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Activists Dragged Out of Climate Expo for Protesting Corporate Influence over COP21 Negotiations
The U.N. climate summit has come under scrutiny for its unprecedented level of corporate sponsorship—more than 50 companies, with some of them counted by climate activists as being among the world’s worst industrial polluters. On Friday, climate activists gathered at the Grand Palais in Paris protesting the COP21 "Solutions" exhibition, where businesses were pushing for corporate and privatized responses to climate change. Several protesters were evicted from the premises by the large security presence at the event.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting live from COP21, from the U.N. climate summit here in Paris, France, as we turn to the issue of corporate sponsorship of the summit. On Friday, climate activists gathered at the Grand Palais in Paris protesting the COP21 "Solutions" exhibition, where businesses were pushing for corporate and privatized responses to climate change. Tens of protesters were evicted from the premises by the large security presence there. Democracy Now!’s Nermeen Shaikh and Hany Massoud were there. Pascoe Sabido of the Corporate Europe Observatory helped organize the action.
PASCOE SABIDO: We’re here in the Grand Palais in Paris. This is one of the biggest exhibition centers, a beautiful old building. I mean, look at the ceiling, just for a start. This holds like—at the moment, next door is a Picasso exhibition. It holds really big, high-level stuff. But at the moment, between the 4th and 10th of December, it’s holding Solutions COP21, which is a massive corporate expo. The likes of—I mean, you look around here, we’ve got Engie, which used to be called GDF Suez, a big coal player pushing natural gas. We’ve got banks, like HSBC, BNP Paribas, who are pushing coal. We’ve got those building airports. I mean, you’ve got all sorts of stuff going on here, all claiming to be solutions. So they’re all in here to try and greenwash their image and present themselves as part of the solution to climate change. But I don’t think anyone is buying it, or at least none of us who have come here for our action.
But, I mean, in terms of security, which is quite—I don’t know. Walking in here, I was a bit terrified. You’ve got the what is called the CRS, these guys with their body armor and their shields and everything, and they are quite threatening. So, hopefully, we can avoid them. We’ll see what happens. But there’s undercover cops everywhere. So, what we plan to do is, if all goes to plan, when we have enough people in here, do a series of lobby tours, like toxic tours, to go around and really call out what these companies are really doing. And because we’re going to have people—you know, we’re going to have a lot of front-line communities, coming from some peasant struggles to those fighting tar sands in Canada to gas and fracking fights, so really coming out and hearing front-line community stories of how these false solutions are actually not part of a climate future.
AHMED GAYA: Toxic tour of this toxic sponsor of COP21.
My name is Ahmed Gaya. I’m with Rising Tide North America. This is a toxic tour of the Solutions COP21. We have a number of folks from front-line communities who have been battling with some of the companies that are sponsoring the COP21 and sponsoring this Solutions 21 with their pavilions, who are going to be giving a tour of their communities and what they’re fighting. And up first, we have Engie, which is actually one of France’s largest coal companies, that’s been lobbying heavily against emissions standards in France. In 2014 alone, they spent 2.5 million euros lobbying against emissions standards. And here they’ve paid to enter the COP21 Solutions 21 conference, to pay for access to negotiators and influence the COP process and greenwash their image. We have some folks here from Australia, who have been fighting Engie in Australia, who want to tell you a little bit about what Engie’s been doing in that community. Over here, I’m going to pass it over to Ruth.
RUTH: Activists in Australia continue to fight to shut this coal mine down. It is the dirtiest in the world. And Engie is making billions, while people in my local community suffer health consequences for their greed. Enough is enough. Pay the bill, Engie.
PROTESTERS: Pay the bill, Engie! Pay the bill, Engie!
AHMED GAYA: To Suez, just across, just across the way. We’re going over to Suez. So, maybe they won’t let us go over there, so we’re going to stay right here. So, Suez is pushing fracking across Europe. They’re one of the largest organizations involved in pushing fracking in Europe. We have some folks from the United States, indigenous folks that have been fighting fracking. I’m going to pass things over the Kandi Mossett from the Indigenous Environmental Network.
KANDI MOSSETT: Suez is talking about fracking as a solution to the future. I am from North Dakota, where they are fracking my homeland and killing our people in the name of a false solution for climate justice. We are looking for renewables. Fracking is not one of them.
AHMED GAYA: We started walking over to the booth that’s sponsored by Vinci and Suez. The police and security formed a line and prevented us from going to their booth. But we’re going to now head over this way to Veolia, because it looks like more police are coming.
Kandi, we’re coming this way. [inaudible] is heading to Veolia.
So, we’re kettled. Security has threatened us. They have formed a line. They’ve got arms. They’re trying to grab me. People are cheering in support, because we’re calling out these false solutions. Police have us surrounded. They have linked their arms. People are ducking under their arms to get out. All we’re doing here is we are—we’re speaking the truth about what’s going on here. We’re speaking to reporters. People have been speaking to reporters all day at these booths and giving interviews. But when we speak about the false solutions and expose the truth of what’s happening, we get kettled by police and shut down.
