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Nearly two years ago, Stacey Addison of Portland, Oregon, began a trip around the world starting in Antarctica. But the trip turned into a nightmare soon after she arrived in East Timor. On September 5, Stacey, a veterinarian, was traveling in a shared taxi with another passenger she had never met. The other passenger asked the driver to stop at a DHL postal office to pick up a package. It turned out the package contained illegal drugs. Soon after, the taxi was stopped by police. Police arrested everyone in the car. More than three months later, Stacey is still locked up in East Timor. Her family and friends have been waging an international campaign for her release. We are joined by two guests: Stacey Addison’s mother, Bernadette Kero, and Charles Scheiner of La’o Hamutuk, the Timor-Leste Institute for Development Monitoring and Analysis.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Nearly two years ago, a veterinarian from Portland, Oregon, named Stacey Addison began a trip around the world, starting in Antarctica. But the trip turned into a nightmare soon after she arrived in East Timor in September. On September 5th, Stacey was traveling in a shared taxi with another passenger she had never met. The other passenger asked the driver to stop at a DHL postal office to pick up a package. It turned out the package contained illegal drugs. Soon after, the taxi was stopped by police. Police arrested everyone in the car. More than three months later, Stacey is still locked up in East Timor.
AMY GOODMAN: Stacey was initially detained for five days, then released, but had her passport taken. She was then re-arrested on October 28th. Her family and friends have been waging an international campaign for her release. The State Department said in response to Democracy Now!’s request for comment, quote, "We seek a prompt and transparent resolution to this case in accordance with Timorese law. We continue to work with the Government of Timor-Leste"—which is East Timor—"to ensure that she is given due process under the Timorese legal system."
We’re joined now by two guests. On the phone with us from Klamath Falls, Oregon, is Stacey Addison’s mother, Bernadette Kero. Here in New York, Charlie Scheiner is with us, the former national coordinator of the East Timor and Indonesia Action Network, ETAN. He has lived in East Timor since 2001 and works as a researcher for La’o Hamutuk, the Timor-Leste Institute for Development Monitoring and Analysis.
Let’s first go to Stacey’s mom in Klamath Falls in Oregon, Bernadette Kero. So, explain exactly what happened. Stacey has been posting to Facebook her traveling. She was a veterinarian, so she’s always showing herself with animals around the world. And then, Bernadette, what happened when she crossed from West Timor into East Timor?
BERNADETTE KERO: Well, she had been traveling on the Asian leg of her journey, and her Indonesian passport was about to expire, so she crossed over into her—into Timor. And her intention was to renew her Indonesian passport, but spend a week or two in East Timor. You know, she heard it was a beautiful country. They had good snorkeling. And so, she intended to tour the country. When she crossed the border, she was approached by someone to hire a car with the other passenger, so she paid $10 to get a ride to Dili, and that’s what transpired. The other passenger, as you said, asked to stop at DHL, picked up a package. Apparently, there was some sort of tip, and the car was surrounded by police. Everyone was arrested.
Initially, they told Stacey that they needed to search her. They searched her, everything—her belongings, her iPad, her—even her Advil, her drugs. They gave her drug tests. Everything was negative. The driver and the other passenger said they didn’t know her. But she was taken to jail for five days, before being brought before the judge. And again, the other passenger and the driver testified, before the judge, they didn’t know her. And she was given conditional release. So she was able to be about Dili for two months, but she didn’t have her passport. And during that time, she asked to be questioned, repeatedly. You know, she just wanted to cooperate to show she had nothing to do with it. And so, it was very shocking when she was arrested and actually put into prison.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what did they tell her when they re-arrested her as to—for the reasons for it?
BERNADETTE KERO: No—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And has she been brought up before a court yet?
BERNADETTE KERO: Really, there was not much of an explanation. Everything’s very murky. The only explanation her lawyer received was that the previous prosecutor, who’s since then been fired and removed and left the country, he had put in, a month before, an appeal that he didn’t agree with her conditional release. Again, no charges of any kind are—you know, apparently, that’s legal there, that people can be kept without a charge. So—
AMY GOODMAN: So the prosecutor’s been thrown out, the judge has been thrown out, but Stacey remains in jail.
BERNADETTE KERO: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: I’d like to turn to comment son Stacey Addison made by East Timor’s former head of state and Nobel laureate, José Ramos-Horta. He was speaking on CNN.
JOSÉ RAMOS-HORTA: She is depressed. For someone like her, coming from Oregon, on a backpacking around the world, to find herself in a prison, you cannot expect her to be not depressed. My instinct is that she is completely innocent.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s the former president of Timor, José Ramos-Horta, who’s now heading up a U.N. commission to evaluate peacekeeping around the world. Charlie Scheiner, can you put this in a bigger context? We don’t cover East Timor very much. We used to a great deal when it was occupied by Indonesia for a quarter of a century in a brutal occupation that killed a third of the population. Explain what’s happening. You lived there for the last more than a decade.
CHARLES SCHEINER: Yeah, I think Stacey’s case is a—Stacey’s been very unlucky, clearly. And there’s been a combination of bad luck that has led to her still being in prison, and of course she should be charged or released and have her day in court, like anyone else.
I think that she actually has been treated fairly well in prison. She’s depressed. Nobody wants to be in prison in a—far away from their family and their home. But if we’re comparing it with, say, Guantánamo, or comparing the situation in Timor-Leste with the situation in the U.S., there are in the entire country of Timor-Leste less than a hundred people in pretrial detention, while in the U.S. there are about 400,000. And the U.S. does not have 44 million times the population of Timor-Leste; it has about 300 times the population.
