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David Cay Johnston: 21 Questions for Trump on Kickbacks, Busting Unions, the Mob & Corporate Welfare
To talk more about Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump, we are joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Cay Johnston, who has covered Trump off and on for 27 years. He recently wrote an article for The National Memo titled "21 Questions for Donald Trump." David Cay Johnston is an investigative reporter previously with The New York Times. He’s currently a columnist for Al Jazeera America as well as a contributing writer at Newsweek. His latest book is "Divided. The Perils of Our Growing Inequality."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: To talk more about Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump, we’re joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Cay Johnston, who has covered Trump off and on for 27 years. He recently wrote an article for National Memo titled "21 Questions for Donald Trump."
AMY GOODMAN: David Cay Johnston is an investigative reporter previously with The New York Times. He’s currently a columnist for Al Jazeera America as well as a contributing writer at Newsweek. His latest book is Divided: The Perils of Our Growing Inequality.
David, welcome back to Democracy Now! You have been covering Donald Trump for more than 30 years. Can you talk about who Donald Trump is?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Well, Donald Trump is not at all who people think he is, and I’m very surprised that conservatives are embracing him. For example, Donald’s most famous building, the Trump Tower, instead of building it as a steel girder building, he chose to build it out of concrete, a 58-story—he says 68 stories—a 58-story concrete building built by a company called A&S [S&A Concrete] construction. And who owned [S&A] construction? "Fat Tony" Salerno, the head of the Genovese crime family in New York, and Paul Gambino—I’m sorry, Paul Castellano, the head of the Gambino family. Trump used the same company for other projects that he built, even though they were more costly than using steel girder construction.
When he tore down the Bonwit Teller building to make way for the Trump Tower, he had about a dozen union house wreckers on the site and about 150 Polish workers, all of them illegally in the country, who he paid $4 to $5 an hour and who did not have hard hats. And Trump claimed in a lawsuit that he had no idea that these workers were there in any way other than an appropriate way. And a federal judge mocked him, pointing out that they were easy to spot because they were the ones who had no hard hats.
Donald’s personal helicopter pilot, Joseph Weichselbaum, was a convicted major cocaine and marijuana trafficker whose criminal case landed before, of all people, Judge Maryanne Trump Barry, Donald Trump’s sister. Now, Judge Barry recused herself, but she also, in the process, made every other judge in the federal system aware of the sensitivity of this particular case.
And in addition, Donald Trump has been found in the past repeatedly to have not paid people he owed money to. It is a standard business practice of his. He has let people think that he fixed Wollman Rink in Central Park for free. He was paid $10 million, but some of his contractors were never paid, because he told them this was a public service project. And he’s been sued innumerable times for racial discrimination of his businesses. He’s been found to have engaged in racial discrimination. He’s not at all who he appears to be.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, and, David Cay Johnston, you also note that he’s not even a billionaire, as he so often claims, that in some years he hasn’t—
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Well, he wasn’t one in—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: In some years, he hasn’t even paid taxes.
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: He wasn’t one in 1990. Yeah, in 1990, when I revealed that—he claimed he was worth $3 billion back then, and I got a hold of his banker’s net worth statement that showed he was worth negative-$295 million, and as—I was at _The Philadelphia Inquirer then. We ran across the top of the front page, "You are Probably Worth More Than Donald Trump." I think the record now is pretty clear. He’s probably worth a billion or somewhat more than a billion, but nowhere near $10 billion.
But important to that is that Donald, in all likelihood, despite claiming a $400 million annual income, probably doesn’t pay any income taxes, because there’s a special provision in federal tax law that if you’re a real estate developer or operator, and your losses, your paper losses for the depreciating value of your buildings, which are really going up in value, exceed your other income, you can live tax-free. And I have three years of Donald’s tax returns from the late ’70s, early ’80s that show large negative income and no federal income tax.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And you’ve challenged him to release his taxes?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Oh, yeah. I think the likelihood that Donald will release his tax returns, even if he’s the Republican nominee, is extraordinarily small. I mean, look how hard Mitt Romney, who benefited from another provision of the tax code that would have allowed him to live tax-free or virtually tax-free as the sole owner of Bain Capital management, fought to only release two years of his tax data, even though his father set the standard at 16 years.
