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We look at the incredible story of how a 16-year-old high school sophomore from the Bronx ended up spending nearly three years locked up at the Rikers jail in New York City after he says he was falsely accused of stealing a backpack. Kalief Browder never pleaded guilty and was never convicted. Browder maintained his innocence and requested a trial, but was only offered plea deals while the trial was repeatedly delayed. Near the end of his time in jail, the judge offered to sentence him to time served if he entered a guilty plea, and warned him he could face 15 years in prison if he was convicted. But Browder still refused to accept the deal, and was only released when the case was dismissed. During this time, Browder spent nearly 800 days in solitary confinement, a juvenile imprisonment practice that the New York Department of Corrections has now banned. We are joined by reporter and author Jennifer Gonnerman, who recounts Browder’s story in the current issue of The New Yorker. We also speak with Browder’s current attorney, Paul Prestia, who has filed a lawsuit against the City of New York, the New York City Police Department, the Bronx District Attorney, and the Department of Corrections, on Browder’s behalf.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Last week, the New York City Department of Corrections announced it will stop using solitary confinement to punish adolescents held in its troubled Rikers Island jail complex, the second-largest jail system in the country. But a federal prosecutor said the city’s reforms were moving too slowly to address a, quote, "culture of violence," and warned he may file a civil lawsuit over conditions for teenagers held in Rikers. New York is one of only two states nationwide that automatically charge 16- and 17-year-olds as adults.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, today we look at the incredible story of a 16-year-old high school sophomore who was jailed at Rikers Island for nearly three years after he refused to plead guilty to a crime he said he did not commit. It was May 15, 2010, when Kalief Browder was walking home from a party with his friends in the Bronx and was stopped by police based on a tip that he had robbed someone weeks earlier. He told HuffPost Live what happened next.
KALIEF BROWDER: They had searched me, and the guy actually said—at first he said I robbed him. I didn’t have anything on me. And that’s when—
MARC LAMONT HILL: When you say "nothing," you mean no weapon and none of his property.
KALIEF BROWDER: No weapon, no money, anything he said that I allegedly robbed him for. So the guy actually changed up his story and said that I actually tried to rob him. But then another police officer came, and they said that I robbed him two weeks prior. And then they said, "We’re going to take you to the precinct, and most likely we’re going to let you go home." But then, I never went home.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Kalief Browder did not go home for 33 months, even though he was never convicted. For nearly 800 days of that time, he was held in solitary confinement. He maintained his innocence and requested a trial, but was only offered plea deals while the trial was repeatedly delayed. Near the end of his time in jail, the judge offered to sentence him to time served if he entered a guilty plea, and told him he could face 15 years in prison if he was convicted. He refused to accept the deal and was only released when the case was dismissed.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more, we’re joined by Jennifer Gonnerman, reporter, author, contributing editor at New York magazine, and contributing writer to The New Yorker magazine. She recounts Kalief Browder’s story in the current issue of The New Yorker in a piece headlined, "Before the Law: A boy was accused of taking a backpack. The courts took the next three years of his life." Jennifer Gonnerman has long chronicled problems with the criminal justice system. Her book, Life on the Outside: The Prison Odyssey of Elaine Bartlett, tells the story of a woman who spent 16 years in prison for a first-time offense under New York’s Rockefeller drug laws.
And we’re joined by Kalief Browder’s current attorney, Paul Prestia, who has filed a lawsuit against the city, the NYPD—the New York Police Department—Bronx district attorney and the Department of Corrections on Browder’s behalf. Prestia is also a former assistant prosecutor in Brooklyn.
Jennifer Gonnerman, Paul Prestia, welcome to Democracy Now! Jennifer, tell us Kalief’s story.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Well, you did a pretty good job of setting it up, and it was terrific that we got to hear Kalief’s voice describing what happened. But just to recap a bit, May 2010, he’s coming home from a party late one night in the Bronx, walking with his friend down the street, and a police car pulls up. There’s somebody in the back seat who points him out, saying, you know—accusing him of a robbery that had happened one or two weeks earlier. He says, "I didn’t do it." They take—
AMY GOODMAN: Well, first, he actually says, "I didn’t steal anything tonight. Look at my pockets."
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right, right.
AMY GOODMAN: And they went back and checked with the guy, and they said, "Oh, oh, this happened a couple weeks ago."
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right, so there was, from the beginning, it sounded like, at least the way Kalief tells it, some confusion about the dates, which is significant. And he goes into the precinct thinking, "I’m just"—and he’s in the holding cell, thinking, "I’m just going to be here for a couple hours. We’ll clear up this misunderstanding." And, as you said, he ended up doing almost three years on Rikers Island, for many reasons, but the system sort of completely failed him in every possible way. There was no speedy trial. And during that time, he was locked up in the adolescent jail on Rikers Island.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain Rikers.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Sure, sure. You know, when we talk about Rikers Island, it’s a jail complex. There’s 10 different jails there. And I think a lot of people get confused between prison and jail. A prison is where you go after you’ve been convicted and sentenced. A jail is where you go while you’re waiting for your case to go through the court. On Rikers Island, 85 percent of the people locked up there are legally innocent. They have not been convicted of a crime yet, and they may never be convicted of a crime. They’re there waiting to find out whether they’re guilty or innocent and what their fate is going to be. And so, Kalief was one of those people. So, despite the fact that he was not convicted of a crime, he endured the punishment anyway.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But he ended up basically in Rikers because he couldn’t make bail, right? Because it was a relatively minor charge, the judge ended up giving him bail time but releasing his co-defendant, as well. Could you explain why that happened?
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Yeah, sure. So, from the beginning of the case, there were two co-defendants. And Kalief’s co-defendant, the other friend, was released from day one, and so he got to wait at home while the case went through the system. And Kalief’s bail was set at $3,000 because he was already on probation in a prior case. So, he had a mark against him, and that mark sort of chased him for the next three years. Ultimately, they filed a violation of probation against him, which meant that he was remanded. So even though the bail was $3,000, it was out of the reach of his family. Even if they had spent time fundraising from everybody they knew, ultimately it didn’t matter because he was remanded. There was no bail set for three years. So he was held without bail while this case sort of crawled through the court system.
