by Sam Cochran, retired police officer who served as the coordinator of the Memphis Police Department’s Crisis Intervention Team for 20 years, from 1988 to 2008. He is now project coordinator with the University of Memphis’s CIT Center, where he is nationally known for his work.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. The civil rights lawsuits filed by the families of Samuel Cruz and Mohamed Bah include a call to train police how to respond to calls to help with people who are emotionally disturbed. Unlike more than 2,000 communities in over 40 states, NYPD and New Rochelle police do not have crisis intervention teams designed by mental health professionals. Many of the these so-called CITs are based on what’s become known as the "Memphis Model," a policy developed there after an officer killed a mentally ill person in 1987.
For more, we’re joined by Sam Cochran, a retired police officer who served as the coordinator of the Memphis Police Department’s Crisis Intervention Team 20 years, from 1988 to 2008. He’s now project coordinator with the University of Memphis’s CIT Center, where he’s nationally known for his work.
Welcome to Democracy Now! You’ve heard these stories, Sam Cochran, of family members calling police to get their loved ones to a hospital or to get them help, and the police shooting their—coming to the scene and shooting the people dead. Can you talk about your response and what Memphis has done?
SAM COCHRAN: Well, first of all, that’s—stories like this is happening across the United States of America. All we have to do is search newspaper articles, and you’ll read events similar to this throughout. And communities are looking, very intensely, how can we might do things better?
In Memphis, years ago, in fact, 1987, our officers responded to a call that came in through our 911 system. It was reported to our dispatcher that the individual had a mental illness, 27 years old. He was armed with a very large knife. He was cutting himself. He was threatening family members. He was also threatening neighbors that were also arriving on the scene. And they needed help. Our officers arrived. After a very brief encounter with this individual, he was shot multiple times and died as a result.
The headlines of that particular event, newspaper coverage of that particular event, caught the attention of our mayor at that particular time, and saw that our community was hurting, saw that our police department was hurting, and formed a community task force to address these issues. And he charged this particular task force with the mission to come up with a plan, a program to provide safety for the officers, safety for the family members, and safety for the consumers of mental health services, people who have mental illness.
And what came out of that, months of study and planning, was what is referred to as the Crisis Intervention Team program. Now, many times people think, "Well, that’s just a law enforcement program." No, the team actually stands for a community program. CIT is what we refer to it, a crisis intervention team, is not a law enforcement program, it’s a community program. And the community program that I’m suggesting to you is that of partnerships. There’s three main partnerships: law enforcement, of course, local mental health services providers and also advocacy. And our advocacy within the United States of America, clearly NAMI is the champion advocacy of this program, but also Mental Health of America has joined in. So, other advocacies, other partnerships can be added, but that’s the—that’s the foundation of this program.
And it’s a program that reaches out through not only community services, but training to our law enforcement officers to be a first responder. We want a specialist on that particular scene. So we’re not talking about an entire team of specialists; we’re only talking about one particular officer that arrives on the scene and is to be leader of that particular scene, and other officers are there to support the officer with regards to the needs of the crisis.
So, it’s been very successful for us for over—for 25 years now. We have programs throughout the United States, estimated at around 2,800 CIT programs throughout 45 states. We also have programs in Canada and Australia, and fixing to have a program in Sweden that we just found out about. So, it’s been very, very encouraging. It’s been uplifting from the fact that the community supports the program, but also the officers have confidence. And that’s real critical.
There are some common threads that I was hearing within the—both calls or both the ladies that were articulating the facts. The presence of fear was throughout both crisis events. In our training, we address specifically a role of the CIT officers to address fear. It’s very, very critical. And the fear that can be present is fear of the family members that may be present, fear of neighbors that could be present, fear of the consumer or the person who has a mental illness, and also fear of the officers. And those things need to be addressed in order to slow things down, in order to develop a plan, in order to be able to assess and reassess and maybe even change a plan, if necessary.
