Missionary Renegade: Democracy Now! Daily Digest: A Daily Independent Global News Hour with Amy Goodman & Juan González for Tuesday, November 17, 2015

Democracy Now! Daily Digest: A Daily Independent Global News Hour with Amy Goodman & Juan González for Tuesday, November 17, 2015
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There is No Military Solution: Could ISIL Be Strengthened by U.S., French, Russian Bombing?

France and Russia have staged a series of new airstrikes on the Syrian city of Raqqa, the de facto capital of the self-proclaimed Islamic State. Russia announced earlier today it would intensify strikes in Syria after the Russian intelligence service said it had found conclusive proof that a bomb had brought down the Metrojet airliner in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, killing 224 people on board last month. The United States has also vowed to intensify strikes in Syria and to step up their exchange of intelligence on potential targets with France. We speak with longtime journalist Abdel Bari Atwan about how the bombings could backfire and help grow the Islamic State.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: France and Russia have staged a series of new airstrikes on the Syrian city of Raqqa, the de facto capital of the self-proclaimed Islamic State, or Daesh. Russia announced earlier today it would intensify strikes in Syria after Russian intelligence service said they had found conclusive proof that a bomb had brought down the Metrojet airliner in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, killing all 224 people on board last month. Meanwhile, French President François Hollande vowed to step up attacks in Syria following Friday’s attacks in Paris that killed 129 people.

PRESIDENT FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: [translated] The need to destroy Islamic State is an issue that faces the whole of the international community. I have therefore asked the Security Council to hold a meeting as quickly as possible to adopt a resolution to mark this goal shared by all to fight against terrorism.

AMY GOODMAN: Earlier today, Secretary of State John Kerry traveled to Paris to meet Hollande one day after President Obama announced the U.S. and France have agreed to step up their exchange of intelligence on potential targets. France also has invoked the European Union’s mutual assistance clause for the first time, asking its partners for military help and other aid in missions in the Middle East and Africa after the Paris attacks.

Overnight, French police conducted 128 searches. France is currently in a state of emergency, which allows authorities to search homes any time without court approval. Hollande is seeking to extend the state of emergency for three months.

A massive manhunt is still underway for Salah Abdeslam, a prime suspect in the Paris attacks. He’s a Belgian-born French national. French authorities have also identified Abdel-Hamid Abu Oud as the possible mastermind of the attacks. He’s a Belgian of Moroccan origin believed to be in Syria.

While France, Russia and the United States bomb Syria, the United Nations is warning against escalating the regional war in the Middle East. Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein serves as the U.N. human rights commissioner.

ZEID RA’AD AL-HUSSEIN: This is a dark time, a time of great turmoil in the international—in the world of international relations. Paris bleeds. So, too, does Beirut and Aleppo and Sana’a and countless other cities. And it seems that the defenses against chaos and bloodshed that states erected at the close of the Second World War, the laws they wrote and swore to abide by, the agreements and treaties they signed, are giving way to increasingly unilateral action bound by no principle or any foresight.

AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about the Islamic State, also known as Daesh, we are joined by longtime Middle East journalist Abdel Bari Atwan in London. He served as editor-in-chief of the London-based daily Al-Quds al-Arabi for 25 years. He now edits the Rai al-Youm website. He is author of the new book, The Islamic State: The Digital Caliphate. He also recently wrote an article for Salon headlined "America Enabled Radical Islam: How the CIA, George W. Bush and Many Others Helped Create ISIS." He interviewed Osama bin Laden twice in the ’90s.

Abdel Bari Atwan, welcome to Democracy Now! Can you respond to the Paris attacks and then how Western countries are responding to those attacks?

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: Yes, Amy, it’s very nice to be with you again. I remember last time it was after 11th of September attacks. Here, we are talking after a Paris carnage which took place last Friday, Friday evening.

You know, what is happening now, the Islamic State is changing its strategy. Now they are adopting their savagery management phase. When I say that, in the beginning, they wanted to grab land, consolidate their grip on it and then expand. It seems, because of more than 7,000 air sortie against them, they decided to take revenge, to adopt the strategy of al-Qaeda, which they condemned in the beginning of their emergence. When I say to adopt the strategy of al-Qaeda, to export their terrorism to outside Middle East to the heart of Europe, to hit the industry, to hit the economy, to terrorize people, to take revenge from French, from United States, maybe Britain, who are bombarding their positions in Raqqa in Syria and also in Mosul and other parts in Iraq. So, this is their new strategy. It is not surprising, actually, that they are turning to this. It was expected.

And they are very, very organized in this field. You know, many people, they think those people are stupid—you know, sort of rusty beard, dirty beard, baggy trouser. No, they are not like that. You know, they are very, very intelligent. They are the remnant of Saddam Hussein security institutions, also the Republican Guards, the army. Those people, you know, when the army was dissolved, when the security organization were dissolved, the Republican Guards, they were dumped in the streets by Paul Bremer, the American ruler of Iraq, first ruler of Iraq. You know, they—actually, they were dumped, humiliated, frustrated. So, they were behind the establishment of this Islamic State.

Now, they move to the second stage, which is to take revenge. And that’s why we see this eight people, eight people, a very organized cell, to attack six positions, six places in Paris in the same time, the same night. It means they are lethal, they are dangerous. And this kind—these attacks is one of four attacks which took place by the Islamic State. The first thing was in Tunisia in a resort, where about 40 people were killed. And then, you know, this—the downing of the Russian tourism aircraft—224 people were killed—to destroy the tourism industry in Egypt and in Tunisia. Now they are attacking the tourism or the jewel of the crown of Europe, which is Paris, where $70 billion, actually, the revenue of the tourism industry for France. So they know what they are doing. They are adopting, as I said, the strategy of al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda attacked the World Trade Center. Here they are attacking the center of Europe, the capital of Europe, which is Paris. And that’s why it is devastating.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain the term "Daesh"? You see even, well, Secretary of State Kerry is continually now talking about ISIS as what he calls "Daesh." Explain what that term means.

