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The fatal police shooting of a teenage girl in Denver has drawn protests amidst a nationwide push for more police accountability. On the morning of January 26, Denver police shot and killed 17-year-old Jessica Hernandez. They say she and several teenage friends were driving a stolen car that struck and injured an officer. Police Chief Robert White says his officers repeatedly told her to get out of the car before they opened fire. But a passenger says Hernandez lost control of the car only after she was shot and became unconscious. Witnesses say Hernandez was dragged from the car, apparently unconscious. A video captured by a neighbor shows police handcuffed and appeared to search her after she was shot, rolling her on her back and stomach as she lay limp and motionless. The two officers involved in the shooting have been put on administrative leave while the incident is investigated. Last Thursday, activists at the National Conference on LGBT Equality that took place in Denver protested Hernandez’s killing by forcing Mayor Michael Hancock to cancel a planned speech. And on Saturday, an estimated 800 people gathered for Hernandez’s funeral. We are joined by two guests: Mimi Madrid Puga, a community organizer and board member of the Colorado Anti-Violence Program, and Qusair Mohamedbhai, a civil rights lawyer and attorney for the Hernandez family.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re on the road in Denver, Colorado, broadcasting from Denver Open Media. We turn now to a police shooting of a teenage girl here in Denver that’s drawn protests amidst a nationwide push for more police accountability. It was the morning of January 26 when Denver police shot and killed 17-year-old Jessica Hernandez. They say she and several teenage friends were driving a stolen car that struck and injured an officer. Police Chief Robert White says his officers repeatedly told her to get out of the car before they opened fire. But a passenger in the car, who spoke with KUSA in Denver, says Hernandez lost control of the car only after she was shot and became unconscious.
PASSENGER WITNESS: Cops walked up. They were on the side of her, and they shot the window, and they shot her. That’s when she wrecked, and that’s when the cop got hit.
AMY GOODMAN: Denver police do not use in-car dashboard cameras. We invited someone from the police department to join us on the show, but they declined, saying it would be inappropriate for them to comment while the case is under investigation. The shooting of Jessica Hernandez marks at least the fourth time in seven months Denver police have fired at a moving vehicle, despite a policy urging officers to try to move out of the way instead of shooting. Two of those shootings resulted in the drivers’ deaths.
In a statement, Hernandez’s parents said, quote, "We are dismayed that the [Denver Police Department] has already defended the actions of the officers and blamed our daughter for her own death, even while admitting they have very little information. ... [T]his unjustified shooting of our daughter is only the latest sign of an issue that requires federal oversight," they said. In an interview, Jessica Hernandez’s mother also raised concerns about how her daughter was treated by police after they shot her. This is Laura Sonya Rosales Hernandez.
LAURA SONYA ROSALES HERNANDEZ: [translated] I was expecting the paramedics to take my daughter’s body out with caution, but, no, they slammed her body to the floor and dragged her like garbage.
AMY GOODMAN: Witnesses say Jessica Hernandez was dragged from the car, apparently unconscious. A video captured by a neighbor shows police handcuffed and appeared to search her after she was shot, rolling her on her back and stomach as she lay limp and motionless. The two officers involved in the shooting have been put on administrative leave while the incident is investigated.
Last Thursday, activists, angered by Jessica’s death, took over the stage at the National Conference on LGBT Equality that was held here in Denver, forcing Denver Mayor Michael Hancock to cancel his speech there. And on Saturday, an estimated 800 people gathered for the funeral of Jessica Hernandez, or Jessie, as she’s known by her friends.
