Democracy Now! Daily Digest ~ A Daily Independent Global News Hour with Amy Goodman & Juan González ~ Friday, 1 November 2013
STORIES:
A sweeping set of changes to the New York City Police Department’s controversial "stop-and-frisk" program has been put on hold. In August, U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin found the program unconstitutional, saying police had relied on a "policy of indirect racial profiling" that led officers to routinely stop "blacks and Hispanics who would not have been stopped if they were white." While she did not halt the use of stop-and-frisk, Scheindlin appointed a federal court monitor to oversee a series of reforms. The city appealed Scheindlin’s ruling, saying it made officers "passive and scared" to frisk suspects. On Thursday, it got what it was hoping for, and much more. An appeals court stayed the changes, effectively postponing the operations of the monitor, while allowing police officers to continue using stop-and-frisk tactics. In a striking move, the court also took the unusual step of removing Scheindlin from the case, saying she "ran afoul" of the judiciary’s code of conduct and compromised the "appearance of impartiality surrounding this litigation" by granting media interviews while the case was pending before her. All of this comes as stop-and-frisk has been a major issue in New York City’s mayoral election, which takes place this Tuesday. "The next mayor should consider withdrawing the appeal," says Sunita Patel, co-counsel on the stop-and-frisk federal class action lawsuit and a staff attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights. "Any fair-minded and neutral judge to look at the record … will come up with the same conclusion. There was a nine-week trial. There is 23,000 pages of evidence here, 8,000 pages of trial transcript. No one could come to a different conclusion than Judge Scheindlin."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: A sweeping set of changes to the New York City Police Department’s controversial "stop-and-frisk" program has been put on hold. In August, U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin found the program unconstitutional, saying police had relied on a, quote, "policy of indirect racial profiling" that led officers to routinely stop "blacks and Hispanics who would not have been stopped if they were white." While she did not halt the use of stop-and-frisk, Judge Scheindlin appointed a federal court monitor to oversee a series of reforms, including a pilot program that would require officers to wear cameras on their bodies to record their interactions with the public. She also ordered a "joint remedial process" to solicit public comments on how to reform the department’s tactics.
Well, the city appealed the judge’s ruling, saying it made officers "passive and scared" to frisk suspects, and on Thursday it got what it was hoping for—and much more. A Second Circuit Court ruling stayed the changes, effectively postponing the operations of the monitor, while allowing police officers to continue using stop-and-frisk.
AMY GOODMAN: In a striking move, the court also took the unusual step of removing Judge Scheindlin from the case. It ruled she had, quote, "ran afoul" of the judiciary’s code of conduct and compromised the, quote, "appearance of impartiality surrounding this litigation," unquote. A panel of three judges issued a two-page order that criticized Judge Scheindlin for granting media interviews and for making public statements while the case was pending before her. In one of the interviews cited in the order, Judge Scheindlin defended herself from what she called "below-the-belt" attacks by the city for seeking to portray her as unfair to the New York Police Department. New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly reacted to the news Thursday night.
COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY: I have always been—and certainly haven’t been alone—concerned about the partiality of Judge Scheindlin. And we look forward to the examination of this case, a fair and impartial review of this case based on the merits.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: All of this comes as stop-and-frisk has been a major issue in New York’s mayoral election, which takes place this Tuesday. Bill de Blasio, the Democratic nominee for mayor, who is leading his Republican opponent Joe Lhota by 40 points in recent polls, said he was, quote, "extremely disappointed" by the decision.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more, we’re joined by Sunita Patel, staff attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, co-counsel on the stop-and-frisk federal class action lawsuit.
Can you talk about the significance of this decision? I mean, we talked to you after the decision. It was quite stunning, saying that stop-and-frisk was unconstitutional, appointing a—saying a monitor had to be put in place to come up with reforms for the police department. But all of that has been turned around, stayed last night.
SUNITA PATEL: Well, it’s very disappointing and shocking. The decision was very disappointing and shocking.
I think that we need to make sure we’re clear on what was actually in front of them. The city was asking for a stay of a reform process. Although the judge said all of these things needed to be put into place immediately, she also deferred this to the monitor, a process whereby the city would have a role in shaping what those reforms would be. None of those reforms were actually ordered to happen immediately. And in the face of speculative harms and speculative reforms, the city went to the appellate court saying, "Please, stop these conversations from happening." And, you know, that doesn’t meet the legal standard.
So, the court did something that was very unusual, which was sort of ignore the legal issue in front of them and say, "We’re going to stay it." They didn’t give an opinion or decision for why, and then said that they are going to take the case away from a judge who has been very intimately familiar for over a decade.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, in the ruling, the three-judge panel mentioned that the judge had possibly violated the ethics requirements of judges. I want to read from that May 5th New York Times article the Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals cited in its decision. Reporter Joseph Goldstein wrote, quote, "In a brief interview, Judge Scheindlin, who was nominated to the bench by President Bill Clinton, declined to discuss the related-case rule in the context of the various stop-and-frisk cases. But speaking generally, she observed that 'some judges are less inclined to accept a case as related, some judges are more inclined to accept it as related.'
“In open court, the matter has rarely been discussed. But it did arise in late 2007. Although the 1999 lawsuit had been settled, the plaintiffs returned to court in that case to accuse the department of a surge in racially motivated street stops under the policing practices of a new mayoral administration.
“In court, Judge Scheindlin suggested a route other than trying to reopen the old case.
"'If you got proof of inappropriate racial profiling in a good constitutional case, [she said,] why don't you bring a lawsuit?’ she asked. 'You can certainly mark it as related.'"
