On Saturday, thousands marched in Staten Island, New York, to protest the death of Eric Garner, who died on July 17 after police placed him in a chokehold and then pinned him to the ground. At the march, demonstrators chanted "I can’t breathe!" referring to the 11 times Eric Garner said that as he was held down by New York City Police Department officers. Many have called for the officers in the case to be brought to justice. The death of the 43-year-old African-American father of six has sparked a larger national debate about the NYPD’s use of excessive force and its policy of cracking down on low-level offenses. It also comes as demonstrations have erupted nationwide over other police killings of unarmed men. The protesters in Staten Island chanted "Hands up, don’t shoot!" in solidarity with the people of Ferguson, Missouri, who are protesting the fatal police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown. "We need to show the community that these police officers need to be disciplined and they need to be sentenced, for all that they caused," says 12-year-old Imani Morrias. "They caused so much pain."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: On Saturday, thousands marched in Staten Island, New York, to protest the death of Eric Garner, who died on July 17th after being placed in a police chokehold, as he was repeatedly saying, "I can’t breathe." The death of the 43-year-old African-American father of six has sparked a larger national debate about the New York Police Department’s use of excessive force and the illegal police chokehold. Many called for the officers involved in the case to be brought to justice. Democracy Now! was in Staten Island on the scene.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re heading to the beginning of the march, which will take place where Eric Garner was killed in an illegal police chokehold. But as we walk the streets of Staten Island, you can see that most of the stores are closed up, though this would be a busy Saturday afternoon. We’re going to that corner.
ERICA SNIPES GARNER: I’m Erica Snipes Garner. I’m the daughter of Eric Garner.
AMY GOODMAN: How old are you?
ERICA SNIPES GARNER: I’m 24. My dad was a loving man, he was a humble man, and he was a nice man. Like, he was very nice. I mean, you could never get a "no" out of him. Like, he did whatever he could for anybody who came around him. Anybody who came around him was, you know, touched by his graces. Seeing the videotape, I was very traumatized. I was very, like, horrified. It was horrible. Just seeing my father die on national TV was just horrible. You know, I’ve got to live with this forever.
AMY GOODMAN: What does it mean to see so many people, more than a thousand people, out today?
ERICA SNIPES GARNER: My father’s voice is being heard, and, you know, we’re standing as one. Everybody’s coming together for the right cause.
AMY GOODMAN: This is the site where Eric Garner died in an illegal police chokehold. There is a makeshift memorial here with candles and posters, right at the Bay Beauty Supply Shop here in Staten Island. Some of the posters say, "Bust Pantaleo now," one of the police officers involved with his killing, "Justice for Eric Garner." And just a few feet from here, we can see Ramsey Orta and his wife, Chrissie Ortiz. Ramsey held up his cellphone and filmed what happened to Eric Garner right here. They don’t want to talk today. But after the coroner’s office declared it a homicide, Ramsey Orta was arrested, and then, so was his wife, Chrissie. There are more than a thousand people here—haven’t begun to count—awaiting the march and the rally to honor Eric Garner and make the connections between Eric Garner’s death here in Staten Island at the hands of police and Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.
PROTESTERS: Hands up! Don’t shoot! Hands up! Don’t shoot!
AMY GOODMAN: "Hands up! Don’t shoot!" That chant that’s repeated in almost every protest in Ferguson has become a mantra here in Staten Island, as well. Thousands make their way from ground zero on Bay Street, where Eric Garner died after police officer Daniel Pantaleo put him in an illegal chokehold. People also chanted and held signs that said, "I can’t breathe," referring to the 11 times Eric Garner says this as he lay on the ground under the officers. And there were other signs in the crowd.
And what’s your name?
IMANI MORRIAS: Imani Morrias.
AMY GOODMAN: How old are you?
IMANI MORRIAS: Twelve.
AMY GOODMAN: What does your sign say?
IMANI MORRIAS: It says, "No justice, no peace. Rest in peace, Eric Garner, Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, Sean Bell, all the fallen soldiers."
AMY GOODMAN: Did you make that yourself?
IMANI MORRIAS: Well, I had some help from my sister. So, we need to show the community that these police officers need to be disciplined, and there needs to be a sentence for all that they caused to Mike Brown’s family and Trayvon Martin’s family and Eric Garner’s family. They’ve caused so much pain.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: My name isn’t important. I’m hurting. That’s why I’m out here. I was marching 50 years ago, and I’m still marching for the same thing. And it hurts. It hurts.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you think we’ve made any progress?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: Not enough. Not enough. Not when you see things like this, when you hear things like this—Ferguson and Staten Island. No. It just makes your heart bleed. It really does. It really does.
MICHAEL "OG LAW" TABON: My name is Michael "OG Law" Tabon. I’m pulling a 20—excuse me, a 34-foot cape that says, "Police of America, fight hate with love. Evil plus evil never equals good." And it’s the longest petition cape in the world. Shout out to Guinness. It’s the love team.
JASMINE DE SILVA: Jasmine De Silva. I live right around the corner from here, so I actually knew Eric Garner. My family knew him very well.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you do here in Staten Island?
JASMINE DE SILVA: Well, I just live in Staten Island. I go to school at John Jay Community College in the city, and I work in Brooklyn Heights.
AMY GOODMAN: You go to school at John Jay College of Criminal Justice?
JASMINE DE SILVA: Yes, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: So what do you learn there in relation to what you’re protesting about today?
JASMINE DE SILVA: We learn a lot, especially about NYPD. They have policing classes, so they do teach us about the background and how it started and how it is today and the best ways to try to change it.
AMY GOODMAN: Have you discussed the Eric Garner case at John Jay?
JASMINE DE SILVA: Well, school hasn’t started yet for the semester, so I’m pretty sure that will be a very big topic once school starts.