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: To be honest, you know, I am really surprised when the French president used the word "Daesh." What it means, Daesh? In Arabic, it means Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. This is it. It is exactly. Now they shorten the name to Islamic State. So they don’t want to call it Islamic State. You know, I have been arguing, because my book is The Islamic State: The Digital Caliphate. I was really bombarded by a lot of criticism because I used the term "Islamic State." I said to them, "Look, if your name is Amy, shall I call you Carole, for example?" They named themselves the Islamic State, and there is Islamic Army, and there is Islamic Front. Why here, when it comes to this, you know, they want to change its name to Arabic name, which has the same meaning? It is really silly. And it’s—I’m really shocked by this. Its name is Islamic State. We have to call it Islamic State. Like with United States, we call it United States. So, we can’t say, "No, this is barbaric," America, for example, or this is barbaric to, you know, planet or whatever. So, this is—this is the problem. Daesh, in Arabic, it is a shortening of Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. That’s it, you know? So, many people in the Arab world, actually, they hide the sun, you know, by a little—what we call it, you know, just a little piece of cloth or something like that. And so, this—you can’t—you can’t actually deny them their name.

And you cannot actually avoid—you don’t defeat it by saying, "It is Daesh, it is not Islamic State." It is Islamic, and it is a state. When I say Islamic, they are adopting the worst interpretation of Islam, Wahhabism, which was originated in Najd in Saudi Arabia. And it is, you know, a state, because it has all the terminology, all actually the description of a state. They have an army, they have a police, they have an administration, they have a cabinet, they have their own currency, they have their own flag. They have 9 million or 10 million carrying their citizenship, whatever. They have their own border until now. And they are dealing with the neighboring countries. They are selling oil to Kurdistan, north of Iraq. They are selling oil to Turkey. They are selling oil even to Europe. So, people would say, "No, no, they are not a state." OK, good luck to you. But it is a state, and it is Islamic, whether we like it or not. You know, this is not a good beginning, actually. If you want to understand this state or this phenomena, this terrorist organization, this is not a good beginning. We have, actually, to be truthful. We have to be truthful to ourselves. We have to understand this phenomena, terrorism—

AMY GOODMAN: Abdel Bari—

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: —terrorist phenomena. We have to study it, and we have to fight it, not just, you know, say, "No, it’s Daesh," or not even to mention its name correctly. Yes, Amy?

AMY GOODMAN: Abdel Bari Atwan, the response since the Paris attacks—the U.S. bomb, the French are bombing Syria, the Russians are bombing Syria. Do you think a military response—how do you think a military response will affect ISIS?

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: Well, Amy, you know, the problem is—sorry—when we talk about military response, you know, military alone—military solution is not actually enough. To using military solution alone, it means we are prolonging the problem. We are strengthening the Islamic State. Seven thousand sorties until now by the American and their allies. What happened? You know, the Islamic State grown up. They managed to capture Ramadi in Iraq, which is their third biggest city, and they managed to capture Palmyra in Syria, which is another very well-known as—you know, of antiquities, of history and legacy. So, this is the problem. Security solution is not good enough. See what happened. You know, the American used, you know, military solution in Afghanistan. And now, after 14 years, they are talking to Taliban, to surrender power to Taliban. And they used to call Taliban as a terrorist organization. "We are not going to talk to them. We have to root them out." They did not root them out. The same thing in Libya. They said, "OK, Gaddafi is a bloody dictator." Yes, he is a bloody dictator. They remove them—they removed him. And what happened? Chaos, anarchy, the vacuum filled by al-Qaeda and filled by the Islamic State and other terrorist militias. So, this is the problem. You know, whenever there is military intervention, whenever there is American intervention in particular, there is failed states. We have more than five failed states in the Middle East. Who will fill the vacuum? The Islamic State. And that’s why they have branches in Egypt, in Sinai, they have branches in Afghanistan, branches in Pakistan, now in a very strong state in Syria. And they have also—could be soon in Palestine, the West Bank and Gaza. So, this is the problem. Military solution, intervention, military intervention, it is not actually the only way.

We have first—you know, Amy, if you’ll allow me, I’ll give you seven keywords, if you want to understand the Middle East and want to understand why this state is very strong and getting stronger and stronger.

First, humiliation. People are humiliated by the military intervention and by their own government, which is, you know, dictatorship.

Frustration. We have more than a hundred young people—a hundred million young people, at least, either full unemployed or partly employed. Those people are frustrated because there is no future.

The third word is marginalization. When the Americans invaded and occupied Iraq, you know, what happened? They marginalized the Sunni sect and gave advantage to the Shia sect, divided the country according to the sectarian life. So this marginalization created the incubator for the Islamic State in Iraq.

Military intervention. And I mentioned, when you intervene by military means in Arab countries, you create failed state.

The lack of—the fifth word is the lack of good governance. We don’t have good governance in the Middle East. Corrupt regimes. Look at the Saudi Arabia. Look at the Gulf region. Look at the other parts of the Arab world. It is corruption everywhere. There is no democracy. There is no human rights. There is no, actually—any transparency.

And then, the other word is underestimation. Underestimation—you know, when the Islamic State was growing in Iraq and Syria, we noticed it, and we said, "This is a very dangerous phenomena." I wrote a book, After Bin Laden: Al Qaeda, the Next Generation. I predicted this. I predicted, you know, more radical organization than al-Qaeda, than Osama bin Laden.