So, basically, what was happening was that the panel was saying that she was, in effect, pushing the plaintiffs in this case to make it a related case and, in essence, really appearing to not be an impartial judge, as she’s required to be.
SUNITA PATEL: I mean, you know, and this—and this idea that there is some appearance of misconduct is just very troubling, from our perspective. It is not uncommon for judges to accept as related cases, and that is actually the Southern District’s rule, that courts should accept as related cases with the same issues, the same facts, the same parties. And here you had a situation where a judge denied the city—sided with the city. The city said, "We don’t want the plaintiffs to be able to keep this case open for another five years." She said, "You know what? I agree with you, New York Police Department and City of New York. I actually think they should have to file a new case."
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But also, what’s controversial in this situation is not only the court’s decision that the judge may have breached impartiality, but also what’s not mentioned is the efforts by the city to character-assassinate the judge. The city actually created a dossier that it then shopped to various media around the city, tried to get them to write articles to reflect the Bloomberg administration’s viewpoint that the judge was biased.
SUNITA PATEL: Wow! I actually didn’t know that fact, and that is quite remarkable.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, in May, the New York Daily News article—the New York Daily News published an article that said the staff of Mayor Bloomberg had reviewed Judge Scheindlin’s record and found she ruled against law enforcement in 60 percent of her 15 written search-and-seizure rulings since she took the bench in 1994. Scheindlin responded to the report, saying, quote, "Judges can’t really easily defend themselves. ... To attack the judge personally is completely inappropriate and intimidates judges or it is intended to intimidate judges or it has an effect on other judges and that worries me," she said.
Another response came from Chris Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union. He pointed out that only one of Scheindlin’s opinions against law enforcement was overturned on appeal. He said, quote, "Nothing about these cases remotely suggests any sort of bias against police officers or the NYPD. What actually is remarkable here is [that] the city would attempt to sully or intimidate Judge Scheindlin. That is both unseemly and doomed to fail," he said.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I should add on that, because I—the Daily News reporter who wrote that story is a very good friend of mine. The city not only created the dossier and sought to get media coverage, but then did not want it known that it was the one that produced the information. And in fact, the—City Hall was very angry with the Daily News when it mentioned in the article that it was the city that had created the original information.
SUNITA PATEL: Well, because that’s—you know, that is potentially unethical behavior to try to intimidate a judge in the midst of an ongoing trial. It is quite remarkable. And, you know, I think here the other question is: What was the circuit looking at? You know, they didn’t have before them a motion from the city saying that there was some bias by the court, that I know of. The city did not object to the case being assigned as related or being taken as related. You know, I think that this is quite a remarkable and troubling move.
And it’s—you know, it’s also very important for us to know that public opinion is on our side. Reform is going to happen one way or the other. You know, there’s no question the public dialogue has changed, and the police department knows that business as usual is not going to be tolerated by the city and the people here.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, the Times, The New York Times, in its editorial condemning this decision today, suggested that if Bill de Blasio wins the mayor’s race, he should just withdraw the city’s appeal. Is that legally possible?
SUNITA PATEL: Yes. I mean, we would certainly agree with that, that the next mayor should consider withdrawing the appeal. There is—we don’t think that this appeal is meritorious, especially not at this stage, when no reforms have actually been ordered. And any fair-minded and neutral judge to look at the record, as the next—you know, it’s already been reassigned, as the next judge may have to do, will come up with the same conclusion. There was a nine-week trial. There’s 23,000 pages of evidence here, 8,000 pages of trial transcript. I mean, no one could come to a different conclusion than Judge Scheindlin.
AMY GOODMAN: The judge who is taking on this case, Judge Koeltl, is the judge who ultimately sentenced Lynne Stewart, the civil—the civil rights attorney, to 10 years in prison, though he had originally started with a later—with a lesser sentence. So Judge Koeltl will take on this case. Jeffrey Toobin is one of the people who interviewed Judge Scheindlin, the interview—these interviews criticized by the appeals court, said, in the end, well, the court may be able to stay this, but they can’t stay the election of de Blasio, who says that he will challenge all of this. So where do you go from here?
SUNITA PATEL: Well, we—you know, we are considering what options we have to challenge what the court’s done. We will see what happens there. But at this point, the district court—
AMY GOODMAN: You were in the midst of meeting with the monitor?
SUNITA PATEL: We have been ordered to meet with the monitor and move forward with the reform process.
AMY GOODMAN: As the city has.
SUNITA PATEL: As the city has.
AMY GOODMAN: And yet, this will stop now.
SUNITA PATEL: And that will stop at this point.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Sunita Patel, we want to thank you very much for being with us, staff attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights. She’s co-counsel on the stop-and-frisk federal class action lawsuit.
This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. When we come back, we’re heading to Canada. We’ll be joined by the two Canadians, journalist John Greyson and Dr. Tarek Loubani, who were held by the Egyptian regime in prison for 50 days. Stay with us.
