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We delved into the topics of The Friendly Atheist, The Source of Truth, The Answer is You and Marcus Borg Remembered.
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Eric Alexander enjoys discussions with atheists for a whole bunch of reasons, but Hemant Mehta is particularly interesting as an atheist who has never been a Christian to begin with ...
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This week I had a chance to catch up with Hemant Mehta, who is known in the blogosphere as The Friendly Atheist, and author of the hit book I Sold My Soul On Ebay. Hemant is one of the most well-known atheist bloggers in America and I have been reading his stuff for years now because of his inclusive (yes, friendly) approach to atheism. I enjoy discussions with atheists for a whole bunch of reasons, but Hemant is particularly interesting to me as an atheist who has never been a Christian to begin with. I was curious to find out how much he thought we had in common, and also how much he knew about the PC movement. As you will see, we do share a lot of similarities, but it also seemed unclear to him just how different many PC’s are theologically when compared to our more conservative cohorts. I definitely recommend that progressive Christians follow Hemant to learn more about the dynamics of the atheist movement, and at the end is a video from Hemant discussing how religious people can support atheists if you care to learn more, and I think most progressive Christians would agree strongly what he had to say. I hope you enjoy the discussion.
HEMANT: I chose the name because, at the time I created the site, I kept hearing the phrases “angry atheist” and “militant atheist” in the media. No one ever spoke about happy, smiling atheists… and yet, most of the atheists I knew were pretty joyful people. So I used “Friendly Atheist” mostly to force people to say the words together. It doesn’t mean I’m friendly and other atheists are not, nor does it suggest I’m a pushover on religious issues.
HEMANT: You’re right that it’s a non-theistic religion. But the strange thing is, if you ask Jains if they believe in God, I’m guessing most of them would say yes. They don’t really know their own theology, in my experience. I was taught to pray to God growing up. I believed in Heaven and Hell and karma. These are all part of the same supernatural family. So even if Jains admit to being non-theistic, they still hold beliefs that have no basis in evidence. That’s where I part ways with them. Don’t get me wrong: There are atheists who believe in wacky things, too. But, to me, God and supernatural beliefs are the same thing. You can’t say no to one and yes to the others.
HEMANT: I’m not overly interested in labels or definitions. I want people to think critically about their beliefs and I think atheism is the logical conclusion if you do that. But I’m not the kind of person to get in many religious debates. If progressive Christians support LGBT rights, for example, then I want to work with them toward that goal and not get bogged down in our differences. There’s a difference between how religion affects our society, which I’m very concerned about — and why people are religious at all, which has become less of an issue for me over time.
…On Evidence and Possibilities of God
ERIC: In a discussion about God, which we can define simply as a creator, source, or first mover; would you be more likely to argue that there is no God (or that there can be no God), or merely that you want an acceptable level of proof before giving the idea any further consideration?
HEMANT: I would just say there’s no evidence for God’s existence. I want the proof and no one has it.
HEMANT: I have heard of it and, as I mentioned earlier, I have two different thoughts about it. From a purely practical standpoint, I have a lot in common with progressive Christians. We usually share the same ideas about social justice. We’re tired of how the Religious Right has hijacked religion and made Christianity synonymous with right-wing politics. We support civil rights for LGBT people. We volunteer together. I support Christians who work on making the world a better place, as cheesy as that sounds.
That said, I still think it’s silly and childish that progressive Christians tend to believe in the divinity of Jesus, prayer, and miracles. I want to convince them to shed those beliefs. But that is not my priority. That may be where I diverge from many atheists. I’m willing to let this stuff slide so that we can work toward the goals we share, while some atheists can’t get past even this mild type of foolishness.
HEMANT: There’s never been any evidence of prayers being answered, miracles happening with no possible natural explanation, or a dead man coming back to life, but the point is this: Progressive Christians, in my experience, still call themselves Christians for a reason. If they abandon these almost-fundamental religious beliefs, I’m hard-pressed to understand why they keep the Christian label. Meditation to me is very different from believing in intercessory prayer — I know atheists who meditate, but they’re not expecting God to ever intervene on their behalf.
HEMANT: It’s a semantic question that I don’t personally care about — but the more philosophical atheists would make a big deal about it. As stated earlier, if you’re a Deist or even someone who says with 100% authority that God doesn’t exist, I may disagree, but odds are we’re mostly on the same page with everything else, so I’m not going to waste my energy debating.