AMY GOODMAN: We were just talking, David Cay Johnston, about his wanting to change the Constitution to end birthright citizenship. Your thoughts?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Well, the racist right in this country has proposed repeal of the 14th Amendment for a long time. You haven’t heard about it in the mainstream news, because it seems a crazy, fringe idea. I noticed Lindsey Graham—you ran a tape of him saying, "We have evidence of people coming here to have their babies." I’ve asked several politicians over the last few years, you know, "What evidence? You know, point me to people." Well, you don’t get anything from these folks. But let’s assume that it’s true, somewhat true. Why would we amend the Constitution and take away a right, a right we fought a war over, in which over 600,000 people, about 38,000 of them black Americans, fought, to take away this constitutional right that has been now unquestioned in the law for more than a century and a half?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And among the questions you raise, there’s also about Trump’s operations in Atlantic City, with his casinos there and his questionable relationships with possibly other mob figures in Atlantic City. Could you talk about that?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Sure. Well, Donald never had a dollar invested in Atlantic City. And by his own account in The Art of the Deal, he brags about deceiving his partners, the directors of the old Holiday Inn motel company, who owned Harrah’s casinos. And he boasts about tricking them and deceiving them. He needed to buy a particular piece of land. And Donald always says he’s such a great negotiator. So who did he send to negotiate with the representative of Nicky Scarfo, the head of the Atlantic City crime family? Well, he sent his lawyer, Harvey Freeman. He didn’t go himself. And I think that’s consistent with Donald having so assiduously avoided the draft. Donald is not a guy to put himself in any position that he thinks might represent any kind of physical danger to him whatsoever.
AMY GOODMAN: David Cay Johnston, you also talk about how he discusses his experience as a manager allowing him to run the federal government far better than President Obama or Hillary Clinton. Can you talk about that?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Oh, yes. Well, you know, Fortune magazine does these analyses of who’s a good employer. Wegmans supermarkets, where I am here in Rochester, New York, is often cited as a really good employer, and with good reason. So they looked at 496 major companies, and Trump’s casino company was at the bottom or almost at the bottom in terms of management competence, how it treated its workers, its return to its investors—every metric they had, near the bottom. Donald is not a manager. He is a dealmaker.
And the principal elements of Trump deals are these: You borrow a lot of money. You then arrange later to pay back less than you owed, whether you do it through private transactions, by threatening to go to bankruptcy court, or actual bankruptcy, in the case of his casino company. You don’t pay people who work for you or vendors what’s promised.
And what I don’t understand, Amy, is not one major news organization has even tried to check these things out. I got one phone call from The Washington Post about this piece, "21 Questions for Donald Trump." Nothing has appeared. And that’s because, in this country, politics reporters cover the horse race, and they do not vet the candidates the way they should. And Trump, if vetted properly, would quickly disappear from the polls.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And does that go to explain why he continues to rise in the polls among Republican voters despite this incredible record of all these years?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Well, I think—see, I don’t think people know about his actual record. He is appealing to the worst instincts in us. He is appealing to racial instincts. And, you know, let’s recognize that, well, in polite society, you can’t say, "I don’t want to sit next to a black person or a brown person or an Asian person on the airplane or in a restaurant or at work." You can’t say that. And so, there’s an undercurrent of people who hate that. They want to live in a white society. They want to imagine this is a Christian country, even though the Constitution expressly in Article VI makes clear it’s not a religious country in any way. And Donald has provided a way for those people who harbor these bad thoughts, I would argue, they harbor these inhumane thoughts, to channel them through him.
And they are so enamored of this, they ignore the fact that he is proposing to create a massive police state, to round up people, to have a—we were required to have adjudicatory hearings, although Donald likes to think he would be dictator—and spend enormous amounts of money on removing people from the country, including children born here who are citizens, and erecting a wall, which will do absolutely nothing to stop people coming here in an effort to find a better life. So, people who harbor these awful feelings and suffer from the social disease of white skin privilege just aren’t really thinking through what Donald is proposing, which is a massive new government program that’s totally contrary to the Republican promise of less government.
AMY GOODMAN: David Cay Johnston, we want to thank you for being with us, Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter, previously with The New York Times, now writing for Al Jazeera America as well as a contributing writer at Newsweek. We’ll link to your column on your "21 Questions for Donald Trump" at democracynow.org.
When Black Lives Matter Met Clinton: Activists Speak Out on Challenging Candidate over Crime Record
Black Lives Matter activists are back in the news after confronting Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail. Following a campaign event in New Hampshire, a group of Black Lives Matter activists from Massachusetts met with Clinton. What followed was a 16-minute conversation during which the activists pressed Clinton to address her support of the crime bill that her husband, former President Bill Clinton, signed into law in 1994. That legislation led to the largest increases in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history. Hillary Clinton had heavily lobbied lawmakers to pass the crime bill, which included $9.7 billion in prison funding and tougher sentencing provisions. We air excerpts and speak to the activists, Daunasia Yancey of Black Lives Matter Boston and Julius Jones of Black Lives Matter Worcester.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Black Lives Matter activists are back in the news after confronting Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail. Following a campaign event in New Hampshire, a group of Black Lives Matter activists from Massachusetts met with Clinton. What followed was a 16-minute conversation during which the activists pressed Clinton to address her support of the crime bill that her husband, former President Bill Clinton, signed into law in 1994. That legislation led to the largest increases in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history. Hillary Clinton had lobbied heavily lawmakers to pass the crime bill, which included $9.7 billion in prison funding and tougher sentencing provisions.
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking before the annual Women in Policing Conference in 1994, Hillary Clinton said, quote, "We need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. The 'three-strikes-and-you're-out’ for violent offenders has to be part of the plan. We need more prisons to keep violent offenders for as long as it takes to keep them off the streets," she said.