HANY MASSOUD: Pascoe, what’s happening? Pascoe, Pascoe, what’s happening? What’s happening?
PASCOE SABIDO: The police are clearly working for the likes of Engie.
HANY MASSOUD: What’s happening? What’s happening?
PASCOE SABIDO: They’re arresting people who are trying to speak truth. They’re basically grabbing our arms and our legs and taking us out, because they are working for the likes of Engie and others promoting false solutions. If we’re serious about tackling climate change, then we need to make sure that these security are on our side. This is not about these guys. They’re doing what they’re told, what they’re paid to do. But unfortunately, money can buy you quite a lot of security. So, we’re going to be taken out, but it does not end here. We’re going to continue. We’re going to be in the streets. We’re going to be on the front lines. We’re going to take down Engie and the others whilst they are in our communities, and we’re going to make sure that actually our climate future is in the hands of people and not big business.
SABINE CESSOU: I’m Sabine Cessou, journalist. I work for several media in France. And what’s going on here is that the policemen are actually taking all the activists that came inside the Grand Palais to protest against those big companies who are doing greenwashing, as you can see here. It’s more like a commercial fair than anything else. So, these people are protesting. It’s freedom of speech in our country. We’re in 2015, and we have policemen really taking all these people one by one and taking them out, because they don’t want any disturbance. There’s an urgent state now because of the attentat, the attacks, the terrorist attacks, and it’s a police state all over the place. And we are going to see that more and more, suppression of our liberties and freedom of speech being breached.
EXHIBITION ATTENDEE: I don’t understand. I’m not an activist. I’m not a journalist. I’m being detained by the police for just trying to learn about what’s going on around me. I don’t belong to any organization. I’m not doing anything but coming to this exhibition. And now, for some reason, the police of France have decided to hold on to me, and I can’t leave. So, I’m not sure if this is the reason that I came to France. I don’t believe it was. I came here to learn about how to do something about climate change. And yet, when a voice—this is amazing that a voice of dissent is raised, and the immediate response is to try to arrest people and to try to stop them from speaking. Look at me.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: There are a number of people who have just sat down in protest. And now, a person who was participating in the sit-in has been escorted out. The police have surrounded the area and are now blocking our shot, and trying to get—the journalists who are trying to take pictures and who are trying to film are being prevented from doing so.
PROTESTER 1: We wanted just to speak, and we do not have the right.
PROTESTER 2: They are making us leave. Impossible. We can’t speak.
SABINE CESSOU: I’m really so angry, I can’t tell you. I’m a French journalist. Basically, I haven’t seen that—you’ve seen me before, right? I haven’t seen that in my whole life. First time. First time I see that kind of [bleep] happening in France. I think it’s really preposterous—I don’t know what word to use. And these young kids, who came here just to engage a dialogue with the big companies who are not doing that good in environmental issues, were taken out by a police—I mean, huge police force, one by one. These are students, activists, old people, journalists. I think it’s—it’s like it’s telling a lot about what’s actually going on in this place. It’s a commercial fair. It’s everybody defending its brand, its image, its investments, and considering climate change as an opportunity for business and not an opportunity for opening up your mind and taking consciousness and taking conscience of what is really at stake.
PROTESTER 3: Laissez-moi ma Ventolin! Laissez-moi ma Ventolin!
HÉLÈNE CHARRIER: Laissez-lui sa Ventolin! Laissez-lui sa Ventolin!
HANY MASSOUD: What were you saying?
HÉLÈNE CHARRIER: Ventolin is a medicine for asthma. She was asking, "Let me take my Ventolin." If she dies, they will say, "We did not know." She shouted it: "Let me take my Ventolin." It’s a very well-known medicine for asthma.
HANY MASSOUD: You know her name, who she was?
HÉLÈNE CHARRIER: No.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: What is your name?
HÉLÈNE CHARRIER: Hélène. Hélène Charrier from organization ATTAC. Filmez-moi! Hélène Charrier, ATTAC!
MATHIEU EISINGER: My name is Mathieu Eisinger. What’s strange today and what shocked me today is policemen grabbing people with camera. And, I mean, it’s really—yeah, it’s shocking. I mean, people can’t do that in a democracy. But there is an emergency state, and maybe they think they can do anything. So I guess—I mean, police in France is really—culturally, it’s not a good way to maintain order. They are violent. I mean, all the day they are violent. But usually, with journalists, they know how to do this. And now I guess that they don’t—they don’t care. I mean, they do whatever they want to do, because they know they have no judge in front of them, so they can act like this with journalists.
Here, you can see fancy things, beautiful presentation, nice chair, nice people, gentle—yeah, everybody is gentle. But the reality is not gentle. So, the reality—a guy was describing from India where he knows that Engie is working on a factory. I don’t know exactly the term, but yeah, the reality is not gentle. So, people are protesting here and saying the reality is not the way you see things here. Yeah, people don’t want to hear that voice.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Mathieu Eisinger, French writer and filmmaker, speaking after climate activists gathered at the Grand Palais, or Grand Palace, in Paris to protest the COP21 Solutions corporate expo on climate change. A number of protesters were evicted by security. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. We’re broadcasting live from Paris, France, from the U.N. summit.