Here’s more from Hemant on how non-atheists can help support atheist causes:
Hemant, on “Friendly” Atheism…
ERIC: I’m curious, why did you choose the term “friendly” for yourself?HEMANT: I chose the name because, at the time I created the site, I kept hearing the phrases “angry atheist” and “militant atheist” in the media. No one ever spoke about happy, smiling atheists… and yet, most of the atheists I knew were pretty joyful people. So I used “Friendly Atheist” mostly to force people to say the words together. It doesn’t mean I’m friendly and other atheists are not, nor does it suggest I’m a pushover on religious issues.
…On God and Superstition
ERIC: You were raised in the Jain religion, which if I understand it correctly is non-theistic in nature. In your mind is that also a form of atheism?HEMANT: You’re right that it’s a non-theistic religion. But the strange thing is, if you ask Jains if they believe in God, I’m guessing most of them would say yes. They don’t really know their own theology, in my experience. I was taught to pray to God growing up. I believed in Heaven and Hell and karma. These are all part of the same supernatural family. So even if Jains admit to being non-theistic, they still hold beliefs that have no basis in evidence. That’s where I part ways with them. Don’t get me wrong: There are atheists who believe in wacky things, too. But, to me, God and supernatural beliefs are the same thing. You can’t say no to one and yes to the others.
…On Definitions and Labels
ERIC: Atheists and progressive Christians share an amorphous landscape of definitions within our umbrellas. How interested are you in promoting a specific definition of atheism versus it being what some of us in the progressive Christian world call a big tent with many variations of the term mingling together?HEMANT: I’m not overly interested in labels or definitions. I want people to think critically about their beliefs and I think atheism is the logical conclusion if you do that. But I’m not the kind of person to get in many religious debates. If progressive Christians support LGBT rights, for example, then I want to work with them toward that goal and not get bogged down in our differences. There’s a difference between how religion affects our society, which I’m very concerned about — and why people are religious at all, which has become less of an issue for me over time.
…On Evidence and Possibilities of God
ERIC: In a discussion about God, which we can define simply as a creator, source, or first mover; would you be more likely to argue that there is no God (or that there can be no God), or merely that you want an acceptable level of proof before giving the idea any further consideration?
HEMANT: I would just say there’s no evidence for God’s existence. I want the proof and no one has it.
…On Progressive Christianity
ERIC: As you know, progressive Christians can range from those who still share some of the core belief doctrines with conservative evangelicals, all the way to those who may not subscribe to any or all of the traditional core creedal concepts (for more about modern progressive Christianity, watch this video by progressiveChristianity.org founder Fred Plumer). I’m curious, what is your personal impression of progressive Christianity?HEMANT: I have heard of it and, as I mentioned earlier, I have two different thoughts about it. From a purely practical standpoint, I have a lot in common with progressive Christians. We usually share the same ideas about social justice. We’re tired of how the Religious Right has hijacked religion and made Christianity synonymous with right-wing politics. We support civil rights for LGBT people. We volunteer together. I support Christians who work on making the world a better place, as cheesy as that sounds.
That said, I still think it’s silly and childish that progressive Christians tend to believe in the divinity of Jesus, prayer, and miracles. I want to convince them to shed those beliefs. But that is not my priority. That may be where I diverge from many atheists. I’m willing to let this stuff slide so that we can work toward the goals we share, while some atheists can’t get past even this mild type of foolishness.
…On Whether God is Even Possible
ERIC: In your previous response you said “progressive Christians tend to believe in the divinity of Jesus, prayer, and miracles.” Now I don’t represent all progressive Christians of course, but I know many who wouldn’t say that they believe in any of those things, at least not as they’re traditionally understood. Many would even say they don’t subscribe literally to ideas like virgin birth, unique incarnation – or even resurrection. But given that we humans do not know all that there is to know about things like energy, consciousness, and mystical experiences; and given that relatively speaking we are still so unevolved mentally and scientifically; is it at least possible in your mind that there’s “something more” to all of this, whereby some form of a incomprehensible and undefinable higher reality could be possible? And if so, is it unreasonable in your opinion to explore it through something like prayer and meditation?HEMANT: There’s never been any evidence of prayers being answered, miracles happening with no possible natural explanation, or a dead man coming back to life, but the point is this: Progressive Christians, in my experience, still call themselves Christians for a reason. If they abandon these almost-fundamental religious beliefs, I’m hard-pressed to understand why they keep the Christian label. Meditation to me is very different from believing in intercessory prayer — I know atheists who meditate, but they’re not expecting God to ever intervene on their behalf.
…On Who Can Be an Atheist?