Well, in a moment, we’ll be joined by two of the Black Lives Matters activists who talked with Hillary Clinton last week. But first let’s talk—let’s turn to a part of their exchange. It begins with Daunasia Yancey of Black Lives Matter Boston.
DAUNASIA YANCEY: But your—you and your family have been personally and politically responsible for policies that have caused health and human services disasters in impoverished communities of color through the domestic and international war on drugs that you championed as first lady, senator and secretary of state. And so I just want to know how you feel about your role in that violence and how you plan to reverse it?
HILLARY CLINTON: Well, you know, I feel strongly, which is why I had this town hall today. And as, you know, the questions and the comments from people illustrated, there’s a lot of concern that we need to rethink and redo what we did in response to a different set of problems. And, you know, in life, in politics, in government—you name it—you’ve got to constantly be asking yourself, "Is this working? Is it not? And if it’s not, what do we do better?" And that’s what I’m trying to do now on drugs, on mass incarceration, on police behavior and criminal justice reform, because I do think that there was a different set of concerns back in the '80s and the early ’90s. And now I believe we have to look at the world as it is today and try and figure out what will work now. And that's what I’m trying to figure out. That’s what I intend to do as president.
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Yeah, and I would offer that it didn’t work then, either, and that those policies were actually extensions of white supremacist violence against communities of color. And so, I just think I want to hear a little bit about that, about the fact that actually while—
HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I’m not sure—yeah.
DAUNASIA YANCEY: —those policies were being enacted, they were ripping apart families—
HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah.
DAUNASIA YANCEY: —and actually causing death.
HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah, I’m not sure I agree with you. I’m not sure I disagree that any kind of government action often has consequences. And certainly, the war on drugs, which, you know, started back in the '80s—right?—has had consequences. Increasing penalties for crime and "three strikes and you're out" and all of those kinds of actions have had consequences. But it’s important to remember—and I certainly remember—that there was a very serious crime wave that was impacting primarily communities of color and poor people.
AMY GOODMAN: Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton responding to a question posed by Daunasia Yancey of Black Lives Matter Boston after a campaign event in New Hampshire last week. Well, Daunasia joins us now here in New York along with Julius Jones of Black Lives Matter Worcester, who also questioned Clinton about her criminal justice record.
Welcome to Democracy Now! In a moment, we’re going to play a longer part of the encounter you both had. But, Daunasia, explain the scene. How did you meet up with Hillary Clinton? You—unlike other Black Lives Matter moments in presidential campaign history of the last few months where people interrupted public events, you were actually brought to her privately?
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Yes. We went to New Hampshire with the intention of confronting Hillary Clinton in the public forum. There was a forum she was hosting on substance abuse. Unfortunately, when we got there, we were told that we couldn’t come inside. But Dan Merica actually recognized me and started—
AMY GOODMAN: Because it was crowded, you—
DAUNASIA YANCEY: That’s the reason that we were given, was capacity. And so, he was tweeting that we weren’t able to get in, and then someone came out.
AMY GOODMAN: This is a reporter from CNN?
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Yes. And so, someone came out and invited us into an overflow room, where we could actually watch the forum. And then, one of her staffers came in and said, you know, "We could offer you a couple of minutes with her." And we said, "Absolutely," so that we could ask her the questions that we had.
AMY GOODMAN: And did she know you were filming her?
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Yes.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And were you surprised that the conversation, Julius, lasted as long as it did?
JULIUS JONES: Yeah, it was actually kind of shocking. I think—I think she was taking the opportunity to give us enough time and space to satisfy the concerns of—that were raised by us not being let in. It felt as if, you know, it was strategic on the campaign’s part, and it was probably pretty smart that they didn’t let the story get out that we were shut out of the meeting. But I think what—I think the direction that the conversation went in was probably unexpected by her and the campaign. And it was a very candid, open and honest and frank Hillary Clinton, too.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, talk about, Daunasia, before we go into the question, the next question that Julius asks, what you—the issues you were raising in this first encounter with her that we just played.
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Well, we wanted to hear from her a personal reflection on her participation in promoting policies through the war on drugs that have increased our mass incarceration situation that we’re in today, that Hillary Clinton and the Clintons hold a unique space in our country’s politics. And so, to be at a—having a forum on substance abuse and to not recognize her own role in not—you know, in the war on drugs, that has actually been a war on drug users, we felt like we really needed to hold her accountable to that history.
AMY GOODMAN: And in what capacity was she responsible? Talk about her history, how you hold her responsible.
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Well, she advocated for, as FLOTUS and as senator, for policies that have increased the penalties for minor drug offenses and things like that. Back in '94, there was $17 billion divested from HUD, from public housing, and $19 billion put into prison construction. And so, with situations like that, that we've seen her publicly support, we really wanted to hear from her what has changed in her that she would not continue to promote practices like that.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And how do you respond to folks who say that, well, the Black Lives Matter now has been confronting several Democratic candidates, but the Republican candidates, of which there are many more, have largely been so far unscathed on the question of answering their policy issues in terms of the black community and of police violence and on mass incarceration?
