"Weekly Recap" for Tuesday, March 22, 2016 of ProgressiveChristianity.org of Gig Harbor, Washington, United States "Do you believe in Hell? This and more in our Free Weekly Recap of our most viewed and new resources from last week."
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Repent or Perish and The Parable of the Barren Fig TreeMatthew Fox
The combination of these 2 stories – the martyrdom and the fig tree – speaks right into the heart of what it means to be a follower of Jesus today.
READ ON ... Repent or Perish and The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree
Compassion over rules by Matthew Fox
Luke 13:1-9
Repent or Perish
1 At that very time there were some present who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 He asked them, ‘Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way they were worse sinners than all other Galileans? 3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as they did. 4 Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam fell on them-do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish just as they did.’
The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree
6 Then he told this parable: ‘A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and found none. 7 So he said to the gardener, “See here! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree, and still I find none. Cut it down! Why should it be wasting the soil?” 8 He replied, “Sir, let it alone for one more year, until I dig round it and put manure on it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.”‘
Continuing Matthew Fox’s study of his 95 Theses:
No. 12 “Jesus does not call us to a new religion, but to life” [Dietrich Bonhoeffer]. Spirituality is living life at a depth of newness and gratitude, courage and creativity, trust and letting go, compassion and justice.
No. 13 Spirituality and religion are not the same any more than education and learning, law and justice, or commerce and stewardship are the same.
No. 61 Interconnectivity is not only a law of physics and of nature, but also forms the basis of community and compassion. Compassion is the working out of our shared interconnectivity, both as to our shared joy and our shared suffering and struggle for justice.
Sometime ago I saw a television production of Shakespeare’s ‘Macbeth’ starring Harriet Walter and Antony Sher. This was the Royal Shakespeare Company recorded at the Roundhouse in London. The scene in which Macbeth murders Duncan is an act of almost indescribable revulsion. It is the depth of wickedness very nearly too awful for words. It grips both the characters in the play and the audience looking on.
Then the tension is broken with a hammering upon the castle gate. The porter shuffles his way across the stage speaking of being like the doorkeeper at the gate of hell itself. Finally he opens the gate and both Macduff and Lennox enter. Then the blackness of the evil is lightened by the porter’s short but coarse, colourful and comical description of the influence of intoxicating drink. It is a scene that speaks of desire, lechery and, for some reason known to Shakespeare, nose painting!
The importance of this scene is the indication that although evil is present it will not triumph forever. In the presence of death there is the reminder that life goes on and there will come a day [but not necessarily this day] when goodness and hope will triumph.
Shakespeare used this theatrical technique to excellent effect, and Luke used a similar process in this chapter 13 reading from his gospel. Here we have both the dire warnings to repent or be confronted by eternal punishment, immediately followed by a plea of compassion: “Sir, leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.”
This is a clever literary creation used by Luke to cause maximum impact upon his audience by contrasting the warning of judgement with the comfort of compassion. But why is it that only Luke has this particular story dealing with the martyrdom of Galilean worshippers while they were offering sacrifices to their Yahweh God?
Perhaps Luke was addressing needs within his own community of followers of the Way of Jesus? Perhaps Luke was bringing to mind an all too real incident in which Pilate had killed them because they upheld the traditional Jewish religious approach that stated holiness by separation as ‘their way’ of attaining once again national and religious survival and self-determination, and as such, Pilate rightly accused them and their actions as being insurrection against Roman Imperial rule and domination.
Also, it should be noted that there was a tendency for the Pharisees to see that people deserved what life did to them. Therefore, by this reasoning, those Galilean worshippers killed by Pilate must have offended Yahweh in some way or other and therefore they were not to be offered any pity.
However, it is significant that, according to Luke, Jesus pointed out that those who were martyred were no worse or no better than anyone else! For Luke, here was Jesus undermining yet more of the Pharisaic approach to life, religion and tradition.
We need to remember that Luke was writing within the context of both Roman occupation and growing tensions within the synagogues that were resulting in Jewish and gentile followers of the Jewish Jesus sect being expelled from their synagogues. To the traditional ‘exclusive’ Pharisaic Jews, it was the inclusiveness of Jesus and his followers that was threatening the whole future of Judaism.
But also, Luke may have been meeting head-on some of the Jewish followers of the Way of Jesus in Antioch who maintained the traditional understanding of Jewish separation as the road to holiness and self-determination.
Luke was reminding such exclusive followers of the Jewish Jesus sect that Yahweh God’s universal love and acceptance was for all people, so fully demonstrated by the works and words of Jesus. Perhaps this was why Luke was calling for repentance?
As I study the gospels I increasingly see that in his early ministry Jesus had maintained the Jewish holiness code of separation from gentiles. That gradually changed with new spiritual insights as he increasingly mingled with the despised, the rejected and the excluded. Samaritans, Romans, prostitutes and tax collectors all helped to educate Jesus into the broader vision of Yahweh God’s love and concern for all.
This was Luke’s message repeated over and over again, reflecting upon how problematic it had been for him as a gentile ‘Yahweh God-fearer’ to be accepted amongst the synagogue-based followers of the Jewish Jesus sect in Antioch.
Also, perhaps at the time that Luke was writing there were some in Antioch who wanted to follow Jesus but who also wanted to avoid the associated hardship of the true cost of following him completely? Perhaps this is why Luke referenced those Galilean worshippers martyred for their faith?
But let us think for a moment about the story of the fig tree. It represented those within and beyond the synagogue in Antioch who were rejecting the radical inclusive social and religious message of Jesus. In the story, such people stood condemned by the man [a metaphor for Yahweh God, the Judge of all], but it was the gardener [a metaphor for Jesus] who was pleading for a little more time so that the tree could be nurtured and fruit would grow.
This was Luke’s literary counter-balance between judgement and compassion. Notice again Luke’s literary construction: there is a profound warning to repent or else, followed by the comfort of Yahweh God’s compassion towards all. Many will know the weight of one’s personal transgressions and feelings of guilt being suddenly lifted by the experience that Jesus is all compassion! However, there was a further warning in Luke’s message to the Jewish Jesus sect: an awareness of such love was no excuse to continue wilfully abusing such compassion and mercy.