AMY GOODMAN: Just last week, in Dallas, Texas, a police officer shot a mentally ill man standing outside his own home in broad daylight. The man’s mother had called police for help. Police originally claimed the man, Bobby Bennett, had lunged at officers with a knife, but a neighbor’s security video told a different story. The disturbing video shows Bennett sitting in an office chair in the street. As the police approach, Bennett wheels back in the chair and stands up, hands at his side. He was then repeatedly shot by a police officer. Bennett did survive but remains hospitalized. Police originally charged Bennett with aggravated assault but dropped the charge after the video came to light. Randall McLaughlin, the Memphis Model and how this fits into the case of Samuel Cruz—you’re bringing a lawsuit today on his behalf and his wife Elsa—and in the case of Mohamed Bah? They say in both cases they had knives.
RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: We think that the Memphis Model is the superior approach and the best practice in terms of handling these issues. It’s eerily similar, in each of the cases that we’re involved with—Mayo and myself, Debra Cohen and Franciscus Diaba—the police say the exact same thing in Chamberlain, in Bah and in Cruz: "He came at us with a knife, and we killed him." Well, the question really becomes, as Sergeant Cochran said—and I believe he was a sergeant at the time: What was their plan? Did they have a plan when they broke in the door? Why did they break in the door? Why didn’t they slow things down? Why did they aggravate the situation? In fact, the officers in all of these cases have not been trained in crisis intervention. They’ve been trained in the use of force—deadly force. And if that’s all the officer has at his disposal, he will use it.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what are—tell me about, Mayo Bartlett, these two lawsuits. We only have a minute, but you’re filing today in New Rochelle on behalf of Samuel Cruz. What are you demanding?
MAYO BARTLETT: Yes. Well, we’re demanding, first of all, a review in the training and policy and protocols. We’re also—we’re demanding damages for the loss of the lives of individuals here. But we’re hopeful that as a result of these lawsuits there will be significant changes, so that, hopefully, models like the Memphis Model can be implemented in New York City and in Westchester County, so that we don’t have to have two ladies in this situation where they have lost loved ones and that they’re trying to now find ways to reclaim their lives.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you all for being with us. I know this is very difficult to retell these stories. We want to thank Elsa Cruz, wife of Samuel Cruz; Hawa Bah, mother of Mohamed Bah—both men killed by police when their loved ones called 911 to get them help. Randolph McLaughlin and Mayo Bartlett, co-counsels representing the Bah and Cruz families. And thanks so much in Memphis to Sam Cochran, who spent 20 years heading the Memphis Police Department’s Crisis Intervention Team, now project coordinator with the University of Memphis’s CIT Center.
~~~
On May 26, Elsa Cruz called 911 because she was worried her husband, Samuel Cruz, had stopped taking his medication for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Police from New Rochelle, New York, soon arrived. By the time they had left, Cruz had been shot dead. Police claimed he lunged at officers with a knife. Cruz was a 48-year-old artist from Puerto Rico. The Cruz family is filing a lawsuit against the New Rochelle Police Department today. We speak to Elsa and her attorneys, Mayo Bartlett and Randolph McLaughlin, both longtime civil rights attorneys.
Click here to watch part 1 of this segment about the case of Mohamed Bah, who was killed by New York City police after his mother called 911 for medical help.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: "American Skin (41 Shots)" by Bruce Springsteen, that song for Amadou Diallo, who was a Guinean immigrant who came to this country and was killed on February 4th, 1999, in a hail of 41 police bullets. His mother Kadiatou has attended some of the rallies on behalf of Mohamed Hah’s family, Mohamed Bah who was killed on September 25th, 2012, in his home, when his mother, Hawa Bah, called the police to ask for an ambulance. She felt that her son was sick.
This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We are also joined, in addition to Hawa Bah and her attorney Randolph McLaughlin, by Elsa Cruz, wife of Samuel Cruz, as well as Mayo Bartlett, the other attorney in both of these cases.
Elsa Cruz, if you can describe what happened to your husband, what day was it?
ELSA CRUZ: It was May 26, 2012.
AMY GOODMAN: 2013.
ELSA CRUZ: Oh, ’13, yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: And where were you?
ELSA CRUZ: I’m the person who called the police that time, and I’m there, that was happened. And I came from the church. And I was so concerned to my husband, that even a call, he never responded to me and to friends, the sister. And it was the time that—
AMY GOODMAN: This is in New Rochelle.
ELSA CRUZ: Yes, ma’am. And the sister went there at around 10:30 in the church, looking for my husband. He’s in the church. And—
AMY GOODMAN: It’s Sunday.