AMALA LANE: My name is Amala Lane, and I’m a member of Morningside Meeting, which meets in Riverside Church. And Quakers have a long history of nonviolent civil resistance, civil disobedience, and we stand for the protection of civil rights.
AMY GOODMAN: What’s your name?
ANIYA: Aniya.
AMY GOODMAN: How old are you?
ANIYA: Thirteen.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you hope to accomplish with this protest?
ANIYA: To live until I’m 18 and not get shot. You want to get older. You want to experience life. You don’t want to die in a matter of seconds because of cops.
AMY GOODMAN: Live to 18 and not get shot—the simple wish of a 13-year-old girl. She’s one of thousands of protesters who were marching against the police killing of Eric Garner. They walk past the Staten Island District Attorney’s Office, and the rally begins. The Reverend Al Sharpton introduces Eric Garner’s widow.
REV. AL SHARPTON: I want Esaw and the mother. This is the widow and mother of Eric Garner.
ESAW GARNER: I don’t even know what to say. I don’t even know what to say. Like, thank you so much for your support, from me, my mother-in-law, my children, my grandchildren. We miss him so much. I don’t even know what else to say. I just want to thank everybody for taking the time out to come out and support me and get justice for my husband.
EMCEE: We have a retired police officer who’s here in support of what we’re doing, and at this time I want to bring Carlton Berkley to the stage.
CARLTON BERKLEY: But we say to the good cops, when you stand by and let them bad cops do and tarnish the NYPD, you’re just as bad as the rest of them, and all of you should be held accountable! And one other thing I want to say. And one other thing I want to say. The reason why we want all of the cops in Eric Garner’s case to be held accountable and arrested is because when our kids are outside, and there’s a group of them, and one decides to do something, they always grab the other four and charge them with acting in concert. So in Eric Garner’s case, when those cops stood by, and he said 11 times, "I can’t breathe," and they did nothing, they’re held accountable, too! And we want them arrested!
CONSTANCE MALCOLM: Hello, everyone. My name is Constance Malcolm. I’m the mother of Ramarley Graham. The Staten Island DA should not be prosecuting this case. We don’t want the same mishap that happened in the Bronx when they dropped the ball in Ramarley’s case. We can’t have that to happen. We need the feds to come in and take this case right now. We need accountability. We need some—we need these officers to pay the price for what they did to her son.
EMCEE: Our next speaker is the U.S. congressman from Brooklyn, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES: As a congressman, if I wasn’t on the floor of the House of Representatives, if I wasn’t in my office in Capitol Hill, if I wasn’t in a suit and tie, and I ran into the wrong police officer, simply because I’m a young black man in America, he might think that I’m a lawbreaker, but it turns out I’m a lawmaker. And about 10 days ago, six members of the United States Congress from New York—Charles Rangel, José Serrano, Nydia Velásquez, Greg Meeks, Yvette Clarke and myself—wrote a letter to Eric Holder, urging that the Department of Justice get involved and investigate the case of Eric Garner and the NYPD, because of their broken windows policing strategy.
REV. AL SHARPTON: The mother of Amadou Diallo, Madame Kadiatou Diallo.
KADIATOU DIALLO: We have to stop this. Too much, too much pain, too much struggle, too much tears, too many tears. Too many victims—Sean Bell, Ramarley Graham, Mohamed Bah and many other victims—have fell victim on the police force who’s supposed to serve and protect. We need a national conversation that will continue to go on.
REV. AL SHARPTON: The one and only former governor of the state of New York, David Paterson.
DAVID PATERSON: This is the 25th anniversary of the unfortunate murder of Yusuf Hawkins. This is also the 50th anniversary of a terrible crime committed by a policeman when he shot a 15-year-old boy named James Powell in Harlem. It started the Harlem riots. I want you to know that there was a case 72 years ago, in the summer of 1942. The summer of 1942 is when my father was pistol-whipped in front of all his neighbors at age 16 by a police officer for no reason at all. And he went on to become Basil Paterson, who was the first African-American secretary of state and deputy mayor of New York.
REV. AL SHARPTON: May I bring on the president of the United Federation of Teachers, Michael Mulgrew.
MICHAEL MULGREW: It is time to teach. I want you all to say it. It is time to teach.
CROWD: It is time to teach.
MICHAEL MULGREW: It is time to for us to follow the wishes of this great family and say we want this death to come to something good for all of us and all of our communities. It is time to teach. So, are we committed here to teach the country?
CROWD: Yes!
MICHAEL MULGREW: Are we committed here to teach our city?
CROWD: Yes!
MICHAEL MULGREW: And are we committed always to teach our children that it can always get better?
CROWD: Yes!
MICHAEL MULGREW: We stand with you, because we all understand we can always make things better. Thank you all very much.
AMY GOODMAN: That last speaker, Michael Mulgrew, president of the United Federation of Teachers. The UFT and SEIU both supported the protest and came under fire from the New York police unions for agreeing to participate in the rally. When we come back, Talib Kweli in Ferguson. Stay with us.
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Militants from Islamic State stormed an air base in northeast Syria on Sunday, capturing it from government forces. Fighters from Islamic State have seized three Syrian military bases in the area in recent weeks. This comes as the Pentagon considers expanding its airstrikes against Islamic State in Iraq to include targets inside Syria. Meanwhile, another journalist who had been kidnapped in Syria, Peter Theo Curtis, has been freed after two years in captivity by the Nusra Front — another militant group in Syria. Calls have been growing for the United States to attack Syria since Islamic State posted video showing the kidnapped American journalist James Foley being beheaded. Foley was captured in Syria in 2012. Meanwhile in Iraq, officials say suicide bomber targeted a Shiite mosque in Baghdad today, killing at least 12 people. We speak to Vijay Prashad, professor of international studies at Trinity College. He is the author of several books, including "Arab Spring, Libyan Winter" and, most recently, "The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Militants from the Islamic State stormed an air base in northeast Syria Sunday, capturing it from government forces. According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, at least 346 Islamic State fighters and more than 170 members of government forces have died since Tuesday in the fight over the Tabqa base. Fighters from the Islamic State have seized three Syrian military bases in the area in recent weeks.