So what has all of this to do with us today? Unlike Luke, we live in relative peace. Unlike Luke, we are not persecuted. I cannot tell you what this story means for you but this I know, the story should speak to each one of us in different ways.
It speaks to me by reminding me that in the wisdom of Jesus the most powerful weapons available to individuals to help us to change for the better are compassion, mercy, gentleness of spirit, inclusiveness and unconditional love.
But sadly in a world dominated by might, money, and power, some people look upon compassion, mercy, gentleness of spirit, inclusiveness and unconditional love as weakness. In a world blighted by terrorism, war and indescribable brutality demonstrated day by day, for example in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan; in a world where many have become indifferent, self righteous and just downright selfish; in a world where Bible passages are taken out of context to uphold racism, sexism, homophobia and unhealthy nationalism: these are the places in which compassion, mercy, gentleness of spirit, inclusiveness and unconditional love should work and speak.
In the terminology of Luke’s Gospel compassion is not simply a noun but it is a verb – for example, for me it is about being active in times of relative peace to ensure that any future war is avoided. If this rings true for you then surely we are to struggle against everything that is unjust; we are to challenge all that creates barriers; we should demand equality and fairness in, for example, provision of adequate health services and education. The list is endless.
Compassion such as this will cost us greatly in time, money and effort because it brings us into conflict with the values of this world. Compassion is not about some simplistic touchy feely, love everybody mentality. As one who spent my formative teenage years in the early 1960s, I know that compassion is not about wearing flowers in the hair if you go to San Francisco – if you are old enough to remember Scott MacKenzie’s record!
Compassion hurts. Compassion includes being angry that the majority of people suffer as a result of having too little while we, among the minority have too much – angry enough to do something about it.
Compassion is not about segregation or superiority or the sense that, because we have accepted some religious ideas and said certain religious prayers ‘we are the chosen but others are not’.
The role of the Christian Church in our contemporary world is not so much to do with propagating systems of outdated belief, of setting up barriers to decide who is ‘in’ and who is ‘out’. The Church should be encouraging and enabling ordinary people to do extraordinary things as we live and practice compassion as a way of life: compassion that is inclusive and not exclusive, based upon our experience of the Yahweh God we meet in Jesus. Compassion is to be preached by actions before any words are used.
The combination of these 2 stories – the martyrdom and the fig tree – speaks right into the heart of what it means to be a follower of Jesus today. To follow the way of Jesus is a way of immense blessing – the way of the gardener pleading for the fig tree to be given another chance – but such blessings come at the great price of constant daily dying to self. For some it can also be the way of the Galilean worshippers: the way of the ultimate price of martyrdom.
Dr Martin Luther King Jnr. said, “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.”
Copyright ©: 2016, Rev John Churcher All rights reserved. New Revised Standard Version Bible: Anglicised Edition, copyright © 1989, 1995 the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
A Mock Conversation about Hell
Matthew Distefano
... I cannot wrap my head around anything short of ultimate redemption. Not annihilation, not eternal torment, but universal reconciliation.
READ ON ... Author’s note: Because I hold to the doctrine of universal reconciliation—and brazenly so—I take a lot of heat from a lot of fellow Christians. Not only do I get to hear how I am a “wolf in sheep’s clothing,” “a false prophet,” and even, “a satanist”—how spooky!—but I then get to deal with what I call “machine-gun questioning.” What I mean by that is, for example, if I am talking about Pauline theology, arguing that it is much more inclusive then most would admit, I often receive question after question about non-Pauline passages such as the Parable of the Sheep and the (baby) Goats and Mark 9:42–50. This becomes quite frustrating because A) I don’t really have time to exegete everything for everyone B) It makes me feel stupid—as if I haven’t spend countless hours working through all of the troubling New Testament texts and C) What does it have to do with what Paul thought?
Now, all that being said, I do enjoy being (politely) questioned, critiqued, and pushed-back on. Before I published my first book, All Set Free, I sent my manuscript to scholars near and far. And that was the best thing I could have done, as I received amazing critique from the likes of Anthony Bartlett, Brad Jersak, and others, even those who don’t agree with me on certain things. So being questioned about my theology is something I actually look forward to. And that includes being questioned about hell.
That is where this article comes in. What I have done, is I have laid out a mock conversation between myself and a questioning lay-Christian. I don’t say that as a slight, but as a description of many Christians who don’t really study theology all that much. This believer’s main contention, as you will see, will be that I cannot possibly conclude that all will be saved, as the bible clearly states that some will in fact be lost (to eternal conscious torment in this case). But, unlike many of my experiences, this conversation will be respectful, and so the fruit of it will be no doubt good. I may not sway Mr. Christian, as I have generically named him, but I will at least have said what I would want to say, all due to his respectful nature.
Joe Christian: Matt, I’ve read a few of your posts on Facebook and you seem to think that everyone will be saved. How can you say that? Doesn’t Jesus teach about hell more than he teaches about heaven?
Matt Distefano: Well, no, that is actually a myth. My friend and colleague Dan Wilkinsontallied things up and, out of 1,944 New Testament verses attributed to Jesus, only three percent are potentially about hell. Passages related to “heaven” come in at nearly ten percent. That being said, I don’t want to skirt what you are getting at. Jesus did talk about judgment and used “fiery” language, so which passage would you like to talk about, specifically?
JC (and yes, I made his initials “JC” on purpose): How about Mark 9:42–50? I mean, c’mon! Jesus talks about tossing yourself into the sea and being thrown into hell should you continue in your sin.
MD: Okay, but we have to back up a second and discuss the word translated as “hell.” That comes from the Greek word Gehenna (in Hebrew, it is the Valley of Hinnom) and is an actual valley south of Jerusalem. Its history is a nasty one, having once been the place where children were sacrificed to Molech (2 Chronicles 28:3). Gehenna also has a history of being a fiery trash dump because, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians, the bodies of those killed were literally burned in the valley. Later, in 70 CE, in come the Romans and wash, rinse, repeat, Jerusalem falls again. Into Gehenna they go!