So, the situation there, there are problems with the justice system. And actually, in Stacey’s case, there seems to be some progress, and she may well be released in the next few weeks. But there are much bigger problems for the million Timorese people who live in that country—problems of poverty, problems of lack of rule of law, problems of an increasing distance between the small ruling elite and the great majority of the population.
AMY GOODMAN: It became a country in 2002.
CHARLES SCHEINER: Right, after the Indonesian occupation, which came after almost 500 years of Portuguese colonial rule, there was a vote in 1999, and then there were two-and-a-half years of United Nations transitional government, and then Timor-Leste officially became a sovereign nation on the 20th of May, 2002. So it’s only 14 years—or, 12 years old. And it’s having the problems that many adolescents have of trying to figure out its identity, of trying to—of looking at short-term policies and short-term decisions rather than thinking about the future. And as one of the most petroleum export-dependent countries in the world—it’s probably in the top three, except that it doesn’t have very much oil and natural gas—it’s got a little bit of a window of opportunity to use that money to benefit the lives of the people and to develop a more sustainable economy. And unfortunately, it’s not using that opportunity.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That’s precisely what I was going ask you, because it does have, relatively for its size, a considerable surplus in terms of its oil revenues at this stage, billions of dollars in a fund, and yet it’s not utilizing that to improve the conditions of the people?
CHARLES SCHEINER: Right. Well, Timor-Leste wisely realized, when they first started—or, actually, before they first started getting money from oil and gas, which was in 2006, that that was temporary, that the oil and gas was nonrenewable—once it was extracted, they wouldn’t have it anymore—and they shouldn’t spend the money as fast as it comes in. So they’ve spent about $5 billion out of the oil money. They’ve saved about $16 billion. And they have already been through, have already used up about two-thirds of their oil and gas reserves. So, in another five years, when the oil and gas runs out, and the 95 percent of the state budget that that now pays for—it’s about 80 percent of the entire economy—when that comes to zero—and it’s already dropping—they’re going to need that $16 billion. But what’s distressing to the organization I work for and to many people is that the $5 billion that has been spent hasn’t been invested in things like education, healthcare, basic sanitation—the things that are needed both to improve people’s lives and to provide a sustainable economy in the future.
AMY GOODMAN: So, explain what Stacey has been caught in right now. She’s been held in pretrial detention. The prosecutor and the judge, why have they been thrown out of the country?
CHARLES SCHEINER: In the end of October, the prime minister, Xanana Gusmão, went to the Parliament, in a closed meeting—which is, I think, not legal—and persuaded Parliament to pass a resolution saying, "We need to have a thorough audit of the judicial system, and all foreign prosecutors, judges, advisers working in the judicial system should leave the country." The court—and then, the same day, there was a resolution passed by the Council of Ministers, by the Cabinet, to reinforce that. The head of the court system said, "We have separation of powers. The judges and the prosecutors don’t work for Parliament and the prime minister. They work for me," and, "Keep working." And then, a week later, the government passed a resolution saying, "These contracts are terminated. These people don’t have valid visas anymore. They have to leave within 48 hours." And they did.
Timor-Leste, unfortunately, as a small new country, depends on foreigners for a lot of things, including some support in the court system. And many of the foreigners who go there are not very good. So it’s not a question that these were wonderful judges who were doing a great job. And in fact, the one who was the prosecutor for Stacey’s case, who was a foreigner from Cabo Verde, is part of the problem of why she’s still in prison. He’s gone now. There’s a Timorese prosecutor who, from what I’ve been told, has been doing a much better job, who’s talking with her, who questioned her, is taking her statements, and is starting the process now which will get her out of prison.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, I’d like to bring Bernadette Kero, Stacey’s mother, back into the conversation. What kind of contact have you had with your daughter? And what’s been the role of U.S. officials in East Timor in terms of helping you gain her freedom?
BERNADETTE KERO: I can contact her once a week through the embassy, when they visit. I can email them a letter, and they print it out, and she’s able to write me a response, and they scan it back. So, that’s my only contact, is once a week. She’s—you know, she’s discouraged. She’s been ill with gastrointestinal problems, quite severely this last week. So, that’s my basic contact. The embassy has been very supportive. They usually call me after the visit, let me know. And we’ve been in touch through email. So, that’s my contact.
And in response to Mr. Scheiner, you know, I would agree, totally, that—I’ve read a lot about the country. Didn’t know much about it before this, but since, I’ve read quite a bit. And, you know, they’ve had quite a history of struggles. And I think it’s just unfortunate for, of course, my daughter, for our family and for the country, this whole situation, because Stacey is just the type of person, a tourist, they—you know, could benefit their country. She wanted to see the local culture. She’s interested in going to the sites, the scuba and all that, and a professional who, you know, loves to travel, had some extra money to do it.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to certainly continue to tell her story. Bernadette Kero, thanks so much for being with us from Klamath Falls, Oregon, Dr. Stacey Addison’s mom. Stacey is in jail now in East Timor. Her Facebook, Facebook.com/PleaseHelpStacey, we’ll link to it at democracynow.org. And, Charlie Scheiner, thanks so much for being with us.
CHARLES SCHEINER: Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: Former national coordinator of the East Timor and Indonesia Action Network, has lived in Timor, Timor-Leste, since 2001, now with La’o Hamutuk, the Timor-Leste Institute for Development Monitoring and Analysis.
