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An Ohio grand jury has declined to indict the white police officer who fatally shot John Crawford. A 22-year-old African American, Crawford was killed inside a Wal-Mart store last month after a caller phoned police to accuse him of brandishing a gun and pointing it at other customers. In fact, Crawford had picked up an unloaded BB air rifle on a shelf, an item that is sold in the store. Newly released surveillance footage shows major discrepancies between a 911 caller’s account, and what really happened. The Justice Department now says it will launch a federal review to determine if Crawford’s civil rights were violated. We are joined by two guests: Rashad Robinson, executive director of Color of Change, a national organization that has campaigned for Wal-Mart to release the surveillance tapes, and James Hayes, founding member of the Ohio Student Association, which has been organizing protests over the shooting.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to Ohio, where a grand jury has declined to indict a white police officer who shot and killed a 22-year-old African-American man named John Crawford. On August 5th, four days before the unarmed black teenager Michael Brown was fatally shot by police in a case that ignited the country, John Crawford walked into a Wal-Mart in Beavercreek, Ohio. According to his girlfriend, the two went to the store to buy supplies for making s’mores at a cookout. As he walked around the store, talking on his cellphone, Crawford picked up an unloaded BB air rifle that was lying on a shelf.
AMY GOODMAN: Surveillance footage released Wednesday, following the grand jury’s decision, shows what happened next. As Crawford stands in the pet supplies aisle talking on his cellphone, a customer calls 911. In this footage, the 911 call has been synced with the surveillance footage.
911 OPERATOR: Beavercreek 911. Where is your emergency?
RONALD RITCHIE: I’m at the Beavercreek Wal-Mart. There is a gentleman walking around with a gun in the store.
911 OPERATOR: Has he got it pulled out?
RONALD RITCHIE: Yeah, he’s like pointing it at people.
911 OPERATOR: What does he look like?
RONALD RITCHIE: He’s a black male, probably about six-foot tall.
911 OPERATOR: OK. What’s he wearing?
RONALD RITCHIE: Blue shirt, blue pants.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: While the caller, Ronald Ritchie, claims Crawford is pointing the gun at people, the surveillance footage shows he’s pointing the gun at the ground, occasionally swinging it and prodding supplies on a shelf in front of him. Ritchie later acknowledged to The Guardian, quote, "At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody."
AMY GOODMAN: Minutes into the call, Ritchie tells a dispatcher Crawford is pointing the gun at two children. The surveillance footage shows that while a woman and two children appear at the end of the same aisle, Crawford never actually points the gun at them.
911 OPERATOR: He’s a black male, black shirt and blue jeans?
RONALD RITCHIE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Does he have a hat or anything on?
RONALD RITCHIE: No, he’s got like an Afro.
911 OPERATOR: An Afro? Beavercreek, did you get that?
POLICE OFFICER: I got that. Heading after.
RONALD RITCHIE: I hear police. And he just pointed—
911 OPERATOR: What is your name again, sir?
RONALD RITCHIE: My name’s Ronald Ritchie. He just pointed it at like two children.
AMY GOODMAN: Just over a minute later, police appear in the footage. In the span of about a second, police can be heard shouting at Crawford and shooting him twice. Crawford is facing to the side, with the BB gun swinging loosely toward the ground. As the officers advance, he appears to bend his knees.
911 OPERATOR: Sir, what’s going on?
RONALD RITCHIE: Gunshots in the store. Police officers are here. They’re on the scene.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Crawford collapses, and police move to restrain him. He was taken to a hospital but died of his wounds. LeeCee Johnson, the mother of Crawford’s two young children, said she was on the phone with him and heard him tell police, "It’s not real." She put the call on speakerphone, and John Crawford’s father, who was with Johnson at the time, said he heard his son gasping for air. He told the Cincinnati Enquirer, "I’m virtually listening to my kid taking his last breath."
AMY GOODMAN: Another woman also lost her life that day at the Wal-Mart. In the panic that ensued amidst the police advance, a customer named Angela Williams, the one shown earlier in the pet aisle shopping with her two young children, went into cardiac arrest and died.
Well, on Wednesday, a special grand jury concluded police were justified in shooting John Crawford. At a news conference, the special prosecutor who handled the case, Mark Piepmeier, acknowledged that without Ronald Ritchie’s 911 call, the shooting never would have happened.
MARK PIEPMEIER: We’ve got a caller who I think, for the most part, saw what he said on the 911 call. Some of the things he said on the 911 call, maybe he was trying to fill in some gaps in what he saw, but he very clearly tells the 911 operator, "I’m in a Wal-Mart. There’s a guy in here with an assault rifle. He’s loading it, and he’s pointing it at people." And this is what is communicated to the police officers. But one officer even calls back in, and he’s basically, "Wait a minute. Are you saying he’s actually pointing it at people?" And they say, "Yes." And the law is real clear. When you’re a police officer responding to the scene, it’s not what is true or not true, it’s what you reasonably believe to be true. And there’s no reason for these officers not to believe that’s what’s going on.
AMY GOODMAN: The Justice Department says they’ll review the shooting.
To talk more about the case, we’re joined by two guests. In New York, Rashad Robinson is with us, executive director of Color of Change, a national organization that’s been calling for weeks for Wal-Mart to release the surveillance tapes. And in Columbus, Ohio, James Hayes is founding member of the Ohio Student Association, which has been organizing protests over the shooting of John Crawford.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! John, let’s go to you first—James, let’s go to you first in Columbus. Talk about your reaction to the grand jury not finding the police officers guilty in the shooting.
JAMES HAYES: Well, first, thank you all for having me on the show. You know, many of us were present while they were making the announcement, and to be honest, none of us were shocked. For weeks, the family has been asking for the Department of Justice to open their own investigation, because the writing was on the wall that the grand jury would return with no indictment. The last time that Beavercreek, Ohio, was in national news, they were fighting the regional transit authority from putting a bus stop near their mall that would allow residents from Dayton to access the mall, people who work there, people who shop there. You know, we already know how Greene County jurors vote. There’s just this good ol’ boys’ network and this—many conflicts of interest which, we understood, made it unlikely that an indictment would be found.