JC: I’ve heard all that before, but isn’t Jesus’ usage about judgment applied to the afterlife too?
MD: Sure, I will concede that. Before I comment, though, I want to say that I believe Jesus’ primary focus was on the literal destruction that was to befall Jerusalem. I don’t want to downplay that. Brad Jersak finds evidence of this in the fact that Jesus “cites or alludes to every chapter in Jeremiah where Hinnom is mentioned.” And for Jeremiah, Hinnom was all about real destruction in real time and space by real armies.
That being said, even if Jesus is drawing on the Enoch tradition, as you allude to in your question, doesn’t he then flip this tradition on its head in verses 49–50? Doesn’t Jesus, after all of the body-part-chopping-off talk, say that we are all going to have to pass through the fire? (And might I mention, isn’t it odd that nobody is suggesting Jesus wants us to literally chop our body parts off, but that if we aren’t “saved,” that we will end up in a literal fire?) But back to my main point: doesn’t Jesus say that fire produces salt in us and that this salt is actually good? By the way, this would be in line, then, with how Paul also talks about fire in 1 Corinthians 3:12–13. So what I believe Jesus is doing is subverting the dualistic eschatological view of the Enoch tradition, where the wicked are smote by God (Which, by the way, as Jersak points out, does not last forever but “typically had a time limit of 12–18 months, after which the damned would either be freed or consumed (based on a text from Zechariah 13.”))
What I’m trying to say, is that I essentially believe Jesus is teaching: “Heed my warnings or you will literally end up in Gehenna, just like before. But also, get rid of those things that cause you to stumble or lest you risk having them burned off later.”
JC: Hmmm . . . interesting. I just hope that you are not downplaying the warnings at all.
MD: Of course not! I just think that a quick reading of something like this will not suffice if we are to understand all of the layers of depth in the teaching. But I take the warnings quite seriously, affirming both the “here and now” and “after this life” implications of what Jesus teaches here.
JC: So, do you not then believe someone has to accept Jesus in order to earn salvation?
MD: Well, personally, I do not think anyone can do anything in order to earn salvation. I believe salvation is a free gift of grace. The Calvinists would agree with me there. I just think it is offered to all.
JC: Yeah, offered, but you still have to accept it.
MD: Well, I think that is for a different discussion. Did you have any more specific passages that you wanted to ask me about?
JC: Sure. Don’t you think that if you choose to be wicked here in this life, that there should be consequences for that? Shouldn’t there be punishment and isn’t that what something like the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats teaches?
MD: Good question. First, I think there are great consequences for wickedness. Or, in other words, there are great consequences for not being loving, for neglecting the “least of these,” for instance. There are not only real-life consequences, here and now—just look at our city streets—but there are also “eternal” consequences. I put scare quotes around “eternal” because that is the type of “punishment” the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats mentions. Matthew 25:46 states (as you are no doubt aware): “And these [the goats] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
JC: Yeah, that is the one. And that has to mean that some end up in hell, because if the eternal punishment isn’t really forever, then the eternal life the righteous go to isn’t forever!
MD: Sure, you could interpret the parable in such a way. But you would have to remember: first, the point of this parable is that those who think they are in are out and those who don’t know they are in are in fact in. So my question is, are you sure you want to argue for the interpretation you are arguing for? From the looks of things, we Christians have a long way to go when it comes to “feeding the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, welcoming in strangers, clothing the naked, and visiting the sick and imprisoned.” We may be arguing for our own “eternal punishment.” Second, the phrase “eternal punishment” doesn’t really mean what you think it means. First, the Greek word aiṓnios can mean eternal, but it can also mean “pertaining to an age.” Remember the story of Jonah and the whale, it is said that Jonah was in its belly owlam, the Hebrew equivalent of aiṓnios. But Jonah 1:17 states it was for only three days that Jonah was down there. That being said, even if aiṓniosmeans eternal, it need not imply a “minute by minute” type of meaning. What I am saying is that aiṓnios has more to do with quality of something, rather than the specific quantity of it. And as for the punishment the text speaks of, I believe there is ample evidence the Greek word kolasis implies corrective punishment, or as Plato puts it, for the benefit of the one being corrected. If you are interested, I offer a deeper explanation in All Set Free, pages 97–101 specifically. You can get it from wipfandstock.com.
JC: Did you just shamelessly plug your own book?
MD: Yeah, I did. Sorry. What, is God going to burn me forever for that?
JC: Ha-ha!
MD: I’m just kidding! Do you have any more passages that trouble you or are you a Universalist yet?
JC: Not quite, buddy! Yeah, what do you do with all the passages in Revelation? You know, the ones about the lake of fire and the beast and the kings of the nations being destroyed in it?
MD: That is from Revelation 19 right?
JC: You tell me!
MD: Touché! Anyway, yes, that is from Revelation 19:19–20. I totally get it; that is a difficult passage. But, without getting into a long, drawn out discussion about the book of Revelation, I will just say a few things. First, notice how, later, in Revelation 21:24, the nations are seen inside the gates of New Jerusalem . . . i.e. “heaven,” one could say. Sure, they have to have their robes “washed in the blood of the Lamb” (Revelation 22:14), but who’s to say they don’t, as the bride perpetually invites them to “come” (Revelation 22:17) in through the always open gates (Revelation 21:25), to partake of the leaves of the tree that is for the “healing of the nations” (Revelation 22:2). And second, won’t some of those who are outside be our very own loved ones? And if we take the command to “love thine enemy” seriously, they most certainly will be. That being said, how does the writer of Revelation go on to boldly say “he will wipe every tear from their eyes?” I’ve meditated on that for a long time and I’ll tell you, I cannot wrap my head around anything short of ultimate redemption. Not annihilation, not eternal torment, but universal reconciliation. Either that or the person who penned that phrase didn’t understand human psychology at all.
JC: I understand what you are saying with that. That passage has always bothered me too.
MD: Well, I think it should bother everyone, really.
JC: True. Well, alright, it has been fun. Thank you for talking and for clarifying some things you believe. I wouldn’t say I agree, but I understand where you are coming from.