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"We Do Not Want to Die in Silence": Indigenous People Demand Rights as Draft Climate Deal Reached
Negotiators from 195 countries at the United Nations climate summit have approved draft text for what they hope will form an accord to curb global carbon emissions by the end of this week. Among the issues still under discussion is whether the deal will mention indigenous rights. On Sunday, indigenous people from around the world took to the waters here in Paris to defend their rights and the environment. "We’re very, very concerned about the fact that reference to indigenous rights and human rights have been moved into an annex in the Paris text," Cree activist Clayton Thomas-Muller says. "It means that they’ve been put aside to be discussed after the weekend."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We are broadcasting from Paris, France, at the United Nations climate summit, where [negotiators] from 195 countries have approved draft text for what they hope will form a global accord to curb carbon emissions by the end of this week. The document still contains more than 900 square brackets to signify areas of disagreement. Contentious issues that will need to be resolved include financing for developing countries, the precise carbon emission reduction targets, and whether or not the text will explicitly outline different responsibilities for developing and developed countries, that are responsible for the majority of carbon emissions to date.
A day after negotiators reached their draft agreement, indigenous people from around the world took to the waters here in Paris to demand their rights be included in the final accord. While indigenous communities are often at the front lines of climate change, indigenous leaders here in Paris say they fear their rights may be left out of the deal. On Sunday, the indigenous groups staged a kayak flotilla paddling along the Villette Canal. On a bridge over the canal, they unfurled banners to demand the end of oil drilling on indigenous lands and the defense of water. Standing on the bridge as kayakers sailed beneath us, I spoke with Clayton Thomas-Muller, a Cree activist from Canada.
CLAYTON THOMAS-MULLER: We have indigenous peoples from dozens of First Nations and indigenous nations, from the Amazon to the Arctic, that are all here on this canal in Paris. They’re coming down the river to really, you know, demonstrate our commitment to protect the sacredness of Mother Earth. You know, we’re very, very concerned about the fact that reference to indigenous rights and human rights have been moved into an annex in the Paris text.
AMY GOODMAN: What does that mean?
CLAYTON THOMAS-MULLER: Well, what it means is that in the operational language of the Paris agreement, the European Union, the U.K. and Norway and the United States have been meddling in having indigenous peoples’ rights protected in the agreement, in the new climate agreement.
AMY GOODMAN: What does it mean to put them into an annex?
CLAYTON THOMAS-MULLER: Well, it means that they’ve been put aside to be discussed after the weekend. And so we’re extremely concerned. And so, today’s action is about asserting our territorial jurisdiction and sovereignty as indigenous peoples. We have rights, priority rights. And today’s action is about sharing our cosmology and connection to the sacredness of Mother Earth with the world.
AMY GOODMAN: Cree activist Clayton Thomas-Muller, speaking at a kayak flotilla here in Paris, France, where indigenous people from across the Americas described the threats they face to their lands and livelihoods. The Mundurukú people of Brazil are fighting a series of mega-dams that could bring massive deforestation, flooding and displacement, while the Beaver Lake Cree Nation in Alberta, Canada, fight tar sands extraction. Democracy Now!’s Amy Littlefield spoke to some of the participants.
CRYSTAL LAMEMAN: My name is Crystal Lameman, and I’m a member of the Beaver Lake Cree Nation, which is in northern Alberta, Canada. And the goal of our people coming here today to be on the water is, as indigenous peoples, we have an understanding with our one true mother that water is life. Nipiy pimatsowin. Water is life. We are the first to experience the causes and effects of climate change. When we’re pulling fish from the water that have cancers hanging off of them, we don’t live in Third World country. We live in Canada, what is supposed to be a developed First World country. And the indigenous peoples in that country are having to fight for their basic human rights to breathe clean air and drink clean water.
AMY LITTLEFIELD: And what role do you have in the negotiations?
CRYSTAL LAMEMAN: We don’t have a role. We walk around with badges that say "observer." We’re not allowed into the negotiating spaces.
MARIA LEUSA MUNDURUKÚ: [translated] We have come to Paris to bring our struggle to the world for the recognition of our rights. The Brazilian government intends to build seven large dams on our river, the first being São Luis do Tapajos. And this will kill indigenous peoples and our river. We are suffering a great threat to our life, to our river, and our mother is screaming for help.
CASEY CAMP-HORINEK: I’m a member of the Ponca Nation of Oklahoma. My colonized name is Casey Camp-Horinek. I want to acknowledge the pain of the people of France from the tragedy that was here on November the 13th. As we have said often, we indigenous people understand what it feels to be attacked. The Ponca people in north-central Oklahoma are suffering from environmental genocide. The first onslaught of the settlers came with bayonets, with rifles, with smallpox blankets. But now they come with refineries, with fracking, with pipelines, and they kill the air, they kill the earth, they kill the water. And that kills my people.