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As Egypt sets a date for ousted President Mohamed Morsi to stand trial for inciting the murder of protesters and the Muslim Brotherhood calls for mass demonstrations, we speak with two people who witnessed one of the bloodiest massacres of Morsi supporters by Egyptian state forces. Acclaimed Toronto filmmaker John Greyson and emergency room medical doctor Tarek Loubani were in Cairo on August 16, en route to a humanitarian mission in Gaza, when they went to film a protest and then rushed to the scene of a massacre — Greyson reportedly began filming the shooting’s aftermath while Loubani treated some of the injured. Then, along with 600 Egyptians that day, the pair of Canadians were swept up and detained without charge. They were held in cockroach-infested jail cells with as many as 36 other inmates. Greyson and Loubani launched a hunger strike, while supporters in Canada mounted a massive campaign to lobby for their release. Then, in early October, the pair were freed. They have since returned home to Canada, where they continue to call for the release of their Egyptian cellmates who remain imprisoned. We go to Toronto, where we are joined by Greyson, who is also a member of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. And in Ontario, we’re joined by Tarek Loubani, an assistant professor at Western University. He is a Palestinian refugee and one of the architects of the Canada-Gaza academic collaboration, a project that brings doctors from the West to Gaza to train physicians.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to Egypt, where security forces have captured one of the last remaining prominent leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood still at large after a coup that ousted President Mohamed Morsi in July. The senior leader in the Brotherhood’s political arm, Essam el-Erian, was seized on Wednesday on charges of inciting violence. Hours after authorities announced his detention, police entered Al-Azhar University campus in Cairo, where they opened tear—opened fire with tear gas and arrested pro-Morsi student demonstrators.
Egypt has set a date of November 4th for Morsi to stand trial for inciting the murders of protesters. The Associated Press reports some 20,000 police officers and soldiers will guard the upcoming trial. On Thursday, a Muslim Brotherhood coalition called for mass demonstrations across the country against the trial. Morsi [faces] charges surrounding the deaths of at least 10 demonstrators killed in a protest against his government last December. Hundreds of Morsi supporters have been killed by state forces since his ouster.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we spend the remainder of the hour with two people who witnessed one of the bloodiest massacres of Morsi supporters by Egyptian state forces. They’re acclaimed Toronto filmmaker John Greyson and emergency room medical doctor Tarek Loubani. On August 16, they rushed to the scene of a massacre. Greyson reportedly began filming the shooting’s aftermath, while Loubani treated some of the injured. Then, along with 600 Egyptians, the pair of Canadians were swept up and detained without charge. They were held in cockroach-infested jail cells with as many as 36 other prisoners. Greyson and Loubani launched a hunger strike, while supporters in Canada mounted a massive campaign to lobby for their release. Then, early October, the pair were freed. They’ve since returned home to Canada, where they continue to call for the release of their Egyptian cellmates who remain imprisoned.
We’re going now to Toronto, where we’re joined by John Greyson, the Canadian filmmaker and member of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. And in Ontario, we’re joined by Tarek Loubani, an emergency room medical doctor, assistant professor at Western University in London, Ontario. He’s a Palestinian refugee and one of the architects of the Canada-Gaza academic collaboration, a project that brings doctors from the West to Gaza to train physicians.
John Greyson and Tarek Loubani, welcome to Democracy Now! We are so glad you’re free. Dr. Loubani, let’s begin with you. I understand that you’re wearing clothes that are still drenched in the blood of both a patient you treated as well as yourself.
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: Yes, Amy. Thank you very much for having us to discuss these important issues. There are many ways that people sort of deal with their trauma and remembering what happened. For me, one of them is holding onto these clothes, which we were wearing when we were arrested, which I wore through the day of the massacre, and which were—which are still somewhat blood-soaked, despite my repeated attempts to wash them. So, yeah, just a little way to remember and give homage to the people who we treated that day.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Tarek Loubani, could you—could you refresh the memories of our viewers and listeners as to why you were in Cairo, how long you had been there before the day of the protest?
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: Well, we had barely arrived in Cairo, actually. We were on our way to Gaza, which is where John and I had planned on being. The Gaza Strip has, of course, an Israeli siege, a military siege, that prevents everything from getting in or out. And for a couple of years, there was this little bit of a breathing space, which was the Rafah border, which we could cross to go in there. So, I would go in to participate in Palestinian training of doctors. They had a very powerful attempt and program there to try to bring in people from outside to help get their standards up to international standards, especially for their new emergency program. So, that’s where we were headed.
We had been in Egypt for a remarkably short period of time, when we had heard that these protests would be going on. Basically, it came down to a choice of staying in our hotel room or going out there and being with the protesters on the street.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, John Greyson, take it from there. You were there. There was this protest. What happened next?
JOHN GREYSON: We arrived at the protest location, which was Ramses Square. It had barely begun. There was just a little bit of tear gas in the air. People were still assembling, when there was a call for "Doctor! Doctor!" Tarek responded. The people were carrying someone who had been badly shot. There was some negotiation. The decision was made to move the patient into the mosque, which was on the side of Ramses Square. And we followed, Tarek as doctor and me with my camera. And the rest of the afternoon was spent, as Tarek said, basically in this makeshift, improvised field hospital with—trying to treat and trying to document the unfolding massacre.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Greyson, what about that massacre? What did you witness yourself?
JOHN GREYSON: For me, it was—it’s hard to think of a worse day in my life. The shock of it’s still with me every day. There was initially—that was the—we accompanied the first body to go into the field hospital, or the mosque. By the time our five hours there was over, there had been over—we counted about 50 bodies. The body count for the entire day is around a hundred, though not all the bodies came through the mosque. They went through other hospitals, as well.
But there was, on the one hand, this extraordinary volunteer effort of other doctors, other nurses and volunteers, just ordinary citizens trying to help people, trying to save lives. There was my camera and a number of other cameras documenting what was going on, trying to make some sort of record of this—of these wounds to the neck, to the head, to the bodies of these unarmed protesters. It’s—there’s no other word: It was a massacre.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Loubani, I mean, you are a doctor, Tarek. What are the kinds of wounds you saw? What were the weapons used by the regime against the protesters?