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A Wisconsin prosecutor has decided not to bring charges against a white police officer who fatally shot a mentally ill African-American man. In April, Milwaukee Officer Christopher Manney responded to a call about a man sleeping in a park. Before Manney arrived, two other officers had already spoken to the man, Dontre Hamilton, and found he was not causing a problem. But Manney said Hamilton resisted when he tried to frisk him, sparking a confrontation, during which Hamilton grabbed Manney’s baton and hit him. Manney opened fire, shooting Hamilton 14 times. The shooting led to Manney’s firing for violating policy on handling people with mental illnesses. But on Monday, the Milwaukee County district attorney said Manney acted in self-defense. The shooting of Hamilton has sparked mass protests in Milwaukee including a highway shutdown Friday which resulted in 74 arrests. One day later, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker called up the state’s National Guard to be on standby. The Justice Department has announced a federal review of the case. We speak with Democratic State Representative Mandela Barnes in Milwaukee.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: In Wisconsin, a prosecutor has decided not to bring charges against a white police officer who fatally shot a mentally ill African-American man in April. Milwaukee Officer Christopher Manney responded to a call about a man sleeping in a park. Before Manney arrived, two other officers had already spoken to the man, Dontre Hamilton, and found he was not causing a problem. But Manney said Hamilton resisted when he tried to frisk him, sparking a confrontation during which Hamilton grabbed Manney’s baton and hit him with it. Manney opened fire, shooting Hamilton 14 times. The shooting led to Manney’s firing for violating the department’s policy for handling people with mental illnesses. But on Monday, Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm said Manney acted in self-defense.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY JOHN CHISHOLM: After carefully analyzing the investigation, the forensic evidence in the case, the law and the conclusions of both the local use of force expert and Mr. Kapelsohn’s report, I have come to the conclusion that criminal charges are not appropriate in this case, and I am releasing all of the information related to this investigation so that you, the public, can see all the facts related to this decision.
AMY GOODMAN: The shooting of Dontre Hamilton has sparked mass protest in Milwaukee, including a highway shutdown Friday which resulted in 74 arrests. One day later, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker called up the National Guard to be on standby. On Tuesday, a group of protesters staged a die-in at Mayfair Mall. They lay on the ground and read out loud 14 reasons why black lives matter—14 is the number of times Dontre Hamilton was shot. On Monday, Dontre Hamilton’s brother Nate spoke outside the federal courthouse.
NATE HAMILTON: My family, we’ve cried too long. As a people, we’re done crying when injustice comes. We’re not going to cover up injustice with our tears. We’re not going to be, you know, laid-back and stay sheltered from justice. We deserve justice.
CROWD: That’s right!
NATE HAMILTON: Justice is our right. You know, my family—you know, I love my family. I love my brother. So, you know, this is a fight that we are going to endure. We’re going to stay strong. We’re not going to waver. We’re not going to let it pass. We’re not going to turn our backs no more.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, the Justice Department has announced a federal review of the case.
For more, we go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where we’re joined by Democratic State Representative Mandela Barnes, his Twitter handle @TheOtherMandela. He joins us from the PBS station WMVT.
We welcome you to Democracy Now! Can you start off by giving your reaction to the decision not to indict the police officer who killed Dontre Hamilton? And explain to us what happened in the park, as you understand it.
REP. MANDELA BARNES: All right. Well, first of all, I want to thank you for having me this morning. It’s a very important issue, and I’m glad that we’re getting some national attention on the issue.
I was very disappointed when our district attorney chose not to charge Officer—excuse me, former Officer Manney. I put in a phone call to the District Attorney’s Office on Friday. We’ve typically had a very good working relationship. He’s someone that I—you know, I have respect for still, to this moment, but he has gotten this case wrong.
Previously, last year, he got another case wrong, in my opinion, with Corey Stingley, a young man who was killed in a convenience store. He was shoplifting. And after the young man was caught shoplifting, he returned every item that he had to the store clerk. He was getting ready to leave the store, and a few—a number of men decided to take it upon themselves to place another level of justice upon this young man, and they took him down, eventually killing the young man. There were no charges pressed against anybody. That was the first mark.
This is the second mark here with the noncharging of former Officer Manney. For Officer Manney to have lost his job means that there is something—something terrible took place, something that warranted his termination. And for him not to be criminally charged is beyond my imagination at this point, seeing that he acted, in his capacity as an officer, with negligence.
And I’ll say, in every form of the term, this is overkill. He was the third officer to check on Dontre Hamilton. He fired 14 shots into one individual. In my opinion, if you were to punch a person 14 times, you would disable that person. For him to have decided to take it upon himself to say, "All right, well"—I don’t know if he—I don’t know if he checked with the other officers to see what happened, because—I want to know the opinion of the other two officers. Why did the other two officers say—why did the other two officers leave the situation alone? For him to be the third person—you, myself, anybody would be aggravated if we were stopped by three officers in one day in the same place within a very short time frame.
And for a person who’s dealing with some form of mental illness, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, for you—or to be a person in that mental state and for the officer to not have reacted appropriately or approached that situation appropriately, that’s criminally negligent, in my opinion, for—you know, you went against the rules, you went against the training, and as a result, someone is dead now. At the least, there’s some form of responsibility that has to be taken for the loss of another life, and that hasn’t happened. I’m very disappointed with the decision of the district attorney.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Representative Barnes, why did it take so long to even make a decision here? This happened in April, months before the Michael Brown situation in Ferguson or the Eric Garner killing in Staten Island, and yet this decision has only come down now.