CHIEF RAONI METUKTIRE: [translated] Indigenous peoples are all friends. In fact, we are all family. All of humanity is family. And so, we appeal to the governments to stop violating their own laws, to stop violating our rights, to stop pillaging and exploiting our lands and territories. We do not want to die in silence. We want to be heard. We want to be heeded. It’s in your best interest, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED: The Earth is alive! The Earth is alive!
AMY GOODMAN: Chief Raomi Metuktire, a leader of the Kayapo people of Brazil. They call themselves the Mebêngôkre. The chief wears a traditional large wooden disc in his lower lip. He has played a leading role in the struggle against the Belo Monte hydroelectric dam, which is now under construction in Brazil. Special thanks to Amy Littlefield, John Hamilton and Juan Carlos Dávila for that report.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’ll go to activists taking on corporate power at COP21 and then to a French journalist who was held hostage by ISIS for 10 months. He’ll respond to President Obama’s address. Stay with us.
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Former ISIS Hostage Nicolas Hénin: Welcoming Refugees is the Best Strategy Against ISIS
Image Credit: HRW.org
French journalist and author Nicolas Hénin spent 10 months as an ISIS hostage where he was held by Mohammed Emwazi. We spoke with him about the growing move among Western countries to close their doors to refugees. "Welcoming refugees is not a terror threat to our countries; it’s like a vaccine to protect us from terrorism, because the more interactions we have between societies, between communities, the less there will be tensions," Hénin says. "The Islamic State believes in a global confrontation. What they want eventually is civil war in our countries, or at least large unrest, and in the Middle East, a large-scale war. This is what they look for. This is what they struggle for. So we have to kill their narrative and actually to welcome refugees, totally destroy their narrative."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting from Paris, France, finishing our conversation with French journalist Nicolas Hénin, held hostage in Syria by the self-proclaimed Islamic State for 10 months.
AMY GOODMAN: When James Foley was beheaded, how did you find out? Where was he beheaded?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, it was—I recognized the place, because these were valleys where I ran when I escaped. I actually ran very close from this place on the night I escaped at the very beginning of my captivity, so I recognized the landscape. And I was, of course, very much shocked, because I did not believe that that would happen. I was still maybe a bit naive, but we filled ourselves with hope, with desperate hope, during these months of captivity. We had to hope, because if you stop hoping, then you have no reason to survive. So that was maybe a bit naive to believe that, yes, for some of us, it may be a bit more difficult than for others, but that we would eventually, all of us, make it out. And his murder was the evidence that that wasn’t true and that actually some of us, some of our group, would not make it out.
AMY GOODMAN: How did you ultimately get freed, Nicolas?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, I believe that there has been negotiations for that. I don’t know the terms of the negotiation. I don’t know what I have been exchanged for. The only thing I know is what the French authorities, what President Hollande told me, that the French government did not pay any money. So, I don’t know anything else.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what happened after 10 months? You were held, and then tell us about the day you were freed.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, it was a bit strange. I mean, I was—we were moved to a different jail, so away from the group. We had to speak on the day before we were said, "Well, you will be freed." So, and we had to speak for the first time with Kayla Mueller for five minutes. And—
AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean, you had to speak to Kayla?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: She—they brought us to her cell. So we had five minutes of exchange, because, obviously, they wanted us to report that she was with us and alive. And—
AMY GOODMAN: What did you say to Kayla? What was your conversation?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, she explained a bit what she had been through.
AMY GOODMAN: What did she say?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: She said that she—she was looking extremely brave. I mean, she was incredibly courageous. At that time, I don’t believe that she had been mishandled yet. Apparently she has been afterwards. But she spent—
AMY GOODMAN: Raped and abused.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Maybe. But she spent several months in isolation, and she—but she was impressive. She had a beautiful inner strength. I mean, she was strong inside. She obviously had been through some tough moments, but she managed very well to overcome them. I was just impressed. She was looking beautiful. She was strong. She was—I mean, to the point that Jihadi John believed that she converted to Islam. And she said, "Oh, I just want to correct you: I did not convert." And, I mean, no one would dare to contradict him, but she did. That was not aggressive. She was just like, "No, please let me correct you: I did not convert." And she was just like that, very calm, but very decided. And she even spoke to us a few words of French, because her French was actually quite good. And she—yeah, she was really impressive.
AMY GOODMAN: And who were you released with?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: With—we were four French journalists together, and we have been released together. And they just, after some days in a transit place, drove us to the Turkish border and then delivered us to the Turkish military.
AMY GOODMAN: Were there other women held there?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Yes, there were a few women, but they were in a separate cell.
AMY GOODMAN: And did you know who they were?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Who were they?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: I cannot say, because these cases are under blackout.
AMY GOODMAN: Blackout because?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Because of their will and the will of their employer and families.