This comes as the Pentagon considers expanding its airstrikes against the Islamic State in Iraq to include targets inside Syria. On Thursday, General Martin Dempsey, the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, hinted at possible intervention against the Islamic State in Syria.
GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY: This is an organization that has an apocalyptic, end-of-days strategic vision and which will eventually have to be defeated. To your question, can they be defeated without addressing that part of their organization which resides in Syria, the answer is no. That will have to be addressed on both sides of what is essentially at this point a non-existent border. And that will come when we have a coalition in the region that takes on the task of defeating ISIS over time.
AMY GOODMAN: Dempsey spoke two days after the Islamic State posted video showing the kidnapped American journalist James Foley being beheaded. Foley was captured in Syria in 2012. Meanwhile, another journalist who had been kidnapped in Syria, Peter Theo Curtis, has been freed after two years in captivity by the Nusra Front, another militant group in Syria.
During an interview Sunday, General Dempsey told reporters once he determines the Islamic State militants in Iraq have become a direct threat to the U.S. homeland, he’ll recommend the U.S. military move directly against the group in Syria. On Friday, Ben Rhodes, President Obama’s deputy national security adviser, also raised the possibility of U.S. strikes inside Syria.
BEN RHODES: We will do what’s necessary to protect Americans and see that justice is done for what we saw with the barbaric killing of Jim Foley. So, we’re actively considering what’s going to be necessary to deal with that threat, and we’re not going to be restricted by borders. We’ve shown time and again that if there’s a counterterrorism threat, we’ll take direct action against that threat, if necessary.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile in Iraq, officials say a suicide bomber targeted a Shiite mosque in Baghdad today, killing at least 12 people. This comes three days after at least 68 Sunni worshipers were [killed when] suspected members of a Shia militia attacked a mosque in Diyala province. Officials say a suicide bomber blew himself up in the mosque during Friday prayers, and gunmen fired on fleeing worshipers. To protest the killings, two prominent Sunni politicians, Iraq’s parliamentary speaker and deputy prime minister, pulled out of talks to form a new—a more inclusive government.
To talk more about the crisis in Iraq and Syria and the Middle East overall, we’re joined by Vijay Prashad, professor of international studies at Trinity College, author of several books, including Arab Spring, Libyan Winter and, most recently, The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South. Vijay Prashad is also a columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline, where he’s been writing extensively about the Islamic State. He was last in Syria three months ago.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Vijay. Talk about what is happening right now in Syria—President Obama is back from his vacation—the discussion of striking inside Syria.
VIJAY PRASHAD: It’s interesting that the United States is thinking of striking inside Syria at this point. The question is, to what end? I mean, now, the Islamic State has taken a major airport outside Raqqa. It’s a military airport. You know, they have now MiGs in their possession. They have so-called MANPADS, surface-to-air missiles. But that’s really not what they’re after. What they’re going to make a move for is to go towards the airport of Hama and the town of Hama, which will cut off Syrian government control over the entire western flank of Syria. So they have a very interesting territorial ambition, to create a big zone, a crescent, as it were, from Tripoli in Lebanon all the way out to northern Iraq. That’s their game plan.
It’s very unlikely that U.S. airstrikes will be able to stop their march forward. It will halt them. It will make them change direction. For instance, the United States struck recently to protect U.S. ally, you know, the Iraqi Kurds. They struck right outside Erbil, hit the 198 howitzers that the Islamic State had taken from the military base in Mosul. So, when they did that, the Islamic State turned around and went back towards Raqqa. In other words, they are playing a kind of territorial land battle. They are not going to be stopped fundamentally by airstrikes. One tactical mission can be halted, then they will redirect. That’s the way they’ve been playing at it. If you’re going to defeat the Islamic State, it is going to have to come on the ground. It’s going to have to come through Kurdish forces, through Iraqi forces, through Syrian forces. And currently, that is not something people are talking about. There is a belief in the great silver bullet of American aerial strikes. And I’m afraid, you know, that’s very pleasant to hear, because it sounds like the Americans are doing something, but it’s not really strategically useful in the long run.
AMY GOODMAN: Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona appeared on Fox News and criticized President Obama for not responding to ISIS more forcefully.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: He said we have to contain ISIS. We don’t have to contain ISIS; we have to defeat ISIS, and we have to do whatever is necessary. And ISIS is in Syria, and they have obliterated the boundary between Iraq and Syria. And we have to go in. And it’s more than pinprick airstrikes. And we’re going to need more boots on the ground. And that does not mean combat troops, but it does mean significant increase. And rather the incrementalism that we are—that they are now practicing, we need a comprehensive strategy that can be explained to the American people, which is designed to defeat ISIS wherever they are.
AMY GOODMAN: Your response to that, Professor Prashad?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, it’s interesting that he talked about boots on the ground. Yes, I agree: You need boots on the ground. The question is, who is going to wear those boots? John McCain assumes it’s going to be American troops. American troops have already tried to defeat, you know, the ancestor of the Islamic State, which was al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia. There’s a very dangerous game going on here, both from Hillary Clinton, from the Republicans, from Tony Blair. They want to make the case that the Islamic State is a child of the Syrian war. They want to deny the fact that the Islamic State has its roots fundamentally in the destruction of the Iraqi state by the American invasion in 2003. You know, it’s very easy to destroy a state. It took the Iraqi people over a hundred years to build institutions; that was destroyed by the Americans in an afternoon. Once you destroy the state, you create a vacuum. For the first time on Iraqi soil, one saw al-Qaeda groups come in, and that was in 2004, when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was a Jordanian militant, comes into Tal Afar and creates al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia. You know, even bin Laden found him to be a bit unpalatable, because he was deeply sectarian and extraordinarily violent. The Americans tried to crush al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia, but by 2006, despite the big surge, despite the bombing of Fallujah, Ramadi—you know, names that the American public now are quite familiar with—despite the razing of these cities, the Islamic State was born in 2006. It’s not yesterday’s creation. This was a product of the Iraq War.