And then, the final word is the social media. You know, people are not listening to the mainstream media anymore as they used to be. And the Islamic State is manipulating this social media, the Internet, the Twitter, the Facebook, you know, the Snapchat, everything. And they are using it to their own advantages. They are—you know, Osama bin Laden was actually a poor man, an old man sitting in front of a camera recording a videotape and then begging Al Jazeera or CNN to broadcast it. Now they don’t need this. Just a press of a button, they reach millions of people. They have 100,000 tweets every day. They have 50,000 accounts on the Twitter. There are thousands, you know, maybe tens of thousands of pages on the Internet—or, on the Facebook.

So, they are very, very, very—that’s why, if you want to understand the Middle East, we have to put these seven words into consideration. We will have better idea, and definitely we will know how to fight this Islamic State, not by military means only, but also by other means, by ideological means, by social means, by economic means.

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Abdel Bari Atwan: Inside How the U.S. & Saudi Arabia Aided Growth of the Islamic State

Two days after the Paris attacks, President Obama met Saudi Arabia’s King Salman for a bilateral meeting at the G20 summit in Turkey on Sunday. The following day, the Pentagon revealed the U.S. State Department has approved the sale of $1.29 billion in smart bombs to Saudi Arabia for its attack on Yemen. We speak to Abdel Bari Atwan about how the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the Saudi funding of jihadist movements helped the Islamic State grow.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the role of Saudi Arabia? President Obama held a bilateral meeting with Saudi Arabia’s King Salman at the G20 summit in Turkey Sunday.

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: You know, Saudi Arabia is the origin of radicalism, Islamic radicalism, in the Middle East and the whole world and the whole Islamic world. Why? Because al-Qaeda ideology—sorry, Islamic State ideology is the same Wahhabi ideology which adopted by the Saudi kingdom. This is—you know, they go back to the time of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab in 1704, you know, so they are doing—doing exactly the same. They are doing in Syria and Iraq this brutality, this savagery, the Wahhabism of the Saudi regime in 1705 and ’06, when they actually invaded Karbala and Najaf. They committed the same massacres.

So, Saudi Arabia, actually, now, they are—they are, actually, with Qatar and with Turkey. They have some sort of alliance. And they started the problem in Syria. They poured billions in Syria, hoping to topple the Assad regime for personal revenge, not for political means, not for actually, you know, a strategic move from their side. They just want to take revenge, personal revenge, because Assad insulted them in a way or another, and also because they thought that they can topple him in a few weeks, few months maximum. So they poured billions of weapons. And also, they encouraged a hundred—sorry, tens of thousands of volunteers to go through Turkey to Syria to fight against the Assad regime.

This is—all this was happening while the West actually don’t understand. They were misled by Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Qatar. This is a fact. When I said they misled, because they did not actually manage to understand this phenomena. They underestimated the emergence of such a radical organization or a state like the Islamic State, which we are witnessing now. This is—this is the problem. Saudi Arabia, until now, they are saying, "We must topple Assad regime." You know, OK, topple Assad regime, you topple the Gaddafi regime, you topple the Ali Abdullah Saleh regime in Yemen. So what happened? Where is the plan B? Have you built—rebuilt Libya, for example? Did you set a good example in Iraq, in Libya, in Yemen, in Syria? What’s the plan after Assad, for example? Who will rule Syria? Is it going to be democracy? Or is it going to be like Libya? Is it going to be like Iraq, divided on the sectarian lines? This is the problem.

Yes, Saudi Arabia now, they managed to influence the American White House, the American position, because in your country—this is the problem. Now—you know, until now, the American policy in the Middle East is a complete shamble. You know, there is no policy, honestly. In six months ago, they said we should give the priority of rooting out the Islamic State. Said, "OK, great." And then, now, because of the Saudi-Turkish-Qatari influence, they said, "No, we have to actually—there is no future for Assad in the political process." Where is this political process? Has it started? Why didn’t it start, say, five years ago, when the problem started in Syria? Why we are waiting until now? You had five years to sort it out. You know, you did not sort it out.

AMY GOODMAN: It’s not only—

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: And then, when the Russians intervened in Syria to protect their man—

AMY GOODMAN: It is not only—

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: —now they are saying—sorry, yes?

AMY GOODMAN: It’s not only, Abdel Bari Atwan, that the U.S. is working with Saudi Arabia. I mean, they just sealed the largest weapons deal in history with Saudi Arabia.

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: Yes. Yeah, you are absolutely right. You know, it’s a history there. The problem is, you know, when they were feeding radicalism in the Islamic world, introducing the Wahhabism as the Puritan interpretation of Islam and sharia law, the West used to work with them. They worked with them in Afghanistan, and it was very clear. And what happened after that? They toppled the communist regime in Kabul, and then, you know, they left anarchy there, bloody anarchy, Arab—so-called Arab mujahideen. And al-Qaeda emerged. Now, you know, they intervene in Syria. What happened? The Islamic State emerged. They intervened in Iraq. The same thing, al-Qaeda again, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad organization emerged. So, usually, when there is uncalculated and underestimated intervention, actually, that’s what will happen in the Middle East. This is the problem.

AMY GOODMAN: How do you think the U.S.—

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: And we keep repeating the same mistakes, one after one. Yes?

AMY GOODMAN: How do you think the U.S. can put pressure on Saudi Arabia?