PAUL PRESTIA: Well, and just to clarify—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yes, Paul Prestia, yes?
PAUL PRESTIA: Just to clarify on that prior conviction, that was a youthful offender adjudication, so that, theoretically, was sealed from his record. So, while he was convicted, he was 16 at the time, and that conviction was sealed from his record—not something that should have been used against him, but perhaps an anomaly because he was on probation at the same time.
In any event, as Jen pointed out—I would have titled her piece—and it was an excellent piece, obviously—I spoke with her in depth while she was writing the article. I would have titled it "The Criminal Justice System Deconstructed." And I can go through all of those aspects with you, but I know that—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, I wanted to ask you particularly about this whole issue of people being held in jail, in essence, to pressure them to plead out, because we often see the criminal justice system on television as these trials, these dramatic trials, but I’ve always felt that the essence of the criminal justice system in America, 95 percent of the cases, are the plea bargains.
PAUL PRESTIA: Absolutely.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: People being pressured not to go to trial, but to plead guilty. And if you could talk about how that’s used time and—over and over again to get defendants to plead out?
PAUL PRESTIA: Well, I don’t know if it’s a tactic per se. I don’t know if it’s something intentional per se, that the District Attorney’s Office—a technique that the District Attorney’s Office uses to—
AMY GOODMAN: And you were a prosecutor—
PAUL PRESTIA: I was.
AMY GOODMAN: —so you probably did it all the time.
PAUL PRESTIA: I’m familiar with all of these things, Amy. I know how it goes, for sure. But I think it’s understood that if someone’s—it’s just common sense. If someone’s in jail and they’re desperate to get out, they’re more inclined to take a plea. It’s just human nature to do anything, to find any way to get out of that jail, especially if you’ve spent some time in solitary.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s what is so amazing about Kalief, when the Bronx judge is replaced by a Brooklyn judge, and she begins to see what he’s been through and says, "You will be out today. After two-and-a-half years, just plea. You face 15 years in jail if you go to trial," and he said, "No." I mean, all the other prisoners said, "Are you crazy?" to him. This is a kid. He said, "I’m innocent. I’m not going to say I was guilty."
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: I mean, it’s incredible. Obviously, the longer you’re incarcerated in jail, the greater the pressure to plead, right? And for somebody like Kalief, who was in one of the worst jails—he was in the adolescent jail in Rikers Island, which the U.S. Attorney’s Office recently put out a blistering report about the horrific conditions there. On top of that, he spent most of his time in solitary confinement. So it just ratchets up the pressure more and more and more. You know, he could not have been under greater pressure to plead. And yet, despite all that, he just said, that day, to the judge—the judge, you know, made that offer, and he said, "I’m all right. I didn’t do it. I’m all right." And the judge says, "You’re all right?" I mean, clearly, he was not all right. But he said, "I’m all right," like, "I got this. I could do it." And she said, "You’re all right?" And he said, "I want to go to trial," the same thing he had been saying for three years. But trials rarely happen in the Bronx. And that’s sort of one of the sort of dirty secrets of the whole system.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: To me, one of the most stunning parts of your article is when you list from the court files all of the continuances that occurred in this trial, while he’s waiting, demanding to go to trial. You have from the court file: "June 23, 2011: People not ready, request 1 week." But that one week turns into—looks like three months: "August 24, 2011: People not ready, request 1 day." Then, "November 4, 2011: People not ready, prosecutor on trial, request 2 weeks." Then, "December 2, 2011: Prosecutor on trial, request January 3rd." So each time it was the prosecutors who were delaying the start of a trial.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: That’s true. And then it would—once they asked for a week or two weeks, it would turn into a matter of scheduling. Everybody looks at their calendars, and maybe the prosecutor can’t do it, or maybe the judge can’t do it, or maybe the defense attorney can’t. And it became a sort of logistics game at every court date. But, you know, one or two weeks turning into six weeks, you know, for somebody like Kalief, that’s six more weeks that he’s got to wait.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what about the role of the prior attorney? Because you weren’t there from the beginning, Paul Prestia.
PAUL PRESTIA: No, I wasn’t. I’ll make that clear.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: His initial—right, right, his initial attorney. And you also tried to find out what that initial attorney, who was appointed by the court, did or did not do.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right, right, right. He was a court-appointed lawyer—it’s called 18-B lawyer in New York City, but a court-appointed lawyer, paid $75 an hour to represent Kalief. And, you know, it’s a system that has been criticized over the years, because in order to make a living, you’ve got to have a lot of cases. And you’re sort of—those lawyers are sort of running around the city all the time. And, you know, so he never visited his client on Rikers Island, which is—
AMY GOODMAN: Never visited his—that means he never visited his client, because he was on Rikers Island the whole time.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: That’s correct. And, you know, as sad as it is, it’s not that uncommon for 18-B lawyers never to make the trip to Rikers Island, because it’s like a half a day, you know, nightmare. You know, they have video conferences in the Bronx, where you can talk to your client face to face. And, you know, I asked him had he ever done that; he said, "I’m pretty sure I did." And then I asked Kalief, did he remember having a videoconference with his lawyer, and he said, "No." So, you know, I don’t know. Paul could probably speak better to this, but—
AMY GOODMAN: What about a speedy trial? I mean, there might be a lot of people watching this around the country and around the world now saying, "Wasn’t a law broken here, that this kid, from when he was 16 years old, was in prison, two of those years in solitary?"