AMY GOODMAN: We just came from Calais, about two hours north of Paris. There were thousands and thousands of refugees there. Talk about the largest explosion of refugees since World War II and how the West is dealing with them.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, this huge flow of refugees is a major recruiting argument for populist political parties across Europe. And that’s another trap, because actually this refugee crisis was a major blow to the Islamic State and to its propaganda. Because what does the Islamic State propaganda rely on? First, they say Western society is not suitable for a Muslim to live in. A Muslim should emigrate to a Muslim land, and preferably to the caliphate, because this caliphate that we are establishing is the dream land for all Muslims. And the other aspect, the other key point of ISIS propaganda, is based on the fact that Westerners marginalize Muslim, that there is racism and hatred.
And basically, what have we witnessed last summer? First, hundreds of thousands of Muslims fleeing this dream land of Syria. It’s like—it’s just like if you had loads of Jews fleeing Israel just a couple of years after the state of Israel is established. I mean, that’s a—it contradicts all of the speech the state is based on and contracts itself on. And not only that, so they leave this land of sham, that is dream land for ISIS, to immigrate to lands of unbelievers, and on top of that, they are welcomed with open arms by the Western societies, who—and by many people in Europe who say, "Well, you are our brothers, and we will protect you."
And that was so much a blow that I believe that one of the reasons behind the Paris attack was to disrupt this and to stop, to make us close our doors to the refugees, because, actually, welcoming refugees is not a terror threat to us, to our countries. It’s like a vaccine to protect us from terrorism, because the more interactions we have between societies, between communities, the less there will be tensions. I mean, the Islamic State believes in a global confrontation. What they want eventually is civil war in our countries, or at least large unrest, and in the Middle East, a large-scale war. This is what they look for. This is what they struggle for. So we have to kill their narrative and actually to welcome refugees, totally destroy their narrative. And if you kill their narrative, it’s even more efficient than if you drop some bombs and kill some of their fighters.
AMY GOODMAN: Marine Le Pen, the far-right National Front party here in France, has just surged in the election yesterday. Now, these are regional elections. Her base is Calais. What does this mean?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, she actually benefits a lot from the recent events. Of course, one of the reasons for this surge is the high unemployment rate that we have in France and the economic crisis that is continuing. But she benefited a lot from, first, the refugee crisis, with a surge also in xenophobia. And she is very much Islamophobic, and she plays with that. And the second event was the Paris attack. She played with the fear of the people.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the rise of the National Front and the rise of ISIS?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, it’s surprising to see the parallel somehow and some kind of shared interest between ISIS and the National Front. It can sound a bit provocative to say it like that, but the point is that definitely the Paris attack, just a few weeks before the first round of these elections that have seen the surge of the National Front, are—well, these events are probably related, just like this surge is probably also related to the refugee crisis and—because Marine Le Pen, just like all of the populist leaders across Europe, played a lot with the fear of the people following this refugee crisis. They pretended that this influx of refugees threatened our identity, that it would jeopardize our security. This is totally stupid. I mean, you know, in France, we will welcome this year between 20,000 to 26,000 refugees. We are a country of almost 70 million inhabitants. I was in Sweden last week. They have 9 million inhabitants. They will welcome 190,000 refugees this year alone. I mean, and they are not afraid for their identity. They are not afraid for their security. They are just—well, they are just concerned, well, with the accommodation of all these people and more—much more logistical and practical concerns and issues. But they—I mean, we could welcome even more refugees than we are welcoming. And actually, welcoming refugees is a beautiful way to fight the Islamic State.
AMY GOODMAN: Because?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Because this kills their narrative, because all their narrative is based on the fact that they are building the holy land for Muslims in their caliphate, self-proclaimed caliphate, on one way, and it’s made also on the Islamophobia. I heard, you know, during my time in captivity once a discussion between French-speaking jihadis, so probably French and—or maybe of mix of French and Belgian. And that discussion was about Islamophobia in Europe. And obviously, Islamophobia was one of the main reasons for which they decided to join the Islamic State, because many of the people, the Islamic State fighters, go there and join the group in an attempt to kind of restore the Muslim pride.
AMY GOODMAN: Did you feel the jihadis were steeped in Islam?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Very little. And by the way, most of the jihadis I know, either that I met during my time in captivity or that I followed on the social media or exchanged with on the social media afterwards, are just "new" Muslims. I mean, they either converted, or they are kind of born-again Muslim. So, to be provocative, a good Muslim will not become a jihadi. I did not meet any jihadi who had a religious childhood. And religion is always kind of a vaccine—can you say?
AMY GOODMAN: Vaccine.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: And religion seems to be always almost a vaccine against terrorism, because a good religious people will never become a terrorist.
AMY GOODMAN: Your message to the Republican presidential candidates now, Donald Trump and others, who are saying the refugee flow must be cut off?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, they are playing the game of ISIS. They are just playing it. So—
AMY GOODMAN: Because?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Because they—welcoming refugees is kind of a vaccine against terrorism.