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: Oh, yes, they can. You know, they can. You know, President Obama was actually absolutely correct when he told to the Saudis, "Look, you know, we are not going to bomb Iran, you know, because you want us to bomb Iran. You know, OK, yeah, we can protect you from any Iranian danger. But, you know, your problem is your people. It is an internal problem. You have a population which is dissatisfied, those population completely marginalized. You know, those people are unemployed, and they have no future. They don’t have any role in actually determining their future." So, this is—this is the problem. There are huge problems inside.

The United States can put pressure on Saudi Arabia, and they can put pressure on Qatar, and they can put pressure on Turkey and say, "Look, listen, you know, we can’t actually, you know, to continue argument with which is first, the chicken or the egg? The Islamic State or Assad regime?" They have to make up their mind. You know, if it’s the Islamic State is a priority, go for it. If Assad is a priority, go for it.

But you cannot actually keep arguing, and while thousands—hundreds of thousands of people are killed, and 7,000 sorties. We don’t know what these air sorties are killing, for example. How many innocent people are killed because of it? I don’t believe there are these 7,000 air sorties killing al-Qaeda—sorry, Islamic State members. Definitely they are killing innocent people, civilians. Who will tell us how many civilians were killed? It is a completely taboo to talk about the deaths, civilian deaths, because of this allied bombardment of Syria and Iraq, you know, the Islamic State areas, while until now, also, in the same time, we don’t have any accurate figures by U.S. administration about how many people were killed in Iraq because of the American invasion of Iraq. This is the problem. You know, once—if the death among your enemy, nobody counts. If the death among the American, among the British, among the French, it is well calculated, one by one. You know, this is discrimination. How can the people of the Middle East believe this kind of policy? How they are not going to fight this kind of hypocrisy in a way or another? We are giving, actually, ammunition to radical terrorist organization like al-Qaeda, like the Islamic State, by this kind of policies.

AMY GOODMAN: Abdel Bari Atwan, I want to get your response—

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: We have to be truthful to our people.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to get your response to the comment made by presidential candidate Bernie Sanders at Saturday’s Democratic presidential debate in Iowa.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: I would argue that the disastrous invasion of Iraq—something that I strongly opposed—has unraveled the region completely and led to the rise of al-Qaeda and to ISIS.

AMY GOODMAN: Abdel Bari Atwan, can you respond, you who interviewed Osama bin Laden twice?

ABDEL BARI ATWAN: Yes, Amy, he is absolutely correct. I am personally proud to have American candidate saying the truth. We need the truth. Yes, the American invasion of Iraq created al-Qaeda, or strengthening al-Qaeda and created—or it created the incubator for the Islamic State, because, you know, they—as I said, under the banner of de-Baathification, they thrown millions of Iraqi ex-soldiers, ex-officers on the streets, without any hope, without any dignity, without any pension, nothing at all. And this is the hardcore of the Islamic State. That’s why those people are full of revenge, full of anger, full of blood. So, this is—yes, the American—I agree with Sanders. This is the invasion which created most of the problems.

OK, maybe it solved one problem—toppling a dictator, who—he was a dictator, no question about that. But what’s—how is Iraq now? Iraq is completely dismembered. Iraq is a failed state now. This is the problem. Do you believe that the Americans, the greatest superpower, the most sovereign, the most actually modern power, cannot actually fix Iraq, cannot create a democracy there, cannot create coexistence among the people? And what happened is the opposite, dividing them—this is Sunni, this is Shia. So, this is—this is the problem. Yes, it is—you know, we have to say the truth. The American invasion of the Middle East—Iraq, in particular—creating the environment, the best environment for the Islamic State and for al-Qaeda to continue their savagery, their terrorism, their brutalism against the people of that region.

AMY GOODMAN: Abdel Bari Atwan, I want to thank you for being with us, author of the new book, The Islamic State: The Digital Caliphate, longtime journalist who served as editor-in-chief of the London-based daily Al-Quds al-Arabi for 25 years, now runs the Rai al-Youm website, recently wrote an article, and we’ll link to it, at Salon, "America Enabled Radical Islam: How the CIA, George W. Bush and Many Others Helped Create ISIS." We’ll have Part 2 of our discussion later this week. We’ll be back in a minute.

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"A Disturbing Increase in Islamophobia": U.S. Mosques Threatened, Canadian Mosque Set on Fire

There are growing reports of Islamophobic attacks since Friday’s massacre in Paris. Just hours after the Paris assault, a caller left a voicemail laced with racial slurs for the Islamic Society of Pinellas County in St. Petersburg, Florida. The caller left his full name and threatened to "firebomb you, shoot whoever’s there on sight in the head." Meanwhile in Pflugerville, Texas, residents found a torn Qur’an covered in feces left in front of the local mosque. In Canada, a mosque in Peterborough, Ontario, was set on fire in what authorities have called a hate crime. We discuss the attacks with Roula Allouch, national board chair of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, there are growing reports of Islamophobic attacks since Friday’s attacks in Paris. Just hours after the Paris assaults, a caller left this voicemail for the Islamic Society of the Pinellas County in St. Petersburg, Florida.

MARTIN SCHNITZLER: We’re tired of your [bleep], and I’m going to [bleep] personally have a militia that’s going to come down to your Islamic Society of Pinellas County, firebomb you, shoot whoever’s there on sight in the head. I don’t care if they’re [bleep] two years old or a hundred. I’m over your [bleep]. The whole country is. Check out Facebook. Check out postings. This attack in France is the last straw. And, you know, [bleep] you. [bleep] Allah. [bleep] your sand [bleep]. Get the [bleep] out of my country. And my name is Martin Schnitzler. Come find me, please. Please report me, because I would love, love it. You’re going to [bleep] die, Masjid Sunnah, or whoever the [bleep] your name is, you [bleep] sand [bleep].