So we weren’t surprised, but we were very saddened. We were very saddened that the jury was unable to indict these officers, unable to push this case forward for a jury trial, saddened that the prosecutor didn’t really attempt to prosecute this officer, but instead seemed to be justifying the decisions, trying to figure out how to show that there was no one at fault. But we—while being saddened, we understand that we must push forward, and it only strengthens our resolve to fight for justice for John, his family, and to fight for true systemic change that will make sure that there are fewer and fewer John Crawfords.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, James Hayes, why did it take so long for this video to come out, after the grand jury decision? Clearly, everyone knew that there had to be surveillance cameras inside the Wal-Mart that might have captured some of these events.
JAMES HAYES: That’s something we’ve been asking for since a week after John was killed: Release the tape. Our first round of actions, we had an action in Cleveland. We had a march in Beavercreek, where about 200 protesters went to the Beavercreek police station. And that round of protests culminated in an action at our Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine’s office. The day after that, Mike DeWine allowed the family and the lawyers to see about six minutes of the footage from the Wal-Mart security cameras. Afterwards, the family said, "Our son was murdered." And we were pushing for a public release, but we were told that it could take up to two to three years for that tape to be released, when we initially went and spoke with representatives from Mike DeWine’s office.
It’s clear that they knew if they released the tape before the jury made its decision, that the public was going to come to a decision before them. And everyone who’s seen the tape, it’s resonating across the country right now. People are seeing that John Crawford had absolutely no time to respond to the officers. They entered the store at 8:25, and by 8:27, John Crawford was on the ground with two bullets inside of his body. And I honestly think that they knew that they were going to not try to really indict this officer, and they didn’t want the public to indict him before the grand jury had an opportunity to make their decision.
AMY GOODMAN: The Crawford family’s attorney, Michael Wright, reacted to the grand jury’s decision in a statement that said, quote, "Rather than advocate for the constitutional rights of John Crawford, III and Angela Williams, the other victim in this case, Attorney General DeWine and Special Prosecutor Mark Piepmeier made excuses for the officer’s actions and have erroneously argued the officer’s actions were 'reasonable'." The statement continued, quote, "The Crawford family feels they have been victimized all over again and once again request that the U.S. Department of Justice conduct an independent investigation into the tragic death of John H. Crawford, III." This is John Crawford’s girlfriend, LeeCee Johnson, who was on the phone with Crawford—this is the mother of his two children—when police shot him.
LEECEE JOHNSON: I just heard them just shoot him like he wasn’t nothing. He was just telling them that it wasn’t real. And he didn’t even give him a chance to respond. They just shot.
AMY GOODMAN: "It’s not real." Johnson says those were Crawford’s last words. Crawford’s father says he heard his son’s last moments on speakerphone. He later watched the surveillance video showing his death and described what he saw.
JOHN CRAWFORD JR.: That was just unbelievable. That’s all I could tell to you. I pray that no one ever, ever has to go through what we’re going through. It’s unconscionable. You know, I saw my son getting murdered.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to turn now to Special Prosecutor Mark Piepmeier describing how the police officer who shot Crawford responded to the 911 call.
MARK PIEPMEIER: I mean, again, you could see how serious this was, because he gets out of his car, puts his regular service piece in the trunk, gets out an assault rifle. The other officer shows up, does the same thing—puts on his tactical vest, gets his assault rifle. So it’s very obvious from what they did they thought this was the real deal. And then they’re beating feet in there; they’re not just walking around. You can see as they’re coming in. I mean, it looks like a combat picture. And that’s what these guys were taught. That’s how they’re taught to approach this kind of thing.
AMY GOODMAN: Special Prosecutor Mark Piepmeier acknowledged the police response might have been a little bit over the top. James Hayes, who is Special Prosecutor Piepmeier?
JAMES HAYES: Well, in Ohio, we know Mark Piepmeier as the prosecutor who failed to bring justice in the Timothy Thomas trial, which, before the events in Ferguson, was the last time there was an uprising in an American city around race relations. We know him as the prosecutor who sent the inmates in Lucasville prison uprising to death row. When he was appointed, it was clear that this was not a good sign for what would happen in Greene County, and it was more fuel to the fire in terms of trying to bring the Department of Justice in to open their own investigation.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what about the context of this happening in Greene County? For listeners and viewers around the country, tell us a little bit about Greene County.
JAMES HAYES: Well, as I said earlier, you know, the last time that Beavercreek, Ohio, was in national news, they were trying to keep black people out of their city, trying to keep black people from shopping in their mall, trying to keep the black people who work in their mall from having an easy access through public transit. You know, Greene County is a place where, in the ’30s and ’40s and even before that, many Southerners were moving up for job opportunities, working at the Air Force base in the area. And those mentalities and attitudes are still prevalent.
You know, our attorney general, Mike DeWine, is from Greene County. He grew up there and began his political career there as a prosecutor. His daughter is currently a prosecutor there. There’s a good ol’ boys network that has power in the county still to this day. And, you know, it’s clear that the nepotism and the conflicts of interest in this case are especially ripe.
Officer Williams, the shooter, the man who killed John Crawford, his father was also on the Beavercreek police force, you know, and so it’s no surprise that he’s receiving special treatment. I mean, this is the second time that Officer Williams has killed somebody in Greene County in the last four years. So it’s pretty clear that he should not be a police officer. I mean, if a Wal-Mart employee misses two shifts, they’re going to be fired. So, you know, even if this was the most genuine, honest mistake, it’s pretty clear that this officer should be let go and try to find something else that he can do better.
But Greene County is a place where we were always worried that we would be unable to find justice. It’s a place—and it’s one of the reasons that led to us wanting to make the pilgrimage, make the journey, from the Wal-Mart where John Crawford was killed to the courthouse in Xenia, walking through those back roads in through Greene County so we could, in our action, not only bring attention from around the country to Greene County, but give an opportunity for us to show the residents of Greene County, those who are with us and those who are against us, that people are willing to take action in this case.