ELSA CRUZ: That was Sunday. And he met our pastor, and he asking if his brother is there, but the pastor, "Yeah, he’s here, but last—last week." But the pastor listened to her and said, "What happened to Samuel?" She said, "I’m looking for my brother, because when I visit him in the—in the apartment, he’s not there. And somebody telling me that, you know, is something happened to him? While he’s talking, it’s different, you know. He’s so—talk very fast. He give his money to, you know, those people who are homeless. They’re in the street, to give money, $100. When he eat in the restaurant, he give 100 tips, you know?" And the sister was worried. "Is there something wrong with my brother?" And then the pastor said, "OK, if he can be here in the church maybe this morning, I’m going to—I’m going to tell you." She said, "Pastor, please call me." Exactly that Sunday, I’m there. And—but before that there was happening, I’m arrive from my country. I was—I was there for vacation for one month.
AMY GOODMAN: You had been away.
ELSA CRUZ: Yes, I’m away. And we communicate—communicating through webcam, and I observed that there is something different, the way he talk, the way expression, you know. He said—
AMY GOODMAN: He was taking medication?
ELSA CRUZ: At the time, I think that that was the time that there is something wrong for that, and I don’t understand. But I reminded him in the webcam, said, "Say hi." And then he said, "Hi." But he is different, really, the way he talked, the way—the gesture that he has. I said, "Remember, don’t miss your pills, you know?" And, "Oh, no, don’t worry. I’m OK. I’m OK." And, you know—and there’s something that bothered me, so I’m in a hurry to go back to—go back home. So, that Sunday, the pastor said, "Elsa, the sister of your husband is coming here." But I said—but that was happened. I wanted to explain. But I arrived from the airport. He took me the airport, and he’s very pale—
AMY GOODMAN: He met you at the airport.
ELSA CRUZ: Yeah, yeah, the airport. He took me and brought me in our apartment. That day of my arriving, you know, we talk. I share what had happened to my vacation. And he said, "How much money did you spend there?" I said, "$2,000," you know, for almost 12 years. Imagine that, you know, $2,000 is not enough. And I saw his face. It seems that his eyes was big. And he said, "Oh, OK, go out of my apartment. Find your hotel." "What? I miss you. You know, I joke with you. I miss you, you know. I’m in a hurry to go back here, because, you know, I promised you to go back as soon as possible." "No, no, no. Go." And he’s shaking. And it seems that he’s so angry with me, and said, "OK, I’m going to call you the police, if you will not go out to our apartment." I said, "Samuel, why? There’s something wrong to you." He said, "Go, go, go, go." What I did, I took my bag and go out. And I was shaking also, and I was shocked, because this is different. He didn’t do that to me, you know? And I go out, and I’m so tired because there are two day’s trip away from my country. And I was, "Oh, my god! Maybe he’s missed his pills," and whatever, because—
AMY GOODMAN: These were pills for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
ELSA CRUZ: Yes, yeah. And then I went to the house of my friend, and I said—I cried and said, "What happened to Samuel?" But, you know, there’s something wrong with him. And then, two days, I never call him, because that—I said I let him calm down maybe, you know. But I’m worried. I call three, and he never—he never answered a call. And that Sunday, exactly, the pastor telling me that this is—you know, the sister also observed the same observation. I said, "Pastor, please give me a favor. I’m going to go to the—to our apartment. Can you go with me? And I want to see if he’s in the apartment." And the pastor go with me, and what had happened, we talk there and said—the pastor talk: "Samuel, how are you? I’m here, Pastor Daniel. I’m here, and your wife Elsa is here. How are you?" He answered, "I’m naked." And the pastor said, "OK, if you’re naked, you can—you can put on your clothes." And I also talking: "Samuel, I’m here. Could you please open the door?" He never answered me. And I have—
AMY GOODMAN: Was it at that—was it at that point that you called the police?
ELSA CRUZ: Not yet. And then, because they never responded us, the pastor said, "Elsa, I have my appointment." We waited so very long. I think it’s 25 hours, and he never responded. And the pastor said, "I’m going to go." I said, "Leave me here. You can go, Pastor," because I—you know, I negotiate, negotiated. And then, I cried there. We have three stairs in our apartment. I cried. I cried, "Please, open the door. I’m going to cook your favorite food, you know? I miss you, because I came from my vacation." And then, he never answer. Never. It’s silent. I was so scared.