MD: Thank you. Peace and blessings.
JC: You too!
Worship Materials: Spring
... I cannot wrap my head around anything short of ultimate redemption. Not annihilation, not eternal torment, but universal reconciliation.
READ ON ... Author’s note: Because I hold to the doctrine of universal reconciliation—and brazenly so—I take a lot of heat from a lot of fellow Christians. Not only do I get to hear how I am a “wolf in sheep’s clothing,” “a false prophet,” and even, “a satanist”—how spooky!—but I then get to deal with what I call “machine-gun questioning.” What I mean by that is, for example, if I am talking about Pauline theology, arguing that it is much more inclusive then most would admit, I often receive question after question about non-Pauline passages such as the Parable of the Sheep and the (baby) Goats and Mark 9:42–50. This becomes quite frustrating because A) I don’t really have time to exegete everything for everyone B) It makes me feel stupid—as if I haven’t spend countless hours working through all of the troubling New Testament texts and C) What does it have to do with what Paul thought?
Now, all that being said, I do enjoy being (politely) questioned, critiqued, and pushed-back on. Before I published my first book, All Set Free, I sent my manuscript to scholars near and far. And that was the best thing I could have done, as I received amazing critique from the likes of Anthony Bartlett, Brad Jersak, and others, even those who don’t agree with me on certain things. So being questioned about my theology is something I actually look forward to. And that includes being questioned about hell.
That is where this article comes in. What I have done, is I have laid out a mock conversation between myself and a questioning lay-Christian. I don’t say that as a slight, but as a description of many Christians who don’t really study theology all that much. This believer’s main contention, as you will see, will be that I cannot possibly conclude that all will be saved, as the bible clearly states that some will in fact be lost (to eternal conscious torment in this case). But, unlike many of my experiences, this conversation will be respectful, and so the fruit of it will be no doubt good. I may not sway Mr. Christian, as I have generically named him, but I will at least have said what I would want to say, all due to his respectful nature.
Joe Christian: Matt, I’ve read a few of your posts on Facebook and you seem to think that everyone will be saved. How can you say that? Doesn’t Jesus teach about hell more than he teaches about heaven?
Matt Distefano: Well, no, that is actually a myth. My friend and colleague Dan Wilkinsontallied things up and, out of 1,944 New Testament verses attributed to Jesus, only three percent are potentially about hell. Passages related to “heaven” come in at nearly ten percent. That being said, I don’t want to skirt what you are getting at. Jesus did talk about judgment and used “fiery” language, so which passage would you like to talk about, specifically?
JC (and yes, I made his initials “JC” on purpose): How about Mark 9:42–50? I mean, c’mon! Jesus talks about tossing yourself into the sea and being thrown into hell should you continue in your sin.
MD: Okay, but we have to back up a second and discuss the word translated as “hell.” That comes from the Greek word Gehenna (in Hebrew, it is the Valley of Hinnom) and is an actual valley south of Jerusalem. Its history is a nasty one, having once been the place where children were sacrificed to Molech (2 Chronicles 28:3). Gehenna also has a history of being a fiery trash dump because, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians, the bodies of those killed were literally burned in the valley. Later, in 70 CE, in come the Romans and wash, rinse, repeat, Jerusalem falls again. Into Gehenna they go!
JC: I’ve heard all that before, but isn’t Jesus’ usage about judgment applied to the afterlife too?
MD: Sure, I will concede that. Before I comment, though, I want to say that I believe Jesus’ primary focus was on the literal destruction that was to befall Jerusalem. I don’t want to downplay that. Brad Jersak finds evidence of this in the fact that Jesus “cites or alludes to every chapter in Jeremiah where Hinnom is mentioned.” And for Jeremiah, Hinnom was all about real destruction in real time and space by real armies.
That being said, even if Jesus is drawing on the Enoch tradition, as you allude to in your question, doesn’t he then flip this tradition on its head in verses 49–50? Doesn’t Jesus, after all of the body-part-chopping-off talk, say that we are all going to have to pass through the fire? (And might I mention, isn’t it odd that nobody is suggesting Jesus wants us to literally chop our body parts off, but that if we aren’t “saved,” that we will end up in a literal fire?) But back to my main point: doesn’t Jesus say that fire produces salt in us and that this salt is actually good? By the way, this would be in line, then, with how Paul also talks about fire in 1 Corinthians 3:12–13. So what I believe Jesus is doing is subverting the dualistic eschatological view of the Enoch tradition, where the wicked are smote by God (Which, by the way, as Jersak points out, does not last forever but “typically had a time limit of 12–18 months, after which the damned would either be freed or consumed (based on a text from Zechariah 13.”))
What I’m trying to say, is that I essentially believe Jesus is teaching: “Heed my warnings or you will literally end up in Gehenna, just like before. But also, get rid of those things that cause you to stumble or lest you risk having them burned off later.”
JC: Hmmm . . . interesting. I just hope that you are not downplaying the warnings at all.
MD: Of course not! I just think that a quick reading of something like this will not suffice if we are to understand all of the layers of depth in the teaching. But I take the warnings quite seriously, affirming both the “here and now” and “after this life” implications of what Jesus teaches here.
JC: So, do you not then believe someone has to accept Jesus in order to earn salvation?
MD: Well, personally, I do not think anyone can do anything in order to earn salvation. I believe salvation is a free gift of grace. The Calvinists would agree with me there. I just think it is offered to all.
JC: Yeah, offered, but you still have to accept it.
MD: Well, I think that is for a different discussion. Did you have any more specific passages that you wanted to ask me about?
JC: Sure. Don’t you think that if you choose to be wicked here in this life, that there should be consequences for that? Shouldn’t there be punishment and isn’t that what something like the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats teaches?
MD: Good question. First, I think there are great consequences for wickedness. Or, in other words, there are great consequences for not being loving, for neglecting the “least of these,” for instance. There are not only real-life consequences, here and now—just look at our city streets—but there are also “eternal” consequences. I put scare quotes around “eternal” because that is the type of “punishment” the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats mentions. Matthew 25:46 states (as you are no doubt aware): “And these [the goats] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
JC: Yeah, that is the one. And that has to mean that some end up in hell, because if the eternal punishment isn’t really forever, then the eternal life the righteous go to isn’t forever!