AMY GOODMAN: James Hayes is speaking to us from Columbus, Ohio, Rashad Robinson here in New York, executive director of Color of Change, usually in the Bay Area. Wal-Mart is the largest retailer of rifles in the country.
RASHAD ROBINSON: Absolutely. They have spent years lobbying for looser gun laws in this country. You know, partnering with the American Legislative Exchange Council, they actually wrote the "Stand Your Ground" law, which became famous during the Trayvon Martin tragedy, and pushed that law, along with the NRA, to about 26 states around the country. They are the largest seller of rifles and guns in this country, and they’re also the largest employer of black people and women in this country.
And so, to the extent that—you know, part of our campaign was really focusing on what is Wal-Mart’s social responsibility in this. How are they going to sort of hide behind what’s happening and not release those tapes? There were over 200 cameras in that store. And we had to wait weeks and weeks for any sense of understanding of what happened. So, for customers, for black folks who are shopping in Wal-Mart and working in Wal-Mart, what can they expect from this giant about their safety?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And obviously, the fact that those tapes were not released until now, when this occurred even before the shooting in Ferguson, shows that this would have created an even bigger national furor if those tapes had come out at that time.
RASHAD ROBINSON: Absolutely. I mean, here’s what’s happening, all around the country. You know, at Color of Change, we continue to hear the stories from our members. We continue to see these issues bubble up over and over and over again, where black people are harmed, are put—or killed by police officers, and there’s no sense of justice, no sense of accountability. The fact of the matter is, is that for black parents, for people who are family members or care about black people, the idea that we can expect any sense of justice or any sense of safety from our law enforcement figures, that we can call 911 and expect the law enforcement figures to show up and protect us and see our lives as valuable and with humanity—Ohio has open-carry laws. Part of that has been pushed by the NRA. So, John—
AMY GOODMAN: Which are?
RASHAD ROBINSON: Which open-carry laws means that you can carry a gun around openly in the state of Ohio. You can carry a gun into Wal-Mart. So, in fact, even if he did have the gun in the store, he was not breaking the law. These laws do not protect black people, because police officers are not trained to see black people as human. And this is an ongoing problem, and all of us have to be deeply concerned.
AMY GOODMAN: You were in Ferguson. The key point in both these cases, Piepmeier laid it out: It’s not the truth that matters, it’s what the police officers believed. And they saw that area as a combat zone—Michael Brown, too, on the street, how the police officer saw him.
RASHAD ROBINSON: It’s absolutely about sort of this racism and implicit bias that exist in our society. And also, the fact of the matter is that police are allowed to investigate themselves, that we have this political system where prosecutors have no incentive, where the victims are black and the police officers are white, to prosecute vigorously. We saw this press conference, and we saw the press conferences coming out of Ferguson. Right from the start in both of those situations, we saw that the decks were stacked against justice, that there was sort of not going to be a sense of fairness, that there was not going to be a sense of fair play for the victims in these cases. And the fact of the matter is, is that the video not being released, the political apparatus in Ohio had weeks to criminalize John Crawford in death, the same way that Michael Brown was criminalized in death, that we’re releasing all sorts of information, and we’re trying to create a sense of doubt in the community’s mind, and so when these cases go to the grand jury, when they go to the community, that folks have sort of this understanding that these are not people that deserve our sympathy, that deserve to be seen as victims.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: James Hayes, I wanted to ask you one other point. As I understand it, initial press reports indicated there were multiple 911 calls to the police, and it turned out that there was really only one 911 call to the police, the one that we featured earlier on. Is that accurate?
JAMES HAYES: Absolutely accurate. The only—there were multiple 911 calls, but the only one before officers entered the store and fired shots was by Ronald Ritchie.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, on that note, I want to thank you both for being with us. Here in New York, Rashad Robinson is the executive director of Color of Change. James Hayes, with us in Columbus, founding member of the Ohio Student Association, which has been organizing protests around the shooting of John Crawford, holding a BB gun in a Wal-Mart store that he had picked up off the shelf, talking on the phone at the time, and as the police came in, saying, "It’s not real. It’s not real."
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’ll be joined by Abdullah Elshamy. He is the Al Jazeera reporter who was held for more than 10 months in prison in Egypt. Stay with us.
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In a global television and radio exclusive, we are joined by Abdullah Elshamy, the Al Jazeera journalist who was released from an Egyptian prison after he sustained a five-month hunger strike. Elshamy was freed from prison in June after being held for 10 months without charges. During his imprisonment, he lost over a third of his body weight. He is in New York City to lobby for the release of his fellow Al Jazeera reporters still imprisoned in Egypt. As he walked across the street on Wednesday to the United Nations where Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi delivered a speech, Sisi supporters threw hot coffee on him. Sisi is set to meet with President Obama and reportedly request more U.S. assistance — including military hardware. Human Rights Watch is calling on Obama to use the meeting to publicly criticize Egypt’s continued crackdown on human rights, including the widespread jailing of political opponents and journalists, mass death sentences, and lack of accountability for the killing of more than 1,000 protesters by security forces in July and August 2013.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: On Wednesday, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi delivered his inaugural speech to the United Nations General Assembly meeting in New York. He applauded his nation for, quote, "revolting against corruption and despotism," and he vowed that Egypt, under his rule, will respect freedom of opinion and religion.
PRESIDENT ABDEL FATTAH EL-SISI: [translated] From this podium, I first support the great people of Egypt that made history twice over the past few years: first, when they revolted against corruption and despotism and claimed their right to freedom, dignity and social justice; then, when they held onto their identity and, enthused by patriotism, they rose up against exclusion, refusing to succumb to tyranny of a faction who, in the name of religion, put there interests before the interests of the people. ... Our aim is to build a new Egypt, a state that represents its rights and freedoms, honors its duties, and ensures co-existence of its citizens without exclusion or discrimination, a state that represents and enforces the rule of law, guarantees freedom of opinion for all, and ensures freedom of belief and worship to its people.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi is set to meet with President Obama and reportedly request more U.S. assistance, including military hardware. Human Rights Watch is calling on Obama to use the meeting to publicly criticize Egypt’s continued crackdown on human rights, including the widespread jailing of political opponents, mass death sentences, and lack of accountability for the killing of more than 1,000 protesters by security forces in July and August of 2013.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, dozens of Egyptians have begun a hunger strike to demand the release of imprisoned activists they say are being unjustly detained. The Egyptian Press Syndicate recently held a sit-in hunger strike in its offices in Cairo to demand the release of political prisoners.