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: I know. You can’t even wrap your brain around it, it’s so crazy, the whole story. So, in New York, you know—so, the Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a speedy trial. And in New York, we have something called the "ready rule." So, when these prosecutors, as Juan was reading off the list, say, you know, "We’re not ready, but we can be ready in a week"—so that’s one week charged against them. Yet the court—the next court date is set one month, two months, three months away. So that only counts as one week against the six-month deadline that we have in New York. So, even though he was held for three years, it’s not like there’s three—the three years count against him. It’s every week or two weeks or one day that the prosecutors ask for. So time is moving in two separate ways. There’s sort of the world of the courthouse, where time is moving at a glacial pace, and then there’s Kalief’s life, where every day feels like 10 because he’s trapped in a box in Rikers Island solitary.
PAUL PRESTIA: It’s a figurative clock that stops and starts throughout the case. But, agreed, with Jennifer’s legal analysis, the adjournments were appalling and should have been challenged at some point, in my opinion, by the attorney—
AMY GOODMAN: For a speedy trial.
PAUL PRESTIA: —and should not have been allowed to persist by the judges who oversaw the case.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s bring Kalief’s voice back into this conversation. Kalief Browder told HuffPost Live’s Marc Lamont Hill that while he was in solitary confinement at Rikers, the guards often refused to give him his meals.
KALIEF BROWDER: If you say anything that could tick them off any type of way, some of them, whic is a lot of them, what they do is they starve you. They won’t feed you. And it’s already hard in there, because if you get the three trays that you get every day, you’re still hungry, because I guess that’s part of the punishment. So, if they starve you one tray, that could really make an impact on you. And—
MARC LAMONT HILL: How much were you starved?
KALIEF BROWDER: I was starved a lot. I can’t even—I can’t even count.
AMY GOODMAN: Kalief Browder went on to say he was once starved four times in a row—no breakfast, lunch, dinner or breakfast again. Talk about the conditions of solitary confinement and how a kid, a teenager, would end up in solitary confinement for two years.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Sure. I mean, Kalief’s talking about being hungry in jail. And even though he’s talking about one instance, in fact, it was a much sort of broader problem. So, when you’re in solitary confinement, you get three meals a day coming through a slot in the door, because you’re not leaving your cell. And for teenagers locked in solitary—and this is not just Kalief, this is other teenagers have talked about this—there’s not enough food. And once you’re in solitary—you know, when you’re in general population, the regular jail, if you’re not getting enough food, you can maybe get some money in your commissary account and get some snacks and fill up your stomach.
AMY GOODMAN: And his mom did put money in commissary.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Yeah, his mother did look out for him and visited him every week. But here he is, stuck in solitary. He can’t supplement his meal. He’s reduced to begging officers through the cell door: "Can I get an extra piece of bread?" Sometimes they give it, sometimes they laugh at him. And, you know, basically, there’s a 12-hour stretch from dinner to breakfast where all these teenagers are drinking water out of the sink to fill their stomachs. And, you know, when he told me this, at first I thought, well, maybe it’s just him, or maybe it’s a one-off thing. You know, he was talking about meals being skipped. But I’m saying it’s a broader sort of problem. But there was a recent report that came out from Bronx Defenders organization, where they talked about many of their clients with similar complaints. And, you know, for a moment, I thought, "Did we just pick up this kid off the street in the Bronx and drop him in Guantánamo?" I mean, this is the kind of thing that, you know, that you guys cover all the time. It just—it seemed, frankly, almost unbelievable.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What about the whole issue of his education? I mean, here was a 16-year-old sophomore.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What kind of educational support does Rikers give to 16- and 17-year-olds that it jails?
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: You know, the adolescents in the regular jail were supposed to be taken every day to class, to a school that they have there. And they’re taught by Department of Education—you know, it’s a Department of Education-run school. But once a kid was put into solitary, they weren’t being taken out for school anymore. And what they would do is slip a worksheet under the door in the morning, an officer would, or a few, and, "Finish this by Wednesday. Finish this by Thursday." So, Kalief’s sitting there. He’s got nothing to do. He thinks, "Well, I might as well do something. I might as well try to do this." You know, so he’s kind of trying to teach himself how to be a better writer, math, etc. And then Thursday comes—you know, time moving at this incredibly slow pace—and nobody comes to pick up the work. I mean, that didn’t always happen, but it happened often enough. And, I mean, it’s just—you know, it’s a small detail, but it just shows the utter apathy, you know, and lack of concern for everybody in there. So he’s banging on the door. "Where is the correction officer to pick up the work?" You know, he’s trying to improve himself in this absolutely nightmare of a place.
PAUL PRESTIA: I don’t even think "apathy" is the word. It’s just a reckless disregard for any of those kids who sat in solitary. It’s sad, really.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Paul Prestia, the reaction of the prosecutors in the case, and especially when you got involved? What was—didn’t anybody say, "Hey, this is a kid who’s been in jail for close to three years and still has not been brought to trial"?
PAUL PRESTIA: I’m sorry about—I missed your question. What was—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The reaction of the prosecutors that you were dealing with?
PAUL PRESTIA: Well, I didn’t actually deal with the prosecutors, because I took over the case after it got just missed.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Oh, after it got dismissed.
PAUL PRESTIA: So, after it got dismissed, Kalief came to see me, and he retained me to represent him in the civil case against the state of New York—against the City of New York, I’m sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: In August, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York issued a report that sharply criticized Rikers jail officials for routinely using extreme violence against adolescent prisoners, often in areas without video surveillance cameras. It also condemned the excessive use of solitary confinement for teenagers held there. This is the U.S. attorney, Preet Bharara.
PREET BHARARA: Rikers Island is a broken institution for adolescents. And a broken institution will produce broken people, especially when they are young and fragile with mental illness, as so many of them are. The adolescents in Rikers are walled off from the public. But they are not walled off from the Constitution. Indeed, most of these young men are pretrial detainees, presumed innocent until proven guilty. But whether they are pretrial or convicted, they are entitled to be detained safely and in accordance with their constitutional rights, not consigned to a corrections crucible that seems more inspired by Lord of the Flies than any legitimate philosophy of humane detention.