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: In context, I have a lot of experience with war wounds. I’ve acted as a doctor in Gaza now for several years. As well, I traveled during my training to Iraq and to South Lebanon. So I know war wounds; I can tell them apart.
In this particular case, one of the amazing things about it is that almost all of the wounds for the first half of the day were small caliber, very small holes, and almost all in the head and neck. So, these were quite indicative of sniper shots. The thing that surprised me initially was how there could be so many so fast. And only after getting out of jail did I finally realize that, you know, the snipers were lined up on the rooftop, you know, shooting at these unarmed, nonviolent demonstrators. They were nonviolent almost to a fault. I mean, we heard, within our jail cell, people saying that even when they saw their comrades fall, they would tighten the line and keep marching in an unarmed way with their hands up and so on. So, this was the injury pattern in the first half: head and neck, almost all sniper shots. After that, it moved to more chest shots, multiple shots—so, indicative of sort of assault rifles. And then, towards the end of the day, mounted machine guns.
AMY GOODMAN: And for our TV viewers, we are showing file footage of various moments on various days, the kind of wounds that people are suffering. Talk about being taken to jail, John and Tarek. Talk about what happened next. How did you get taken in?
JOHN GREYSON: We had to wait until it was safe to leave the mosque, and so it was after curfew. We made our way through the streets, and the streets were very quiet. The whole city was in shock because of what had happened. We were trying to get to our hotel, which was on the river. There was a police cordon which ran parallel to the river, which prevented any crossing over. We tried at one police checkpoint, saying, "Look, there’s our hotel. Can we get through?" They turned us away. We went to a second one, and at that point we were only about a hundred yards from our hotel. We could point to it and say, "Look, there it is." And that was when they detained us. We didn’t know at first they were arresting us. We thought, "Well, you know, they’ll ask us a few questions and then let us through. Surely our Canadian passports are going to give us some sort of—some sort of through." But in fact, no, were we ever wrong on that.
AMY GOODMAN: And what—where did they take you at first, and when did you begin to realize that you were going to be held indefinitely?
JOHN GREYSON: They—
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: I think John and I probably had different moments—
JOHN GREYSON: They questioned us at that station, roughed us up a bit—Tarek got a broken nose and a bloody nose out of it—then taken overnight to another police station housed in a—they were so overcrowded, they housed us in an office sleeping under the desks with 20 other guys. And then, the next day, the Saturday, we were taken in a paddy wagon, 40 guys in a paddy wagon, left in the sun for three hours to bake in the Cairo sun, and then finally admitted into Tora prison. And that was, of course, greeted by the welcoming committee. Tarek can tell the Arabic phrase for that.
AMY GOODMAN: Tarek, why don’t you take it from there?
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: So, the welcoming committee—I mean, the abuse of prisoners and detainees in Egypt is systematic. It happens to everybody who walks through the doors. It’s so common that it actually has this euphemism, haflet istiqbal. You know, "the welcoming party," actually, would be a better translation for it.
And the welcoming party really started while we were still in the transport vehicle, where five people actually ended up with pretty severe heatstroke, one of whom I was pretty convinced would die within about an hour. He had reached a point where he could no longer speak and had become unconscious. So, we were sort of put through this process. And then, when we had had enough, and beyond that, the door was opened, and we exited only to find two lines of people, some with batons and some with cattle prods, to beat us on exit. We came through these two lines to find another series of people who were hitting with their hands and feet, one of them who actually struck prisoners so hard that his hand actually broke as a result—what we would call a boxer’s fracture. And then after that, it became sort of the very systematic abuse of certain people who were targeted. So, a few people were pulled out, about five of us, including John and I, for special treatment, in which we were beaten in front of the other prisoners quite severely.
John’s beating was so complete and exquisite that he actually had this very detailed bootprint on his back, which, you know, every time anybody would sort of ask me, "Were you hit?" all I would need to do was raise his shirt and show this perfect bootprint that showed both how hard he was hit and also, to anybody who knew anything about medicine, how focused the hitting was. They’re very careful not to break ribs, though they accidentally broke one of mine. They are careful not to hit the face, because I think they’ve been instructed that such things don’t really look good in the media. So, the abuse was systematic, and it was quite complete.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And at what point were you able to get word out to the Canadian embassy and try to begin to get some public attention to your situation, John Greyson?
JOHN GREYSON: There was a cellphone left in the first paddy wagon, and we were able to make a call to our friend Justin in Canada before the phone was confiscated. The embassy was—the embassy searched—the Canadian embassy searched all the prisons in Cairo, finally found us. It was hard to find us because I had been entered under the wrong name. They entered me under John Richard, my middle name, not John Greyson, my real name. So—but they found us by Sunday, which was remarkable, and from then on were able to visit about once a week for 10 minutes. That was, for the 50 days, our only contact with the world, squeezed into 10 minutes with every bit of contact with family, with friends, with loved ones, my partner, so—and our legal strategy and every—every bit of the world squeezed into that 10 minutes.
AMY GOODMAN: You made illustrations, John, of your fellow cellmates.