Well, in a Democracy Now! global TV/radio/web exclusive, we’re joined now by one of Egypt’s formerly imprisoned hunger strikers, Abdullah Elshamy, Al Jazeera journalist who was recently released from prison in Egypt after being held for 10 months without charge. During his imprisonment, Abdullah Elshamy went on a hunger strike for nearly five months, reportedly lost over a third of his body weight. He’s in New York to lobby for his fellow Al Jazeera reporters still in prison. On Wednesday, as Abdullah walked across the street to the United Nations, where the Egyptian president spoke, Sisi supporters threw hot coffee on him. Abdullah Elshamy is with us now in New York.
Welcome to Democracy Now! What happened? Tell us what happened just yesterday.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Well, I was actually trying to get to the United Nations building, because, you know, I was accredited to go inside to kind of attend the sessions. And I had two of my colleagues from Al Jazeera along with me, so we were just walking down the street. That was probably 47th Street. And there were protests there—you know, Chinese people, Iranians and other people. And then, suddenly, one of the Sisi supporters—it was a lady, I remember—she kind of identified me and said—you know, started shouting to the others, "Guys, this is the traitor! This is the guy from Al Jazeera!" And they started shouting against me. And then, just for me, kind of, you know, ease things down, because they looked so aggressive, I kind of walked back to where I was coming from. And then, suddenly, I didn’t actually see the person, but I felt something was thrown on my legs and my back. And then, when I saw it, it was boiling coffee. And, well, what’s actually disappointing is that when we reported this to the police, they said, "We can’t do anything, because we were not there." So, this is what actually happened.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, when we were showing that clip of President Sisi, you mentioned that a lot of the same people around him at the U.N. were there during the Mubarak era. Could you talk about that?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Well, I mean, they say this is a new country, this is the new Egypt, yet it’s the very same faces, yeah, the very same guys who during Mubarak time were supporting all his tyranny and dictatorship. And you can’t change to a new system without changing the people responsible for that system. He claims there’s, you know, freedom and press has a right to do whatever they want—they can even criticize him, he said that on CBS with Charlie Rose. But yet, my colleagues, Peter Greste, Baher Mohamed and Mohamed Fahmy, are still in prison, in prison now for over eight months, and other many dozens of journalists are still in prison.
AMY GOODMAN: You were arrested before they were. You were held for 10 months. You worked for Al Jazeera Arabic, though you’re moving over to English. They work for Al Jazeera English. What happened to you? When were you taken?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Actually, on the 14th of August, when the security forces started cracking down on the protest at Rabaa Square and other places.
AMY GOODMAN: 2013.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yes, last year. I was just covering, you know, what’s happening there, just like any other day, because I had been stationed to cover that place since the 5th of July. I actually work in West Africa. That’s where my—you know, where I’m based, in Nigeria. But I was asked to move to Egypt to kind of cover there. So, on that day—
AMY GOODMAN: And you are Egyptian.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: I am Egyptian, yes. And on that day, the security forces kind of, you know, made it hard for anyone to leave. I mean, I remember—they claim that there was some kind of warning for people to get out before they started clearing the place, which is not true, because at 7:00 in the morning I was in the makeshift hospital, and I’ve seen dozens of bodies inside there. So, at the end of that day, when the whole place was raided, and there was actually not any kind of resistance from the protesters, I had to leave. And I was at that time in the Rabaa hospital. It’s different from the makeshift hospital. It’s like a six-story building there. So, they stormed the building with guns and weapons and different—you know, there were mostly special forces, and they asked everyone to leave and to kind of surrender by putting their hands behind their heads. So I kind of left.
The only exit was through Rabaa mosque towards the seventh district of Nasr City, where the protest was taking place. And then I had to cross to a police checkpoint. There were two checkpoints: one, a police checkpoint, and then the one later was an army checkpoint. At the police checkpoint, nothing happened. But when I got close to the army checkpoint, I was asked to show my ID to one of the army officers. And that’s actually when my detention journey started, because I remember them saying that, oh—he was telling his colleague that "I think we’ve just got a spy," because when they saw my passport, and it had—because of my work as a journalist, it had many visas, and, you know, it was mostly filled up, so they thought, "Well, we’ve got somebody here." And that’s when my detention started.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And did they ever formally file charges against you during that period of time—
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Well, actually—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: —that you were being held?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yeah. Well, actually, we were about a thousand people who were detained that day, and everyone was charged with the same things, you know, things like inciting murder, possessing weapons illegally, assaulting police officers, causing public disorder—mostly these kind of crimes. It’s actually 15 charges. But actually, this was never brought up to a court, because there’s not any kind of evidence. And it was just, you know, plain charges.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about the hunger strike that you went on, that you launched in prison.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Well, after five months of my detention, you know, I felt that this was going nowhere, because trying to go through the justice system was kind of hopeless. There was just the usual detention renewal every 45 days. They take us as a group of people, almost 300 in one time, to see a judge, who doesn’t really listen to us or even to our lawyers. And even sometimes when the judge listens, he kind of makes the same decision every time. So I kind of lost hope in the whole judicial system. And I believe it’s a total farce, because it doesn’t really—it lacks any basics of justice.