So, the Americans have tried to defeat them in Ramadi, in Fallujah, you know, in so-called Anbar province, the whole province, and have been defeated in 2007, 2008. You cannot fight them with American troops on the ground, because that will simply unite once again people who are not, you know, behind ISIS, but would oppose American troops. They have to be fought by the Iraqis, by the Syrians and by the Kurds. The problem, of course, is that because of U.S. policy over Syria, you know, the United States has a very peculiar and complicated relationship with the powers on the ground. The most powerful fighting force against the Islamic State over the last two years have been the Kurdish militias, but since the United States believes that the Kurdish militias are a terrorist organization—you know, partly because Turkey is a NATO ally, and Turkey considers—
AMY GOODMAN: PKK.
VIJAY PRASHAD: The PKK, the Kurdish Workers’ Party—a terrorist organization. But on the other hand, they have been the most fierce fighters against the Islamic State. So the United States is trapped by its Syria policy, by the Turkey policy and by the inability to help reconstruct an Iraqi state.
AMY GOODMAN: Will it be working with Bashar al-Assad, who also of course sees these militants as his enemy? Will the U.S.?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, it’s very interesting. A few hours ago, when the air base in Raqqa was seized, the foreign minister of Syria made an outreach to the Europeans and the Americans, saying that we need to collaborate to deal with this serious threat. And I think that’s very interesting. I mean, it is the case that these are the boots on the ground that can tackle the Islamic State. Major U.S. allies, for instance, Jordan, are under serious threat of the collapse of the monarchy. If the Islamic State, which has really consolidated its base in southern Syria, as well—if they decide to move south into Jordan, Jordan is in an extremely delicate situation.
AMY GOODMAN: The freelance journalist Peter Theo Curtis, who wrote under the byline Theo Padnos, was just released, in a surprise, apparently negotiated by Qatar with al-Nusra. What is al-Nusra trying to accomplish with this? To show that they are different from Islamic State?
VIJAY PRASHAD: It’s a very interesting game that has been played over the last year. It’s important to recognize that in January of 2012, the Nusra Front was created by the Islamic State of Iraq. In fact, you know, Jabhat al-Nusra means "the support front." It was the support front from Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the Islamic State for the Syrian rebellion. Over the course of 2012, 2013, some tension broke out between ISIS and the Jabhat al-Nusra. In fact, al-Qaeda leadership intervened to say, "Jabhat al-Nusra is the authentic al-Qaeda of Syria, and the Islamic State of Iraq is the al-Qaeda in Iraq. So, guys, keep to your borders." That was essentially what—the statement came from al-Qaeda headquarters.
Nusra has been trying to differentiate itself, except, Amy, the issue is, on the ground, Nusra fighters and ISIS fighters have been fighting together. So, it could be that Nusra and their emir, Mr. Jawlani, tried to differentiate themselves from ISIS. On the other hand, it could also be that the Gulf Arab states are feeling a lot of pressure to break their relationship with these groups, and they persuaded Jabhat al-Nusra, "Release an American, because what happened to Jim Foley was so disgusting and barbaric that it’s going to make it very hard for us to continue providing diplomatic support." I mean, until a few weeks ago, a major figure in Saudi Arabia, a former foreign minister, made a statement that the only problem in the region is not the Islamic State. And what he was doing was he was pointing a finger, of course, at Iran, because they’re afraid that if the Islamic State comes to dominate the politics of greater Arabia, their principal contradiction, which is Iran, is going to be forgotten. So, I have a feeling that the release of Theo Curtis—it’s a great thing that happened—may have been a bargaining chip by the Gulf Arab states, much more than by Nusra itself.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s talk about Saudi Arabia and its role in both Iraq and Syria.
VIJAY PRASHAD: I mean, Saudi Arabia is a complicated place. You know, people very loosely say "Saudi support" or "Qatar support," etc. What we forget is, the governments don’t often support these groups. You know, they are fairly canny. They know that the last thing they want to do is to have their hands in the back pocket of a group like the Islamic State or Jabhat al-Nusra. What you more typically have is you have sheikhs who independently, privately donate small percentages of their vast holdings to various militant groups. So, you know, for them, it’s easy. If I’m worth several hundred million dollars, and I give half-a-million dollars to a group based in northern Iraq, and I send them off with guns, etc., half-a-million dollars in northern Iraq, half-a-million dollars in Mali, half-a-million dollars in Waziristan, that is an enormous amount of money. A lot of money has been coming from private donations. It gives the Gulf Arab states a great deal of deniability. So when Americans say, "You have to stop supporting these groups," they say, "Well, we don’t support them."