MD: Sure, you could interpret the parable in such a way. But you would have to remember: first, the point of this parable is that those who think they are in are out and those who don’t know they are in are in fact in. So my question is, are you sure you want to argue for the interpretation you are arguing for? From the looks of things, we Christians have a long way to go when it comes to “feeding the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, welcoming in strangers, clothing the naked, and visiting the sick and imprisoned.” We may be arguing for our own “eternal punishment.” Second, the phrase “eternal punishment” doesn’t really mean what you think it means. First, the Greek word aiṓnios can mean eternal, but it can also mean “pertaining to an age.” Remember the story of Jonah and the whale, it is said that Jonah was in its belly owlam, the Hebrew equivalent of aiṓnios. But Jonah 1:17 states it was for only three days that Jonah was down there. That being said, even if aiṓniosmeans eternal, it need not imply a “minute by minute” type of meaning. What I am saying is that aiṓnios has more to do with quality of something, rather than the specific quantity of it. And as for the punishment the text speaks of, I believe there is ample evidence the Greek word kolasis implies corrective punishment, or as Plato puts it, for the benefit of the one being corrected. If you are interested, I offer a deeper explanation in All Set Free, pages 97–101 specifically. You can get it from wipfandstock.com.
JC: Did you just shamelessly plug your own book?
MD: Yeah, I did. Sorry. What, is God going to burn me forever for that?
JC: Ha-ha!
MD: I’m just kidding! Do you have any more passages that trouble you or are you a Universalist yet?
JC: Not quite, buddy! Yeah, what do you do with all the passages in Revelation? You know, the ones about the lake of fire and the beast and the kings of the nations being destroyed in it?
MD: That is from Revelation 19 right?
JC: You tell me!
MD: Touché! Anyway, yes, that is from Revelation 19:19–20. I totally get it; that is a difficult passage. But, without getting into a long, drawn out discussion about the book of Revelation, I will just say a few things. First, notice how, later, in Revelation 21:24, the nations are seen inside the gates of New Jerusalem . . . i.e. “heaven,” one could say. Sure, they have to have their robes “washed in the blood of the Lamb” (Revelation 22:14), but who’s to say they don’t, as the bride perpetually invites them to “come” (Revelation 22:17) in through the always open gates (Revelation 21:25), to partake of the leaves of the tree that is for the “healing of the nations” (Revelation 22:2). And second, won’t some of those who are outside be our very own loved ones? And if we take the command to “love thine enemy” seriously, they most certainly will be. That being said, how does the writer of Revelation go on to boldly say “he will wipe every tear from their eyes?” I’ve meditated on that for a long time and I’ll tell you, I cannot wrap my head around anything short of ultimate redemption. Not annihilation, not eternal torment, but universal reconciliation. Either that or the person who penned that phrase didn’t understand human psychology at all.
JC: I understand what you are saying with that. That passage has always bothered me too.
MD: Well, I think it should bother everyone, really.
JC: True. Well, alright, it has been fun. Thank you for talking and for clarifying some things you believe. I wouldn’t say I agree, but I understand where you are coming from.
MD: Thank you. Peace and blessings.
JC: You too!
Worship Materials: Spring
William L. Wallace
From the Seasoned Celebration Collection: Reflection, Prayer, Hymns and Poems.
READ ON ... THEME The Flowing Sap
THOUGHTS FOR REFLECTION
The fragrance of Spring lies not in judgement’s intervention but in love’s nurturing of the interior goodness.
Spring is not so much a moment as a movement, a manifestation of the sometimes hidden but always present life-force of God.
Birth is seldom painless – change always has its price.
When the mind flows like sap unlimited possibilities emerge and we become liberated from endless cycles of mechanical repetition.
Like germinating seed forcing its way through the paving, slow, gentle pressure is usually the best way to move psychological mountains.
The activist who has no depth of inner resources is like the seed that falls on barren soil.
Seriousness can inhibit the flow of our ‘spirit’s sap. Humor can enhance it.
People grow through affirmation not through judgment.
PRAYER
O God of gentle power, help us to focus our energies
so that we may break out of all confining ways of thought and blossom into fullness of life.
HYMNS
May the sap flow in our hearts. (BL)
You are the process God. (BL)
The spring will come again.
http://www.methodist.org.nz/resources/hymns/the_mystery_telling
POEMS / REFLECTIONS
NATURE’S GREEN WONDER
Nature’s green wonder – Spring!
The meeting of God
in the arteries and veins of this world,
the point where the ordinary becomes otherness
and eternity breaks into the time-serving.
It is season of recurrent renewal
when green’s myriad shades
woo us into imitating nature’s creativity,
and love’s dreams fortify us against
the souls’ inevitable winters.
LIKE THE PETALS
Like the petals of the flower I unfold,
Like the roots of the plants I draw life,
Like the leaves in the wind I dance and sing
And in it all I encounter the Christ.
SPRING PILGRIMAGE
To this place, I came
with pilgrim heart
bearing the remains
of my buried-by-paper,
programme-dissected life.
I came
to re-live past springs
of solitary childhood,
passionate adolescence
and all-too-busy adulthood.
I came to immerse myself
in a world of exquisite beauty;
of buds bursting as wide open
as birthday party eyes
of children.
But I heard
night’s blanket of stillness
pierced by the helpless
cry of a lamb and saw,
next day,
crushed grass stained by the blood
of birth.
That cry and that blood
shattered the unreal dreams
of my daffodil mind‑
(dreams of effortless creativity
and painless renewal)
instead, I heard
earth’s starving poor
urging me
to make cause
with that far greater spring,
the liberating and maturing
of the human race.
SPRING
Spring,
God’s fragile mystery of resurrection ‑
yours is the over-flowing beauty of young oaks’
filigreed foliage,
of pendant ash flowers
and the fiery emergence of poplar leaves
in all their wet-eyed wonder.