So I decided I was going to embark on this hunger strike to kind of tell the world that I’m a journalist, I’ve been in prison for over five months now, and nothing is—you know, why am I in jail? This is what I just wanted to say. I said, "If I’ve actually done anything, then, well, take it against me and put me in jail. But there’s nothing." So, I decided I was starting this on the 21st of January. And I knew it was going to be a long wait 'til I get my freedom back, because I was trying, you know, to kind of use former experiences of hunger strikers around the world in the last century to kind of give me support. So, that's why I started the hunger strike.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And meanwhile, you were being shuttled back and forth from one prison to another, held in solitary confinement for a while. Talk about those experiences.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yeah, actually, I was held in four jails. The longest was Liman Abu Zaabal. It’s a prison kind of northeast of Cairo. It’s in the Nile Delta. And I stayed there from the 20th of August 2013 ’til the 16th of December that same year. And there was another prison, Istiqbal Tora, which I stayed there from the 16th of December ’til the 12th of May. And the last was the maximum-security prison, usually known as the Scorpion, al-Aqrab, for 37 days. The last one was actually the most kind of—the most painful for me, because I was in solitary confinement all the time, and I was not allowed to get in contact with anybody and was cut out from the outside world.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to what you said outside the prison when you were released. This is just after you were freed. This is Abdullah Elshamy.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: I have won, and everybody who is a freedom fighter, either a journalist or anyone doing his work credibly and with honesty, has won, because this isn’t—I mean, this experience has changed my life. I am not the person who I had been anymore. I am now more determined than before to carry on with this struggle, not just because of me, because for everyone to be able to do their job freely. A hundred and forty-nine days of hunger strike is an experience, of course, I will never forget in my life. Everyone who has been into this battle, the battle of hunger strike, has always won; there have never been any losers.
AMY GOODMAN: That was on the 17th of June, when Abdullah Elshamy, the Al Jazeera journalist, was released after 10 months in prison. So today you’re here in New York, and so is the Egyptian president, under whose regime you were held, under Sisi’s government, and before, you were held. He has met with former Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright, and then he met with former President Clinton and Hillary Clinton, secretary of state, who was—who may well be running for president. Your thoughts about this and what you’re calling on President Sisi to do and why you’re here in the United States?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Well, I’m here to lobby for my colleagues, my three colleagues from Al Jazeera English, who have been in prison now for over 10 months, I believe, 270 days. And this is actually the thing that every official in the United States, starting from President Obama or Secretary of State John Kerry or any other official, who kind of believe that Sisi is really going to keep up his promises, you know, through spreading democracy and preserving freedom of press, should kind of put more pressure on him, because I believe this is the only way that my colleagues will be out, because pressure has worked in my own case. It has worked in other cases, like Alaa el-Fattah and other prisoners who were able to get back their freedom. They should actually do more, because I remember Secretary of State John Kerry, one day before the sentence, saying that he was given a firm promise from Sisi to keep a good record of human rights, and the next day you see seven and 10 days—sorry, seven and 10 years for my colleagues. So, I think if really the United States wanted to do more, they can do to put more pressure on him. And at the same time, I think all what he says or what he says is not really true, because he claimed with Charlie Rose on CBS that the freedom of press was preserved and everybody had the right to say anything, yet you see Peter and Baher and Mohamed imprisoned for over eight months now. You see other journalists also in prison. And I think also—I think if really that pressure is taken to an utmost level, then that will definitely work, because that’s the only way the new government in Egypt—I mean, that’s the only language they start understanding.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And clearly, it’s not just the journalists, it’s thousands of others who are also in jail in Egypt, right?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Definitely, definitely. And one of them, which is Mohamed Soltan, the American citizen who’s been in prison for over one year now without any kind of charge, and he’s been on hunger strike for eight months now. And I kind of think that there should be more done for him. Last session, which was just two days ago, he was not even able to go to court. And the American ambassador was not allowed in. So I think this is really shameful and disgraceful that the United States doesn’t do more for the cause of press freedom and freedom generally.
AMY GOODMAN: He is reportedly—Mohamed Soltan, the 26-year-old American citizen—
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: —is reportedly near death.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yes, that’s true, because, actually, he is suffering from some medical conditions. He was suffering from that even before his imprisonment. And he doesn’t get any kind of medical care. And the last court session, the judge said that he should not be taken to hospital without his own permission, which is kind of, you know, making it harder for him.
AMY GOODMAN: You were held before Sisi was elected and then a little bit afterwards, after he was elected, is that right?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Yes. When do you head back? But you won’t be going to Egypt, I assume.
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: You will not be returning to Egypt?
ABDULLAH ELSHAMY: Not anytime soon, I think, because the atmosphere in the country now is not welcoming for journalism, especially the kind of journalism that’s really after telling the truth and, you know, doesn’t really take any kind of political stance, because I can’t go back to Egypt and my colleagues are still there, I mean, at least, you know, when there are not any kind of signs that their release is imminent or their conditions are improving. But yet, I’m hoping that the appeal, which was filed for them a month ago, would work, and hopefully we’ll see them and see other prisoners in Egypt walk free back to their families.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you very much, Abdullah Elshamy, for joining us, Al Jazeera journalist who was recently released from prison in Egypt after being held for more than 10 months without charge. During his imprisonment, he went on a hunger strike for nearly five months, losing a third of his body weight. Again, his colleagues, Al Jazeera journalists Peter Greste, Baher Mohamed and Mohamed Fahmy, remain in jail, in an Egyptian jail, after eight months.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, it’s the climate week, with the largest climate march in history, U.N. climate summit on Tuesday. We’ll talk to Kumi Naidoo, executive director of Greenpeace International. Stay with us.
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The People’s Climate March, which saw hundreds of thousands around the world take to the streets for action on global warming in New York City, was followed this week by a United Nations climate summit in which world leaders advanced an agenda devoid of binding commitments. We discuss this global climate week and what comes next with Kumi Naidoo, executive director of Greenpeace International. On the eve of the climate summit, Greenpeace projected the message "Listen to the People, Not the Polluters!" on the side of the U.N. building. Much of Greenpeace’s focus here has been on the need to protect the Arctic. During a meeting with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the group handed over a petition with six million signatures calling for its long-term protection. With scientists reporting the region is warming more than twice as fast as the global average, Greenpeace and other groups are calling for a ban on oil exploration of the area. Watch Part 2 of this interview.