AMY GOODMAN: U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara, speaking in August. Last week, he said New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio had failed to move quickly on reforms called for in the report, and warned his office was ready to file a civil rights lawsuit against the city to force changes. Preet Bharara could conceivably be a possibility for attorney general. Jen Gonnerman?
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: You know, this report came out in the course of me reporting this story. It came out in August. And back in April, when I was first interviewing Kalief—I think maybe the very first time I met him—he told me this incredible story that had happened early in his time at Rikers, a few days in, of, late at night, there had been some sort of fight in the dorm. The officers weren’t sure who—
AMY GOODMAN: There were 50 kids in the dorm.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right, 50 kids in the dorm.
AMY GOODMAN: In one room.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Officers weren’t sure who was responsible, so they grabbed whoever they could find, threw them in the hall and, you know, their faces to the wall, and just started kind of trying to figure out who did it and yelling at them and smacking them in the face each time, and really beating some of the kids up. And so, Kalief tells me this incredible story of, you know, leaky noses and sort of swollen eyes. And at the end, the officers say, "OK, you know, we can either take you to the clinic, which means—and if you tell the folks who work at the clinic, the civilian medical staff, what happened, you’re going to end up in solitary. Or you can just go back to bed and pretend nothing happened." So, Kalief and the other guys say, "OK, we’ll go back to bed."
He tells me this incredible story in April. I think, that is—I didn’t doubt him, but I just thought, "Is that like a one-time thing? What is going on on Rikers Island?" I mean, I knew the conditions were very bad in the adolescent jail, but that was a level of brutality that was pretty, you know, hard to wrap your mind around. Then, come August, this report comes out, and I would encourage anybody who’s interested to read this report, because even though government reports are sometimes a little dry, this one is incredible in the level of graphic detail and the way it’s written. It just—
PAUL PRESTIA: And it’s specific to the years 2011 and 2013—
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right.
PAUL PRESTIA: —coincidentally, when Kalief was incarcerated and was in solitary confinement.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: And this story I just described, you know, is told again and again in this report. It certainly wasn’t a one-time occurrence.
PAUL PRESTIA: And it’s clear that—listen, I know that the corrections officers, their jobs can be difficult. That goes without saying. But to create your own code of justice, which is what happens in these jails, and to just mete out punishments to these kids, these young men, who are—as Jennifer pointed out, they’re innocent. They’re awaiting a trial. They’re waiting for their case to be heard. But yet, in those jails—and, I would argue, in my opinion, in those prosecutors’ minds—presumed guilty, a lot of the time.
AMY GOODMAN: Kalief attempted suicide.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that happened several times in Rikers Island. And, you know, it’s totally understandable, considering the conditions. You know, Rikers had—this is hopefully going to change, but there was a lot of teenagers put into solitary. It’s sort of the ultimate management tool, the way they were dealing with unruly population. There was like almost an addiction to solitary confinement. And once in solitary, you know, as study after study shows sort of the incredible impact on one’s mental health, so you can have inmates going in, who didn’t have any mental health problems, coming out a broken person—you know, the paranoia, the lack of trust, the sort of being overwhelmed by stimulation. I mean, Kalief, since he’s been out, you can still see the impact of solitary, even though he’s been home for 16 months. I mean, he, at times—you know, like his brother was telling me, "You know, I’ll invite Kalief to the movies. 'Do you want to go out, do something fun?' And Kalief says, 'Ah, no, I don't want to do that,’" and he’d rather sort of retreat and be in his room at home, door closed, almost recreating the conditions of solitary, and feels more comfortable like that sometimes than out in the world.
PAUL PRESTIA: I’ve spent a lot of time with Kalief. And quite honestly, I don’t see how he could ever be the same after that experience. And the—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What are you hoping, with the lawsuit, to be able to accomplish in terms of the responsibility for what happened?
PAUL PRESTIA: Well, obviously, you know, we’re asking the—we need the city to be accountable, to take accountability, to admit that what happened here was unjust, it was unlawful, it was unconstitutional, and it was wrong. And it was. Nothing they can say can justify Kalief Browder’s ordeal. The police can’t justify it. Corrections can’t justify it. The District Attorney’s Office can’t justify it—in my opinion. There is no way. I’ve gone through everything, everything in this case, from the arrest, where you have a victim whose credibility is highly at issue—
AMY GOODMAN: Well, he had gone back to Mexico, you learned, at the very end.
PAUL PRESTIA: Right.
JENNIFER GONNERMAN: Right. Ultimately, that’s why they agreed—
PAUL PRESTIA: No, no, no. It wasn’t at the very end. I don’t believe it was at the very end.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you believe he disappeared at the beginning?
PAUL PRESTIA: I suspect it was long before the date of the dismissal. And for—
AMY GOODMAN: That’s why they kept asking for delays.
PAUL PRESTIA: Right, of course, of course. Because if he was available, Amy, he could have been brought in—well, let’s see, the case was first on for trial, in a trial posture, in December of 2010. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, he could have been brought in much—you know, sometime in 2011, at the very least. All they had to do in this trial was bring this victim in and testify as to what happened. And the problem here is, Kalief was innocent. He was always innocent. And they arrested him based on this—a victim, whose credibility was clearly at issue, without any other evidence to go forward on this case, a case that should have never been prosecuted. And then, to add insult to injury, he has to spend those three years in Rikers. And the ironic thing, Amy—and I know you have to continue—is that they accused him of stealing a backpack, right? As you said in your opening. Yet, at the end of the day, they stole Kalief Browder’s innocence.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to leave it there, and I thank you so much for being with us, Paul Prestia, attorney for Kalief Browder; Jennifer Gonnerman, reporter, author. Her latest story is in The New Yorker. You’ve got to read it. It’s headlined "Before the Law: A boy was accused of taking a backpack. The courts took the next three years of his life." We’ll link to it at democracynow.org. We’ll be back in a minute.