ERIC: I don’t think most progressive Christians believe in an anthropomorphized interventionist / intercessory type of God either. There are varying reasons that non-superstitious progressive Christians keep the label, and I’ve explained my own reasons recently in an article referring to myself jokingly as a gay Christian, and another using the label of Christian A-theist. But for a final question, I would like to ask about your views on the ideas of strong and weak atheism. To a seasoned atheist like you, is there room in the label of atheism for those who may refer to themselves as deists, a-theists, non-theists, or agnostics even though they may believe in a possibility or likelihood that some sort of source or an entity beyond our comprehension might exist? HEMANT: It’s a semantic question that I don’t personally care about — but the more philosophical atheists would make a big deal about it. As stated earlier, if you’re a Deist or even someone who says with 100% authority that God doesn’t exist, I may disagree, but odds are we’re mostly on the same page with everything else, so I’m not going to waste my energy debating.
Here’s more from Hemant on how non-atheists can help support atheist causes:
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// Eric Alexander is an author, speaker, and the founder of ChristianEvolution.com>>Follow Eric on Facebook<<
The Bible as a Source of Truth Bishop John Spong
Bishop Spong’s provocative book is “The Sins of Scripture.” In it, Bishop Spong deplores the way the bible has been used to justify most of the world’s evils ...
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Bishop John Spong on the Bible as a Source of Truth by John Shelby Spong
// Eric Alexander is an author, speaker, and the founder of ChristianEvolution.com>>Follow Eric on Facebook<<
Bishop Spong’s provocative book is “The Sins of Scripture.” In it, Bishop Spong deplores the way the bible has been used to justify most of the world’s evils ...
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Bishop John Spong on the Bible as a Source of Truth
<iframe width="650" height="488" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uIyVWACkii0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Bishop John Spong’s provocative book is “The Sins of Scripture.” In it, Bishop Spong deplores the way the bible has been used to justify most of the world’s evils; from gender inequality, homosexuality and child abuse, to capital punishment, the environment, and birth control. In the interview, he discusses the rise of muslim fundamentalism and laments that congregations at mainstream churches are in freefall. (Originally aired May 2005)
The Answer Is You Michael Beckwith
Delve deep into practical methods for manifesting prosperity and health, living a rich and fulfilling life, understanding universal laws and gaining greater self-awareness, courage, and self-reliance.
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Michael Beckwith – The Answer Is You by Progressive Christianity
Bishop John Spong’s provocative book is “The Sins of Scripture.” In it, Bishop Spong deplores the way the bible has been used to justify most of the world’s evils; from gender inequality, homosexuality and child abuse, to capital punishment, the environment, and birth control. In the interview, he discusses the rise of muslim fundamentalism and laments that congregations at mainstream churches are in freefall. (Originally aired May 2005)
Delve deep into practical methods for manifesting prosperity and health, living a rich and fulfilling life, understanding universal laws and gaining greater self-awareness, courage, and self-reliance.
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Includes stirring music by Rickie Byars Beckwith, Siedah Garrett (co-writer of Michael Jackson’s Man in the Mirror), Niki Haris, Will.I.Am (of the Black Eyed Peas) and the acclaimed Agape International Choir.
Thank you, Marcus Borg
Progressive Christianity lost one of its giants last week with the death of Marcus Borg.
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Week of January 25, 2015
Progressive Christianity lost one of its giants last week with the death of Marcus Borg. His books and lectures opened up the academic world of historical Jesus studies to the rest of us, and we will be forever in his debt. While he was signing my copy of “Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time” I said, “This book changed my life.” That quiet little smile… “Yes,” he said, “I hear that a lot.” Thank you, Marcus Borg.
As Swimmers Dare
One of Marcus Borg’s favorite examples of how poetry enriches liturgy:read more
Marcus J. Borg Quotes
Rather, the way of Jesus is the way of death and resurrection — the path of transition and transformation from an old way of being to a new way of being. To use the language of incarnation that is so central to John, Jesus incarnates the way. Incarnation means embodiment. Jesus is what the way embodied in a human life looks like.”read more
Spirituality and Contemporary Culture
My central claim, both today and tomorrow, is that being a Christian is primarily about a relationship with God lived within the Christian tradition as a sacrament – a claim to which I will return at the end of this talk. I will be exploring and developing this theme of re-visioning Christianity.
Read More: PC.org's Fred Plumer Honors Dr. Marcus Borg
An Evening with Bishop John Shelby Spong
Thursday, February 5, 2015
The Fourth of Gospel: Tales of a Jewish Mystic
Gables UCC, 3010 De Soto Blvd, Coral Gables, FL
Reception 6pm - Lecture and Q & A from 7 to 9pm
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