DAUNASIA YANCEY: Yeah. But, well, every presidential candidate should expect to hear from us and expect to be held accountable. It’s actually a practice called "power mapping," where it’s similar to lobbying, where you actually map who’s closest to you on the issue and go to those folks first in order to force them to articulate their stance and then hold them accountable to it. So this movement is very strategic, and that’s what we’ve been doing.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to turn to the next part of the interaction. Talk about how long you had with her. There were campaign staffers around, is that right?
JULIUS JONES: Yeah, it was a—it was a room that was probably full of 20 people. There were five folks with us and 15 with her, and then the four or five people that you see on camera. There was probably another six on either side of the person who was filming. And it was—it was a decent amount of time. It was like 15 minutes. It felt like it—it felt like it lasted forever.
AMY GOODMAN: So this is Julius Jones questioning Hillary Clinton.
JULIUS JONES: The truth is that there’s an extremely long history of unfortunate government practices that don’t work, that particularly affect black people and black families. And until we, as a country, and then the person who’s in the seat that you seek, actually addresses the anti-blackness current that is America’s first drug—we’re in a meeting about drugs, right? America’s first drug is free black labor and turning black bodies into profit, and the mass incarceration system mirrors an awful lot like the prison plantation system. It’s a similar thread, right? And until someone takes that message and speaks that truth to white people in this country, so that we can actually take on anti-blackness as a founding problem in this country, I don’t believe that there is going to be a solution. ...
You know, I genuinely want to know—you and your family have been, in no uncertain way, partially responsible for this, more than most, right? Now, there may have been unintended consequences. But now that you understand the consequences, what in your heart has changed that’s going to change the direction in this country? Like, what in you—like, not your platform, not what you’re supposed to say—like, how do you actually feel that’s different than you did before? Like, what were the mistakes? And how can those mistakes that you made be lessons for all of America for a moment of reflection on how we treat black people in this country? ...
HILLARY CLINTON: Your analysis is totally fair. It’s historically fair. It’s psychologically fair. It’s economically fair. But you’re going to have to come together as a movement and say, "Here’s what we want done about it," because you can get lip service from as many white people as you can pack into Yankee Stadium and a million more like it, who are going to say, "Oh, we get it. We get it. We’re going to be nicer." OK? That’s not enough, at least in my book. That’s not how I see politics. So, the consciousness raising, the advocacy, the passion, the youth of your movement is so critical. But now all I’m suggesting is, even for us sinners, find some common ground on agendas that can make a difference right here and now in people’s lives. And that’s what I would love to, you know, have your thoughts about, because that’s what I’m trying to figure out how to do.
So, yeah, deal with mass incarceration. I don’t—it’s not just an economic issue, although I grant you some people see it like that. But it’s more than that. I think there is a sense like, you know, low-level offenders, disparity in treatment, we’ve got to do something about that. I think that a lot of the issues about housing and about job opportunities, Ban the Box, a lot of these things—let’s get an agenda that addresses as much of the problem as we can, because then you can be for something, in addition to getting people to have to admit that they’re part of a long history in our country of, you know, either, you know, proposing, supporting, condoning discrimination, segregation, etc. Now, what do we do next? And that’s—that’s what I’m trying to figure out in my campaign, so that’s what I’m doing.
HANDLER: Madam Secretary, we do have to go. Thank you.
JULIUS JONES: Respectfully, the piece that’s most important—and I stand here in your space, and I say this as respectfully as I can—but if you don’t tell black people what we need to do, then we won’t tell you all what you need to do. Right?
HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you; I’m just telling you to tell me.
JULIUS JONES: What I mean to say is that this is, and has always been, a white problem of violence. It’s not—there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.
HILLARY CLINTON: Well, if that is the—
JULIUS JONES: And it’s a conversation and a pushback.
HILLARY CLINTON: OK, I understand. I understand what you’re saying.
JULIUS JONES: And then, we are also, respectfully, respectfully—
HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah, well, respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with a very real problem.
JULIUS JONES: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean.
HILLARY CLINTON: Well—
JULIUS JONES: But like, what I’m saying is you—what you just said was a form of victim blaming. Right? You were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement—
HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah.
JULIUS JONES: —needs to do to change white hearts is to come up with a policy change.
HILLARY CLINTON: No, I’m not talking about—look, I don’t believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You’re not going to change every heart. You’re not. But at the end of the day, we can do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them to live up to their own God-given potential, to live safely without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future. So, we can do it one of many ways. You know, you can keep the movement going, which you have started, and through it you may actually change some hearts. But if that’s all that happens, we’ll be back here in 10 years having the same conversation.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Julius Jones speaking with Hillary Clinton, and Daunasia Yancey, as well, of the Black Lives Matter movement, Boston and Worcester. They went up to Keene, New Hampshire. She was holding a forum on substance abuse. And they were actually brought to her backstage afterwards. Were you satisfied, Julius, with her answer to you?