The other side of it, of course, is not just support with money. You know, there has been a crackdown by the Saudis over the last six to eight months against the Muslim Brotherhood, you know, which generally is supported by Qatar, and which is why, for instance, the Saudis helped finance the overthrow of the Morsi government in Egypt and brought in Mr. Sisi, who immediately made trips to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia pledged vast amounts of money to Egypt. The same kind of dilemma has now broken apart inside Libya, where there’s pressure to minimize the Brotherhood’s role. That also contributed to the inflammation in Libya. Similar things have happened in Iraq and in Syria, where this tension is significant between Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
But yet, it hasn’t stopped the chaos in northern Syria and in Iraq, because it’s not just money, it’s also people. One reason that the Islamic State has been making a very concerted push to take back the Azaz crossing in—up north of Aleppo is because that has been the channel through which foreign fighters have been coming in. And because they’ve controlled much of the border with Turkey, they’ve been able to get the first dibs, as it were, of foreign fighters. So foreign fighters have been coming in, from the planeload, from Libya, very large numbers of people coming into the Islamic State. So, there are all kinds of numbers. Nobody knows whether to take them seriously. But, you know, people say there are 10,000 people in the Islamic State in their fighting brigades. Some people have higher numbers than that. Whatever the numbers might be, there are certainly thousands of foreign fighters, and often these are the most dedicated, most ruthless fighters.
AMY GOODMAN: Britain says they’re about to—and who knows if this is true—identify the man who’s standing over James Foley in the black hood, who beheaded him, that he is most likely British.
VIJAY PRASHAD: I mean, he is likely British, if we accept that the accent is his accent and not that it was overdubbed. They say it might be a rapper, in fact. You know, a photograph was released; it apparently is a British Muslim rapper. You know, these are people deeply disgruntled with whatever’s happened in the West. For whatever reason, they come in. And it is the case that the Chechnyan fighters, many of the European fighters are some of the most brave and dangerous fighters. I mean, the people who fight them from Hezbollah have been saying that they can fight anybody with ease, but when they come up against the Islamic State fighters, those guys are really ruthless. You know, just to give you a sense of the battlefield, both the Syrian army and the Free Syrian Army are trained in an old technique of fighting a battle: You set up an artillery brigade, and you fire into a city; when it’s quiet, you enter. That’s how the Americans fight; they do it from the air. That’s how the Israelis fight; they do it from the air. They demolish a city from the air, then they send a few ground troops in. No, these people drive in directly without any aerial bombardment. They are ruthless fighters. And they cannot be defeated, therefore, by conventional means. Unconventional fighting is necessary. That’s what the Syrian government had turned to when they drew in militias from Iraq and Hezbollah. They could not tackle the Islamic State or Jabhat al-Nusra themselves.
AMY GOODMAN: President Obama said that the U.S. was going to save the Yazidis and stop a genocide. Then they said that they were saved, and people asked, "Would the troops be out?" They said, no, they were going to add many more troops. Can you talk about what happened with the Yazidis and why the U.S. is in Iraq?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Of course, the Yazidi situation was a deeply troubling situation. You know, Iraq, as I said, had not the fertile soil for al-Qaeda. It was an extremely and is an extremely diverse society. You know, there are ancient names, like Chaldeans, Yazidis. You know, you think these are biblical people; how are they still alive? Large communities exist in northern Syria, in small valleys, ancient towns. So, it’s a deeply beautiful, diverse society. When the Islamic State moved in, it is certainly the case that they sent the Yazidis into a refuge. This is not the first time the Yazidis have fled persecution. They fled persecution in the 1930s, in the 1980s, because Saddam went after them. He wanted to bring them down from the mountains, settle them in the valley, because in mountains people are dangerous. That was his view. So they’ve experienced persecution before. This is not the first time.
It’s very interesting that President Obama so paternalistically said, you know, "America is going to help. Help is on the way." Meanwhile, on the ground, you know, what I’ve been trying to suggest already, the Kurdish fighters, from what they call Rojava, which is the farther eastern provinces of Syria, of northeastern Syria, these Kurdish fighters of the YPG and the PKK had fought along the ground and opened a land corridor to Sinjar Mountain, where from Jebel Sinjar they rescued tens of thousands of people through a very difficult situation. It’s interesting, when the first USAID helicopters landed at Mount Sinjar, to welcome them were the PKK fighters. And it was something that the State Department couldn’t directly say in their briefing because, as we said a second ago, the PKK is a notified terrorist organization. So when President Obama says, you know, help is on the way, well, help was on the way, it just wasn’t the Americans. Now, did the American bombing help the Yazidis? Not exactly, because the bombing was of the artillery battalions, which had been stationed near Erbil. And so, it certainly stopped or halted the march of the Islamic State into Erbil, but it wasn’t entirely germane to the Yazidi situation.
AMY GOODMAN: We only have a minute to go. One, the role of oil? And, two, what’s happening in Libya right now?
VIJAY PRASHAD: The role of oil is not that significant in this part of the world, because the oil fields, the Omar oil fields, other oil fields in eastern Syria are very useful for—
AMY GOODMAN: I meant in Kurdistan area in Iraq.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Ah, in Kurdistan, OK. But, by the way, the Islamic State controls oil fields in Syria, and it sells that oil to everybody, including the Syrian government, you know, because they require oil. So these people are also hustlers. They are not all die-hard militants.
Of course the question of oil in Kurdistan is significant. I mean, one of the problems is that the Baghdad government had failed to pay properly the salaries of the Peshmerga. So, over the course of the last year, the fighting force of the Iraqi Kurds, the Peshmerga, had very low morale. For two, three months, they hadn’t been paid. So, Kurdistan has been providing revenues through oil sales to Baghdad, and Baghdad hasn’t been coming back and paying the salaries. So there’s a real push in Kurdistan to declare some kind of further autonomy or even independence. This is a very dangerous and, I think, at the other side, interesting development.
AMY GOODMAN: Thirty seconds on Libya.
VIJAY PRASHAD: What to say about Libya? I mean, again, you know, it’s the slogan that I’ve been trying to promote, which is, you can build a state—it takes you a hundred years; you destroy it in an afternoon. You know, when the Libyan state was destroyed so thoroughly, it opened the doors for all kinds of people. And right now, the fighting is so bad that the airports are all closed. The government is thinking of hiring a cruise ship to hold their Parliament offshore.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to continue the discussion of Libya after the show, and we will post it online at democracynow.org. Vijay Prashad, professor of international studies at Trinity College, author of a number of books. His latest book is The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we go to the streets of Staten Island, New York, and to Ferguson, Missouri. Stay with us.