AMY GOODMAN: A voicemail for the Islamic Society of Pinellas County in St. Petersburg, Florida. Again, we beeped as much as we could out of that horrific message, as he repeatedly talked about "sand-N" words. Meanwhile in Pflugerville, Texas, residents found a torn Qur’an covered in feces left in front of the local mosque. In Peterborough, Ontario, a mosque was set on fire in what authorities have called a hate crime. Roula Allouch, what are you calling for?

ROULA ALLOUCH: Yeah, I mean, we need—at this point, we need to unite. We need to stand united as people and not allow fear and hate to take over and to sacrifice our American values and principles. Really, in doing so, we would be allowing the extremists and the people that we’re fighting against to win.

AMY GOODMAN: Roula, in the case of the Florida call—

ROULA ALLOUCH: And it’s messages like that—

AMY GOODMAN: —he actually identified himself. What is happening at the Masjid, at the mosque? What are they doing? How are they protecting themselves? And do you feel that the law enforcement response is adequate?

ROULA ALLOUCH: So, our CAIR Florida team has been working with the people at the mosque down in Florida, and law enforcement has stepped up to review. I mean, as you said, the person felt comfortable and safe to provide his name. And I think that reflects a disturbing increase in Islamophobia and a disturbing increase in what appears to be acceptability of that type of rhetoric and hate being spewed. And it certainly doesn’t help when elected officials seem to be following that same line of hate and speaking out in ways that are contrary to American values.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Roula Allouch, I want to thank you for being with us, national board chair of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, known as CAIR.

That does it for our broadcast. Democracy Now! is hiring a development director to lead our fundraising efforts, also an on-air graphics operator. You can go to our website at democracynow.org.

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We are Angry over Death of My Cousin in Paris, As Well As the Deaths of Children in Iraq & Syria

On Sunday more than 1,000 people overflowed a ballroom at California State University, Long Beach to honor Nohemí González, the 23-year-old student who was shot dead on Friday during the Paris attacks. González was a senior at the school. She was studying for a semester at Strate College of Design in suburban Paris. On Friday she was eating at a restaurant fired upon by gunmen. Nohemí González has been described as a proud first-generation Mexican American. We speak with her cousin, Miriam Padilla. "We are angry that my cousin is dead, but we are also angry that there are hundreds of children in other families that are dying in Syria, in Iraq and in other parts of the world," Padilla says.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We turn right now to what happened on Sunday. More than a thousand people overflowed a ballroom at California State University, Long Beach to honor and remember Nohemí González, the 23-year-old American student shot dead on Friday during the Paris attacks. Nohemí was a senior at the school. She was studying for a semester at Strate College of Design in suburban Paris. On Friday, she was eating at a restaurant in Paris fired upon by the gunmen.

University President Jane Close Conoley said, quote, "Nohemí’s senseless murder is our worst nightmare. Taking the life of an innocent is an assault on our hearts and on our world. Nohemí was an innocent of great promise, a light in our community." Nohemí González has been described as a proud first-generation Mexican American.

Her cousin, Miriam Padilla, joins us now from Los Angeles.

Miriam, our condolences to you and to your family. Can you tell us who Nohemí is, was?

MIRIAM PADILLA: Yeah. First, first, we’d like to—on behalf of my family, we’d like to say that we stand in solidarity with the family and friends of all the victims and the people of France. Nohemí, she was a very—she was a very outspoken person. She was very cheerful, very bubbly. You know, we grew up together, my siblings and her family. She was a very—she was a go-getter, you know? And she wanted—if she wanted something, she would do it. And she was very excited to learn and to have opportunities that, you know, our parents never had. And—

AMY GOODMAN: And can you tell us how you learned what happened to Nohemí on Friday?

MIRIAM PADILLA: Yeah. My Aunt Beatriz, which is Nohemí’s mom, she called—she called my older sister, and my sister called us from Seattle—or, in Seattle. And so, then I flew down here. And my aunt found out because of her boyfriend. My cousin’s boyfriend told her.

AMY GOODMAN: Nohemí has described herself as a proud first-generation Mexican American. Her parents are from Mexico. Can you talk about your response, or how she might have responded, knowing her well—you are her cousin—to this latest news in state after state in the United States, governors saying they will not accept Syrian refugees? I think the number we’re at now is something like in 27 states.

MIRIAM PADILLA: Right. You know, we feel that attacks on unarmed civilians to publicize a political objective is a huge crime against humanity. But as human beings and as first-generation students and as children who come from immigrants or parents who migrated from Mexico, we understand that, you know, some of the most—or the most victims that—or the ISIS victims are Muslims and Arabs themselves. And this is something that I think we—as much hurt and pain that we are going through, we have to analyze the entire situation as human beings and realize that it’s much more than just the attack in Paris.

AMY GOODMAN: In your—why her heritage, why Nohemí’s heritage, as a Mexican American—how that played out in her life and what she chose to do, in her traveling to Paris?

MIRIAM PADILLA: Why—I’m sorry, why is it important?

AMY GOODMAN: Just, yes, why it was important to her? Do you see a connection between your own heritage, her own heritage, and her love of education and travel?

MIRIAM PADILLA: Right. Well, it’s like I said. My aunt and uncle, they migrated from Mexico to give my cousins a better opportunity to educate themselves and to succeed and to do something and to give back to the community. And, you know, one of her greatest goals was to go to school and to finish and to make her parents proud. And it’s important that we talk about heritage, because, you know, the issue with the refugees that are coming to the U.S. is because of the violence, and it’s the same issue in Mexico and all over Latin America. People are—people are leaving their homelands to come to the U.S. in the hopes—in the hopes of a better future.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about why we’re speaking to you in Los Angeles now? You’re a student at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, correct?