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After Censorship of History Course, Colorado Students & Teachers Give a Lesson in Civil Disobedience
After a county school board in Colorado proposed to rewrite the district’s high school U.S. history curriculum to stop teaching about civil disobedience, students and teachers have responded with acts of civil disobedience of their own. Classes have been canceled twice in Jefferson County as teachers stage mass sick-outs and students walk out of classes. At a protest last week, hundreds of Denver-area high school students held cardboard signs with slogans including, "Don’t make history a mystery" and "Keep your politics out of my education." The protests began after the school board announced it was considering reviewing the curriculum of Advanced Placement history courses and adding more material to "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights." The proposed changes also call for the removal of classroom materials that "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law." In addition, teachers are protesting a pay-grade system that ties their salaries to performance reviews. We are joined by two guests: John Ford, president of the Jefferson County Education Association and a social studies teacher at Moore Middle School, and Ashlyn Maher, a Chatfield High School senior and one of the students protesting the proposed curriculum changes.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: On Monday, two high schools outside of Denver, Colorado, canceled classes after dozens of teachers called in sick in protest of the county school board’s proposal to revamp the district’s history curriculum. This is the second time in two weeks that teachers have staged what they’re calling a "sick-out," with 72 of 102 teachers at Golden and Jefferson high schools reporting absent on Monday. Teachers are also protesting a pay-grade system that ties their salaries to performance reviews. Last week, hundreds of Denver-area high school students staged a walkout to voice their concerns over the proposed changes to the history curriculum. They held cardboard signs with slogans like "Don’t make history a mystery" and "Keep your politics out of my education."
AMY GOODMAN: The protests began after the Jefferson County School Board announced it was considering reviewing the curriculum of Advanced Placement history courses and adding more material to, quote, "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free-market system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights," unquote. The proposed changes also call for the removal of course materials that, quote, "encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law," unquote. Newly elected school board member Julie Williams recently criticized how history is currently taught, saying, quote, "It has an emphasis on race, gender, class, ethnicity, grievance and American-bashing while simultaneously omitting the most basic structural and philosophical elements considered essential to the understanding of American History for generations," she said.
Well, for more, we go to Denver, Colorado, where we’re joined by two guests. John Ford is with us, president of the Jefferson County Education Association. He’s a social studies teacher at Moore Middle School. And Ashlyn Maher is with us, Chatfield High School senior, one of the students protesting the proposed curriculum changes.
We also invited Jefferson County school board member Julie Williams to join us on our program but did not receive a response.
John Ford and Ashlyn Maher, welcome to Democracy Now! Ashlyn, when did you get a sense that things were changing?
ASHLYN MAHER: Well, I’ve been paying attention to the school board for the past year, and I have been increasingly more concerned about what’s been going on. And when I heard about the first teacher sick-outs, I realized that more students were interested in being involved in standing up for their education, so I took the incentive and just started educating people. I wanted to let them know what was going on, so I started presenting unbiased information, posting on Facebook and talking to people in the hallways. And before we knew it, we had a huge following.
AMY GOODMAN: John Ford, explain exactly what is going on.
JOHN FORD: Well, over the last 10 months, we had a school board majority that was elected into office—they were a conservative group—that started to push a conservative agenda. And last week, two weeks ago, when this proposal came out to create a community—a committee to censor certain parts of our curriculum, I think that’s what hit the nerve. And it not only hit a nerve with the educators in Jefferson County, but it really hit a nerve with our students, our parents and community folks as a whole.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And this Julie Williams, who’s leading the charge on this issue in the school board, to your knowledge, what are her credentials for being able to analyze and dissect the problems of the American history AP curriculum?
JOHN FORD: Well, as far as I know, none.
ASHLYN MAHER: Yeah, she released a statement saying that she does not have the authority herself and the background in history to make those judgments, which is why she was creating the committee. But she also never released any statements that the people on the committee would have those qualifications.
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking on MSNBC, Jefferson County school board member Julie Williams defended her proposed changes to the curriculum.
JULIE WILLIAMS: I’m not saying let’s not teach history accurately; what I’m saying is let’s not encourage our children to disobey the law.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to that, Ashlyn Maher?
ASHLYN MAHER: I am not aware that I broke any laws. I think that I was standing up for what I believe in, and that is what, you know, people in America have done for centuries. It’s the foundation of our country. I took AP U.S. history myself, and all I was presented with were the facts. And then I made the opinions based on those facts. I was never told what to think. And these protests are entirely student-led, and it’s what people think is right.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Ford, while the students are involved in their protest, the teachers also have particular grievances in terms of policies of the school board. Could you talk about the concerns that led to the sick-outs of the teachers?
JOHN FORD: Well, once again, I think it’s a culmination of things. We have a board majority that consistently over the last 10 months have—they’ve been secretive, wasteful with taxpayer money and disrespectful to our community. So, we put all of those things together, and then you put in this new committee to sanitize or purify curriculum, I think that’s where the nerve was hit again. And we’re concerned about—the AP, or the College Board, is a nationally recognized institution that goes throughout all the United States and several different countries. And this one hurts kids. So, you know, the teacher walkouts and the student protests and the parent concerns are all stemming from multiple issues.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But what are specifically the teacher concerns that are being expressed in those sick-outs?
JOHN FORD: Well, first, we’ll go back to the AP and the censoring thing. But over the last 10 months, you know, our teachers’ association has been engaged in negotiations with their contract. And the contract itself is something that’s been a 45-year tradition in our school district, and we’ve had a long history of collaboration with the school board and the superintendent. And that’s all coming to an end. At the end of last year in May, we went into negotiations, they stalled out, and we went to an independent fact finder. And the fact finder, his recommendations, we went into whatever he determined that the teachers’ association would agree with, and we hoped that the school district would, too. But at the end of the day, the fact finder found in favor of the teachers, and the school board rejected those recommendations and moved on with their own agenda and unilaterally instituted a salary scheme that’s based on merit pay, that’s very, very confusing, and to this day I still don’t think they know what’s going on.