For more, we’re joined right now by two guests. Mimi Madrid Puga is with us, a community organizer and board member of the Colorado Anti-Violence Program. And Qusair Mohamedbhai, civil rights lawyer, attorney for the family of Jessica Hernandez.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Qusair, let’s begin with you. Explain what you understand has happened. What happened on that morning of January 26th?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: We’re cobbling together the facts still, but what we do know is that Jessica and four other teenagers between the ages of 15 and 17 were in a vehicle, and law enforcement descended on them on a report of suspicious activity. The vehicle was not moving at the time. And what we do know, as well, is that Jessica was killed by three or four bullets that were shot through the driver-side window, with the car either stationary or barely moving forward. The witnesses that we have interviewed have all disputed the police version of the events that said that she was either driving at somebody or that there was even a officer that was struck at the scene.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, explain the scene, like what does—this was an alley, where the car was?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: Yes. So the car was parked in an alley to the right side. And they were teenagers acting like teenagers. And police came from the front and the rear in vehicles. It’s reported that they have might have been unmarked.
AMY GOODMAN: What time was it?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: It was 6:30 in the morning. It was reported that they might have been unmarked vehicles. And as Jessie reportedly put the car in reverse, almost at that exact moment, she was shot and killed, three times from bullets all traveling from left to right.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you know where these bullets came from?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: The family. Fortunately, the Denver Coroner’s Office has reached out to the family, and they’ve informed us of some preliminary forensic and pathology results.
AMY GOODMAN: Did you do a second autopsy?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: There was a second autopsy done.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you’re saying she was shot from the left side. She was the driver. So a police officer was standing right outside her door?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: That’s correct.
AMY GOODMAN: To the side of her.
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: That’s correct.
AMY GOODMAN: And they shot her into her side.
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: That’s correct. All bullets traveled—the bullet that was likely fatal pierced—was almost horizontal, pierced her left lung, went through her heart, through her left ventricle, exited her right atrium, went through her right lung, and ultimately was lodged near her ribs.
AMY GOODMAN: And what happened next, according to what you understand?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: Well, the pathology and forensics will show that there was a fairly substantial abrasion to her nose. And the eyewitness reports say that there was a substantial—her body was mishandled. She was violently pulled out, and there was likely a blunt force trauma to her face as she was taken down to the ground and handcuffed.
AMY GOODMAN: She was shot, she was unconscious, and she was handcuffed?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: She was shot, she was most likely killed, and then she was handcuffed—rather violently.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to an interview that the Denver police chief, Robert White, did with The Denver Post. He offered his version of how Jessie Hernandez was fatally shot by police.
POLICE CHIEF ROBERT WHITE: Shortly after getting the—arriving on the scene—and they had received a call for suspicious auto. The first officer arrive there, ran the tags, and it was a stolen car. A second officer arrived. The officers exited the car in an attempt, several times, to ask the individuals to come out of the car. Obviously, that didn’t occur. And at some point, the original officer that responded to the scene, the vehicle started driving towards him, which pretty much had him between the car and, I think it was, a brick wall and a fence there. And out of fear for his safety, he fired several shots, and the other officer also fired several shots, striking the driver of the car, which was a 17-year-old juvenile. And she was pronounced at the hospital. The officer, the original officer, received a fracture, by the way, a broken fracture—a fracture to his leg as a result of the incident.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Denver Police Chief Robert White. So he’s saying there was an officer in front of the car and, I guess, an officer to the side, that the officer to the front of the car was shooting at her.
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: This is wishful thinking by the Denver Police Department. They have already changed and reformulated their public messaging here. First they said that an officer’s leg was broken at the scene. Then they’ve come out and said that a leg—the officer’s leg was fractured. And now, they’re not even being—they’re not even confirming that an officer was struck, only that an officer was injured. This is a largely cut-and-paste public narrative that the Denver police has had to do four times in the last seven months to justify the killing of people, minorities, unarmed minorities, in our community.