So, what I did, I took my phone and go to another side of the building, inside that place, and I called 911. And there’s a woman answering me: "What is your problem?" I said, "Ma’am, I’m here in our apartment. There’s something wrong with my husband. He needs help. Can you please send us somebody to help me to assisting him to go to the hospital?" She said, "Your husband is harming anybody?" And, "No, ma’am, no. He’s a very nice person. He never harm anybody. Could you please send us somebody, or whatever?" And then, "OK."
I think 15 minutes, because I am watching somebody, because there’s a small window beside our apartment, when you go down in. I saw a man with uniform, a policeman. He’s waving his hand. And I go down there. It seems he’s one block away from our apartment downstair. We’re living on the second floor.
AMY GOODMAN: On the second floor.
ELSA CRUZ: And we go down. I put paper in the door, because, you know, I have no key. I cannot get in again. So I go there, and the policeman, "Come here." We went to the roadside. This is Church Street. There is four policemen waiting there. And these policemen are like they’re going to the war. They have a shield, all of their—
AMY GOODMAN: They’re wearing full shields.
ELSA CRUZ: Yes. And then they have guns. And it seems that they—they go to the war. And I’m so worried. But I ignore them. The first man that I focus my attention, he answer—he asking me, "What is the telephone number of your husband?" I give—I give the telephone number of in our apartment. And then he said, "What is the race of your husband?" I said, "He is a Puerto Rican. He is a good-looking man. He’s a good-looking man." He said—and the other policeman answered me, "How about me?" It seems that I’m comfortable with them, because, you know, my fear is gone and everything. So, this man is good, you know? I’m confident with them, because I think they can help me, when I called for help.
And then, there’s another person, said, "OK, you’re going to stay here. Don’t go to your apartment. You stay here." I don’t know—it’s far. You can see what—their movements outside, but inside you cannot see anything there. And I’m staying there and concerned. I’m only praying, saying, "Oh, Lord, please protect my husband." I don’t know what’s going on to this. There is another policeman downstairs, the first floor, and the other policeman is on the second floor. I don’t know what’s going on. I saw one policeman roaming in—outside our apartment. He’s looking for the door, the fire escape or whatever there. And the policeman there, the first floor, he’s waving his hand to me and said, "Come here." But before that, I transferred to another—another roadside. And I thank God, because he wants me to get inside our apartment. I know what is going about there upstairs. It’s very clear, you know, what’s going on. They’re talking, whatever. We have a neighbor, a black woman, there inside the first floor and the super, the person who took charge of the apartments. And they’re talking and talking and talking. So, in short, the person in charge, the super, give them the tool to open the door of our apartment.
AMY GOODMAN: Not a key, but tools.
ELSA CRUZ: No. And I asked the super, "Do you have a key for our apartment?" And he said, "No, your husband always changing"—
AMY GOODMAN: The locks.
ELSA CRUZ: —"his key and the locks and whatever." OK, so I am—I am confident that they can open it, but I don’t know what is in their mind, these policemen. My husband, I hear that, "Oh, they took my $10." The neighbor said, "OK, I can give you $10." The purpose of that is to negotiate or to talk, to calm down my husband. And they said, "No, nobody could come here." And me, also, I talked to that man who is guarding the stairs so that we cannot go there. I said, "Can I go to my husband? Can I talk to him?" "No, nobody can talk to him." The super hand in the tools to the man there, one of the policemen.
AMY GOODMAN: We have just a minute to go before break. They handed the tools—
ELSA CRUZ: To the policeman there upstairs.
AMY GOODMAN: And they broke open the door?
ELSA CRUZ: Well, this is the happening. I heard very clear when they open the door, before the first broke—you can hear the tool—it’s like—
AMY GOODMAN: Break, break open the door.
ELSA CRUZ: The voice of my husband said, "Don’t broke my door. This is against my will. I’m going to sue you this." A very calm voice, never shouting, never fighting or—you know, it’s a very calm voice. He said—but they are still continue, broke—there are three: broke, broke, broke, bang! I don’t heard any commotion, even the step on the floor, that they’re fighting or they said they put the machine there to—
AMY GOODMAN: Taser him.