AMY GOODMAN: And why so many jihadists come from France?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: That’s a difficult question to answer. Maybe because of the proximity of the—of Syria. It’s not difficult to travel from France to Syria, from Western Europe to Syria. And also it’s probably a problem of sociology. It’s probably also the result of social problems that we can have in France. It’s also probably, to some extent, the result of bad policies, with, indeed, some marginalization of Muslims. And there have been likely some failures, as well, from the security services.
AMY GOODMAN: What would you say to young Europeans who want to join, who what to become jihadists?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: This is a very important message. Basically, ISIS will recruit you, telling you jihad is cool, because, yes, it’s cool, if you have no life, no girlfriend, no job, no money, nothing in your home country, and ISIS promises you, what, adventure, engagement, a girl, a car, a weapon, power, money, whatever. So, they all play like jihad is cool. And my answer is: ISIS is a scam, because ISIS does not really fight Assad, does not protect the Muslims in Syria, but kills, to wide extent, a number of Muslims in Syria. ISIS is a disaster for the Syrian people. So, for those who want to join ISIS, I tell them, "I understand the reason for your rage, because, yes, there are many reasons actually to be unhappy about both your life in the West or both the situation in Syria and these civilians being massacred in huge numbers. But ISIS will just make you make this crisis bigger."
AMY GOODMAN: French journalist Nicolas Hénin, held for 10 months by ISIS in Syria.
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Airstrikes Against Syria are a Trap, Warns Former ISIS Hostage Nicolas Hénin
In a rare televised Oval Office address on Sunday, President Obama laid out a defense of the U.S. war against the self-proclaimed Islamic State, which he said has evolved into a new phase. He described the recent shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., which killed 14 people, as "an act of terrorism designed to kill innocent people," called on Congress to authorize the continued use of military force and outlined his plan to continue bombing Iraq and Syria areas held by the self-proclaimed Islamic State. We speak with French journalist Nicolas Hénin, who was held hostage by ISIS inside Syria for 10 months, spending much of the time locked up in a dungeon. He was held alongside U.S. journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff, who were later beheaded. Their deaths were videotaped and aired across the world. While he was held hostage, Hénin also briefly met American aid worker Kayla Mueller, who also died in captivity, possibly from a U.S.-led coalition airstrike. Hénin, who was released in April 2014 along with three other French journalists, makes an impassioned plea against bombing Syria. "All these bombings have a terrible effect," says Hénin. "We are pushing the Syrian people into the hands of ISIS."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Back in Washington, D.C., in a rare televised Oval Office address Sunday, President Obama laid out a defense of U.S. war against the self-proclaimed Islamic State. Obama said the threat posed by ISIL has evolved into a new phase. He described the recent shooting in San Bernardino, California, which killed 14 people, as, quote, "an act of terrorism designed to kill innocent people." Obama also called on Congress to authorize the continued use of military force, and outlined his plan to continue bombing Iraq and Syria areas held by the self-proclaimed Islamic State.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: First, our military will continue to hunt down terrorist plotters in any country where it is necessary. In Iraq and Syria, airstrikes are taking out ISIL leaders, heavy weapons, oil tankers, infrastructure. And since the attacks in Paris, our closest allies, including France, Germany and the United Kingdom, have ramped up their contributions to our military campaign, which will help us accelerate our effort to destroy ISIL.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s President Obama speaking on Sunday night. Well, hours after the speech, I interviewed French journalist Nicolas Hénin. He was held hostage by ISIS inside Syria for 10 months, spending much of that time locked up in a dungeon. He was held alongside U.S. journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff, who were later beheaded. Their deaths were videotaped and aired across the world. While he was held hostage, Nicolas Hénin also briefly met American aid worker Kayla Mueller, who also died in captivity, possibly from a U.S.-led coalition airstrike. Nicolas Hénin was released in April 2014 along with three other French journalists. I began by asking Nicolas if airstrikes are the answer to combating the Islamic State.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Airstrikes in Syria, the way they are done, are a mistake. I’m not saying that our countries should deprive themselves from any military option. No. The military action should remain in the panel of the strategy. It should be kept as one way to counter terrorism. But the point is that in a counterterrorism strategy, the military shall remain a very little part of the overall strategy, because, eventually, what kind of fight are we fighting? That’s a fight for propaganda. So, basically, the side that will—the party that will win this war is not the party that will fight harder or have the most expensive or newest weaponry or the bravest fighters. It will be the party that will manage to have the people on its side. And the problem is that with all these bombings—because everybody at the moment is bombing Syria—all of these bombings have a terrible side effect. And basically, we—Westerners, but not only Westerners, also the Russians, also the regime—are pushing the Syrian people into the hands of ISIS. We are working for them. We are recruiting for them. So, I’m not saying, no, absolutely, for any strike, but strikes should remain minimal, because we should keep in mind what are the consequences and the side effects of them.