AMY GOODMAN: Mimi Madrid Puga, you’re an organizer with the Colorado Anti-Violence Program. How did you get involved with this?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Mostly getting involved not only from community, but also understanding that Jessie could easily be one of the young people that we work with and could easily be myself and could easily be our community. We definitely feel that survivor support is crucial and necessary to any kind of organizing that we do in community, and we understand that Jessie’s murder leaves many survivors—her family, her siblings. She was the eldest of five that we know. And she was also a pillar in her community, her own community of chosen family. In all these services, in all these places, we’ve seen an influx of young, queer, lesbian, gay, bisexual young people who come to pay their respects and their support. And so, we know that we have to stand in solidarity between all these movements, between identities of race, identities of sexuality, identities of young people, too, because we see that young, queer people of color are not valued in this institution—for example, the police. Our lives are not valued. And we understand that our lives are sacred. Our lives are worth keeping. And Jessie was brutally murdered. And as a community, we stand with her and with her family, and ensuring that her story gets told in a real way, that she is not criminalized by the media, but that people tell the real story of who Jessie was, as an older sister, as a friend, as a lover and as a young person who had so much life left in her.
AMY GOODMAN: Eight hundred people came to the funeral?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Yes, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: The funeral took place, Qusair, at her church?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: Yeah, the church that her family and her had attended their whole lives, the church where she was baptized and where she was recently confirmed.
AMY GOODMAN: The priest very emotional in the service?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: The priest, at points, breaking down and crying over the loss of Jessie.
AMY GOODMAN: Mimi, have you spoken with Jessie’s family?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Yes, we have. As our group, at Branching Seedz of Resistance, a lot of us come from that Mexican family. A lot of us are first-generation people who are born here. A lot of us share the same identities and some of the same experiences as Jessie. Ten years ago, I was going through the same rites of passage of being on the streets and being a young person and taking cars and being with my friends.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean, "taking cars"?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Either taking cars or being in situations that are—can be deemed as criminal, but are just rites of passages for lot of young people. And that’s one of the things that we’ve been talking about, is where is our culture, where is our art, and where are these institutions here protecting us to provide young people with opportunities and good rites of passages.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn to Jessie’s cousin. After Jessie was killed, her cousin Jose Castaneda protested outside the District Attorney’s Office and confronted Deputy District Attorney Doug Jackson.
JOSE CASTANEDA: I feel like there was a better solution to this. There is other tactics that they can use. There is other weapons that they could have used. It’s five teenagers. There is no reason for you to open fire on any teenager no matter what. I can understand if somebody got out the car and pulled out a gun on him or something, but there was no incident whatsoever. He got hit by a car. My cousin got shot dead. Nobody is going to take that pain away! They can fix his leg. They can do whatever. But nobody is going to bring her back.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Jose Castaneda protesting outside the District Attorney’s Office. Can you comment on this, Mimi?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Absolutely. The young people in Denver and the young people across the nation are hurt, are in pain and need healing. This is a traumatizing event for all the young people that Jessie shared her life with—her cousins, her family, even her school. These are the very same people that we’re supposed to be trusting in and who is supposed to protect us. And when we see this happen, there’s a level of pain and healing that needs to happen in community.
AMY GOODMAN: How does these protests, that have been growing—I mean, 800 people at the funeral, they did not know Jessie, all of them, but came out in solidarity—fit into the Black Lives Matter movement?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Absolutely. I think that there’s a sense of solidarity. And there’s a saying that says, "An attack on community is an attack on me." And so I think that a lot of people were able to see Jessie’s case, are able to see Jessie’s family, with that empathy that the priest talked about at her service. Empathy is what we need today. And so, moving forward, solidarity is the number one thing on the spot. We need to have solidarity between race, between gender, between orientation, between ages, and have an intergenerational movement of healing.
AMY GOODMAN: Qusair Mohamedbhai, can you talk about the police shooting at a moving vehicle here in Denver, what the rules are?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: The policies in Denver are largely antiquated. At places on the East Coast, more sophisticated organizations completely forbid the shooting of—at moving vehicles, because it’s commonsense that shooting at a vehicle is not going to stop it from moving. Denver police has a largely cowboy, Hollywood mentality where they think that shooting at a car will suddenly cause it to blow up and stop. It’s just—it’s not true. And so, Denver’s policies and their inability to correct them, despite four deaths in the last seven months, has largely contributed to Jessie’s death.