ELSA CRUZ: —taser, or whatever. It’s very fast. And I shouted, "Do you harm my husband? Oh, my god! Do you harm my husband there?" I didn’t—even their voices, those policemen, I didn’t heard a voice. It seems everybody is silent. Even my husband is screaming or whatever, but in my mind, I said, maybe they shot with something, you know, in the arms, that they sleep or whatever. Only one shot. And then I saw the sister outside and run outside, and I cry. I said, "Oh, Samuel." I found Samuel, because he’s here in the apartment. She said, "Oh, what happened? I heard a shot, yeah." But our expectation that they shot only with a—I don’t know how—
AMY GOODMAN: With a taser—
MAYO BARTLETT: Tranquilizer.
AMY GOODMAN: —or tranquilizer.
ELSA CRUZ: With a taser or tranquilizer, to sleep. But, you know, being a wife, you can feel really the emotion, whatever. And then I waited and waited. Nobody talking there. It seems that nobody there. And then I shouted again, "Please bring my husband now in the hospital! Bring him now! Bring him now! Please! Please!" There are two person, because I know they are policemen—the woman wearing a uniform, the same uniform that those policemen that are wearing, and another man. They are walking like there’s nothing happened. It’s very—you know, it’s like a motion. If you’re in a hurry and a man dying, you’re going to run, because time is precious. They’re just walking in the street, nothing happen, with a small tool. I don’t know what kind of tool is that.
AMY GOODMAN: Mayo Bartlett, what was your—in your investigation in the timing of all of this—so, Samuel Cruz is shot. Was he killed on the spot?
MAYO BARTLETT: Well, we really don’t know, because we don’t have certainty. But we can tell you that, basically, immediately upon them getting there and trying to get into their house, things happened almost instantaneously. And the thing that’s striking in these cases is the fact that they are not—police are not called in response to a crime. There’s no rush. There’s no need to take such immediate action. And in this case in particular, Westchester County has a mobile crisis team that works, in particular, with the city of New Rochelle, so they had access to mental health professionals who they could have had at that location to speak to Mr. Cruz. Also, Mrs. Cruz could have spoken to her husband.
And I think that a lot of things—one thing that’s common in both cases is that quite often people don’t know why the police are there. They haven’t committed any crime. They are not the subject of a criminal investigation. And all they know is that the police are there breaking their door down. And they know that they didn’t call those officers.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to go to break, and then when we come back, we’re going to go down to Memphis to hear how—what the Memphis Model is, how the police there deal with the mentally ill. We’re talking with Elsa Cruz. She called police for her husband, Samuel Cruz. She was concerned he was not taking his medication, wanted him taken care of. In the end, as you heard this story, he was shot dead. Her attorney, Mayo Bartlett and Randolph McLaughlin. Also with this, Hawa Bah, who called police on behalf of her son, Mohamed Bah, who was a student here in New York. She was concerned when she came to visit him from Guinea that he was looking disheveled, that he wasn’t making sense. She called for an ambulance. The police came. He, too, was killed. This is Democracy Now! Back in a minute.
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HEADLINES:
Amnesty Report: U.S. Drone Killings in Pakistan May Amount to War Crimes
Two human rights groups have released major new reports on how U.S. drone strikes kill civilians in Yemen and Pakistan. Amnesty International focused on Pakistan, where it says some drone killings may amount to war crimes. The group reviewed 45 drone strikes that have occurred in North Warizistan since January 2012. It found at least 19 civilians were killed in just two of those strikes, despite claims by the Obama administration it is accurately targeting militants. In one case, a 68-year-old grandmother, Mamana Bibi, was killed in a strike that appeared to be aimed directly at her. She was picking okra while surrounded by her grandchildren when she was blasted to pieces. Her son and granddaughter described the attack.
Rafiq ur-Rehman: "The children were also with her. She was hit in the first attack, and her body parts were lying scattered."
Nabeela: "First it whistled. Then I heard a 'dhummm.' The first hit us, and the second, my cousin. There was an explosion. We were scared, and I ran home. It was dark in front of our house. They brought me to the doctor in the village who gave me first aid. I was not scared before, but now, when the drone is flying, I am scared of it."