MIRIAM PADILLA: Right. Yeah, like I said, I live in Washington, but I came down here to be with my family—my sister lives here, my aunt lives here—and just for moral support, to be together. It’s very hard, it’s very difficult, to be far away when, you know, this tragedy happened. It’s easier to cope with it as a family than individually.

AMY GOODMAN: And do you have a message, as we wrap up this conversation—the Paris attacks were Friday, your cousin was killed in the midst of those attacks—in both a message for President Obama and the other world leaders? One of the first responses now is bombing Syria, and the next response has been these governors in the United States to crack down on migration.

MIRIAM PADILLA: Well, you know, there have been many, many tragedies so far these last few days in many parts of the world. And I think that it’s really important to not compare oppressions or compare tragedies. It’s important, you know, as individuals, as human beings, to come together and unite, and to stop. You know, we’re angry. We’re angry that my cousin is dead. But we’re also angry that there are hundreds of children in other families that are dying in Syria, in Iraq and in other parts of the world. And we—we thank everyone who made my cousin smile.

AMY GOODMAN: Miriam, thanks so much for being with us. I know how hard this must be. And again, our condolences to your whole family. Miriam Padilla is a student at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, but we’re speaking to her in Los Angeles, where she has gathered with her family around the death of her cousin, Nohemí González, who was killed in the Paris attacks on Friday. We’ll be back in a minute.

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Lydia Wilson: What I Discovered from Interviewing Imprisoned Islamic State Fighters

Oxford researcher Lydia Wilson discusses interviewing members of ISIS held prisoner at a police station of Kirkuk, Iraq. "They are children of the occupation, many with missing fathers at crucial periods (through jail, death from execution, or fighting in the insurgency), filled with rage against America and their own government," Wilson wrote in a recent piece for The Nation. "They are not fueled by the idea of an Islamic caliphate without borders; rather, ISIS is the first group since the crushed Al Qaeda to offer these humiliated and enraged young men a way to defend their dignity, family, and tribe."

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Our next guest is Lydia Wilson, a research fellow at the Centre for the Resolution of Intractable Conflict at Oxford University, also senior research fellow and field director at Artis International, a conflict resolution research consortium. Her latest piece for The Nation magazine is headlined "What I Discovered from Interviewing Imprisoned ISIS Fighters." She’s joining us from London.

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Lydia. Explain what you found, how you interviewed ISIS fighters in Iraq.

LYDIA WILSON: Yes, so, firstly, I’d like to point out that these were Iraqi local boys, Sunni-Arab Iraqis who were operating a sleeper cell in Kirkuk. One of them is from Kirkuk, the other two had moved there as children. And so, this was a very particular group of people. And what I found, very strongly, from interviewing them, which was subsequently backed up by other people’s witness reports, is that primarily why they were fighting is because ISIS, right now, at this time, is giving them their opportunity to fight for their Sunni identity, in terms of their land, their tribe, their family, which they have not been given this opportunity, as they see it, since al-Qaeda formed the insurgency during the occupation.

AMY GOODMAN: What drove the ISIS prisoners that you talked to? And describe the setting where you talked to them.

LYDIA WILSON: So, they were prisoners. They had been through due process. They had been found guilty of terrorism for various vehicle explosions and assassinations within Kirkuk. And so, I was given access by the police, and I was interviewing them before they were serving their sentence.

And so, they were quiet, to begin with. And when I gave them a chance to talk and to ask more open-ended questions, it became very clear that they were fueled by a lot of anger, anger primarily against the Americans, but also against their government, that they perceived as Shia, sectarian, and anti-Sunni. They perceived that everybody was against them, that they weren’t given a chance in their own country. And many of them were poor. They were very low education rates—one was illiterate entirely—and big families and often unemployed. So, ISIS was not only offering them a chance to fight for their Sunni identity, but they were offering them money. They were being paid to be foot soldiers. And, I mean, one of them was the eldest of 17 siblings, and his story was that he hurt his back and couldn’t earn any money as a laborer, which he had been doing.

Now, this money was greatly appreciated by them all, but that’s not to say it’s only economic need. There was this driving anger against Americans, against the occupation—but not in terms of this ideology that we see coming out of the ISIS official publications or through social media. It was anger—it was much more personal. It was much more about their own childhoods and adolescences, that they had been blocked from having a normal life because, as they saw it, of the American occupation.

AMY GOODMAN: Lydia Wilson, why did they—

LYDIA WILSON: One of them actually said to us—

AMY GOODMAN: Why did they talk to you?

LYDIA WILSON: I’m sorry?

AMY GOODMAN: Why did they talk to you?

LYDIA WILSON: We were given access by the police general of Kirkuk. I’m not sure that they had an option in it, to be honest.

AMY GOODMAN: What you know about the so-called handbook of ISIS called The Management of Savagery?

LYDIA WILSON: Well, it was interesting that your previous guest actually referred to it, but very indirectly, because this is huge. It’s really a playbook for what is going on, which is why, to a certain extent, what is going—what has happened in Paris shouldn’t come as a surprise. Yes, it’s shocking and tragic, but actually it’s all there in this handbook that’s written—it’s a pseudonym, but it’s under the name of Abu Bakr Naji, published around 10 years ago, when this group of people was still al-Qaeda in Iraq. Later, a lot of these people formed the Islamic State. And they are fulfilling it. They are following the rules held in this guidebook. One is to attack the unbelievers wherever they are. One is to cause as much terror on the streets as you can, to attack tourist destinations so that security is strengthened in those places, and it costs the unbelieving nations more money. And one is to drag us into a war, to drag our forces into wars that we cannot win, and—as they see it—and also that we will spend an awful lot of our money and power fighting.