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Mourners are gathering in St. Louis today for the funeral of Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teenager killed by a white police officer on August 9. His father, Michael Brown Sr., has requested a day of silence and peace after two weeks of nightly protests in Ferguson over the police killing of his 18-year-old son. We turn now to two well-known voices from the hip-hop community who have joined the protests in Ferguson. Talib Kweli is a world renowned hip-hop artist. Rosa Clemente is a longtime activist and former director of the Hip Hop Caucus. In 2008, she was the Green Party’s vice-presidential nominee. "The fact that he’s someone who could be my son, fact that he’s someone who could be me," Kweli said, "fact that he’s someone who I relate to on a lot of levels, being a black man and my experience in America, it just really touched me in a way that the news stories couldn’t capture."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Mourners are gathering in St. Louis today for the funeral of Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teenager killed by a white police officer in Ferguson August 9th. His father, Michael Brown Sr., has requested a day of silence and peace after two weeks of nightly protests in Ferguson over the police killing of his 18-year-old son.
We turn now to two well-known voices from the hip-hop community who have joined the protests in Ferguson. Talib Kweli is a world-renowned hip-hop artist; Rosa Clemente, longtime activist, former director of the Hip Hop Caucus. In 2008, she was the Green Party’s vice-presidential nominee. Democracy Now!’s Aaron Maté caught up with Talib Kweli and Rosa Clemente in Ferguson last week at the Greater St. Mark Family Church. They spoke in a packed gym, where hundreds had gathered to prepare for another night of protests in the Ferguson streets.
AARON MATÉ: This is Democracy Now! I’m Aaron Maté, with Hany Massoud. We’re in the St. Mark’s Church with Talib Kweli and Rosa Clemente.
Talib, Rosa, welcome to Democracy Now! Talib Kweli, talk to us about why you’ve come to Ferguson.
TALIB KWELI: I’m in Ferguson because I respect life. I try to be a compassionate person. I respect people’s basic right to just exist. And even if there’s some sort of discrepancy or misunderstanding regarding the law, I respect people’s rights to due process. And this young man, Michael Brown, had all that stripped from him in an instant. And the fact that he is someone who could be my son, fact that he’s someone who could be me, fact that he’s someone who I relate to on a lot of levels, being a black man and my experience in America, it just really touched me in a way that the news stories couldn’t capture.
I saw a lot of celebrities, who could be using their voice to really help people to understand the justifiable rage going on here, really become critical of some of the other aspects of the "looters" or critical of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. But these are people who never speak out on behalf of the people. And it’s like, "You use your platform to speak out to criticize the people?" It made me want to show up myself so I could shine a light on the real protest movement that’s going on here.
A lot of people think that because they choose to ignore protests on a daily basis, they choose to ignore injustice on a daily basis, that the whole world is acting like that. And so they ask questions like, "Well, why is there no protest when a black man shoots a black man?" or "What about black-on-black crime?" And they ask these silly, irrelevant questions that distract and deflect away from these things that happened to John Crawford and Eric Garner and Renisha McBride and Mike Brown. You know, so it’s like such a ill pattern that I felt like I had to go past, beyond—go past the retweets at this point.
AARON MATÉ: Talib, this protest in Ferguson is getting so much world attention, but what can specifically we learn as a country from what’s happening here in Ferguson?
TALIB KWELI: We can learn that we shouldn’t give up our rights so quickly. You know, the fear that so-called terrorism has instilled in the country, the fear has been used to convince us to voluntarily give away our rights. You know, we’ve been talking for a long time about the—in the abstract, about the militarization of police force and the byproduct of it and the ramifications of it and what it means for the rights of citizens. And in Ferguson, it’s the first time they really get to flex that muscle in a real way.
You know, it’s striking to me how you have like an armed response from the people like at the Bundy ranch, where they were actually like, you know, talking about they’re going to use women as shields and put women in the front, because they know if women get shot, you know, those will be images that they want to put out to the world. Or they’re pointing guns at the feds, and the feds are like, "You know, we cool. Y’all got that one." Here, you know, you have somebody who throws a water bottle, or you have somebody who is yelling at the cops because they’re rightfully agitated, and that becomes a license to brutalize and terrorize an entire community of people.
AARON MATÉ: Talib, you came from New York. There’s a big protest this weekend over the death of Eric Garner, killed by a police chokehold. Can you connect what’s happening in your hometown to what’s happening here in Ferguson?
TALIB KWELI: Yeah, well, you know, New York has a long, storied history with the police brutality, just like any community of color. And, you know, but it’s not just New York. That connection of all these people who are murdered, unarmed, by the police is what makes the rage justifiable. How do people dare to fix their mouths to criticize protesters, to be like, "Oh, well, they shouldn’t be looting"? With all due respect, you know, shut up with that. Like, what are you talking about? Like, the issue is the violation of our rights that happen when people loot pales in comparison to the violation of rights. Why are you outraged about the reaction to this? Like, it’s the fact that these things are connected. It’s the fact that this connects back to Trayvon Martin, connects all the way back to things in New York like Amadou Diallo and Patrick Dorismond, connects back to Tawana Brawley and Michael Stewart, connects back to the New York 21—the fact that these things are all connected. If you don’t acknowledge the connection, that’s what allows people to say that the rage is not justified, when they’re able to look at things as if they exist in a vacuum and as if they’re isolated incidents that are not connected. These are patterns that show that—you know, like Mos said on our first album, "The length of black life is treated with short worth."