JOHN GREYSON: I don’t speak Arabic, and so there was about five guys who did, and we formed a little English conversation group. So we would, you know, talk about—I’d try and correct grammar as they worked on the vocabulary. But for the rest of the guys, my way of getting to know them was through drawing. And so, my portraits were popular. They were also a source of hilarity, because none of them really resembled the guys I was drawing, so we would joke that they could never be used in a court of law. They’re bad—they’re not good representations. But the idea was, I’d do one for them and one for me. And so, the one for them often they’d give to a fiancée or a mother or a family member during their own family visits. We had two of our fellow prisoners miss their weddings, and so all they could really give to their fiancées was a couple of bad portraits.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Tarek Loubani, what about your fellow inmates? The coup government would have the world believe that they were largely Muslim Brotherhood cadre who were bent on creating unrest in the wake of the coup. What did you find?
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: Well, we very much entered the situation assuming the same thing, because we had been following the media, which was heavily influenced by the Egyptian official narrative. So, when we went into the jail cell, we saw that, you know, there were a bunch of people who had beards, and assumed they must be the Brotherhood. What we ended up finding, there were a couple of things. Within the jail, there were three Brotherhood members within our jail—our first jail cell, of 38, including John and I. And three of them were Brotherhood—ironically, the three with no beards, other than John and I—we also had no beards. But it was not Brotherhood members. It was very much people who were concerned about their country.
You know, Juan, I noticed you had said pro-Morsi about the Al-Azhar protesters, but these are largely kids who probably don’t really care about Morsi, but really only care about the democracy. They might be pro-Brotherhood, but really what we noticed, and what I assume is probably still true for these protesters, is that they just don’t want a military dictatorship. They want a country that makes sense. They feel that they worked very hard for this democracy and that it was slipping between their fingers. That’s what we observed and what we saw.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break, and when we come back, we want to talk to you about your hunger strike, about the charges against you and how you ultimately got out and what happened to the men who remain behind. We’re talking to John Greyson, a Canadian filmmaker, member of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, and Tarek Loubani. He is a Palestinian doctor and professor at Western University in London, Ontario. John and Tarek were actually headed to Gaza through the Rafah border to—for Tarek to train and John to film him training doctors in the emergency room in Gaza. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: We continue our conversation with the pair of Canadians who were recently released from an Egyptian prison after spending nearly two months detained. They had rushed to the scene of a massacre in August to treat wounded protesters and film what was taking place, when they were arrested—John Greyson, a Canadian filmmaker, member of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid; Tarek Loubani, emergency room medical doctor, assistant professor at Western University in London, Ontario, a Palestinian refugee, one of the architects of the Canada-Gaza academic collaboration that brings doctors from the West to Gaza to train physicians.
So talk about being in jail, Tarek, and when you decided to go on a hunger strike.
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: Well, the entire process in jail was very much about controlling and dominating us. And this, of course, happened physically, just by virtue of our captivity, but it also happened psychologically. So, for example, we never felt like we had any input into the judicial process. We were actually never interrogated by the prosecutor’s office about what we had seen or what we were doing. We really felt that we were voiceless.
And so, John, myself and actually the rest of the prisoners in our first room had these discussions about how it was that we could have some—take back a little bit of control or assert ourselves to speak with the world around us. And we realized, ultimately, that there was no way to do this. Our messages were not getting out. We were not able to even communicate with our lawyers effectively, or at all. Our first meeting was only the last day before we were released. And so, we finally decided to go on hunger strike. And the value of hunger strike is one that I think every two-year-old understands. I mean, when you have no other power, you always have the ability to hunger strike.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Greyson, what was the reaction of the—of your fellow inmates, not only to the hunger strike, but just to the reality of having two Canadians jailed with them at the same time?
JOHN GREYSON: When we were brought into the prison with the welcoming party, all the other prisoners witnessed this beating of the Kanadi and the Falestine, so there was already a huge amount of solidarity and support for us. And really, the other 36 in the first cell went out of their way to take care of us. They were, you know, always giving us the last piece of—last piece of food, the last tomato, etc. There was incredible caring and real concern for us, and also a real interest in the work we were trying to do in solidarity with Gaza.
That said, when we discussed hunger strike, the fellow prisoners were really split in terms of their advice. They said, "Watch out. It’s very dangerous. The prison will throw you in solitary." So there was a lot of strategizing and getting good advice from them about how to proceed. We decided to do a liquids-only hunger strike and not do it through the official prison channels, so it would have maximum impact in terms of outreach to the world and make the statement we wanted it to make, but we didn’t—we really didn’t want to subject ourselves to the extreme situation of solitary.
AMY GOODMAN: John, were you concerned about the authorities finding out that you are gay?
JOHN GREYSON: Of course. We had already been accused of being Hamas agents, of being Mossad agents—to, on top of that, be gay agents out to corrupt Egyptians, the good—the good people of Egypt, was a very genuine fear. At the same time, it’s a Google away. It’s the easiest thing to find out about me. I’ve ironically made three films about prison, gay love stories about love in—about life in prison. But—and so, it’s also ironic that I made the films and then did my research just recently. I had never spent a night in jail before this experience.
But at the same time, I think people who overstress that issue tend to go towards a set of assumptions and prejudices around Arabic culture and Islamic culture, saying, "Oh, it’s"—the West assumes, "Oh, it’s overwhelmingly homophobic." I actually think it’s much more complicated and nuanced. And it’s about, are you forcing, in the Western way, a coming-out agenda onto people, or are you being a person that they get to know, and then it becomes part of what they discuss or don’t discuss? In our particular case, it didn’t come out in—to our—our fellow prisoners didn’t find out. The guards didn’t find out. So it remains an unanswered question. But it certainly was there as a concern.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Greyson—
JOHN GREYSON: And the other irony was that Tarek and I were very interested in going to that larger prison called Gaza to continue conversations about LGBT issues on the ground in Gaza. I work with Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, who works with queers in Palestine, queers in the West Bank, on a bunch of Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions actions and projects. But that conversation in Gaza is still at a different stage. So, we were hoping that would be the work we were going to be doing. That’s been postponed, but hopefully sometime in the future.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Greyson, the Egyptian authorities claimed at one point that they found some drone-like surveillance equipment in your hotel. Could you talk about that?