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Amnesty: Pakistanis Fearful of the U.S. "the Way They are Fearful of the Taliban"
Amnesty International reports that in July 2012, 18 laborers, including a 14-year-old boy, were killed by multiple strikes as they were about to eat their evening meal. While official claims called the victims "terrorists," Amnesty found they were not involved in fighting. Amnesty also documented cases of "rescuer attacks" where those rushing to the aid of drone victims are targeted by a second strike. Amnesty’s Pakistan researcher, Mustafa Qadri, said drones have terrified the Pakistani people.
Mustafa Qadri: "At the end of the day, when we researched these cases, we found people were fearful of the U.S. the way they’re fearful of the Taliban. That really is a great tragedy. You know, what’s really important is that we don’t forget human rights when we’re trying to protect our societies. People have told us they’re taking sleeping tablets at night. They don’t know when they’re going to be targeted, if they’ll be targeted, why they’ll be targeted. That really is a shocking situation."
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HRW: U.S. Air Strikes in Yemen Kill Scores of Civilians in Violation of International Law
In a second report released today, Human Rights Watch reviewed six U.S. air strikes in Yemen that killed 82 people, at least 57 of them civilians. They include a drone-assisted attack that unlawfully struck a passenger van in 2012, killing 12 civilians; the target was nowhere near the vehicle. A farmer told Human Rights Watch the strike killed his father, mother and 10-year-old sister. "Their bodies were charred like coal — I could not recognize the faces," he said. Human Rights Watch also reviewed the 2009 U.S. cruise missile strike in the village of al-Majalah that killed more than 40 civilians, most of them women and children, and another attack last year that killed a cleric, who preached against al-Qaeda, as well as his cousin and a police officer. Human Rights Watch said strikes against civilians have violated international law and sparked a backlash that undermines the campaign against al-Qaeda. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch called on the Obama administration to reveal its full legal rationale for the strikes and investigate the killings detailed in their reports.
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White House Admits "Legitimate Questions" Raised by Reports of NSA Spying on Allies
President Obama spoke by phone Monday with French President François Hollande in a bid to alleviate tensions over a report that revealed massive spying by the National Security Agency in France. In a statement after the call, the White House said the pair had "discussed recent disclosures in the press — some of which have distorted our activities, and some of which raise legitimate questions for our friends and allies about how these capabilities are employed." Mexico, meanwhile, said it would send a diplomatic note to the United States demanding an investigation into spying on its officials following a report the NSA hacked the email account of then-President Felipe Calderón in 2010.
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Obama Defends Healthcare Law After Massive Online Failures
President Obama defended his signature healthcare law Monday following weeks of technical failures that have prevented many people from signing up. Obama declined to say how many people have actually been able to enroll through the online exchanges since they opened three weeks ago. But he admitted there have been technical roadblocks.
President Obama: "The problem has been that the website that’s supposed to make it easy to apply for and purchase the insurance is not working the way it should for everybody. There’s no sugarcoating it. The website has been too slow. People have been getting stuck during the application process. And I think it’s fair to say that nobody is more frustrated by that than I am, precisely because the product is good."
Obama urged people to call the government’s toll-free number to apply for health insurance, although he acknowledged wait times on the line may now increase.
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Assad Dampens Hopes for Peace Talks on Syria
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has dampened hopes for international talks on the Syrian crisis late next month in Geneva. In a prerecorded interview with a Lebanese TV station, Assad said no date has been chosen for the talks.
President Bashar al-Assad: "There is no date, and there is no factors that help in holding it now if we want it to succeed. Meaning, who are the parties participating in Geneva? What is the relation of these forces to the Syrian people? Are they forces representing the Syrian people or forces representing the countries that made it?"
Assad also said he sees no barriers to running for re-election next year. The interview aired on Monday, exactly two months after the chemical attack in Ghouta that raised the immediate prospect of U.S. air strikes before an international deal was reached to dismantle Syria’s chemical arsenal. Secretary of State John Kerry and other diplomats are meeting with Syrian opposition members today in London.