AARON MATÉ: And, Talib, you mentioned before the limitations of Twitter, of social media. Can you talk more about that?
TALIB KWELI: I got a lot of flak from younger people, the new generation, who really—they wrap themselves up in their social media like a warm blanket. You know, it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside to support causes on Twitter. And I understand that. I relate to that, because I feel the same way. When I’m at my home or I’m in some hotel room or I’m enjoying my privileged life, and I’m able to just support a cause with a tweet, that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. I feel really good, able to do that. So I get what feels good about Twitter. I get that I wouldn’t have the information I have without Twitter. Look, I’m on Twitter all the time. I love Twitter. I’m like the Twitter king. I love it. You know what I’m saying?
However, I remember a world before the Internet. And I remember what it really takes to have movement on the ground. Someone tweeted me back and said, "Well, you know, back in the day they didn’t have Twitter, but they had letters, and they wrote letters to each other, so..." I said, "Yeah, but ain’t nobody saying that the letters started the revolution." It’s not—people not saying the letters; they’re saying it was Malcolm being there. They’re saying it was Stokely Carmichael being there. When I look at the Green Revolution, when I look what happened to Egypt, when I look at what happened to Occupy Wall Street, yeah, the tweets helped—they helped a lot—but without those bodies in the street, without the people actually being there, ain’t nothing to tweet about.
If Twitter worked like that, Joseph Kony would be locked down in a jail right now. You know what I’m saying? That was the most tweeted movement in the history, but there was no actual movement connected to it. There was no actual bodies on the ground. There was no actual flesh involved in all those billions of tweets that almost broke the Internet over the Stop Kony thing, you know? And so, it was a false movement. And so, tweets that are not connected to action are false. We could tweet, we could—it doesn’t change the fact that tweeting makes you feel good. Great, tweet more, tweet as much as you possibly can. But don’t get it confused and think it’s something it’s not.
ROSA CLEMENTE: Yeah, and, I mean, I think part of building the movement is also changing the narrative. It’s not just African-American men being killed—disproportionately, of course, we know that—but there are women being terrorized by police, or sexually assaulted, murdered by police, by vigilantes. What is happening on the border to Latino brothers and sisters? You want to talk about a real militarized space in the United States of America, let’s look at how militarized the border is, right? And then when we look at the history in New York City, right, as they killed Yusuf Hawkins, they put Anthony Baez in a chokehold. As they killed an African immigrant, Amadou Diallo, you know, there are other—there’s so many cases.
And really, the bigger thing is right now, how are we dealing with the system of white supremacy? How are we dealing with a system that not only views us as inhuman, both as black and brown bodies, as men and women, as children to 85-year-olds? But particularly, how are we understanding the systematic attack against us as a people? If we begin to really look, as Kimberlé Crenshaw talks about, the intersection of violence, you know, there’s no way we can’t build a movement based off of what is happening right now.
I think Ferguson is—like Occupy changed the narrative on how we view capitalism, I think Ferguson is going to change the narrative of what a police brutality movement looks like and who’s going to end up leading this movement.
AARON MATÉ: And, Talib Kweli, you’re a very popular hip-hop musician. Can you talk about the response and the responsibility of artists in times like these?
TALIB KWELI: Well, you know, I personally feel that artists have responsibilities to the communities that support their careers. But, you know, you can’t blame a baby for what he doesn’t know. And a lot of artists don’t have the political education to know when it’s time to step up. And so, you know, it’s normal to get upset. I’ve seen artists that I know and respect, like, you know, T.I., like Tyrese, you know what I’m saying, like that speak on real issues that our community is facing. But, for me, it’s about a timing thing, you know what I’m saying? Now, with all due respect to T.I. and Tyrese, those are artists that—dudes I know that speak. I follow these dudes on Twitter. I follow them. These are not dudes that don’t say nothing. They speak about our community, whether it’s in the national news or not. But to speak—you know, to speak about, to focus—make your focus on the looters and the reaction, to me, it deflects and distracts from what we, as a community, should be focused on. That’s the language of our oppressor. The oppressor doesn’t want us thinking about the horrible circumstance, so the oppressor wants us to focus on, "Well, look how you’re all acting now." You know what I’m saying? And if we start using the oppressor’s language, we have no chance to have any semblance of justice for Mike Brown.
You know, look, there’s already no justice for the family. You know, let’s say the cop is arrested and sentenced to death. Does that bring Mike Brown back? No, it doesn’t. So that family will never have justice. We have to be satisfied with waiting for a verdict from a system that clearly is stacked against us. You know, that’s what we should be talking about as a community. We shouldn’t be talking about any time we see looters. You know, it’s like Malcolm said about airing your dirty laundry. We could talk about that amongst ourselves, but when we get out in the press, we do these interviews, when we on our Twitter feeds and all that, we need to be bigging up the people like Dream Defenders, we need to be talking about these clergy here, we need to be talking about these people who are organized to protest peacefully, before we do any criticism of people who are out there with justifiable rage and anger. So, you know, I’ve tweeted, and I’ve talked about it, and I challenged my other artists to and people out there to put the focus on that. But I can’t just say that—I can’t just say that from a protracted, abstract place. I’ve got to put myself here, in order for people to really hear me and say that. And I’ve got to be able to speak on it from a firsthand experience, or else I could be considered guilty of the same thing.
AMY GOODMAN: Hip-hop star Talib Kweli and Rosa Clemente, speaking in Ferguson, Missouri. Visit our website to watch the full interview. Special thanks to Aaron Maté, Hany Massoud, Messiah Rhodes, Naqi Cruz, Mike Burke, Renée Feltz, Deena Guzder.