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Right. And what you see is, when it takes this long, the decision is—the decision has already been made. When it takes this long, it’s a way that—it’s a time period for the decision makers to craft a response that’s palatable for the public, or that should be palatable to the public. But this is not justice, so there’s no way you can palate an injustice such as this one.
AMY GOODMAN: In October, Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn announced he had fired Officer Christopher Manney. This is what he said.
POLICE CHIEF ED FLYNN: Christopher Manney treated Hamilton as though he were a dangerous criminal, instead of following his training in treating Mr. Hamilton as an EDP. Christopher Manney’s approach, including an out-of-policy pat down, was not based on individualized reasonable suspicion, but on an assumption of his mental state and his housing status. This intentional action, in violation of training and policy, instigated a physical confrontation that necessitated a use of deadly force.
Based on the comprehensive internal investigation conducted by the Milwaukee Police Department, I charged Officer Manney with a violation of our Core Value 1.00, Competence, in reference to his out-of-policy contact with Mr. Hamilton, which ultimately led to his within-policy use of deadly force. Based on the totality of the circumstances, including the aggravating and mitigating factors I’ve described, I signed an order terminating Christopher Manney from his employment with the Milwaukee Police Department earlier today.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Milwaukee Police Chief Flynn’s decision to fire Manney, stirring unrest among the department’s rank and file. The Milwaukee Police Association convened a no-confidence vote in Flynn. The union has not disclosed the exact number of voters but said it was a majority of the roughly 1,600 membership. Can you talk more about this, Representative Mandela Barnes?
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Right.
AMY GOODMAN: So, he’s fired from the force, but also he’s been vindicated. He has not been indicted.
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Right, because—right. Dontre Hamilton is dead as a result of the intentional, out-of-policy behavior of former Officer Christopher Manney. That says enough. You acted in the capacity as a sworn officer. As a result of your action as a sworn officer that is not compliant with the code of conduct, a person is dead. And for him to not receive any criminal charges, again, is beyond me.
And as far as the Milwaukee Police Association, I’m very disappointed that they would take a no-confidence vote. If you were to take a no-confidence vote of police officers, you may see the same result, when you see things like this happen. And again, it’s not every officer. And that’s the unfortunate part. There are so many good officers. The overwhelming number, the overwhelming majority of officers are good. However, you see situations like this play out when you have these bad actors, and these bad actors are not properly reprimanded. It creates a culture, and it creates a suspicion amongst the general population that the police, in general, are not acting in our favor, which isn’t true, but if you have players like the Milwaukee Police Association defending the behavior, then it will lead one to believe that—or lead one to question whose side are they really on.
Unfortunately, you know, whatever political reason that the Milwaukee Police Association felt the need to step in and be very antithetical to the opinion of the populace is—it’s remarkable, honestly. Some things you just can’t defend, and I don’t see how they could defend this. Officers don’t just get let go. They don’t just get terminated. This is not a usual occurrence. For Chief Flynn to step in and make the bold decision to terminate Officer Manney’s—former Officer Manney’s employment was a step in the right direction to build more confidence with the city of Milwaukee police and the general public. However, the Milwaukee Police Association, their need to step in and be very critical of Chief Flynn does nothing but diminish the steps that Chief Flynn has taken.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Representative Barnes, your reaction—well, first of all, the reaction among the citizens of Milwaukee to this case, the protests that have been occurring and the blocking of the highway, and then Governor Walker’s decision to put the National Guard on standby?
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Well, Governor Walker is no stranger to protests and protesters. To signal that he’s going to call in the National Guard, as he did almost four years ago when we saw what became Act 10, it’s a scare tactic. And it’s a waste of taxpayer money. There had been no indication that any of the protests were going to get out of hand. There had been no indication that any of the protests would be violent. They had not been. Until this point, they remain nonviolent. There had been no arrests until the incident on the freeway.
And it’s a shame when you see not only Governor Walker, but also Sheriff Clarke, step in and feel the need to—need to bring in additional forces. This is the same thing. I make the comparison that calling in the National Guard on peaceful protesters is just like an officer firing 14 shots at an unarmed man who was sleeping in a park. This excessive use of force, this creation of fear amongst people, is what leads to the mistrust or the lack of trust, for the general public, in law enforcement. Again, Governor Walker, Sheriff Clarke, in my opinion, were both out of line for signaling the need or to call in the National Guard. It’s unnecessary. It proved unnecessary.
AMY GOODMAN: Milwaukee County Supervisor Deanna Alexander recently tweeted, quote, "Well, I broke down & bought myself a present: a 'BREATHE EASY — Don't Break the Law’ T-shirt!" Can you respond to that?
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Yes. For the same reasons that Chief Flynn basically said that he let Officer Manney go was because of lack of competence. Unfortunately, as a person who is elected to public office, this shows—and again, it’s OK, if you want to be antithetical, if you want to be the antagonist in speech. But we’re talking about human life right now. This shows an utter disrespect and disregard for human life. These were a man’s dying words, "I can’t breathe." For you to step in—
AMY GOODMAN: This was Eric Garner’s dying words in Staten Island.
REP. MANDELA BARNES: These are Eric Garner’s dying words: "I can’t breathe." For Supervisor Alexander to step in and feel the need that she needs to placate her constituency—not even her constituency, because she does represent a semi-urban population—to placate her supporters—you can kowtow to any political persuasion as you wish. This is not a left or right issue. This is not a Democrat issue, this is not a Republican issue. This is a matter of life and death. For Supervisor Alexander—
AMY GOODMAN: And she occupies the position that Governor Walker used to be in, right? The Milwaukee County—
REP. MANDELA BARNES: No. No, no, no, no, no no. No, no, Supervisor—excuse me, Governor Walker was the county executive.