JULIUS JONES: I think we got to her in a way that made it feel like the trip was worth it. The content of the answer, I was not satisfied with, because Hillary Clinton gave an answer that I might expect in a normal conversation that I have with your everyday liberal person who is ducking their personal responsibility and just trying to focus on the solution. And that’s something that I expect in everyday conversation when I engage with people on this idea. But when it comes to Hillary Clinton and the Clintons, in general, they not only occupy a unique space in how they feel, but they are directly responsible for the greatest increase in the prison population under any president. And for her to be confronted with this idea and then immediately say that the movement needs to solve this problem, and then, in the backdrop, what she’s not saying is—what would be in parentheses would be that I created, like the problem that the Clintons created, and perpetuated this long, droning history of anti-blackness in the United States. And her visceral reaction, I think, was indicative of how she felt, and I think it was indicative of how, perhaps in her own racial introspection, it was the first time that it had really occurred to her like that, because it was like—it was a very emotional reaction, more emotion than I think we’ve seen in Hillary.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, I think it’s one of the more candid moments in the presidential campaign so far of any of the candidates, to get her to have to respond off her regular message or her prepared notes and have to have an interchange and a back-and-forth on a subject that she clearly did not relish having, but was also clearly affected or listening to what you had to say. So, you know, I congratulate you for being able to raise those issues, and also, thankfully, that there was a video to let other people see what actually happened.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back and get your comment on the other times that Black Lives Matter have engaged with the Democratic presidential candidates. Earlier this month, two Black Lives Matter activists, Marissa Johnson and Mara Williford, shut down an appearance in Seattle by presidential candidate, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Thank you, Seattle, for being one of the most progressive cities in the United States of America!
MARA WILLIFORD: If you do not listen to her, your event will be shut down right now. Right now.
AMY GOODMAN: After some negotiation amidst a chorus of boos from the crowd, Marissa Johnson addressed the crowd and held a four-and-a-half-minute moment of silence for Michael Brown, one minute for each hour he lay on the street in Ferguson after being gunned down by a police officer August 9, 2014, just over a year ago. Johnson then referenced the confrontation that Black Lives Matter activists had with Sanders and another Democratic presidential candidate, former Maryland Governor Martin O’Malley, earlier this summer at the Netroots Nation conference in Phoenix.
MARISSA JOHNSON: If you believe that black lives matter, as you say you do, then you will join us now in holding Bernie Sanders accountable specifically for his actions. Bernie, you were confronted—you were confronted at Netroots by black women who said black lives matter, and you have yet to apologize or put out a criminal justice reform package like O’Malley did.
AMY GOODMAN: Senator Sanders appeared on Meet the Press Sunday and spoke to reports that his campaign has apologized for taking so long to reach out to Black Lives Matter activists.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, that was sent out by a staffer, not by me. Look, we are reaching out to all kinds of groups, absolutely. I met with folks at Black Lives Matter. We’re reaching out to Latino groups. We’re reaching out to the unions. We’re fighting to expand Social Security. And we’re reaching out to senior groups. We’re reaching out to healthcare groups, because we believe that everybody in America is entitled to healthcare. We’re reaching out to everybody. But on this issue of Black Lives Matter, let me be very clear: The issue that they are raising is a very, very important issue. There’s no candidate for president who will be stronger in fighting against institutional racism and, by the way, reforming a broken criminal justice system. Chuck, we have more people in jail in the United States of America than any other country on Earth. And we need real changes. We need to do away with the militarization of local police departments. We need to do away with minimum sentencing. We need education and jobs for our young people, rather than jails and incarceration.
CHUCK TODD: I understand that, but you said a staffer put it out. But an—you felt an apology was necessary?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: No, I don’t. I think we’re going to be working with all groups. This was sent out without my knowledge.
CHUCK TODD: Fair enough.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Chuck Todd of Meet the Press speaking with Senator Sanders. Julius Jones, your response to Sanders, the interruptions and the questioning of him? Do you feel he has responded adequately?
JULIUS JONES: I feel like his addition of racial justice to his platform has been a good step in the right direction. What he’s asked folks to do is to be patient with him and to trust that he will be the best candidate to advance this type of agenda. And I think that even he, who is arguably on the cutting edge of this issue, does not understand the emergency, the urgency that we’re in, in the struggle, because it’s not just an item on a long list of agendas in the United States for most of us. It’s our families being devastated, in the slow form, through poverty, the loaded gun that is poverty, that the black community has had. It’s faster in the prison, like with families who are broken up by their family members being in prison. And then it’s the rapid, violent version in police brutality. Last time I checked, The Counted project, who’s keeping track of police murders, police killings in the United States, it’s up to 731. It’s on pace to topple a thousand. And proportionately, it’s disproportionately against black people. We have live statistics that are showing the urgency of this, unlike ever before. And Bernie Sanders is not treating it justly.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I wanted to finish on—we’ve been talking but the presidential candidates. What about the sitting president and his changes in the last year or two in addressing some of the issues of mass incarceration and an unjust justice system? What do you think about his policies?