Image Credit: Michael Nagle / Greenpeace
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: This week, world leaders have wrapped up a one-day day United Nations summit on climate change with pledges to tackle global warming, but no binding commitments. On the eve of the climate summit, Greenpeace projected the message, "Listen to the People, Not the Polluters!" on the side of the U.N. building.
AMY GOODMAN: Much of Greenpeace’s focus here has been on the need to protect the Arctic. During a meeting with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, they handed over a petition with six million signatures calling for its long-term protection. Scientists say the region is warming more than twice as fast as the global average. Greenpeace and other groups are calling for a ban on oil exploration of the area.
For more, we’re joined by Kumi Naidoo, executive director of Greenpeace International.
Welcome back to Democracy Now! Your T-shirt says, "The Arctic affects us all." Kumi, talk about your meeting with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the significance of this week in New York.
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, if forests are the lungs of the planet, the Arctic is the air conditioner and the refrigerator of the planet. When Hurricane Sandy happened here, for example, for the first time we started hearing mainstream American journalists talk about a polar vortex and Arctic freeze. And thankfully, people are understanding that what happens in the Arctic, unlike when Americans say, "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas," what happens in the Arctic does not stay in the Arctic. So, the meeting with the secretary-general was to ask him to call for a special summit of world leaders on the Arctic. Thankfully, he didn’t officially comment immediately, but he said he will consider and consult.
We also presented him with a declaration saying that the upper Arctic should be declared a global sanctuary, in the same way that the Antarctic is, where there’s no oil drilling, no industrial fishing and no commercial exploitation. Bear in mind that there are four million indigenous peoples that live in the Arctic. They have lived in a delicate balance with nature, and they have—and their livelihoods have already been impacted. So, from both a human rights and an environmental perspective, we believe that protecting the Arctic is now a critical imperative. And thankfully, the secretary-general completely supports us. The question is: How do we get powerful nations that feel that they have a claim on the Arctic to back down?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And you’ve made that appeal to a half-dozen nations that are in the Arctic. What has been generally the track record or the response of these nations?
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, Finland is the first Arctic nation that supports our call. They’ve come out in saying that they will support the sanctuary. Sadly, the United States, Canada and Russia are the ones who are wanting to explore for oil and gas. I mean, President Obama is still considering giving Shell a license to explore in the Alaskan Arctic. We know that—you might remember the story of the Arctic 30 from last year. That oil now is actually coming out of the Russian Arctic. But the important thing is that there’s six million people already who have joined actively this campaign. And it was the strength of that support that Ban Ki-moon created a half an hour in his schedule to see us last week.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to play clip of you, Kumi, speaking on the phone in 2012, when you and five other Greenpeace activists occupied this Russian oil rig to protest the Arctic, the rig belonging to Gazprom. Kumi, you were being sprayed with water cannons as you spoke to us.
KUMI NAIDOO: We are being—we are being sprayed by a high-pressure hose. We’ve been holding on for the last three hours. But you probably can hear the hose, a heavy [inaudible] spray. We are in a tent. We simply want to make the point that drilling in the Arctic is completely reckless and will accelerate catastrophic climate change. But we are terribly anxious now because they are spraying us heavily with water hoses. And it’s really hard to hang on to the little tent where we are taking refuge.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Kumi, who precisely is spraying you with the water hoses?
KUMI NAIDOO: The employee—employees and the security of Gazprom. Gazprom is the oil company that is probably going to be, if we don’t stop them, the first company to start drilling oil in the Arctic. And they’ve been at us now for over an hour, so we’re really struggling to stay up here on the rig at the moment.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, that was a little hard to understand, but it was, to say the least, extremely difficult circumstances. In fact, Kumi, you were telling me the story of someone else who heard you on Democracy Now!
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, actually, this was one of my most special moments since I’ve been at Greenpeace, because two weeks after that, I was in Washington, D.C., and I was in a cab. And I get in, and the taxi driver kindly, you know, turned down the volume on the radio, because he didn’t want to disturb me. And then I recognized it was Amy’s voice. And then I said, "Oh, please, turn it up." And then he said, "Oh, do you know Amy Goodman and this program?" I said, "Yes, yes, I know it, and actually I was speaking to her recently." He says, "Oh, you were speaking to her?" And then I said, oh—"When?" I said, "Oh, it was rather weird circumstances." And then he turned around and said, "You’re not that crazy dude from Africa that was hanging off the rig in the Arctic!" And he refused to take—he refused to take a payment for my trip.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: So you got a free cab ride out of it.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what did happen? Talk about the significance of you calling attention to Gazprom, hanging off, being hit with water cannon.
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, basically, that action opened up a struggle that’s very hard to communicate, because, you know, so many people live so far away from the Arctic, and they think it’s just another world. And I think last year, when we went back, and when the Russian state took a different approach—because when we were there, the Russian coast guard didn’t act on us, right? I mean—
AMY GOODMAN: Well, you were the executive director of this international organization.
KUMI NAIDOO: Yeah, exactly. And I think it might have been that. And then, when our colleagues went back last year and they spent, you know, almost three months in prison, charged with piracy and so on, but that was maybe the unintended consequence of President Putin’s action, which led to an explosion of solidarity around the world. People know now that the Arctic is a critical part of the solution to address climate change. And I’m pleased to say that the first sitting head of state has signed the declaration that we—and he signed it in the Arctic just before he came to the United Nations. He went with us on our ship.
AMY GOODMAN: Of Finland.
KUMI NAIDOO: No, no, the president of Kiribati. President Tong went with us to the Arctic, and he got out on the ice, and he signed it. And one of the amazing things, while he was signing it, a little polar bear appeared on a ridge, you know, far above. And we—I am, after the summit, going to write every head of state to actually ask them to support the declaration. I believe that this is now winnable, that after the "urgency" voices we’ve heard at the climate summit, we now want to see whether they were just words or just—or whether it’s backed by real commitment.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to ask you about the climate summit. You also spoke there on a panel with Unilever and Cargill, two major international companies. And this whole issue of the corporations now that are stepping forward pretending or saying that they’re going to act even faster than governments are on the issue of beginning to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, is there any concern about this whole sort of "Let us do it voluntarily, rather than through treaties or through government commitments"?