AMY GOODMAN: Ah.
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Yeah, she’s a supervisor. For her to display this utter disregard for human life shows that she has no capacity to serve in public office. And this is honestly somebody who I’ve felt that I disagree with fundamentally on many issues. Whenever I see her, typically, we—not even typically. We’re always able to have a cordial conversation. But this crosses the line. This is completely out of line to disrespect any human. My Twitter is going crazy now because somebody mentioned me in the same tweet as her, and everybody’s retweeting it, favoring it, or favoriting—I don’t know, however you say that, favoriting the tweet. And now my Twitter is going crazy because of her statements. It’s completely out of line. There is no excuse for that type of behavior, that type of—it show poor decision making.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And finally—and finally, Representative Barnes, what’s the recourse right now for those who are still seeking to get justice in the case of Dontre Hamilton and for his family?
REP. MANDELA BARNES: So, the federal investigation right now is the next step. It’s where the Hamilton family is, bringing in the Department of Justice and still just doing whatever they can to bring more attention to the situation. The more people that know about the situation, the more people that feel a level of compassion and understand that an injustice was done. And the fact that Officer Manney is not facing charges, criminal charges, at least at the state level, is very unfortunate. But the family must keep on. The family must keep pressing leaders, whether you’re an elected leader or whether you’re just a leader in your respective community. We have to continue to pay attention. We have to continue to put pressure and make sure that we have policies in place that lead to a—to creating a better, a stronger relationship with Milwaukee police, or police across the entire country, and the general populace—and the populace.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you for being with us.
REP. MANDELA BARNES: Thank you. I want to thank you guys for having me.
AMY GOODMAN: Wisconsin Democratic state Representative Mandela Barnes, his Twitter handle @TheOtherMandela, speaking to us from Milwaukee.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’re talking Guantánamo. Stay with us.
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Six years after first promising to close Guantánamo, President Obama is beginning to free more men from the 13-year-old military prison in Cuba. Four Afghans were sent home this week, following six other Guantánamo prisoners sent to Uruguay earlier this month, four years after they were first approved for release. Their transfer was the largest for a single group out of Guantánamo since 2009. Meanwhile, Clifford Sloan, the Obama administration’s envoy for Guantánamo’s closure, has just submitted his resignation. But with 132 prisoners still behind bars, will Guantánamo ever close? We are joined by Pardiss Kebriaei, senior staff attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Image Credit: DefenseImagery.mil
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The United States has released four Afghan prisoners from Guantánamo Bay. The four men will all return to Afghanistan, where they’ll apparently be able to live without restriction. Earlier this month, six other Guantánamo prisoners were sent to Uruguay, four years after they were first approved for release. Their transfer was the largest for a single group of Guantánamo prisoners since 2009.
Meanwhile, the Obama administration’s envoy for the effort to close Guantánamo Bay has resigned—Clifford Sloan, a Washington lawyer. He headed the State Department’s Office of Guantánamo Closure for 18 months.
Speaking to CNN on Sunday, President Obama said he will do everything he can to close Guantánamo.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I’m going to be doing everything I can to close it. It is—it is something that continues to inspire jihadists and extremists around the world, the fact that these folks are being held. It is contrary to our values. And it is wildly expensive. … We need to close that facility, and I’m going to do everything I can.
AMY GOODMAN: With the latest release, there are 132 prisoners left at Guantánamo.
To talk more about the significance of this, we’re now joined by Pardiss Kebriaei, senior staff attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Welcome to Democracy Now!
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: So there have been these series of two groups who have been released from Guantánamo. Talk about their significance.
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Right. So, all of these men were held for over a decade, for 12, 13 years, without charge. They were all approved for release by the Obama administration in 2009. The four men who went to Afghanistan had spent half of their imprisonment at Guantánamo waiting for release.
The significance, I think, is—you know, in terms of Uruguay in particular, it’s the first Latin American country, the first country in South America, to come forward and offer safe haven to men who need it in order to leave Guantánamo. President Mujica has really emphasized the fact that he’s doing this as a humanitarian gesture. He, himself, obviously, was a political prisoner for 14 years, was in isolation. So I think his expressions of support, the fact that Uruguay has come forward and taken six men—he released a letter from the State Department stating that the United States did not have enough information that these men were involved in conducting or facilitating terrorist activities. So I think this, for the region, is important.
And then I think we hope that there is more of an opening for more countries in South America and in the region to come forward and take the additional men who remain. There are 64 men, of the 132 still at Guantánamo, who have been approved for release, most of whom since 2009. So it is absolutely past time for these men to go home. We are now approaching the 13th year anniversary of Guantánamo. January 11th will be the beginning of the 14th year that these men have been in prison. So it is time—it’s past time to close it.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, in an interview, outgoing Uruguayan President José Mujica said he agreed to receive the six prisoners out of his long-standing opposition to Guantánamo Bay.
PRESIDENT JOSÉ MUJICA: [translated] That isn’t a prison. It’s a kidnapping den, because a prison entails subjection to some system of law, the presence of some sort of prosecutor, the decision of some judge—whomever that may be—and a minimal point of reference from a judicial point of view. Guantánamo has nothing.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was outgoing Uruguayan President Mujica. But earlier this month, Abd al Hadi described his new life. He’s one of the folks released there in Uruguay.
ABD AL HADI OMAR MAHMOUD FARAJ: [translated] Uruguay is a beautiful country. The Spanish class here is good, and I study two hours every day. I can speak a little Spanish, and I know how to say "Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday."