DAUNASIA YANCEY: I think that he needs to be held just as accountable as anyone seeking or in this office. Right? And so, right now we are focused on this presidential race, but, absolutely, folks have raised that concern, and I think that he doesn’t get off, either. No president of the United States has ever stood for black lives in a strong and effective way, because, I mean, we’re in the situation that we’re in now, right?
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, how you ended up founding a Black Lives Matter chapter in Boston, and you, Julius, representing Black Lives Matter in Worcester, Massachusetts?
DAUNASIA YANCEY: It was through the Black Lives Matter ride to Ferguson last year in August of 2014. Mike Brown was killed on August 9th, and we were down in Ferguson by August 29th. And we were down there to support the community, to raise the issue and to bring strategy back home. So that’s what we did in founding the chapter in Boston.
AMY GOODMAN: And Julius?
JULIUS JONES: Yes, in Worcester, I went to Ferguson a little bit before the nationwide call, and then, many months later, I was doing some organizing work in Worcester with a wonderful group and decided to attempt to bring the national energy of BLM to Worcester.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we thank you so much for being with us, Daunasia Yancey and Julius Jones, activists with Black Lives Matter. You can go to our website, especially for radio listeners, and you can see the interaction between the Black Lives Matter activists in New Hampshire with Hillary Clinton.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we look at Donald Trump, and particularly his taking on birthright—the issue of birthright—should the Constitution be changed?—and how he’s affecting other presidential candidates. Stay with us.
"Privileged Bloodlines": Is Trump's Stance Against Birthright Citizenship Setting Tone for GOP?
upport is growing among Republican presidential candidates to repeal part of the 14th Amendment that guarantees people born on American soil are automatically American citizens. In his plan for immigration reform, Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump singles out birthright citizenship as the single "biggest magnet for illegal immigration." And Donald Trump is not alone. Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham all support ending birthright citizenship. We speak to Ian Millhiser of Center for American Progress who recently wrote a piece headlined "Donald Trump’s First Policy Plan is Even More Racist Than You Think It Is."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Support is growing among Republican presidential candidates to repeal part of the 14th Amendment that guarantees people born on American soil are automatically U.S. citizens. In his plan for immigration reform, Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump singles out birthright citizenship as the single, quote, "biggest magnet for illegal immigration." Speaking to NBC’s Chuck Todd on his private plane, Trump said the United States has no choice but to get rid of birthright citizenship.
CHUCK TODD: You want to get rid of birthright citizenship?
DONALD TRUMP: You have to get rid of it, yes. You have to. What they’re doing, they’re having a baby, and all of a sudden, nobody knows. The baby’s here.
CHUCK TODD: You believe that—
DONALD TRUMP: You have no choice.
CHUCK TODD: You believe that they’re trying to do this—
DONALD TRUMP: You have no choice.
CHUCK TODD: —when they’re coming here.
DONALD TRUMP: Let me tell you, when we have some good people—we have some very good people here. We have a lot of really good people. They’re illegal. You either have a country or not. We go out—
CHUCK TODD: You’d get rid of birthright citizenship.
DONALD TRUMP: And we’re going to try and bring them back rapidly, the good ones.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Donald Trump. But he’s not alone. Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Lindsey Graham, these presidential Republican candidates all support ending birthright citizenship.
Joining us from Washington, D.C., is Ian Millhiser, senior fellow at the Center for American Progress Action Fund and the editor of ThinkProgress Justice. He’s the author of the book, Injustices: The Supreme Court’s History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted. He recently wrote a piece headlined "Donald Trump’s First Policy Plan is Even More Racist Than You Think It Is."
Ian, explain.
IAN MILLHISER: Sure. So, this idea of eliminating birthright citizenship, this goes back to the worst Supreme Court decision in American history, the Dred Scott decision. Dred Scott said that people’s citizenship is something that essentially is a hereditary right. It flows from people who are the sort of people who were citizens at the founding, and if you have the right bloodline, then you get to be a citizen. If you don’t have the right bloodline—and what they meant in Dred Scott was the descendants of African slaves—then you don’t get to be a citizen. Donald Trump wants to bring this notion of tainted bloodlines back. Now, here he’s not talking about the descendants of African slaves; he’s talking about the descendants of undocumented immigrants. But it’s the same offensive notion that drove that Dred Scott decision, that citizenship is something that comes only to people with privileged blood, that—that is driving this proposal.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: So, in other words, Trump’s immigration plan, he wants—he’s in favor of family reunification by deporting everyone—the parents, the grown—
IAN MILLHISER: Right.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: —the grown youths, the babies—by removing their birthright citizenship, as well.
IAN MILLHISER: That’s right. I mean, it’s a hugely cruel plan. You know, he wants mass deportation. I’ve seen estimates as much a $600 billion worth of deportations he’s pushing. He wants—one way that he said—I mean, there are so many cruelties latent in this proposal. One thing that he wants to do is to get rid of remittances, where families come over to the United States, or part of a family comes over to the United States, they work, and then they send money back to their abysmally poor families in the nation they came from. He wants to get rid of that. So, you know, his idea here is to hold families together in abject poverty and then, of course, to keep them from being able to be in the United States while they’re suffering through that poverty.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to another aspect of Donald Trump’s immigration plan. He told NBC’s Chuck Todd the executive order on the DREAM Act would be rescinded under his presidency, as well.