AMY GOODMAN: Soon after the College Board issued its new guidance for its Advanced Placement U.S. history course, the Republican National Committee condemned the new standards as "radically reinventionist" and anti-American. The College Board has said it stands behind the Jefferson County student protesters. It’s also warned that course can no longer officially bear the AP designation if a school or district censors essential concepts from an AP course. Also speaking on MSNBC last week, the president of the Jefferson County PTA, Michele Patterson, voiced her concerns about academic censorship.
MICHELE PATTERSON: This is not just about AP history. This committee would have the ability to look at all curriculum at any grade level and present it to the board—present to the board anything that they find objectionable. And then the board would have the chance to look at their objections and take potential action. So it really opens the door wide to censorship.
AMY GOODMAN: That was PTA President Michele Patterson on MSNBC. Last week on Fox News, host Gretchen Carlson criticized students and teachers in Colorado protesting proposed changes to their history curriculum.
GRETCHEN CARLSON: And what does it say about our young people in this country and the teachers joining the protests that promoting patriotism is now a negative? Ironically, the new curriculum being proposed is all about promoting individual rights, like protesting. The new curriculum would also teach a free-market system, like the one we already have. It would also encourage that there be no disregard for the law. Isn’t that why we have laws on the books?
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Fox News host Gretchen Carlson. Ashlyn Maher, you’re a high school senior. Can you respond?
ASHLYN MAHER: Well, I saw this interview, and further in the interview she calls all of us little punks. And personally, I do not agree with what she is saying. I am saying that we are standing up for our individual rights, and we want to make sure that we learn the facts, patriotic or not. Everyone has made mistakes, and we learn history and we learn those mistakes as to not make them again in the future. You know, those who don’t learn history are doomed to repeat it. So that is what we are saying.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Ford, your reaction, as a longtime teacher, to the continuing efforts of some forces in this country to sort of try to determine what you, as a teacher, and what educators can teach their students?
JOHN FORD: Yeah, I think the frustrating part of this is, we have professionals in classrooms who dedicate their entire lives to teaching kids, and those professionals know better. And I want to make this point, because I had a conversation with a math teacher a couple of months ago. And she was distraught, and I asked her, you know, "What’s going on?" And she said, "Well, this board majority is using my passion against me." And I wake up every day with that ringing in my ears.
AMY GOODMAN: The New York Times writes, "The board ... has drawn praise from Americans for Prosperity-Colorado, a conservative group affiliated with the Koch family foundations. In April, Dustin Zvonek, the group’s director, wrote in an op-ed that the board’s election was an 'exciting and hopeful moment for the county and the school district.'" Are the Koch brothers involved with this school board?
JOHN FORD: I don’t know. But what I do know is, Jefferson County has a long tradition of being a collaborative education institution for the entire community. And one thing that I’d like to point out, I was born and raised there, and my kids go to these schools. And Jefferson County is a community. And that community really means something. And I’m sure, if you talk to these students, that’s why they’re reacting the way they are. If there’s outside forces trying to push an agenda in our school district, that would be really concerning. And you know what? We’ll find out.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But if there was this extreme group that got control of the school board, that obviously means that there was not a high level of participation in the school board elections. Could you talk about that and the dangers when communities do not get involved in their school board elections?
JOHN FORD: Yeah, about 33 percent of the total population that could vote voted. Elections matter, and especially school board elections. Lots of times we put focus on the national-level and maybe our state-level elections, but our school board elections are going to be unbelievably critical in the next couple of election cycles.
AMY GOODMAN: Ashlyn, you’re a high school senior. Will you be voting in the next elections?
ASHLYN MAHER: I sure hope so, because this issue does not stop affecting me when I graduate. I have a little brother and a little sister that will grow up in the Jeffco community, and I want them to have the best education possible. And I really want them to be presented with the facts, just like I was. I really don’t think that they should be taught somebody else’s opinion.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Ashlyn Maher, I want to thank you for being with us. Ashlyn Maher, Chatfield High School senior, one of the students who is leading the protests over the proposed curriculum changes. And John Ford, president of the Jefferson County Education Association and social studies teacher at Moore Middle School.
When we come back from break, an astonishing story about a 16-year-old high school sophomore who was accused of stealing a backpack. He wound up on Rikers Island, in jail for close to three years, two of those years in solitary confinement. You’ll find out his story. Stay with us.
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The American Civil Liberties has filed a federal lawsuit against Scott County, which is about 25 miles from the capital of Jackson, over allegations that it has held prisoners for nearly a year without formal charge or access to an attorney. The two plaintiffs in the case are Octavious Burks, held for more than 10 months without formal charge, and Joshua Bassett, held for eight months. Burks was arrested for armed robbery, and Bassett for grand larceny and possession of methamphetamine. Overall, the ACLU estimates at least 50 people are being held in the Scott County in a similar situation — no indictment and no access to a lawyer. We are joined by Brandon Buskey, staff attorney with the Criminal Law Reform Project at the ACLU and lead attorney on the case in Scott County, Mississippi.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We end today’s show with a look at another case of prisoners held in jail indefinitely, this time in Mississippi. The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a federal lawsuit against Scott County, which is about 25 miles from the capital of Jackson, over allegations that it has held prisoners for nearly a year without formal charge or access to an attorney. The two plaintiffs named in the case are Octavious Burks, held for more than 10 months without formal charge, and Joshua Bassett, held for eight months. Burks was arrested for armed robbery, and Bassett for grand larceny and possession of methamphetamine. Overall, the ACLU estimates at least 50 people are being held in the Scott County jail in a similar situation—no indictment and no access to a lawyer.
AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by Brandon Buskey, staff attorney with the Criminal Law Reform Project at the ACLU, lead attorney in the case in Scott County, Mississippi.
Welcome to Democracy Now! How did you find this case? Lay out what you found there.
BRANDON BUSKEY: Well, we have been investigating the situation in Mississippi throughout the state for roughly a year and a half. We knew, coming in, that there was a serious problem with the right to counsel throughout the state, and also that individuals, even before they are formally charged with the crime, faced an indefinite amount of time in jail, because the state places no limit on the amount of time that an individual may be in jail before the prosecutor has to bring a formal indictment. So, in making contacts throughout the state and in talking to public defenders, talking to judges, talking to civil rights lawyers, we were able to establish a fairly decent network.
And it so happened that about two months ago, we received a call concerning Octavious Burks, the individual that you just showed on the screen just there. It was from his family. They were completely desperate and seeking help, trying to understand what was happening with their son. He had been in jail since November of last year on an attempted armed robbery charge. It’s a very serious charge. However, he wanted his day in court, and he wanted a lawyer. But in Scott County, he was not being provided with either of those. And so, when they reached out to us, they wanted to know why he had not been assigned an attorney and why it had taken so long even to bring a formal charge, and if he was going to be charged at all in the case.
So we began looking into it, making visits, seeking documents, and we found out that basically the standing policy in Scott County, like in so many other places throughout Mississippi, is not to assign an individual an attorney until they’ve been indicted. Now, if you’re in New York City, for example, that may not be a big deal, because the prosecutor has only six days from the time of arrest to bring an indictment. However, in Scott County, what we learned, they only have—the grand jury only issues indictments about three times per year. So if you’re simply arrested during the wrong period of the year, you’re automatically waiting three and perhaps five months to even find out if the state intends to proceed against you. In Octavious’s case, the state had missed several indictment dates in his case, and that is why he had been languishing in jail since November. And so, once we found that out about his case, once we looked further into the situation in the Scott County jail and found that there were dozens of other people who were facing a very similar situation, we decided that we had to take action.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: In all these years, there’s never been a challenge in the federal courts about the due process situations here?
BRANDON BUSKEY: No, there had not. And this is one of the things that we’re really seeking to establish here, is some basic fundamental rights that have not been pressed through the courts and answered by the Supreme Court.
AMY GOODMAN: And how typical is Scott County?
BRANDON BUSKEY: Throughout Mississippi, Scott County, I fear, is fairly typical. You know, I’ve talked with public defenders and others throughout the state, and the story is very consistent. I’ve had public defenders tell me that until you’re indicted on a case, I don’t know you exist. In The New York Times—The New York Times did a wonderful piece about this situation. The senior circuit judge, who is named in this lawsuit, said, "Well, I had never heard of these cases. I can’t do anything about this case until it gets into my court." And this is a judge who oversees the entire court system. And I think that that attitude pervades the entire state. However, I do want to point out that this is not simply a problem for Mississippi.
AMY GOODMAN: We have 10 seconds.
BRANDON BUSKEY: It’s a problem nationwide. And the ACLU has been looking at these cases throughout the country in states like New York, Utah, Pennsylvania. The problem is pervasive.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you. And we will certainly continue to follow this, Brandon Buskey, staff attorney with the Criminal Law Reform Project of the ACLU, lead attorney in the Scott County, Mississippi, case.
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Biggest U.S.-Led Strikes on Iraq and Syria to Date as U.K. Joins Campaign
The U.S.-led bombing campaign in Iraq and Syria has seen its biggest day so far with British warplanes joining the attack. At least 24 strikes were launched between the two countries, where the Islamic State controls a vast stretch of territory. Britain took part in the strikes for the first time since its Parliament voted to authorize the campaign on Friday. The strikes today have hit towns including Syria’s Kobani, which has come under a sustained Islamic State assault that has forced tens of thousands of Syrian Kurds to flee.
U.S. Not Following Heightened Standards on Preventing Civilian Deaths for Syria-Iraq Strikes
The White House has confirmed it has relaxed standards aimed at preventing civilian deaths for the U.S. airstrikes in Iraq and Syria. According to Yahoo News, the Obama administration has acknowledged that a policy announced last year calling for "near certainty" of no civilian casualties in drone strikes will not apply to the current bombing. The admission came in response to queries about a strike that killed up to a dozen civilians in the Syrian village of Kafr Deryan last week. The bodies of women and children were reportedly pulled from the rubble after a missile hit a home for displaced residents.
United Nations: Funding Shortfall Threatens Food Aid for Syrian Refugees
The United Nations has issued a new warning over the dire humanitarian conditions in Syria. Briefing the Security Council, Emergency Relief Coordinator Valerie Amos said the World Food Programme will be forced to end operations unless it can obtain additional funding.
Valerie Amos: "Millions are short of food, of medicines, and almost three million children are not in school. Eleven million vulnerable people inside Syria require urgent humanitarian assistance, and of those, 6.4 million people are internally displaced. … Without additional funds, the World Food Programme will be forced to end its operations completely within two months. Rations have already been cut in order to continue to reach as many people as possible. Winter is fast approaching, and vital supplies are needed to protect people from the cold."
Taliban Launches Suicide Attack after U.S.-Afghan Troop Deal
The Taliban has carried out a suicide bombing on two buses carrying soldiers in the Afghan capital of Kabul, killing seven people and wounding 21. The attack comes one day after the signing of a U.S.-Afghan security pact that will keep 10,000 U.S. troops in the country after this year’s formal end to combat operations. U.S. Ambassador James Cunningham signed the agreement at a ceremony on Tuesday.
U.S. Ambassador James Cunningham: "This agreement will enable the United States to help the security forces to build on its progress after the ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) mission comes to a close and as a new NATO mission begins. Our close defense and security cooperation will provide the foundation for Afghanistan to continue its impressive development and to build on the achievements of the past. Our agreement will also contribute to stability not only in Afghanistan, but throughout the region."