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Pardiss, this whole issue of Sloan resigning, could you talk about that? And there’s been speculation that he was very unhappy with the pace of the releases, especially with the responses of the Defense Department to releasing the men in Guantánamo.
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Sure. And just on that point of the video you just showed, I mean, I think it is very important to note that the American public never has direct exposure to the men themselves. And I think that if we were to have that kind of exposure—and there are citizens of most of the world, of the rest of the world, that interact with former detainees, who can go to panel discussions and hear them talk about their imprisonment, who can have that exposure firsthand. We never get that here in the United States. And I think that really—that’s one of the reasons why I think these myths about who we have held and the fear mongering that continues to happen is allowed to continue. So, that’s just—you know, it’s important to note.
As far as Sloan, you know, I don’t know that we really have much insight into why he resigned. I think the point is that the administration needs to fill that position immediately. He’s played a critical role. That position has a critical role. It’s the special envoy, the person tasked with negotiating transfers. He was appointed by President Obama after the hunger strike, if you remember, in 2013, after a couple of years where that office had been closed. Since Sloan had been in his position, there have been nearly—there have been nearly two dozen transfers. So, the pace of transfers has been what we—what should be happening, what we expect to continue to be happening. And the administration absolutely needs to fill that position immediately.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to comments that President Obama made about Guantánamo while speaking to Candy Crowley on her last show on CNN over the weekend.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: There are a little less than 150 individuals left in this facility. We are going to continue to place those who have been cleared for release or transfer to host countries that are willing to take them. There’s going to be a certain irreducible number that are going to be really hard cases, because, you know, we know they’ve done something wrong, and they are still dangerous, but it’s difficult to mount the evidence in a traditional Article III court. And so, we’re going to have to wrestle with that. But we need to close that facility, and I’m going to do everything I can.
AMY GOODMAN: So, President Obama, one of his first acts in office as president, way back in 2009, was to close Guantánamo. Congress opposed it. What can he do? I mean, he’s done a lot on other issues right now, on the issue of immigration, for example. What can he do on Guantánamo?
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: He can continue this pace of transfers until all of the men, not just those who are cleared right now, but all of the men the administration does not intend to charge are released. He has the authority under Congress right now. There are countries coming forward to resettle men. There are a number of men—it’s important to be clear that this is now largely a prison for Yemeni detainees. Over 80 of the 132 who are still there are from Yemen. Some of those men want to go home. They should be able to go home. The administration has said that it’s going to review cases, individual cases, case by case. It should be looking at the specific circumstances of each of those people and determining whether some of them can go home. Some of them, frankly, want to go to third countries, and they should be resettled. And there are now countries coming forward to do that.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But what can be done about that specific Yemeni situation, where obviously the government in Yemen, given the continuing strife there, is hardly in a position to say, "Well, we’re going to take all these guys back"?
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Well, I mean, I think there is—there is a certain number. Of the 64 who’ve been cleared, 55 are Yemeni. These are men the administration has determined do not pose the kind of threat that would require them to continue to be detained at Guantánamo. There is also this myth that all of the people at Guantánamo were ever engaging in terrorism to begin with. So the idea that they would—there’s a risk of returning to the battlefield is just—is false. So we need to be clear about that. There are administration officials themselves who said—the former commander—a former commander of Guantánamo said, easily, a third of the men there should not have been there, were mistakes. They later changed that to half of the men. So there is a history and a facts—you know, facts that we need to be clear about in terms of who we have held there.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Pardiss, you know, it’s quite amazing, in the last few weeks, these historic developments, the U.S. and Cuba normalizing relations. For the U.S. to have this piece of land, what, rent it from Cuba, you would think since the U.S. has imposed this embargo for more than 50 years, what they’d want to do with that piece of land is show Cuba what they believe, what the U.S. government believes democracy should look like, should be conducted like. Instead, they have this prison there—
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Absolutely.
AMY GOODMAN: —where they’ve tortured and held men.
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Absolutely.
AMY GOODMAN: Many of them have been cleared for more than a decade.
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: Absolutely. And in the context of discussion right now about accountability for torture, I think it’s also important to note and be clear that when the U.S. releases people and sends them home, there is never a moment of acknowledgment of wrongdoing for having held them for 12, 13 years without charge and having tortured them. And we know that torture has happened, not just in CIA black sites, but in military prisons like Guantánamo.
AMY GOODMAN: Should the U.S. give Guantánamo back to—this whole area, Guantánamo Bay, to Cuba?
PARDISS KEBRIAEI: I think it should. But a first step would be closing the prison—and closing it the right way, not whittling the number of prisoners down to some palatable number for the U.S. public and transferring them to prisons in the United States.
AMY GOODMAN: Pardiss Kebriaei, I want to thank you for being with us, senior staff attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights. When we come back, an unhappy Christmas story. A woman who gets in a cab in a small island nation called East Timor ends up in prison. We’ll find out why. And then a remarkable Christmas story, as a prisoner returning to Cuba sees his wife for the first time, gets to hold her for the first time, in years. She’s about to give birth to a baby in about two weeks. Stay with us.