You are nature’s embryo,
a silent exaltation
of all that is
soft,
tender
and beautiful;
a golden effusion
of love and heaven,
of stillness and freshness –
the Spirit’s greening time
when Earth’s rebirth
foreshadows our own.
Each spring
approached
with joyful reverence
becomes
an epidemic
of mystery and resurrection ‑
an epidemic to which
through God’s grace
we shall succumb!
FOCUS FOR ACTION
The Easter of nature will only bring new life to our spirit if we are prepared with delight to watch its potential unfold. What are some of the potentials within our own spirituality? Do we notice the signs of change in our life? Do we discern the indicators in other people? Are we willing to share with them what we have noticed?
What is the nature of the shell which must be broken if our spirituality is to grow.
The beginnings of spiritual growth lie in affirming the Inner Christ – that of God – the I AM within us. Do we feel happy with the idea that God is in part within us or do we give to someone else the divinity that is our own and in the process effectively deny that we are Children of God?
Text and image © William Livingstone Wallace but available for free use.
Weekly Liturgy
From the Seasoned Celebration Collection: Reflection, Prayer, Hymns and Poems.
READ ON ... THEME The Flowing Sap
THOUGHTS FOR REFLECTION
The fragrance of Spring lies not in judgement’s intervention but in love’s nurturing of the interior goodness.
Spring is not so much a moment as a movement, a manifestation of the sometimes hidden but always present life-force of God.
Birth is seldom painless – change always has its price.
When the mind flows like sap unlimited possibilities emerge and we become liberated from endless cycles of mechanical repetition.
Like germinating seed forcing its way through the paving, slow, gentle pressure is usually the best way to move psychological mountains.
The activist who has no depth of inner resources is like the seed that falls on barren soil.
Seriousness can inhibit the flow of our ‘spirit’s sap. Humor can enhance it.
People grow through affirmation not through judgment.
PRAYER
O God of gentle power, help us to focus our energies
so that we may break out of all confining ways of thought and blossom into fullness of life.
HYMNS
May the sap flow in our hearts. (BL)
You are the process God. (BL)
The spring will come again.
http://www.methodist.org.nz/resources/hymns/the_mystery_telling
POEMS / REFLECTIONS
NATURE’S GREEN WONDER
Nature’s green wonder – Spring!
The meeting of God
in the arteries and veins of this world,
the point where the ordinary becomes otherness
and eternity breaks into the time-serving.
It is season of recurrent renewal
when green’s myriad shades
woo us into imitating nature’s creativity,
and love’s dreams fortify us against
the souls’ inevitable winters.
LIKE THE PETALS
Like the petals of the flower I unfold,
Like the roots of the plants I draw life,
Like the leaves in the wind I dance and sing
And in it all I encounter the Christ.
SPRING PILGRIMAGE
To this place, I came
with pilgrim heart
bearing the remains
of my buried-by-paper,
programme-dissected life.
I came
to re-live past springs
of solitary childhood,
passionate adolescence
and all-too-busy adulthood.
I came to immerse myself
in a world of exquisite beauty;
of buds bursting as wide open
as birthday party eyes
of children.
But I heard
night’s blanket of stillness
pierced by the helpless
cry of a lamb and saw,
next day,
crushed grass stained by the blood
of birth.
That cry and that blood
shattered the unreal dreams
of my daffodil mind‑
(dreams of effortless creativity
and painless renewal)
instead, I heard
earth’s starving poor
urging me
to make cause
with that far greater spring,
the liberating and maturing
of the human race.
SPRING
Spring,
God’s fragile mystery of resurrection ‑
yours is the over-flowing beauty of young oaks’
filigreed foliage,
of pendant ash flowers
and the fiery emergence of poplar leaves
in all their wet-eyed wonder.
You are nature’s embryo,
a silent exaltation
of all that is
soft,
tender
and beautiful;
a golden effusion
of love and heaven,
of stillness and freshness –
the Spirit’s greening time
when Earth’s rebirth
foreshadows our own.
Each spring
approached
with joyful reverence
becomes
an epidemic
of mystery and resurrection ‑
an epidemic to which
through God’s grace
we shall succumb!
FOCUS FOR ACTION
The Easter of nature will only bring new life to our spirit if we are prepared with delight to watch its potential unfold. What are some of the potentials within our own spirituality? Do we notice the signs of change in our life? Do we discern the indicators in other people? Are we willing to share with them what we have noticed?
What is the nature of the shell which must be broken if our spirituality is to grow.
The beginnings of spiritual growth lie in affirming the Inner Christ – that of God – the I AM within us. Do we feel happy with the idea that God is in part within us or do we give to someone else the divinity that is our own and in the process effectively deny that we are Children of God?
Text and image © William Livingstone Wallace but available for free use.
Weekly Liturgy
Week of: March 13,2016
Jesus as Healer
Body, mind, spirit… there are healing stories recorded for all of these. Too many to simply discount.
READ ON ...
“Preaching, teaching and healing” is the usual description of Jesus’ ministry. The preaching and teaching seem straightforward enough, but we never know what to do with the healing part. Conditioned by our culture to revere science, and not yet fully accepting the strong link between our minds and our physical bodies, we are at a loss to interpret Jesus’ healing miracles. Body, mind, spirit… there are healing stories recorded for all of these. Too many to simply discount.
----------
Jesus as Healer
Body, mind, spirit… there are healing stories recorded for all of these. Too many to simply discount.
READ ON ...
“Preaching, teaching and healing” is the usual description of Jesus’ ministry. The preaching and teaching seem straightforward enough, but we never know what to do with the healing part. Conditioned by our culture to revere science, and not yet fully accepting the strong link between our minds and our physical bodies, we are at a loss to interpret Jesus’ healing miracles. Body, mind, spirit… there are healing stories recorded for all of these. Too many to simply discount.
Ten Lepers
Can we get inside this story,
Try to think as lepers thought?
Totally despised, rejected;
Life for them was worse than naught.
read moreTry to think as lepers thought?
Totally despised, rejected;
Life for them was worse than naught.