CHUCK TODD: What do you do about the DACA order now, where you’ve had this [inaudible] the DREAM Act, however you want to refer to it, the executive order that the president—that is—that is—
DONALD TRUMP: The executive order gets rescinded. One good thing about—
CHUCK TODD: You’ll rescind—you’ll rescind that one, too?
DONALD TRUMP: One good thing about—
CHUCK TODD: You’ll rescind the DREAM Act executive order, the DACA?
DONALD TRUMP: We’re going to have to. We have to make a whole new set of standards. And when people come in, they have to come in with
CHUCK TODD: So you’re going to split up families? You’re going to deport children?
DONALD TRUMP: Chuck, Chuck, no, no. We’re going to keep the families together. We have to keep the families together, but they have to go.
CHUCK TODD: But you’re going to keep them together out.
DONALD TRUMP: But they have to go.
CHUCK TODD: What if they have no place to go?
DONALD TRUMP: We will work with them. They have to go. Chuck, we either have a country, or we don’t have a country.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Donald Trump speaking to Chuck Todd. That’s right, keep immigrant families together, deport them all. Well, shortly after Donald Trump released his immigration reform proposal, Republican presidential candidate Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker also came out in support of changing the Constitution, rescinding birthright citizenship, during an MSNBC interview with Kasie Hunt.
KASIE HUNT: Do you think that birthright citizenship should be ended?
GOV. SCOTT WALKER: Well, like I said, Harry Reid said it’s not right for this country. I think that’s something we should—yeah, absolutely, going forward, I think.
KASIE HUNT: You should end—we should end birthright citizenship?
GOV. SCOTT WALKER: Yeah, to me, it’s about enforcing the laws in this country. And, you know, I’ve made it very clear: I think you enforce the laws, and I think it’s important to send a message that we’re going to enforce the laws. No matter how people come here, we’re need to uphold the law in this country.
KASIE HUNT: And you should deport the children of undocumented immigrants who are not citizens?
GOV. SCOTT WALKER: I didn’t say that. I said you need to enforce the law, which, to me, is focusing on E-Verify.
AMY GOODMAN: And on Monday, Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, another Republican presidential hopeful, also came out in support of ending birthright citizenship. But in an interview with CNN, he criticized Donald Trump’s immigration plan as "gibberish" and "nonsensical," and said it would kill the Republican Party.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I think it’s a bad practice to give citizenship based on birth. We have evidence of people buying tourist visas for the express purpose of coming over here, having a child. It’s birth tourism. I don’t think that’s a good idea. But that’s not going to happen until we fix a broken immigration system. Donald Trump’s eight-page plan is absolute gibberish.
AMY GOODMAN: So, there you have Lindsey Graham, you have Governor Walker. You have Donald Trump setting the agenda. Ian Millhiser?
IAN MILLHISER: Right. I mean, let’s be clear: Birthright citizenship is something that’s been in the Constitution for 150 years. This was put in there after the Civil War. So the idea that we—that it’s created some sort of crisis—you know, if it has created a crisis, then you have to believe that we have been in a state of crisis for 150 years. It’s just not a tenable position. It’s certainly true, though, that, you know, when Donald Trump entered the race, we thought he was a clown show. You know, we thought he was the comic relief in this race. And what has happened instead is that the reality TV show host is driving much of the Republican Party’s policy here. You know, you see all these people, sitting senators, sitting governors, who are supposed to be the serious folks, lining up behind this racist, ridiculous policy to eliminate something that’s been in our Constitution for 150 years.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, and, Ian, what does this do to the Republican brand among the voters, given the fact that now immigration, which was—became an albatross, the issue around Republican candidates in the last presidential election, is now becoming such a major topic of discussion among these candidates?
IAN MILLHISER: Right. I mean, I think, ultimately, that’s up to the voters. I mean, I have a good friend who’s a DACA recipient, and I want her to be able to continue to work and to continue to live in this country. So, it would hurt me if Donald Trump got his way. There are a lot of families who would be even more hurt if they discovered that their brothers, their sisters, their children, their parents were going to be deported by this policy. So I hope that voters are going to look at this, and many of them are going to recoil, because they’re going to realize what’s going to happen to them, their friends and their families if these policies go into effect. But ultimately, you know, this election is always going to come down to turnout. And it depends upon whether voters look at these policies, that aren’t just Trump’s policies now, that are fast becoming the policies of the Republican Party, and say, you know, "I need to make sure that I turn out at the polls and I have my say in what’s going to happen here."
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, speaking to CBS on Tuesday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush dismissed Trump’s immigration proposal, saying that birthright citizenship was a constitutional right.