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Middle-School Student Opens Fire at School in Nevada
In Nevada, a student opened fire at Sparks Middle School Monday, killing a math teacher and wounding two fellow students. The unidentified shooter then killed himself. Police said the teacher, Michael Landsberry, was trying to protect students. The news came the same day Attorney General Eric Holder said the average number of mass shootings in the United States has tripled since 2009. Speaking to a conference of police chiefs, Holder said the United States saw an average of five "active shooter incidents" every year between 2000 and 2008, compared to at least 12 so far this year.
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2 Women Shot Dead at Senior Center in Detroit
In a lesser-reported shooting in Detroit, two women were killed at a senior home Sunday on the city’s southwest side. Police say the victims, Deborah Socia and Maria Gonzalez, were friends with another woman who had just ended a relationship with the alleged gunman.
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New Jersey Gov. Christie Drops Challenge to Same-Sex Marriage
In New Jersey, Republican Gov. Chris Christie has dropped the state’s legal challenge against same-sex marriage. His decision Monday morning came just hours after same-sex couples in New Jersey began marrying at midnight. On Friday, the state Supreme Court rejected Christie’s request to delay the weddings while he appealed. But on Monday, Christie dropped the appeal, saying he will enforce the law as determined by the court. New Jersey is the 14th state, along with Washington, D.C., to allow same-sex marriages.
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Firefighters in Australia Face More Than 60 Blazes
Firefighters in New South Wales, Australia, are battling the area’s worst bushfires in decades. The Sydney Morning Herald reports firefighters are facing an active fire edge that stretches more than 900 miles. They are also facing hot, windy conditions that have fueled more than 60 fires, which in some cases have consumed more than 20 miles in a single day. A spokesperson for the New South Wales Rural Fire Service said dry weather has worsened conditions.
Joel Kursawe: "We’re coming out of very dry winter. We haven’t had a lot of rain for many months. And we’re only in October. We’re not yet into summer. So we still have quite a few months before we reach the very hot months in summer. That’s what’s obviously very concerning for us, because we’re still only in spring and we’re seeing fires like this with so much destruction."
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15-Year Sentence for Qatari Poet Upheld
In Qatar, the top court has upheld a 15-year jail sentence for a poet convicted of incitement against the regime. Mohammed al-Ajami was arrested in November 2011 for allegedly disparaging members of Qatar’s ruling family in a poem. But activists say the real motivation was his poem "Tunisian Jasmine," in which he expressed support for the Arab Spring uprisings, writing, "We are all Tunisia in the face of repressive elites." Al-Ajami was initially dealt a life term, but that was reduced to 15 years in February. His lawyer said he has been held in solitary confinement for two years. Al-Ajami’s only recourse now is to appeal to the emir. Click here to see our interview from Qatar with Mohammed Al-Ajami’s lawyer.
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Transit Workers in California Reach Tentative Deal to End Strike
Transit workers in the California Bay Area say they have reached a tentative deal to end a four-day strike. A union proposal released Sunday would allow changes to some work rules but retain those protecting worker safety. The offer came a day after two workers were struck and killed by a BART train. On Monday, investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board said the operator was a trainee. Union officials had previously filed suit to stop BART from training managers to potentially operate trains during the strike, saying the practice was unsafe.
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Southwestern Energy Loses Bid to Block Anti-Fracking Protests in Canada
In a victory for fracking opponents in New Brunswick, Canada, a court has denied a request by Southwestern Energy for a permanent injunction to prevent protests against its bid to explore for gas. Area residents, including many with the Mi’kmaq First Nation, had blocked a road for more than two weeks to disrupt the company’s efforts. They say fracking, which involves blasting chemicals deep into rock, would pollute their water. The company claimed the blockade cost them $60,000 per day. Last week, more than 100 police descended on the encampment near the village of Rexton, sparking clashes that resulted in at least 40 arrests and the torching of five police vehicles. Monday’s court ruling allows protests to continue. Meanwhile, on Saturday anti-fracking actions took place in hundreds of cities across more than 25 countries as part of the second "Global Frackdown."
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NAACP Names Former House Clerk Lorraine Miller as Interim President
Lorraine Miller, who served as the first African-American officer of the House of Representatives, has been named interim president and CEO of the NAACP, replacing Ben Jealous. Miller became House clerk in 2007 after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tapped her for the post. Miller was a top adviser to Pelosi and has also worked for other top Democrats, including Rep. John Lewis.
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