KUMI NAIDOO: Absolutely perfect question, because Greenpeace’s position—some civil society groups have signed, and, you know, we can understand why they’ve signed. We’ve took a position not to sign the New York Declaration on Forests precisely because we do not believe that voluntary action on its own is going to deliver the solutions to protect our forests fast enough. We believe that there has to be strong governmental leadership, strong laws, and not only that should there be strong laws, but there needs to be implementation and compliance to the laws. There are some good laws that exist to protect forests all over the world, but our governments are not implementing it. However, when companies do take a step in a positive direction, we will push—you know, we will accept it, and we will encourage them to go further. But we do not have the faith that companies that have destroyed our forests, who have made billions of dollars from destroying our forests, are going to actually suddenly become, overnight, sort of good citizens, and to the extent where they will act with the scale of ambition and urgency that the situation calls for.
AMY GOODMAN: Kumi, what do you take back to Durban, South Africa, where you live? The largest climate march happened on Sunday. On Tuesday, this U.N. climate summit that you participated in. And some described it as this kind of self-congratulatory fest that they were concerned would lead to less regulation, because all the countries and the corporations were saying, "See, we’re doing a great job."
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, my one-line description of the climate summit outcome is that we got much more than many of us thought we would get in terms of stated commitments, but we got significantly less than what the world needs us to do. I have no doubt in my mind that the mobilization of people in New York and around the world in such large numbers was a wake-up call both to the U.S. political establishment, as well as to the others, as well as the corporate sector. I found CEOs of companies within the U.N. coming to me and saying, "Congratulations. You guys have now won the argument." Right? "There’s no question about it. You’ve got the momentum." And so on. The important message to individual citizens around the world: We cannot rest on our own laurels now. Four hundred thousand here in New York. We need, globally, not just hundreds of millions; we need—
AMY GOODMAN: Ten seconds.
KUMI NAIDOO: We need billions of people to actually join. And I think we have the basis to build that movement.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to ask you to stay with us after the show to talk about what exactly the road to the solution should be. I want to thank Kumi Naidoo, executive director of Greenpeace International, for being with us. And speaking of our taxi audience, I want to give a shout out to Shaun Randol, who just tweeted, "Cabbing it to work today. Driver tunes in to @democracynow ... I’m doubling his tip."
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Headlines:
•U.S.-Led Bombing Targets ISIS Oil Refineries in Syria; Civilians Killed in Aleppo Strike
U.S.-led airstrikes are continuing in Syria for a third day. The latest bombings reportedly hit oil refineries controlled by the Islamic State in Syria’s east, with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates taking part. In striking the refineries, the United States says it is going after one of the Islamic State’s main sources of funding. Airstrikes also hit the Syrian town of Kobani, where tens of thousands have fled an ISIS assault over the past week. According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an earlier strike in Aleppo killed 70 fighters and eight civilians. The Assad regime appears to have endorsed the U.S.-led bombings, with one minister telling Reuters they are going in the "right direction."
•Obama Urges Global Support for Offensive on "Network of Death"
Speaking to the United Nations General Assembly, President Obama urged support the U.S.-led bombing campaign against what he called "a network of death."
President Obama: "No god condones this terror. No grievance justifies these actions. There can be no reasoning, no negotiation, with this brand of evil. The only language understood by killers like this is the language of force. So the United States of America will work with a broad coalition to dismantle this network of death. In this effort, we do not act alone. Nor do we intend to send U.S. troops to occupy foreign lands. Instead, we will support Iraqis and Syrians fighting to reclaim their communities."
•British, Iran Leaders Meet; U.K. Lawmakers to Vote on Joining Anti-ISIS Strikes
Addressing the United Nations General Assembly, British Prime Minister David Cameron announced the British Parliament will meet Friday to vote on joining the U.S.-led military strikes in Syria and Iraq. Cameron also called on Iran to play a role in confronting the Islamic State.
British Prime Minister David Cameron: "Iran’s leaders could help in defeating the threat from ISIL. They could help secure a more stable, inclusive Iraq and a more stable and inclusive Syria. And if they are prepared to do this, then we should welcome their engagement. ... It is right that Britain should now move to a new phase of action. I am therefore recalling the British Parliament on Friday to secure approval for the United Kingdom to take part in international airstrikes against ISIL in Iraq."
Friday’s parliamentary vote comes one year after British lawmakers rejected Cameron’s bid for a different bombing campaign in Syria — the failed U.S. effort to attack the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. Cameron was speaking after meeting with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, the first such meeting between Iran and Britain since the 1979 Iranian Revolution.
•U.N. Security Council Approves Measure Targeting Flow of Foreign Fighters
The U.N. Security Council has approved a resolution mandating countries to contain militant groups like the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL. The measure calls for the tracking of potential terrorists within borders and the sharing of data with other countries. After introducing the measure in a rare session, President Obama called its adoption "historic."
President Obama: "Preventing these individuals from reaching Syria and then slipping back across our borders is a critical element of our strategy to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL. The historic resolution that we just adopted enshrines our commitment to meet this challenge. It is legally binding. It establishes new obligations that nations must meet."
•Sierra Leone Quarantines One-Third of Population after Searches Find New Cases
Sierra Leone has imposed the quarantine of more than a third of its population in an effort to contain the outbreak of Ebola. A new order cuts off around 1.2 million people on top of the nearly one million others previously sealed off. The move comes after house-to-house searches reportedly found hundreds of new cases and more than 260 dead bodies. Official figures show the Ebola outbreak in West Africa has infected more than 6,000 people and killed around half that number, though the actual toll could be higher.