AMY GOODMAN: So, the response right now, hours after the bombing in—hours after the attacks in Paris, fuels ISIS. This is what they want, you’re saying—Russia bombing Syria, U.S. bombing Syria, France bombing Syria?

LYDIA WILSON: I’m really sorry, I’m having very much trouble hearing.

AMY GOODMAN: I’m asking—

LYDIA WILSON: I’m so sorry. Did you ask about the response?

AMY GOODMAN: Yes, I’m saying, are you saying that the U.S., French and Russian bombing of Syria is exactly what ISIS wants?

LYDIA WILSON: Yes, I am. That is, that they’re seemingly delighted by what’s going on, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Lydia Wilson, we want to thank you for being with us, research fellow at the Centre for the Resolution of Intractable Conflict at Oxford University. We’ll link to your piece in The Nation magazine. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report.

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"It is Very Un-American": 27 U.S. Governors Refuse to Accept Refugees Fleeing Violence in Syria

In the wake of Friday’s attacks in Paris, governors of at least 27 U.S. states have said they will not accept Syrian refugees. A Syrian passport which appears to be fake was found near the body of one of the Paris attackers, whose fingerprints matched someone who passed through Greece and the Balkans. But all the attackers identified so far are European nationals. The Obama administration has said it still plans to accept Syrian refugees, noting they are intensely vetted. We get reaction from Roula Allouch, national board chair of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: In the wake of Friday’s attacks in Paris, governors of at least 27 U.S. states have said they won’t accept Syrian refugees. A Syrian passport which appears to be fake was found near the body of one of the Paris attackers, whose fingerprints match someone who passed through Greece and the Balkans. But all the attackers identified so far are European nationals. The Obama administration said it still plans to accept Syrian refugees, noting they’re intensely vetted. Only about 1,500 Syrian refugees have been resettled in the United States since the Syrian conflict began in 2011.

We’re joined right now by Roula Allouch, who is the national board chair of CAIR. That’s the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Can you respond to this growing number of governors throughout the United States who are saying no to refugees?

ROULA ALLOUCH: Yeah, first, if I may, I’d like to offer my condolences to the previous guest, my fellow guest on today’s show, for her loss and for her family, and my thoughts and prayers are with her. But I also commend her for her courage in speaking in support of humanity, and also offer condolences to the people of Paris and France and all those who are victimized by these horrific acts.

Certainly, we see these governors coming out and speaking out against having refugees from Syria come and find refuge in the United States. And truly, this is a really disturbing situation. These refugees are people that are fleeing from the very same horrific acts that took place, that we have condemned and seen in Paris and Beirut and other places. They’re people that are fleeing war and persecution. And it’s really disturbing and very un-American for these governors to be saying that we, as the United States, wouldn’t offer a place of refuge and a place of safety and security for people that have been suffering from horrific acts for many, many years now.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to Alabama Governor Robert Bentley.

ROULA ALLOUCH: OK.

MARTIN SCHNITZLER: —old or a hundred. I’m over your [bleep]. The whole country is. Check out Facebook. Check out postings. This—

AMY GOODMAN: We want to turn to—we want to turn to one of the governors who has spoken out against having refugees. This is Alabama Governor Robert Bentley.

GOV. ROBERT BENTLEY: And I think the thing that I want to do as governor is to make sure the people of Alabama are safe. And if there is any—if there’s even the slightest risk that the people who are coming in from Syria are not the types of people that we would want them to be, then we can’t take that chance.

AMY GOODMAN: Not every governor is saying that, however. A growing number of governors are saying they want to accept—they don’t want to accept Syrian refugees, but Vermont Governor Peter Shumlin said Syrian refugees are welcome in Vermont.

GOV. PETER SHUMLIN: And I think that the governors who are taking those actions are standing—stomping on the qualities that make America great, which is reaching out to folks when they’re in trouble and offering them help, not hurting them.

AMY GOODMAN: Roula Allouch, your response?

ROULA ALLOUCH: Yeah, sure. I mean, I commend the governor of Vermont and welcome the remarks by President Obama in saying that despite the concerns that have been expressed by many, that we will continue to welcome these refugees in, and second what was said by the government of Vermont: The United States of America has always been a place that is seen as a beacon of light and hope for immigrants. We’ve got the Statue of Liberty that stands as a symbol of that for our nation, and we’ve got American values and principles that say that we will welcome people in. And, you know, we say, "Give us your hungry, your poor." And we will be a place for security and safety for people that are fleeing horrible places and places where they’re suffering from horrific atrocities. And that’s exactly what the Syrian people are experiencing today.

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Russia Confirms Bomb Brought Down Plane, Killing 224

Russian authorities have confirmed a bomb brought down a passenger plane over the Sinai Penininsula in Egypt last month, killing all 224 people on board. The self-proclaimed Islamic State had claimed responsibility for taking down the plane, calling it retaliation for Russia’s airstrikes in Syria. Russian officials say an examination of the wreckage confirms an "improvised explosive device" went off soon after the plane departed Sharm el-Sheikh en route to St. Petersburg. Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed to intensify Russian airstrikes in Syria in response to the bombing.

Russian President Vladimir Putin: "The murder of our people in Sinai is one of the bloodiest by the number of victims of such crimes. We won’t wipe off tears over our hearts and souls. It will stay with us forever. But that will not prevent us from finding and punishing the perpetrators."

French President Seeks Expansion of State Power After Attacks

France and the United States have also ramped up airstrikes against ISIS in response to the attacks in Paris that killed 129 people Friday. In France and Belgium, authorities have carried out a wave of raids in search of a suspect who escaped. French President François Hollande has requested a sweeping expansion of state power, calling for measures to ease police raids without a warrant, allow the government to strip citizenship from dual passport holders convicted of terrorism, and expand the current state of emergency for three months. Addressing Parliament, Hollande sought changes to the French constitution.