The new Afghan president, Ashraf Ghani, signed the accord after his predecessor, Hamid Karzai, refused to ratify it.
Tens of Thousands Continue Pro-Democracy Protests in Hong Kong
Tens of thousands remain the streets of Hong Kong in the fourth day of mass protests calling for greater political freedom. The demonstrations swelled over the weekend after a crackdown on students opposing China’s plan to select candidates in Hong Kong’s 2017 elections. Protest leaders have vowed to remain and take over government buildings until the resignation of Hong Kong city leader, Leung Chun-ying, and a free vote for his successor. Today’s protests come as China and Hong Kong observe National Day, which marks the anniversary of Communist China’s founding.
CDC Says First U.S. Ebola Case Can Be Contained
A patient who recently returned from Liberia has been diagnosed with the first case of Ebola in the United States. The head of the Centers for Disease Control, Thomas Frieden announced the news on Monday, one day after the patient’s admission to a Dallas hospital.
Dr. Thomas Frieden: "This individual left Liberia on the 19th of September; arrived in the U.S. on the 20th of September; had no symptoms when departing Liberia or entering this country, but four or five days later, around the 24th of September, began to develop symptoms; on the 26th of September, initially sought care; and Sunday, the 28th of September, was admitted to a hospital in Texas and placed on isolation. We received in our laboratory today specimens from the individual, tested them, and they tested positive for Ebola."
The CDC says family members and others who made contact with the patient after he fell ill could be placed in isolation to prevent wider infection. Passengers who traveled on the same U.S.-bound plane wouldn’t be at risk, because the virus is only spread through direct contact with the bodily fluids of a patient showing symptoms. At his news conference, Thomas Frieden said he believes this case will be contained.
Dr. Thomas Frieden: "The bottom line here is that I have no doubt that we will control this importation or this case of Ebola so that it does not spread widely in this country. It is certainly possible that someone who had contact with this individual, a family member or other individual, could develop Ebola in the coming weeks, but there is no doubt in my mind that we will stop it here."
Obama Approves Asylum Plan for Migrant Children
President Obama has reportedly approved a plan that would let several thousand child refugees from Central America apply for asylum in the United States. The approach focuses on having the children apply from their home countries instead of making the dangerous trek to cross the U.S. border. The plan does not increase the number of refugees allowed in, capping visas for Latin America and the Carribean at 4,000.
Oklahoma Modifies Execution Protocol after Botched Killing
Oklahoma prison officials have released a new protocol for executions following April’s botched lethal injection of Clayton Lockett, which lasted 43 minutes. Media witnesses described Lockett writhing and moaning in apparent agony. Lockett was injected with an untested cocktail of drugs, which included midazolam, a sedative also used in other prolonged executions, including one that lasted two hours in Arizona. The new protocol in Oklahoma allows the continued use of midazolam, but calls for a dose five times what Lockett received. Changes also include more staff training, contingency plans for when problems arise, and a reduction of the number of media witnesses at executions by more than half — from 12 to five.
Secret Service Chief under Fire as New Revelations Emerge About White House Intruder
More damaging revelations have emerged about the Secret Service amidst an uproar over an armed intruder who made it inside the White House. Secret Service officials previously said Omar Gonzalez, a former Army sniper who was carrying a knife, was caught near the main entry. But it emerged this week he actually managed to run past a stairway to the first family’s living quarters and through the East Room before he was apprehended. The Washington Post now reports the agent who caught Gonzalez was off-duty, but happened to come across him after his breach. Secret Service agents had also observed Gonzalez around the White House in the hours before he jumped the fence. Appearing before a House panel, Secret Service Director Julia Pierson apologized for the incident.
Julia Pierson: "It is clear that our security plan was not properly executed. This is unacceptable, and I take full responsibility, and I will make sure that it does not happen again. … I am committed to the following: a complete and thorough investigation of the facts of this incident; a complete and thorough review of all policies, procedures, protocols in place that govern the the security of the White House complex and a response to this incident; and based on the results of that review, a coordinated, informed effort to make any and all adjustments to include training and personnel actions that are necessary to properly ensure the safety and security of the president and the first family and the White House."
Pierson came under repeated criticism throughout the hearing, with several lawmakers calling for an independent investigation of the Secret Service’s competency to protect the president. The outcry grew on Tuesday with news that an armed security guard with a criminal record was allowed to ride in the same elevator as President Obama in Atlanta earlier this month, a breach of protocol.
Obama Hosts Indian PM for White House Dinner
President Obama hosted Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday for a White House meeting. Modi also met with top congressional leaders and Secretary of State John Kerry. Kerry praised Modi’s massive reception before thousands at New York’s Madison Square Garden on Sunday.
Secretary of State John Kerry: "No matter how warm our welcome here today, we’re going never be able to top your rock star reception at Madison Square Garden. Billy Joel called me this morning to make sure you hadn’t taken his regular gig there. None of us have been able to turn on a television or pick up a newspaper without seeing the celebrity coverage that the prime minister has received. And with it, for all of us, there is a shared excitement and a sense of shared possibility."
On Tuesday night, President Obama hosted Modi and around 24 others for a private White House dinner. Before his election, Modi was barred from the United States for many years over his role in 2002 anti-Muslim riots that left more than 1,000 dead. Modi was the chief minister of Gujarat, where the killings occurred. He has never apologized for or explained his actions at the time.
U.K. Drops Terrorism Case Against Former Guantánamo Prisoner
British prosecutors have dropped a new terrorism case against a former Guantánamo Bay prisoner who spent three years in U.S. custody without charge or trial. Moazzam Begg has been held for seven months in Britain since his arrest on terrorism charges related to a trip he made to Syria. Begg, who heads the prisoner advocacy group Cage, has said he is being "harassed" for investigating British complicity in torture. Earlier today, a British judge ordered Begg’s release after prosecutors said there is insufficient evidence to bring him to trial.
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