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Israel has leveled a 12-story apartment building and a seven-story office building as it continues its bombardment of Gaza. According to Agence France-Presse, more than 100 Palestinians have been killed since Israel resumed airstrikes last week. On Saturday and Sunday, Palestinian medics said at least 22 people were killed, including a one-year-old girl and a mother and three children from the same family. Several Palestinians have been killed today, including a three-year-old boy. On Friday, a four-year-old Israeli boy was killed by a mortar near the Gaza border, becoming the first Israeli child killed in the nearly seven-week conflict. About 500 Palestinian children have been killed over the same period. In the occupied West Bank, a 14-year-old boy who was shot Friday during a protest against the Gaza assault has died from his wounds. On Sunday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to continue the airstrikes.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: "Hamas will pay and pay heavily for its crimes. I call on the inhabitants of Gaza to evacuate immediately every site from which Hamas is carrying out terrorist activity. Every one of these places is a target for us."
There has been talk today of a possible breakthrough that could lead to the resumption of talks between Israel and Hamas over another ceasefire, but nothing has been formally announced. Over the weekend, Hamas said it supports the push to bring the conflict before the International Criminal Court, a move that could expose both Hamas and Israel to probes into possible war crimes. Hamas official Mushir al-Masri said Israel has more to fear than Hamas does.
Mushir al-Masri: "There is nothing to fear. The Palestinian factions are leading a legitimate resistance in keeping with all international laws and standards. All the nations resisted occupation. We are in a state of self-defense."
More than 300 people affected by the Nazi Holocaust have published a letter condemning "the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people." The signatories include 40 Jewish Holocaust survivors, as well as descendants of both survivors and victims. In their letter published in Saturday’s New York Times, they condemned the United States for its financial support of Israel, writing, "Genocide begins with the silence of the world."
In Washington state, protesters converged on the Port of Tacoma Saturday in a bid to block the unloading of an Israeli cargo ship in protest of the Israeli assault on Gaza. One person was arrested. The "Block the Boat" action in Tacoma followed a similar campaign at the Port of Oakland in California. Among those attending the protest in Tacoma was Cindy Corrie, whose daughter, Rachel Corrie, was crushed to death in Gaza by an Israeli army bulldozer March 16, 2003, while trying to protect a Palestinian home from demolition.
Cindy Corrie: "We feel like this is a really important step to raise our voices to challenge occupation, to challenge the siege of Gaza, and to challenge all the violence that’s happening in the Middle East."
Iran claims to have shot down an Israeli spy drone near the Natanz nuclear enrichment site. In the past, Israel has threatened to attack Iranian nuclear sites, accusing Iran of seeking to develop nuclear weapons. Iran is in ongoing talks with six countries, including the United States, over its nuclear program, which it insists is peaceful.
Michael Brown will be remembered today at a funeral in St. Louis, Missouri. His father, Michael Brown Sr., has requested a day of silence and peace after two weeks of nightly protests in Ferguson over the police killing of his 18-year-old son. The death of the unarmed black teenager by a white police officer has sparked a national conversation about race.
In New York City on Saturday, thousands marched in Staten Island to protest the police chokehold death of Eric Garner. The African-American father of six died after police wrestled him to the ground and pinned him down. He was accused of selling loose cigarettes. His death has fueled the national debate about police use of excessive force and the New York City Police Department policy of cracking down on low-level offenses. We’ll have more from the march and from Ferguson later in the broadcast.
A U.S. journalist held for nearly two years by an al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria has been released. The release of Peter Theo Curtis came less than a week after the beheading of U.S. journalist James Foley by the Islamic State in Syria. The Obama administration has denied paying any ransom for Curtis’s release, which was reportedly brokered by Qatar.
In northeast Syria, militants from the Islamic State have stormed an air base and captured it from government forces. According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, at least 346 Islamic State fighters and more than 170 members of government forces have died since Tuesday in the fight over Tabqa base. The Obama administration meanwhile is considering expanding its airstrikes against the Islamic State in Iraq to include targets inside Syria. We’ll have more on Syria and Iraq with Vijay Prashad after headlines.
Islamist militants in Libya say they have solidified control of the capital Tripoli after taking over the main airport and ousting rival militias. Libya is facing its worst violence since the U.S.-backed ouster of Muammar Gaddafi in 2011. The airport had already been closed for more than a month due to the fighting.
The Democratic Republic of the Congo has confirmed an outbreak of Ebola, which has killed at least 13 people. The country’s health minister said the outbreak was not linked to the one impacting four countries in West Africa. That outbreak has killed more than 1,400 people, which the World Health Organization acknowledges is an underestimate. An epidemiology expert sent by the WHO to Sierra Leone has contracted Ebola there, as has a British nurse who has been transported back to London. Sierra Leone has made harboring Ebola victims a crime punishable by up to two years in prison.
In California, the San Francisco Bay Area has been rocked by its strongest earthquake in 25 years. The 6.0-magnitude quake hit just south of Napa in wine country early Sunday, destroying homes, bursting water mains and gas lines and sending wine bottles hurtling to the ground. More than 120 people were injured. Economic losses could total $1 billion.
GOP Senator Rand Paul Calls Hillary Clinton a "War Hawk"
Kentucky senator, and possible Republican presidential candidate, Rand Paul has criticized Hillary Clinton for her stance on war. Clinton voted for the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq and more recently criticized President Obama for not acting more quickly to arm rebels in Syria. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press, Paul said voters might reject Clinton if she is chosen as the next Democratic nominee for president.
Senator Rand Paul: "I think that’s what scares the Democrats the most, is that in a general election, were I to run, there’s going to be a lot of independents and even some Democrats who say, 'You know what? We are tired of war. We're worried that Hillary Clinton will get us involved in another Middle Eastern war, because she’s so gung-ho.’ If you want to see a transformational election in our country, let the Democrats put forward a war hawk like Hillary Clinton, and you’ll see a transformation like you’ve never seen."
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