Litany for Healing
Jesus travelled from town to town, healing people who were sick
All: Help us to heal broken bodies
read moreAll: Help us to heal broken bodies
A Creed for Healing
I believe in a soothing impulse, where Healing restores what is Good
----------
-----------
Ten Lepers by George Stuart
Can we get inside this story,
Try to think as lepers thought?
Totally despised, rejected;
Life for them was worse than naught.
Lepers were unclean, disfigured,
Outcasts, worthy of disdain;
They were trash, not even human,
Their’s a life of constant pain.
So they shouted from a distance,
Too unclean to come too near;
“Jesus, Lord, You must have mercy;
Our whole life is full of fear!”
When he saw them he responded,
Not as one who did not care;
“Go and let the priests inspect you;
Throw away your deep despair.”
Jesus and his way of living
Dares us seek in every way
To be gentle and be gracious
To the ‘lepers’ of today.
We can listen to this story;
All its lessons we can learn;
It has love and great compassion;
It has love and great concern.
Tune: Beethoven’s Hymn of Joy
---------------------
Litany for Healing by Roger Courtney
Jesus travelled from town to town, healing people who were sick
All: Help us to heal broken bodies
Jesus drove out demons from people who were confused or tormented by inner demons
All: Help us to heal broken lives
Jesus listened to those who had been hurt and showed them unconditional love
All: Help us to heal broken hearts
Jesus helped people and groups who were excluded to feel accepted
All: Help us to heal broken relationships and broken communities
Ten Lepers by George Stuart
Can we get inside this story,
Try to think as lepers thought?
Totally despised, rejected;
Life for them was worse than naught.
Lepers were unclean, disfigured,
Outcasts, worthy of disdain;
They were trash, not even human,
Their’s a life of constant pain.
So they shouted from a distance,
Too unclean to come too near;
“Jesus, Lord, You must have mercy;
Our whole life is full of fear!”
When he saw them he responded,
Not as one who did not care;
“Go and let the priests inspect you;
Throw away your deep despair.”
Jesus and his way of living
Dares us seek in every way
To be gentle and be gracious
To the ‘lepers’ of today.
We can listen to this story;
All its lessons we can learn;
It has love and great compassion;
It has love and great concern.
Tune: Beethoven’s Hymn of Joy
---------------------
Litany for Healing by Roger Courtney
Jesus travelled from town to town, healing people who were sick
All: Help us to heal broken bodies
Jesus drove out demons from people who were confused or tormented by inner demons
All: Help us to heal broken lives
Jesus listened to those who had been hurt and showed them unconditional love
All: Help us to heal broken hearts
Jesus helped people and groups who were excluded to feel accepted
All: Help us to heal broken relationships and broken communities
--------------------
A Creed for Healing by realmsofday
I believe in a soothing impulse, where Healing restores what is Good
I believe in the power of curative Love
That cares for my damaged self
And nurtures injured others
I believe in restorative truth,
Cleansed of painful confusion
Free from destructive illusion
I believe in life’s revival, enlivened by gratitude
Enriched with generosity
I believe in caring faith
Where Healing restores what is Good
Click on Amazon Smile and choose ProgressiveChristianity.org as your charity - when you shop Amazon donates .05%.
Events and Updates
Awakenings 2016
An ecumenical/interfaith conference for lay and clergy bringing together thinkers, musicians, artists, and visionaries to re-imagine faith.
READ ON ...
Awakenings 2016
An ecumenical/interfaith conference for lay and clergy bringing together thinkers, musicians, artists, and visionaries to re-imagine faith
Presenters and Musicians
Dr. Diana Butler Bass, keynote, declares in her recent book, Grounded: Finding God in the World—A Spiritual Revolution (HarperOne, 2015), that “People believe differently than they once did. The theological ground is moving; a spiritual revolution is afoot.”
Rev. Felix Carrión is a Project Director for the United Church of Christ denomination, a consultant, pastor and keynoter who empowers clergy and laypersons for effective ministry and witness in church and society.
Dr. Patrick Evans returns to awakenings to explore congregational song and world music in today’s church. He’s Chair of the University of Alabama Birmingham, Department of Music.
Amy and Jonathan Gilburg will introduce “World Café” and “Open Space Technology” as ways to help communities make meanings out of what’s being experienced. They are partners in Gilburg Leadership, Inc.
Heshima Moja is a musician/singer/songwriter using music as a tool for healing the spiritual and emotional conditions of our society.
Onawumi Jean Moss is an award-winning storyteller whose personal warmth and inspiring presence returns to her second awakenings.
Roberta Morkin is an accomplished organist, choir director, and part of the pastoral team with her husband, Chuck. She’ll play the historic E.M. Skinner pipe organ during awakenings 2016.
Rabbi Rami Shapiro is one of the most creative figures in contemporary American Judaism. His prayers are included in worship services across the interfaith and ecumenical spectrum of American congregations. He will speak on Saturday evening, and preach on Sunday.
Bishop John Shelby Spong, keynote, has become one of the definitive voices for progressive Christianity. He has over two-dozen challenging and thought-provoking works published. His book, Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy – A Journey into a New Christianity through the Doorway of Matthew’s Gospel, comes out in February, 2016.
Willie Sordillo returns to awakenings with jazz pianist, Mina Cho, vocalist, Zoé Krohne and others. They will lead a moving jazz communion with the Rev. Anthony Livolsi – all from Old South Church in Boston.
Rev. Winnie Vargese is the Director of Community Outreach at Trinity (Wall Street) Church in NYC. She appears in “Living the Questions” teaching series, chairs the Board of the Episcopal Service Corps, and is a blogger for the Huffington Post.
The United Congregational Church of Holyoke, MA
An Open and Affirming Congregation of the United Church of Christ
Register Today — Meals Are Included.
Images
Start:
April 28, 2016 02:30 PM
End:
May 1, 2016 01:00 PM
Location:
The United Congregational Church
300 Appleton St.
Holyoke United States Massachusetts
Contact:
Chuck Morkin
Organization:
The United Congregational Church
Website:
http://www.awakeningsconference.com
Email:
chuckmorkin@gmail.com
View all upcoming events here!