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We end today’s show with a story of love, birth and politics — a story some are calling "diplomaculate conception." The wife of one of the members of the Cuban Five who was just released from prison after 16 years is expecting a baby, due in just two weeks thanks to some unusual diplomatic moves. Gerardo Hernández, the baby’s father, is one of the three former Cuban intelligence agents released as part of a prisoner swap amidst thawing ties with Cuba last week. While he was not allowed conjugal visits, Hernández was able to impregnate his wife by having his frozen sperm transferred to his wife in Panama, a process authorized by U.S. officials, funded by the Cuban government and facilitated by a staffer for Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy. We are joined by Martin Garbus, an attorney for the Cuban Five.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We end now with another story, an interesting story to do with Cuba. Juan?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, we end today’s show with a story of love, birth and politics. The wife of one of the members of the Cuban Five who was just released from prison after 16 years is expecting a baby, due just in two weeks from now. Gerardo Hernández is the baby’s father, is one of the three former Cuban intelligence agents released as part of a prisoner swap amidst thawing ties with Cuba last week. While he was not allowed conjugal visits, Hernández was able to impregnate his wife by having his frozen sperm transferred to his wife in Panama, a process authorized by U.S. officials, funded by the Cuban government and facilitated by a staffer for Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy. The process reportedly helped set a softer tone between Cuba and the United States, which culminated in the resumption of diplomatic ties and the release of two U.S. prisoners, including USAID contractor Alan Gross. And Gerardo Hernández and his wife, Adriana Pérez, are now expecting a baby girl. Senator Leahy appeared on NBC’s Today show to discuss what happened.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY: We never said, "OK, we’ll do this, if you do that." We just did it as a human thing. I think it impressed the Cubans. When Tim Rieser went back down later, asked to improve the conditions of Alan Gross’s prison cell, where he’s staying, they made dramatic improvements. Didn’t release him, but made dramatic improvements. And then we got a letter from her, saying that she was pregnant, and thanking us so very much. And, I mean, I feel like the godfather or something in this. I’ve never met her husband, but I’ve seen the pictures since they reunited, the joy on his face, especially the joy on hers, and they’re going to have a little girl.
AMY GOODMAN: Senator Leahy’s longtime aide is Tim Rieser, who facilitated this.
Well, for more, we’re joined by attorney Martin Garbus, who played a key role in this amazing story, a member of the Cuban Five legal team. Time magazine calls Garbus "one of the best trial lawyers in the country," while National Law Journal has named him one of the country’s top 10 litigators.
But you performed a little different role in this. Were you there when the transfer of sperm was made, when Gerardo handed it over?
MARTIN GARBUS: I was not. I think that it speaks to the interests of Cuban people, to the interests of Gerardo, to the interests of his wife, with respect to what happened there—an exceptional couple. I think, over the years, we’ll learn more about them.
He was a man who was in prison for 16 years, did about three years in solitary confinement, never committed an infraction in prison. To never commit an infraction in prison is absolutely remarkable. It’s a very difficult thing not to do something like that. He’s a man of—I never visited him when he wasn’t up. I never visited him when he didn’t look towards a very good future with he and his wife. One of the things I asked him about, I said, "How can you have this kind of attitude when you’re in prison?" He was in a maximum-security prison. He’s an educated man. Most of the people surrounding him in prison did not have his education, did not have his politics. It was a prison—as I said, maximum security—up in Victorville, California. So you had—
AMY GOODMAN: By the way, he was spying not on the United States. He had worked with the United States. He was spying on violent anti-Cuban groups in the United States.
MARTIN GARBUS: Right. And what he said, and it directly relates to what you said—I said, "How do you get through it? How do you get through every day?" And he said, "I’m different than most of the prisoners in the prison system." He says, "A lot of them feel that they took lives or did take lives or sold drugs." He said, "I saved people’s lives." He said, "Because of me, people’s lives on the island were saved. We stopped bombings. We stopped various terrorist attacks."
AMY GOODMAN: But how did this happen, as we have just 30 seconds?
MARTIN GARBUS: This happened as part of the negotiations to—
AMY GOODMAN: How did they do it? Did they freeze the sperm?
MARTIN GARBUS: Well, the—I’m not free to talk about that.
AMY GOODMAN: Why not?
MARTIN GARBUS: And I think what happened is, it becomes part of the negotiations with Gross, and that Gross needed different conditions, wanted different conditions, and the Cubans were more than ready to make sure that he never had to suffer the same privations as Gerardo.
AMY GOODMAN: Were you involved with the negotiations, around this, around the—
MARTIN GARBUS: I can’t talk about that, either.
AMY GOODMAN: Is the baby going to look like you or him? Well, it’s quite an interesting story. And they’re going to have their baby in about two weeks?
MARTIN GARBUS: Yeah, 15 days. The baby’s name is Gena, G-E-N-A. And it was nerve-racking for some—for him to be sitting in jail while all this was going on, not knowing when and how it was going to be disclosed, and hoping for his wife’s health, while he’s sitting in sometimes solitary confinement, sometimes lockup.
AMY GOODMAN: And it all came from her approaching Senator Leahy when he was visiting Cuba?
MARTIN GARBUS: It came from the Cubans approaching Senator Leahy.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Martin Garbus, thanks for sort of clearing that up. Attorney Martin Garbus, thanks so much for being with us, a member of the Cuban Five legal team.
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Missouri Police Kill Black Teen Near Ferguson
Police in Missouri have fatally shot an 18-year-old black man just two miles from Ferguson, where an officer killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown earlier this year. The victim has been identified as Antonio Martin. Police say Martin had pulled a gun on an officer who was conducting a routine check on a gas station. A woman identified as Martin’s mother said her son was with his girlfriend.
Unidentified: "No, they’re not telling me nothing. No. ... [The girlfriend] told me that they was walking to the — they went to the store, they was walking somewhere. They was walking. And the police — I guess he started to run or something, and the police started shooting."
The mother says she was told her son was shot as he tried to run away. Protesters gathered at the scene of the shooting overnight, leading to three arrests.