JOHN GREYSON: Tarek can probably speak best to what were two quadcopters used for medical testing.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Tarek, could you talk about that?
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: Yeah. So, I mean, the context here is that anybody who knows me knows that I’m a geek, and I very much enjoy sort of playing with new technologies and trying to bring these new technologies into applications into which they weren’t necessarily designed. After having read and seen lots of good work that happened in South Africa using the same technology, which basically uses GPS-guided aerial vehicles, like basically little planes with a GPS computer on them, to take stuff from one place to the other, I had been thinking about the same thing both in London, Ontario, where I work, and in the Gaza Strip, where the distances aren’t very large, but the terrain can be very brutal. So, getting from one hospital to another, both in London and in Gaza, is a remarkably difficult task. And there’s centralization in Gaza, especially, of lots of the testing, so to get it effectively done, you’d have to put it in a taxi, and three hours later it might show up at the place where it needed to be. Our goal really with this technology was then to try to experiment with ways of transporting things or ways of moving things.
The interesting thing about it is that this technology is available off the shelf in downtown Cairo. And the Egyptians themselves, even though we were worried, didn’t really make a big deal out of it. They were much more worried about John’s footage, and having reviewed the YouTube videos available, I can see why. His footage was probably the best footage of that day. Instead, it ended up being sort of a cudgel that was used in Canada by a couple of the right-wing commentators here as an attempt to plant us as spies or, I don’t know, Hamas agents or something, as though, you know, a Canadian doctor and his, like, gay filmmaker friend, who were both going to Gaza, were really the best vehicle for smuggling, instead of the tunnels that bring in thousands of rockets. So, really, it was never an issue. It was just like taking in any other medical equipment. However, because of lots of the—what was going on ideologically, ended up being used in the Western media here, and Canada especially.
AMY GOODMAN: So, John’s film is confiscated, though we’re able to show other footage of that day, because there were a number of cameras there. But, Tarek, if you could talk about the reaction to you as a Canadian Palestinian, what was the authorities’ and the other prisoners’ reaction? And then talk about your father coming to Cairo to try to get you both released.
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: Well, in terms of being a Palestinian, being a Palestinian going through Egypt over the last few years has been a variable experience. And so, sometimes when the propaganda was sort of pro-Palestinian, it would be a very comfortable experience, and many other times it would be uncomfortable, to say the least. And this is the experience, really, of all Palestinians traveling through Egypt. Mine, of course, is mitigated by the fact that I speak English fluently and that I carry a Canadian passport. John and I always sort of said that like we had these two coming-out processes, the two closets—you know, John as a gay person and me as a Palestinian. And I really chose and I found it really important in my case to talk about being a Palestinian, and that was a very, very costly decision. It was quite costly. In fact, it was one of the main triggers that we got arrested. My Palestinian accent did me in. And when I was asked if I was—if I was Palestinian, I confirmed it, and that was the moment at which we were kind of physically arrested and brought into the station. The odds are, if I would have told them, "No, I’m a Canadian," that would have been the end of that conversation. So, being a Palestinian in jail was not very easy. Being a Palestinian in Egypt was, of course, not very easy. But I thought, at least, it was important for me to hold onto that part of my identity.
In terms of my father coming, you know, my father, of course, like any—any parent, was sort of burning up on the inside, wondering what he could do and feeling helpless, and ultimately decided that he would come after the 45-day renewal. The 45-day renewal, we had basically been in for 45 days and were renewed, unbeknownst to us at the time, for another 45 days, and it really represented the Egyptian government thumbing its nose at the international community and at really any semblance of a just or proper judicial process. So, at that point, my father came to see what he could do. And his intention was to raise the media flags in Egypt and start talking about the issue and try to humanize John and I. He was ultimately able to do that. It was a big surprise to us when we saw him. And it coincided with the Egyptian government sort of starting to realize that they had an international problem on their hands. He was able to speak directly to the entire Cabinet and pitch our case, you know, say who we were as people and as human beings. And, you know, the extent and the impact was there. Though it’s unclear sort of how influential that was, it is clear that, in concert with everything else, it was definitely a contributor—
AMY GOODMAN: We only have a minute—two minutes—
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: —which is great. I mean, I think every father wants to be the hero.
AMY GOODMAN: We only have two minutes to go, so, very quickly, if you could tell us what’s happened to the men who remain in prison and what role the Canadian government played? I mean, there were supporters and activists in Canada and throughout the world who were pushing for both of your release.
JOHN GREYSON: We got out because of extraordinary pressure mobilized by an incredible grassroots coalition, you know, everybody from the prime minister, our right-wing Prime Minister Stephen Harper, to kids’ drawings, six-year-old kids making drawings and getting them out there. We feel everybody’s efforts made the difference and made the difference together. It’s important to thank our Canadian government for the work they did. It’s also important to emphasize that it was—we were a convenient for them. We were a way of them to be seen to be doing something about Egypt without actually ever criticizing the coup. So, we’re grateful, and we’re critical.
With our fellow prisoners, the 600 remain in jail. They’re up for—they hit the 90-day mark of November 11th, and we’ll see if they get renewed or released. Every time we’ve tried to look in the crystal ball and predict, we’ve been proven wrong. So, I don’t know, Tarek, if you have any insight.