AMY GOODMAN: You have called them, these strikes, a trap.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Yes, very much. And I called them, especially in the French environment, because just two months ago President Hollande, the French president, advocated for the strikes, and he announced to my fellow countrymen that these strikes were aiming at securing our country, at making it safer, because he said it’s better to fight the terrorists of ISIS there in Syria, so that we don’t have to fight them here at home. And what is the consequence? We have seen, with the Paris attacks, that these strikes probably contributed to designate us, the French people, even further as a target for ISIS. So these strikes were counterproductive.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what is the answer, Nicolas?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: The answer is to engage the people, to address especially their cry for—their desperate call for freedom, democracy and, first of all, on a very short term, security. Over the last four-and-a-half years, Syrian people have been massacred at the pace of 200 people per day. That’s even higher than the death toll of the Paris attack. This is something we have to address first, because these 200 people killed every day are the reason for the—the primary reason for the success of ISIS.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about what happened to you in June of 2013.
NICOLAS HÉNIN: Bad, bad memory. I mean, I—it’s—I was just taken, and I—
AMY GOODMAN: Where were you?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: I was in Raqqa, so one of the—well, the Syrian capital city of the Islamic State. And I was reporting. That was my fifth trip to Syria since the beginning of the revolution. And they have taken me. I tried to escape on the third day, so of course they were not happy. And I’ve been moved and moved and moved. And also some people have been moved with me, and eventually, we found out, being two dozen Westerners hostages together, journalists or aid workers.
AMY GOODMAN: Why did you open your book with James Foley?
NICOLAS HÉNIN: James was the first to be murdered, and that was a trauma, a personal trauma to me, but also a trauma for the world. And this is why I open my book with him, because the aim of the Islamic State by murdering him was to open a trap wide open and under our feet. They wanted to impose their agenda on us. They wanted to stone us, that we are so much shocked that we stop acting rationally. Because, you know, Amy, there is something very specific with a terror action. The success, the completion of a terrorist attack, does not depend on its perpetrators, but it depends on its victims.
The beautiful example for that is the aftermath of 9/11. I mean, how did the Bush administration react after 9/11? We had the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, that later became the birthplace of the Islamic State. We had Guantánamo, extraordinary rendition and the PATRIOT Act. I mean, one must be totally stupid to believe that we punished Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, invading Iraq and Afghanistan. And even the opposite: The real success on 9/11, this is not the collapse of the twin towers; the real success of 9/11, this is the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. And this was not made by the terrorists. This success is only due to the victim. The Americans were victims of the terrorists, but they offered to their aggressors their success. And this is something that we shall always keep in mind every time we are hit by a major terrorist attack: What want our aggressor us to do? What would you like me to do, and how shall I react to displease him?
AMY GOODMAN: French journalist, ISIS hostage, Nicolas Hénin. We’ll be back with him in 15 seconds.
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President Obama Calls San Bernardino Shooting "Act of Terrorism"
In a rare live speech from the Oval Office Sunday night, President Obama called Wednesday’s mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, an act of terrorism. The shooting killed 14 people at the Inland Regional Center, a facility that provides services to people with disabilities. Obama said, in response, he would increase airstrikes against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, even though he acknowledged there was "no evidence" that ISIS had directed the attack.
President Obama: "So far, we have no evidence that the killers were directed by a terrorist organization overseas or that they were part of a broader conspiracy here at home."
Obama also cautioned against Islamophobia and vowed not to get pulled into a ground war in Iraq or Syria.
President Obama: "We should not be drawn once more into a long and costly ground war in Iraq or Syria. That’s what groups like ISIL want."
We’ll get response from Nicolas Hénin, a French journalist who was held hostage by ISIS for 10 months, later in the broadcast.
London Police Investigating Knife Attack in Metro Station
In London, police are investigating Saturday’s knife attack on a man at an East London metro station as a terrorist attack. The police say they were told the attacker shouted, "This is for Syria." Richard Walton, counterterrorism police chief, said the attacker’s motives are still unknown.
Richard Walton: "It’s too early to be absolutely certain about the motives for this attack. Obviously, the Counter Terrorism Command is investigating it. We’ve got a number of lines of inquiry, and we’re pursuing this investigation with some speed to determine what happened, how it happened, and particularly the motive that lies behind the attack."
Syria: Dozens Die in Airstrikes by Assad Gov’t & U.S.-Led Coalition
In Syria, dozens of people have died in airstrikes over the weekend. Syrian government airstrikes killed at least 14 people in Douma and Aleppo. U.S.-led airstrikes have killed at least three Syrian government soldiers in Damascus, according to Assad’s government. U.S.-led strikes have also killed more than 30 people in Raqqa who the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says were ISIS fighters. Meanwhile, the Observatory says that since September 30, Russian airstrikes have killed more than 400 civilians, including nearly 100 children.