News
Job Listings
Facebook
Twitter
Website
Email
YouTube
A Creed for Healing by realmsofday
I believe in a soothing impulse, where Healing restores what is Good
I believe in the power of curative Love
That cares for my damaged self
And nurtures injured others
I believe in restorative truth,
Cleansed of painful confusion
Free from destructive illusion
I believe in life’s revival, enlivened by gratitude
Enriched with generosity
I believe in caring faith
Where Healing restores what is Good
Click on Amazon Smile and choose ProgressiveChristianity.org as your charity - when you shop Amazon donates .05%.
Events and Updates
Awakenings 2016
An ecumenical/interfaith conference for lay and clergy bringing together thinkers, musicians, artists, and visionaries to re-imagine faith.
READ ON ...
Awakenings 2016
An ecumenical/interfaith conference for lay and clergy bringing together thinkers, musicians, artists, and visionaries to re-imagine faith
Presenters and Musicians
Dr. Diana Butler Bass, keynote, declares in her recent book, Grounded: Finding God in the World—A Spiritual Revolution (HarperOne, 2015), that “People believe differently than they once did. The theological ground is moving; a spiritual revolution is afoot.”
Rev. Felix Carrión is a Project Director for the United Church of Christ denomination, a consultant, pastor and keynoter who empowers clergy and laypersons for effective ministry and witness in church and society.
Dr. Patrick Evans returns to awakenings to explore congregational song and world music in today’s church. He’s Chair of the University of Alabama Birmingham, Department of Music.
Amy and Jonathan Gilburg will introduce “World Café” and “Open Space Technology” as ways to help communities make meanings out of what’s being experienced. They are partners in Gilburg Leadership, Inc.
Heshima Moja is a musician/singer/songwriter using music as a tool for healing the spiritual and emotional conditions of our society.
Onawumi Jean Moss is an award-winning storyteller whose personal warmth and inspiring presence returns to her second awakenings.
Roberta Morkin is an accomplished organist, choir director, and part of the pastoral team with her husband, Chuck. She’ll play the historic E.M. Skinner pipe organ during awakenings 2016.
Rabbi Rami Shapiro is one of the most creative figures in contemporary American Judaism. His prayers are included in worship services across the interfaith and ecumenical spectrum of American congregations. He will speak on Saturday evening, and preach on Sunday.
Bishop John Shelby Spong, keynote, has become one of the definitive voices for progressive Christianity. He has over two-dozen challenging and thought-provoking works published. His book, Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy – A Journey into a New Christianity through the Doorway of Matthew’s Gospel, comes out in February, 2016.
Willie Sordillo returns to awakenings with jazz pianist, Mina Cho, vocalist, Zoé Krohne and others. They will lead a moving jazz communion with the Rev. Anthony Livolsi – all from Old South Church in Boston.
Rev. Winnie Vargese is the Director of Community Outreach at Trinity (Wall Street) Church in NYC. She appears in “Living the Questions” teaching series, chairs the Board of the Episcopal Service Corps, and is a blogger for the Huffington Post.
The United Congregational Church of Holyoke, MA
An Open and Affirming Congregation of the United Church of Christ
Register Today — Meals Are Included.
Images
Start:
April 28, 2016 02:30 PM
End:
May 1, 2016 01:00 PM
Location:
The United Congregational Church
300 Appleton St.
Holyoke United States Massachusetts
Contact:
Chuck Morkin
Organization:
The United Congregational Church
Website:
http://www.awakeningsconference.com
Email:
chuckmorkin@gmail.com
View all upcoming events here!
News
Job Listings
FacebookTwitterWebsiteEmailYouTube
---------------------
"This Easter, Rediscover the True Meaning of the Gospels with John Shelby Spong" - ProgressiveChristianity.org of Gig Harbor, Washington, United States - This Easter, Rediscover the True Meaning of the Gospels with John Shelby Spong
Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy Offers a Radical New Way to Look at the Gospels
“‘Thy kingdom come’ means that our eyes must be trained to see the divine inside the human. It means that the kingdom of God comes when we are empowered to live fully, to love wastefully, and to be all that we are capable of being. It means that the work of the kingdom of God is the work of enhancing human wholeness; it is not the work of denigrating humanity or proclaiming the doctrine of original sin and human ‘fallenness.’”
—John Shelby Spong, Biblical Literalism
“Delightedly publishing another book as he nears 85, Spong returns to a main theme of his career, the Jewishness of Christianity, denial of which, he holds, amounts to a heresy so malign that it will destroy Christianity in the twenty-first century…vibrantly accessible.”
—Booklist
“Skewers historical readings of Matthew and turns the passages toward issues of dignity, social justice, and transformation.”
—Library Journal
Click here for more information!
Share
Tweet
Forward
+1
---------------------
Our mailing address is:
ProgressiveChristianity.org
4810 Point Fosdick Drive NW#80
Gig Harbor, Washington 98335, United States
---------------------
"This Easter, Rediscover the True Meaning of the Gospels with John Shelby Spong" - ProgressiveChristianity.org of Gig Harbor, Washington, United States - This Easter, Rediscover the True Meaning of the Gospels with John Shelby SpongBiblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy Offers a Radical New Way to Look at the Gospels
“‘Thy kingdom come’ means that our eyes must be trained to see the divine inside the human. It means that the kingdom of God comes when we are empowered to live fully, to love wastefully, and to be all that we are capable of being. It means that the work of the kingdom of God is the work of enhancing human wholeness; it is not the work of denigrating humanity or proclaiming the doctrine of original sin and human ‘fallenness.’”
—John Shelby Spong, Biblical Literalism
“Delightedly publishing another book as he nears 85, Spong returns to a main theme of his career, the Jewishness of Christianity, denial of which, he holds, amounts to a heresy so malign that it will destroy Christianity in the twenty-first century…vibrantly accessible.”
—Booklist
“Skewers historical readings of Matthew and turns the passages toward issues of dignity, social justice, and transformation.”
—Library Journal
Click here for more information!
ShareTweetForward+1---------------------
Our mailing address is:
ProgressiveChristianity.org
4810 Point Fosdick Drive NW#80
Gig Harbor, Washington 98335, United States
---------------------
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