•No Charges for Ohio Police Officer Who Shot John Crawford; Justice Dept. to Review Case
An Ohio grand jury has declined to indict the white police officer who fatally shot John Crawford. A 22-year-old African American, Crawford was killed inside a Wal-Mart store last month after a caller phoned police to accuse him of brandishing a gun and pointing it at other customers. In fact, Crawford had picked up an unloaded BB air rifle from a shelf. Newly released surveillance footage contradicts the caller’s claim Crawford was pointing the BB gun at other customers. But on Wednesday, a special grand jury decided the shooting was justified. The Justice Department now says it will launch a federal review to determine if Crawford’s civil rights were violated.
•U.S. Reaches Half-Billion-Dollar Settlement with Navajo Nation
The federal government has reached a $554 million settlement with the Navajo Nation. The agreement is the largest for a single Native American tribe over the government’s mismanagement of assets and land.
•FBI: U.S. Mass Shootings Double in 14 Years
New figures show mass shootings in the United States have more than doubled in the past 14 years. According to the FBI, 486 people have been killed in 160 separate incidents. Twenty-four percent of active shooting incidents occurred in schools.
•Snowden, McKibben Among Recipients of "Alternative Nobel" Right Livelihood Awards
In Sweden, the Right Livelihood Awards have been announced for five recipients, including National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden. The head of the Right Livelihood Award Foundation, Ole von Uexküll, said Snowden was honored for exposing illegality by his own government.
Ole von Uexküll: "We decided on five laureates this year, and they all live up to the idea behind the award to offer real, courageous, practical solutions to global challenges. And Snowden is living up to this ideal in the same way that earlier laureates have when it comes to criticizing his own government as this government is breaking the law."
Snowden’s prize will go to toward his legal fund. The other recipients are Alan Rusbridger, editor of The Guardian newspaper; Pakistani human rights activist Asma Jahangir; Basil Fernando of the Asian Human Rights Commission in Hong Kong; and the American environmentalist Bill McKibben, founder of 350.org and a lead organizer behind this week’s People’s Climate March in New York City. Handed out annually, the Right Livelihood Awards are widely known as the "alternative Nobel Prize." The award ceremony will be held in early December.
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Global Warming and Global Warring by Amy Goodman
NEW YORK, N.Y.—Hours after 400,000 people joined in the largest climate march in history, the United States began bombing Syria, starting yet another war. The Pentagon claims that the targets were military installations of the Islamic State, in Syria and Iraq, as well a newly revealed terrorist outfit, the Khorasan Group. President Barack Obama is again leading the way to war, while simultaneously failing to address our rapidly worsening climate. The world is beset with twin crises, inextricably linked: global warming and global warring. Solutions to both exist, but won’t be achieved by bombing.
“In today’s wars, many more civilians are killed than soldiers; the seeds of future conflict are sown, economies are wrecked, civil societies torn asunder, refugees amassed, children scarred.” These words were spoken on Dec. 10, 2009, by that year’s Nobel Peace Prize winner, President Barack Obama. Five years later, his pronouncement reads like a daily headline. The peace group Code Pink is calling on President Obama to return his Nobel medal.
“The world must come together to confront climate change,” Obama said in that same Nobel acceptance speech. “There is little scientific dispute that if we do nothing, we will face more drought, more famine, more mass displacement—all of which will fuel more conflict for decades.” Obama even made the key point that “it is not merely scientists and environmental activists who call for swift and forceful action—it’s military leaders in my own country and others who understand our common security hangs in the balance.”
Indeed, the Pentagon has long considered climate change to be a major threat to the national security of the United States. In its 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review, the Pentagon noted that the many impacts of climate change “will aggravate stressors abroad such as poverty, environmental degradation, political instability, and social tensions—conditions that can enable terrorist activity and other forms of violence.”
So it is fair to ask, why not address the threat of climate change when it is still possible? Asad Rehman, of the international environmental group Friends of the Earth, who was in New York for the climate march, told me, “If we can find the trillions [of dollars] we’re finding for conflict whether there’s been the invasion in Iraq or Afghanistan or now the conflict in Syria, then we can find the kind of money that’s required for the transformation that will deliver clean, renewable energy.”
Rehman clearly opposes massive military spending. He spent years as an anti-war organizer, and sees the deep connection between warring and warming. “Oil has been a curse on the people of the Middle East,” he added. “It has been a harbinger of conflict and violence and of destruction of ancient civilizations in communities and the lives of millions of people.”
Medea Benjamin, a co-founder of Code Pink, echoed the words of Rehman. She participated in the historic climate march, and joined thousands more the next day to “Flood Wall Street,” where 100 people were arrested. Before heading to the White House to protest the bombing of Syria, she told me: “Oil is the basis of U.S. policy in the Middle East. Were it not for Iraq’s oil, the U.S. would have never invaded.”
On Tuesday, more than 100 world leaders, along with industry representatives, participated in a nonbinding U.N. climate summit. It was convened by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in the hopes that it would build momentum for the ongoing formal climate talks, which seek a binding commitment from the nations of the world to drastically cut greenhouse-gas emissions, and to limit the global rise in temperature to 2 degrees Celsius. Many believe a 2-degree rise is the upper limit of increase that the planet—as we know it—can sustain.
While climate talks generate little success or media coverage, President Obama’s attack on the Islamic State and other perceived terrorist threats dominated the U.N. General Assembly and a special session of the Security Council session that Obama chaired. Reflecting on the prospects for progress on the global movement to stop climate change, Asad Rehman said, “Anybody who went on that demonstration could only walk away energized and more committed that the power lies in our hands and not in that building here in New York, in the U.N.”
Before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, U.S. Gen. Anthony Zinni predicted success only with an invading force of 400,000. Donald Rumsfeld went in with less than half, famously quipping, “You go to war with the army you have—not the army you might want.” Well, 400,000 people turned out for the climate march last Sunday ... an army of hope for a sustainable future.
Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column.
Amy Goodman is the host of “Democracy Now!,” a daily international TV/radio news hour airing on more than 1,200 stations in North America. She is the co-author of “The Silenced Majority,” a New York Times best-seller.
© 2014 Amy Goodman
Distributed by King Features Syndicate
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