JEB BUSH: That’s a constitutional right. And Mr. Trump can say that he’s for this, because people are frustrated that it’s abused. And we ought to fix the problem rather than take away rights that are constitutionally endowed.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Ian, Jeb Bush here separating himself from the pack?
IAN MILLHISER: Somewhat. I mean, you know, Jeb did take a slightly more moderate position, although if you read his whole statement, what he essentially said is, "Look, amending the Constitution is too hard." At one point he said that if he had a magic wand, there’s 10 different things he’d do to change the Constitution. But because it’s too hard to amend it, he instead wants to look for ways to crack down on immigration that he can do without amending the Constitution. So, you know, I think that Jeb’s bringing more of a practical lens in the sense that he’s saying, "Look, like, this is a very difficult way to go about our shared goal of making life more difficult for immigrants." But it doesn’t change the fact that his goal and, you know, what he said throughout that is: "Here are all of these other ways that I want to crack down on immigration."
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Ian Millhiser, we want to thank you for being with us, senior fellow at the Center for American Progress Action Fund, editor of ThinkProgress Justice. His book, Injustices: The Supreme Court’s History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted. When we come back, we’ll be joined by the two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning former New York Times reporter David Cay Johnston. He’s got 21 questions for Donald Trump. Stay with us.
Headlines:
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Leading Islamic Scholars Release Broad Declaration on Climate Change
The world’s leading Islamic scholars have released a sweeping declaration on climate change. It calls on world leaders meeting in Paris later this year to commit to a 100 percent zero-emissions strategy and to invest in decentralized renewable energy in order to reduce poverty and the catastrophic impacts of climate change. This declaration comes on the heels of the publication of Pope Francis’s encyclical on the environment earlier this year, which also calls for sweeping action on climate change. Like the encyclical, this declaration, endorsed by more than 60 leading Islamic scholars, links climate change to the economic system, stating: "We recognize the corruption that humans have caused on the Earth due to our relentless pursuit of economic growth and consumption."
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Hillary Clinton Dogged by Reporters over Private Email Server
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton continues to be dogged by the issue of the private email server she used while she was secretary of state. At a campaign event in Las Vegas Tuesday, reporters repeatedly pressed Clinton about the issue, causing her to end abruptly the news conference. The Justice Department is currently investigating whether any classified email was handled improperly.
Syria: ISIL Executes Antiquities Expert in Ancient City of Palmyra
In Syria, the self-proclaimed Islamic State has executed an antiquities expert in the ancient city of Palmyra. ISIL captured Palmyra, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, in May. On Tuesday, militants reportedly beheaded Khaled Assad, who spent more than 50 years working to preserve Palmyra, and hung his body on a column in the ancient city.
Amnesty: Both Sides in Yemen Show "Wanton Disregard" for Civilians
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Texas: Guatemalan LGBT Activist Receives Stay of Deportation
In news from Texas, a Guatemalan LGBT activist who has been taking sanctuary in a church in Austin since June has been granted a stay of deportation by authorities. Sulma Franco has sought asylum in the United States because LGBT activists face high levels of violence in Guatemala. But activists say her application was denied based on a "clerical error." On Tuesday, authorities stayed her deportation for one year.
Guatemala: Leading Presidential Candidate Blasts Donald Trump
Meanwhile, in Guatemala, leading presidential candidate Manuel Baldizón has criticized Donald Trump for his comments calling Mexican immigrants rapists, and called on the Latino community to reject "humiliation."
Manuel Baldizón: "(This rhetoric) is a political strategy Mr. Trump is using. However, in my view, I’m completely against these kinds of actions that hurt Hispanics. It’s important that we Hispanics are clear that we can’t be accepting of such humiliation or negative blows against our culture and dignity."
We’ll have more on Trump’s comments later in the broadcast.
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New Jersey Senator Robert Menendez says he will oppose the Iran nuclear deal. His announcement comes two weeks after New York Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer said he will also oppose the deal. Menendez is a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He said Tuesday he would not put his name on the deal because it does not require Iran to dismantle its entire nuclear infrastructure.
Sen. Robert Menendez: "I have looked into my own soul, and my devotion to principle may once again lead me to an unpopular course. But if Iran is to acquire a nuclear bomb, it will not have my name on it. It is for these reasons that I will vote to disapprove the agreement and, if called upon, would vote to override a veto."
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Video of SF Police Pinning Down Disabled Black Man Goes Viral
And in news from California, a video of police officers pinning down a disabled African-American man has gone viral. The video shows San Francisco police kneeling on the man’s prosthetic leg. Police say they received a 911 call about a man "waving sticks around," and restrained him after he refused to drop the sticks and walked into traffic. But the "sticks" were apparently actually the man’s crutches. The man repeatedly asks for the crutches back, saying, "I use these to walk." The video shows onlookers pleading with police to stop pressing on the man’s prosthetic leg.
Onlooker: "What are you doing? Oh, my god! Wait, you’re on his prosthetic leg? You’re on his prosthetic leg! You’re on his prosthetic leg! Stop! Stop!"
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