French President François Hollande: "I honestly believe that we need to update our constitution to allow the authorities to act within the law against the terrorism of war."

Britain to Hire 1,900 New Spies After Paris Attacks

French President François Hollande has also indicated he could seek a further expansion of spying powers, beyond new laws adopted since the Charlie Hebdo newspaper attacks in January. Meanwhile, British Prime Minister David Cameron has vowed to fund an additional 1,900 officers at the spy agencies MI5 and MI6.

CIA Director Claims Leaks Made It Harder to Find Terrorists

In the United States, CIA Director John Brennan invoked the Paris attacks to defend mass surveillance. In apparent reference to disclosures by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, Brennan suggested revelations about mass spying have made it harder to find terrorists.

John Brennan: "In the past several years, because of a number of unauthorized disclosures and a lot of hand wringing over the government’s role in the effort to try to uncover these terrorists, there have been some policy and legal and other actions that are taken that make our ability, collectively, internationally, to find these terrorists much more challenging."

Civil liberties advocates disputed Brennan’s claims. Jameel Jaffer of the American Civil Liberties Union said: "As far as I know, there’s no evidence the French lacked some kind of surveillance authority that would have made a difference. When we have invested new powers in the government in response to events like the Paris attacks, they have often been abused."

Governors of 27 U.S. States Refuse to Accept Syrian Refugees

State Dept.: Refugees Subject to "Highest Level of Security Checks"

The Obama administration has said it still plans to accept Syrian refugees. State Department spokesperson Mark Toner said refugees are intensely vetted.

Mark Toner: "You know, it’s also important to emphasize that these refugees are subject to the highest level of security checks of any category of traveler to the United States. It’s an interagency or multiagency screening process. It involves the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense. And particular to Syria, these Syrian refugees go through an extra, yet additional, forms of security screenings."

Environmentalists Plan to Protest in Paris Despite Crackdown

Environmentalists are vowing to press ahead with peaceful protests planned to coincide with the United Nations climate talks in Paris, which begin in just under two weeks. French Prime Minister Manuel Valls has said side events, including rallies, will be canceled. But in a statement, Nicolas Haeringer, France campaigner for the environmental group 350.org, said: "We fully share [French authorities] concerns about public safety—just as we fully oppose any unnecessary crackdowns on civil liberties and minority populations. We can think of few better responses to violence and terror than this movement’s push for peace and hope." Democracy Now! will travel to Paris to cover the two-week talks and the protests.

Stanford Students Launch Sit-in for Fossil Fuel Divestment

Stanford University students have surrounded the president’s office and vowed to remain in place until the university completely divests from the fossil fuel industry. Last year, in response to student protests, Stanford agreed to divest from coal companies. But the students have now called for Stanford to divest from all fossil fuels, including oil and gas.

Texas: Tornado Levels Halliburton Plant, Causing Chemical Leak

In Texas, a tornado has leveled a Halliburton plant in Pampa, causing a massive chemical leak. No one was inside the building at the time. Authorities have not identified the chemical involved.

Minnesota: 51 Arrested Protesting Police Killing of Jamar Clark

In Minneapolis, Minnesota, more than 50 people were arrested overnight as hundreds of protesters shut down a section of highway to protest the police shooting of 24-year-old African American Jamar Clark. Police said Clark was shot after a scuffle with officers who responded to a report of an assault. But multiple witnesses have said Clark was shot while handcuffed.

Tito Wilson: "The guy was pinned down on the ground. He was not moving. He wasn’t fighting. He wasn’t screaming. Nothing. And next thing we know, maybe a minute or whatever after watching it, the gun went off."

Tequila Dillon: "They put his hands behind his back, they slammed him on the ground, and they shot that man in his head."

Jamar Clark was reportedly taken off life support on Monday night. In response to mounting protests, Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges called for a federal investigation into the shooting. The protesters have continued to demand the release of video footage and the names of the officers involved.

California: Video Shows Deputies Beating Man on the Ground

In news from California, video released by the San Francisco Public Defender’s Office shows two Alameda County sheriff’s deputies beating a man as he lies on the ground. The security camera footage appears to show Stanislav Petrov, a suspected car thief, stopping and appearing to surrender, right before officers tackle him to the ground. The officers then punch Petrov and whale on him with their batons. Public Defender Brendon Woods compared the beating to the 1991 Los Angeles Police beating of Rodney King and called for a federal probe.

Report Faults Baltimore Police for Response to Freddie Gray Protests

A new report has criticized the Baltimore Police Department’s handling of uprisings following the death of Freddie Gray in police custody. The independent review conducted by the Police Executive Research Forum, found inadequate planning and training, confusion over the chain of command and a lack of clear policies for making arrests.

Georgetown Renames Buildings Named for Presidents Tied to Slavery

Georgetown University has agreed to rename two buildings that honor past presidents with ties to slavery, following protests against racial injustice on campus. Mulledy Hall and McSherry Hall are both named for former Georgetown presidents who facilitated the sale of slaves to help pay down the school’s debt in the 1830s. Georgetown is among the schools nationwide where students have rallied against campus racism.

Utah: Judge Removes Himself from Lesbian Foster Parent Case

And a Utah judge who came under fire for removing a foster child from a lesbian couple’s home because of their sexual orientation has removed himself from the case. Juvenile Court Judge Scott Johansen had initially removed the baby from the same-sex couple, saying she would be better off with heterosexual parents. Following protests and calls for his impeachment, he later reversed the order.

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