AMY GOODMAN: Tarek, final comments in these seconds we have?
DR. TAREK LOUBANI: I mean, I think that these 600 people are going to get renewed, because right now there isn’t the international pressure to get them out. This is not a fair judicial process. This is very much a political witch hunt against, essentially, people with beards. So, we have to apply pressure to the government to release them. I’m not saying charge them, because as far as I can tell, there’s no evidence against them. They should be released.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you both for being with us, and we are so glad you are free. We will continue to follow the story of what is taking place in Egypt. Tarek Loubani is a doctor and professor at Western University in London, Ontario, where he’s speaking to us from. And John Greyson, filmmaker, member of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. They were imprisoned by the Egyptian regime for 50 days and ultimately released.
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HEADLINES:
Court Blocks Stop-and-Frisk Police Reforms in New York City
A sweeping set of changes to the New York City Police Department’s controversial "stop-and-frisk" program has been put on hold. In August, U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin found the program unconstitutional, saying police had relied on a "policy of indirect racial profiling." She appointed a federal court monitor to oversee a series of reforms. But the city appealed her ruling, and on Thursday an appeals court stayed the changes, effectively allowing police officers to continue using stop-and-frisk.
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Iraqi Prime Minister Requests More U.S. Military Aid to Combat Growing Violence
Iraq’s prime minister is asking the United States to provide more military aid, including weapons, to help combat Iraq’s worst violence in five years. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is meeting with President Obama at the White House today. In an op-ed for The New York Times, al-Maliki wrote that he plans to "propose a deeper security relationship between the United States and Iraq." Speaking Thursday at the Institute of Peace, al-Maliki asked for United States for help to fight terrorism.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki: "We don’t tell the world to stand by us and support us. Rather, we have a right to ask of the world, because we are part of them, and because if what happens in Iraq is not dealt with, it will expand, and what happens in Syria, if not dealt with, will also expand, and what happens in any country where the virus of terrorism lives, this virus will spread."
According to the State Department, at least 6,000 Iraqis have died in violence this year.
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U.S. Official Confirms Israeli Strike in Syria
A U.S. official has confirmed Israeli aircraft carried out a strike near the Syrian coastal city of Latakia. The unnamed official told the BBC Israel targeted Russian-made missiles it believed were bound for the militant group Hezbollah. It is believed to be the sixth Israeli attack on Syria this year.
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Judge Reinstates Anti-Choice Measure in Texas
In Texas, reproductive rights groups say at least a third of clinics that perform abortions in the state will be forced to stop providing them immediately after a federal appeals judge reinstated part of a new anti-choice law. Earlier this week, a federal judge struck down the measure requiring abortion providers to obtain onerous hospital admitting privileges, saying it lacked any medical purpose. But on Thursday, an appeals court granted an emergency request by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott to reinstate the requirement while a lawsuit against it proceeds. The measure is just one piece of the law that sparked a people’s filibuster and a marathon stand by State Senator Wendy Davis over the summer. Rigid restrictions on pill-induced abortions and a 20-week ban also went into effect this week.
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German Lawmaker: Snowden May Travel to Germany to Testify on NSA Spying
A German lawmaker who met with National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden in Russia says Snowden could travel to Germany to testify about NSA spying if legal obstacles can be cleared. Germany has demanded answers after reports the United States tapped the phone of German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Anger over U.S. spying has spread to Asia after documents from Snowden revealed U.S. and foreign embassies across East and Southeast Asia are housing equipment used for U.S. surveillance. Indonesia summoned its Australian ambassador today after it was revealed the Australian embassy in Jakarta is a hub for the U.S. spy efforts.
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Kerry Admits Some Spy Efforts "Reached Too Far"
On Thursday, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry issued some of his frankest remarks to date on National Security Agency spying. During a video appearance at a London conference, Kerry conceded some actions have "reached too far."
John Kerry: "The president and I and others in government have actually learned of some things that have been happening, in many ways on an automatic pilot because the technology is there and the ability has been there, over the course of a long period of time."
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Snowden Starts New Job at Website in Russia
Edward Snowden is reportedly starting a new job today in Russia. His lawyer told a Russian news agency Snowden has been hired by a "major" Russian website.
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Food Stamp Recipients Face "Hunger Cliff" as Deep Cuts Take Effect
The more than 47 million people who receive food stamps in the United States will see a decrease in their aid beginning today as a temporary boost from the 2009 stimulus expires. Dubbed the "hunger cliff" by critics, the drop will reduce monthly food stamps for a family of four by $36 each month. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, food stamps will now average less than $1.40 per person, per meal next year. The decrease comes two days after lawmakers opened talks on a farm bill that will likely cut food stamps even more. One-in-seven people in the United States rely on food stamps.
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Report: Only 6 People Enrolled in Obamacare on Site’s 1st Day
Newly revealed documents have provided hard numbers showing just how few people were able to enroll in health insurance through the new government website amid massive technical failures. The Obama administration says there were 4.7 million unique visits to the site in the first 24 hours. But according to notes from a meeting on the morning after the launch, just six people had successfully enrolled. By that afternoon, about 100 people had enrolled; 248 enrolled by the end of the day. The notes were released to a House panel under a documents request. They were first reported by CBS News Thursday, a day after Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told a House panel there was no precise data on enrollments.