France: Le Pen’s Far-Right Party Wins 30% Vote in Regional Elections
In France, Marine Le Pen’s far-right party, the National Front, secured 30 percent of the vote in the first round of regional elections on Sunday, marking a major boost for the anti-immigration party. One poll showed the party coming in first place in at least six out of France’s 13 regions. Recent polls have shown anti-immigration parties gaining support across Europe, including in Austria, Czech Republic, Holland, Poland, Slovakia, Sweden and Switzerland.
Venezuela: Right-Wing Opposition Wins Majority in National Assembly
Meanwhile, in Venezuela, the right-wing opposition party seized a majority in the National Assembly for the first time in years, winning 99 out of the 167 seats in Sunday’s elections. The ruling socialist party won only 46 seats. President Nicolás Maduro accepted the election results, saying they did not signal an end to the Bolivarian revolution that began when Hugo Chávez was elected in 1999.
Climate Negotiators Approve Draft Text for Global Accord
Here at the U.N. climate change summit in Paris, France, negotiators have approved draft text for what they hope will form an accord to curb global carbon emissions by the end of this week. The lengthy document still contains more than 900 square brackets to signify areas of disagreement that still need to be resolved. Contentious issues include financing for developing countries, the precise carbon emission reduction targets, and whether or not the text will outline different responsibilities for developing and developed countries. We’ll have more on the COP21 later in the broadcast.
Belgium: 10,000 March to Demand Action at U.N. Climate Summit
Ten thousand people marched in the Belgian city of Ostend on Sunday, calling for an ambitious accord at the U.N. climate summit. Hundreds more people also marched Saturday in the eastern suburbs of Paris. Protests are still banned in downtown Paris and the area surrounding the U.N. climate summit itself.
India and Britain Hit by Historic Deadly Flooding
In India, the air force has resumed rescue operations in the southern state of Tamil Nadu as heavy rains and flooding continue. The state is experiencing the worst flooding in a century, which has killed more than 250 people. Prime Minister Narendra Modi has blamed the flooding on climate change. This comes as Britain has also mobilized the army to respond to heavy flooding in the hard-hit northwest town of Cumbria. Local officials say it’s the worst flooding they’ve ever seen.
Azerbaijan: 32 People Die in Offshore Oil Rig Explosion
Off the coast of Azerbaijan, 32 people have died after an offshore oil platform went up in flames in the Caspian Sea Saturday. The rig is operated by Azerbaijan’s state energy company SOCAR. The fire started after heavy winds damaged a gas pipeline on the platform. A severe storm hampered rescue operations.
Israeli Authorities Kill Palestinian, as Swedish PM Warns of "Extrajudicial Executions"
Swedish Foreign Minister Margot Wallström has condemned Israel’s response to recent Palestinian knife attacks, saying: "The response cannot be ... extrajudicial executions." This comes as Israeli authorities have killed a Palestinian man who authorities say lightly wounded a man in West Jerusalem. Over the last two months, 109 Palestinians and 19 Israelis have been killed.
North Carolina: Protesters Interrupt Donald Trump’s Speech 10 Times
In Raleigh, North Carolina, Republican front-runner Donald Trump ended a campaign speech and walked off stage after protesters interrupted him 10 separate times. Some of the protesters chanted "All Lives Will Matter When Black Lives Matter." Others called on Trump to "Stop the Hate." Trump repeatedly stopped his speech to respond to the protests.
Donald Trump: "These are not people. Just remember that. Oh, here’s another one. Here’s another one. Look at this guy. Get him out!"
Justice Dept. to Launch Wide-Ranging Investigation of Chicago Police
The Justice Department is expected to launch a wide-ranging investigation into the Chicago Police Department, following protests over the police killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald, who was shot 16 times by white police officer Jason Van Dyke more than a year ago. Dash cam video, only recently released by court order, clearly contradicts police claims about the shooting, showing the teenager posing no threat and walking away from the officers at a distance as Officer Van Dyke jumps out of his police car and opens fire. The controversy has ousted the Chicago police chief and led to growing calls for Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s resignation.
Citing Torture and Trauma, Asylum Seekers Detained in Australia Plea for "Assisted Suicide"
In Australia, an immigration lawyer has posted an open letter signed by hundreds of asylum seekers imprisoned at the Manus Island detention center on an Australian naval base in Papua New Guinea calling for mass assisted suicide by gas chamber, poison injection or being dumped at sea. An asylum seeker said he wrote the open letter because detention authorities recently told him and others that no country in the world would accept them. He said, "So when we found out they will keep doing this and we will be experiencing gradual death for the rest of our lives in here, why not ask them to execute us instead?"
Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter Says Recent Scan is Cancer-Free
And former U.S. President Jimmy Carter says his recent brain scan showed no signs of cancer. The 91-year-old Carter has been undergoing treatment for liver cancer that had spread to his brain. He revealed his cancer-free scan just before teaching Sunday school class at a Baptist church in his hometown of Plains, Georgia.
Jimmy Carter: "When I went this week, they didn’t find any cancer at all, so I have good news. So a lot of people prayed for me, and I appreciate that. So that’s what we’ve been doing, but I wanted to tell you the good news because that happened this week."
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