Protesters Defy NYC Mayor’s Call for Halt to Protests Following Officer Murders
The shooting in Missouri comes as protesters in New York City have ignored a call to suspend demonstrations following the killings of two NYPD officers. New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio had asked demonstrators for a pause until after the funerals of ambushed officers Wanjian Liu and Rafael Ramos. On Tuesday, a crowd of several hundred marched through midtown Manhattan to protest police brutality and racial profiling.
Eric Josephson: "Some cops have been shot, apparently by a crazed individual. It is necessary not to let that action become the face of this whole series of events, because it’s still young black men that are taking a beating and getting shot."
Earlier in the day, Mayor de Blasio led a moment of silence for the two officers at City Hall.
Family Calls for Federal Probe After Houston Officer Cleared in Fatal Shooting of Unarmed Black Man
In Houston, the shooting death of another unarmed African American by a police officer has led to another non-indictment. On Tuesday, a grand jury cleared Houston police officer Juventino Castro for the fatal shooting of 26-year-old Jordan Baker. Castro was off-duty and working as a private security guard when he shot and killed Baker in January. Castro says he tried to stop Baker at a mall with a recent history of break-ins, and claims Baker charged at him after the two got into a confrontation. Baker was unarmed. At the courthouse, activist Deric Muhammad and Jordan Baker’s mother, Janet Baker, denounced the non-indictment.
Deric Muhammad: "Welcome to Ferguson, Texas. Out of 93 police killings, there have not been one indictment."
Janet Baker: "I was hopeful. I’ve always stated that I believe in God. A wise person, friend said, justice delayed is not justice denied. When your child leaves and goes three blocks away from home, three blocks away from home, you expect him to come back."
Activists in Houston have organized for a city-wide protest next Monday. The Baker family is calling for a federal investigation like those in other recent unpunished police killings of unarmed African Americans — Michael Brown, Eric Garner and Milwaukee’s Dontre Hamilton. On Tuesday, a group of Milwaukee protesters staged a "die-in" at a local mall. They lay on the ground and read out loud 14 reasons why black lives matter — 14 is the number of times Dontre Hamilton was shot.
FDA Eases Lifetime Ban on Blood Donations by Gay, Bisexual Men
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is easing a longtime ban on blood donations by gay and bisexual men. Men who have had sex with other men have been barred from giving blood since the dawn of the AIDS crisis in the early 1980s. The new rules will end the lifetime deferral period but continue to bar donations from any man who’s had sex with another within the previous 12 months. Advocacy groups have campaigned for years to end the lifetime ban, saying it has no scientific reasoning. But many say the new one-year ban still falls short. In a statement, the group AIDS United called the policy change a "step forward," but said it "continues to perpetuate discrimination against gay and bisexual men." Saying it was "extremely disappointed," the group Equality California said: "This revised policy would continue to discriminate against gay and bisexual men with low risk factors based on their sexual orientation and would continue to unnecessarily prevent countless gay and bisexual men from making life-saving donations to the nation’s blood supply."
Obama Admin Envoy for Guantánamo Closure Resigns
The Obama administration’s envoy for the effort to close Guantánamo Bay has resigned. Clifford Sloan, a Washington lawyer, headed the State Department’s Office of Guantánamo Closure for 18 months.
GOP Rep. Grimm Pleads Guilty to Tax Fraud, Won’t Resign
Republican Rep. Michael Grimm of New York has pleaded guilty to tax fraud –- but says he will not resign. On Tuesday, Grimm entered a guilty plea on a single charge of aiding in the preparation of a false tax return at his New York City fast-food health restaurant, Healthalicious. As part of a plea deal, Grimm admitted to hiding over $900,000 in revenue and lying during a deposition. Outside the courtroom, Grimm told reporters he will keep his House seat after taking responsibility for his wrongdoing.
Rep. Michael Grimm: "If you do something wrong, you can never fully get passed it until you accept responsibility for it. And that’s what I’m doing, taking full responsibility so that I can close this chapter in my life. I under-reported the gross sales receipts of the restaurant to pay business expenses, including payroll for employees that were off the books. It’s wrong. I should not have done it and I am truly sorry for it."
Sony Gives "The Interview" Christmas Release at Independent Theaters
The movie studio Sony will be releasing the controversial comedy "The Interview" after all. The film’s release was canceled last week following threats against theaters and a hack of Sony’s corporate data. The Obama administration blamed North Korea for targeting Sony in response to the film’s plot, which revolves around a CIA effort to kill North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. Many experts have questioned the evidence of North Korean responsibility, and the United States rejected North Korea’s demand for a joint probe. On Tuesday, Sony said "The Interview" will be screened on Christmas Day at independent theaters around the country after major chains bowed out. These include the State Theater, owned by documentary filmmaker Michael Moore in Traverse City, Michigan.
U.N. Arms Trade Treaty Takes Effect; U.S. Hasn’t Ratified
The world’s first-ever treaty regulating the global arms trade has taken effect. The United Nations Arms Trade Treaty legally enters force today following its approval last year. It subjects exporters in the $85 billion global weaponry industry to strict criteria in an effort to prevent acts of genocide or terrorism. The United States is the world’s largest weapons exporter. It signed the treaty last year, but the Senate has not yet ratified it. In a statement, the group Oxfam celebrated the treaty’s implementation, saying: "The Arms Trade Treaty will transform the global arms business. ... It will no longer be acceptable to look the other way when arms are transferred to regimes that will use them to harm innocent people and violate their human rights."
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