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Senate Republicans Block Obama Nominees for Housing Post, Appeals Court
Senate Republicans have blocked the confirmation of two Obama nominees, one for a housing oversight post and the second to a powerful appeals court. In back-to-back votes Thursday, the Senate fell just shy of the 60-vote threshold to overcome Republican filibusters against Melvin Watt, a Democratic congressmember from North Carolina, who was tapped to oversee the home mortgage industry, and Patricia Millett, who was nominated for the D.C. Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals.
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Kenya: Hundreds Protest Light Penalty for Alleged Gang Rapists
In Nairobi, Kenya, hundreds of people took to the streets to protest sexual violence after a 16-year-old girl was gang-raped and her accused rapists were freed. The victim, known as "Liz," was beaten, raped and left for dead in a pit latrine in June. She suffered severe injuries including a broken back and is now confined to a wheelchair. Liz identified three of six alleged attackers. But their only punishment was being forced to mow the police station lawn. On Thursday, protesters marched to the police headquarters waving women’s underwear in an action dubbed "Keep off our panties." Nebila Abdulmelik organized a global petition demanding justice for Liz.
Nebila Abdulmelik: "I think this is one step, but we still have a long way to go. It’s nice to see that our petition, which had over 1.2 million signatures, was received by the Office of the Inspector General, even though it wasn’t the Inspector General himself. And I’m also assured that they’ve asked us to come in for a sit-down meeting, because I think this is the opportunity now to sit down with them and set up benchmarks and time frames and timelines, and see how we can work together to strengthen the systems that have not protected us."
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Niger: 92 Migrants Die of Thirst in Desert
In Niger, officials say they have recovered the bodies of 92 migrants who perished from thirst after their vehicles broke down in the Sahara Desert. The migrants were en route to neighboring Algeria, fleeing from poverty. More than 50 children were reportedly among the dead.
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Indonesian Workers Launch Nationwide Strike for Pay Hike
In Indonesia, workers launched a nationwide strike Thursday demanding a wage hike amid soaring inflation. A group representing labor unions said about two million workers are participating, although police put the number much lower. The strike shut down factories that produce garments and other goods, many of them for multinational firms. Indonesian factory workers are among the worst paid in Asia.
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U.S. Attorney to Probe Mysterious Death of Georgia Teen
A federal prosecutor in Georgia has announced he is reopening an investigation into the death of Kendrick Johnson, a 17-year-old who was found dead inside a rolled-up wrestling mat in his high-school gym in January. Lowndes County sheriff’s investigators concluded Johnson died in a freak accident after becoming trapped inside the mat while trying to retrieve his sneaker. But his parents say he was murdered. A pathologist hired by the family to provide a second autopsy found Johnson actually died from blunt force trauma. In a bizarre twist, the pathologist also reportedly discovered Johnson’s organs were missing and his body cavity stuffed with newspaper. Attorney Benjamin Crump, known for representing the family of Trayvon Martin, spoke to CNN while standing behind the parents of Kendrick Johnson.
Benjamin Crump: "Make no mistake about it, his parents never accepted this explanation that he climbed into a wrestling mat, got stuck and died. It flew in the face of all common sense, logic and the laws of physics. What more likely happened, he was murdered, and there has been some conspiracy to cover up the truth here. This is a murder mystery, and we’re going to get to the bottom of it."
U.S. Attorney Michael Moore said he would review Johnson’s death with the aid of the FBI.
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FBI Probes Fatal Police Shooting of Boy Carrying Replica Gun
The FBI has also launched a probe of the police killing of 13-year-old Andy Lopez in Santa Rosa, California. Lopez was shot dead last month after a sheriff’s deputy mistook the pellet gun he was carrying for an assault rifle.
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City Where Trayvon Martin Died Bans Guns for Neighborhood Watch
The Florida city where Trayvon Martin was shot dead by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman is banning neighborhood watch members from carrying guns. New rules due to be announced next week will also bar volunteers from pursuing people they deem suspicious. Zimmerman was accused of racially profiling the unarmed teenager and following him before shooting him dead. A jury acquitted Zimmerman in July.
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Youth Activist Deported Following "Dream 30" Border Protest
A 23-year-old activist who surrendered to U.S. immigration authorities as part of a protest calling for reform and a halt to record deportations has been deported to Mexico. Rocio Hernández Pérez was brought to the United States by her parents at the age of four. She was one of the so-called Dream 30 who crossed into Laredo, Texas, in September. The Dream 30 took action after another group of young people, the Dream 9, made a similar crossing in Arizona in July. The Dream 9 were released and cleared an initial hurdle to receive asylum. But a number of the Dream 30 remain in detention, with some facing possible deportation. Meanwhile, the head of the U.S. Border Patrol says the agency arrested roughly 420,000 people in the most recent fiscal year, a 15 percent increase from last year.
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Graffiti Artist Banksy Ends New York City Residency
The graffiti artist Banksy has wrapped up a month-long residency in New York City. Bansky’s art on the city streets has included a moving slaughterhouse delivery truck loaded with squealing stuffed animals, a war-related mural set to audio from the "Collateral Murder" video of a U.S. helicopter attack on civilians, and a statue of McDonald’s mascot Ronald McDonald having his shoe polished by a live actor. A thrift-store painting that he modified and re-donated to the aid group Housing Works just sold for $615,000 online. Banksy apparently defied a campaign by New York City police to corner him. The audio guide for his final piece reflects his possible motives.
Banksy audio guide: "The world we live in today is run, visually at least, by traffic signs, billboards and planning committees. Is that it? Don’t we want to live in a world made of art, not just decorated by it?"
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207 W 25th Street, 11th Floor
New York, NY 10001 United States
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