AMY GOODMAN: Again, how many times in the last few months?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: Four deaths in the last seven months.
AMY GOODMAN: What are you calling for now?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: We’re calling for the Denver District Attorney’s Office to step aside voluntarily and allow an outside agency, such as the FBI, to investigate these officers criminally. We’re asking the Denver Police Department to no longer investigate and police their own. These are broken systems. And it also just—it’s commonsense that brothers who are going to be investigating brothers, the outcome is predictable. And we know, based upon the Denver district attorney’s failure to prosecute any police officer for shootings since 1992, we know the result. We know that the Denver district attorney is going to exonerate these police officers.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Mimi, the issues of Jessie’s LGBT identity. The shooting comes at a time of increased violence against LGBT people. At least five transgender women of color have been murdered so far this year.
MIMI MADRID PUGA: Absolutely. It’s a pattern that we’re seeing that—again, I said queer, transgender folks see six times more violence than straight white people. And so, this is definitely a pattern that’s happening across the nation and across the globe. Queer folks are being attacked and murdered and killed, and our lives are not being valued as what they’re for.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you think police perceived Jessie?
MIMI MADRID PUGA: I’m not entirely sure, but Jessie was definitely masculine-presenting. She had short hair. And I think that whether we are queer, whether we’re passing as women or we’re passing as men, it doesn’t matter anymore. We’re being shot regardless of what we look like, especially if we look like men, men of color. Even if we identify as women, we’re being shot at at the rate as men. And so, we’re asking people to text, to get more information with a Presente.org petition, "Justice for Jessie," and the number is 225568, to get more information and sign a petition.
AMY GOODMAN: The police have been put, Qusair, on administrative leave?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: Yes, they have.
AMY GOODMAN: Is there a grand jury been impaneled?
QUSAIR MOHAMEDBHAI: Based on the history of the Denver District Attorney’s Office, it is unlikely.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both for being with us. We’ll certainly continue to follow this case. Qusair Mohamedbhai, civil rights lawyer, attorney for the family of Jessica Hernandez, and Mimi Madrid Puga, a community organizer, board member of the Colorado Anti-Violence Program.
Some 5,000 people attend the North Carolina funeral of the three Muslim students murdered in Chapel Hill on Thursday as the FBI announced it has opened a probe into the killings. Today, we hear from one of the victims, Yusor Abu-Salha, in her own words. Last year, Abu-Salha went into a StoryCorps booth to record an interview with her third grade teacher, Mussarut Jabeen of the Al-Iman School in Raleigh. "Growing up in America has been such a blessing. And although in some ways I do stand out, such as the hijab I wear on my head, the head covering, there are still so many ways that I feel so embedded in the fabric that is, you know, our culture,” Abu-Salha said. The other two victims, Deah Barakat and Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, also attended Al-Iman.
Image Credit: storycorps.org
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re broadcasting from Denver, Colorado, from Denver Open Media. The FBI has opened an inquiry into this week’s killings of three Muslim students in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. In a statement, the agency said it had launched a, quote, "parallel preliminary inquiry to determine whether or not any federal laws were violated." On Thursday, over 5,000 people gathered for the funerals of 23-year-old Deah Barakat; his wife, 21-year-old Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha; and her sister, 19-year-old Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha. The suspected gunman, Craig Stephen Hicks, who described himself as a "gun-toting atheist," has been charged with three counts of first-degree murder. Chapel Hill police say the shooting stemmed from a dispute over a parking space, but relatives of the victims say it was a hate crime. Yusor and Razan’s father, Mohammad Abu-Salha, spoke at the funeral.
MOHAMMAD ABU-SALHA: There’s no doubt, as I thank Allah’s [inaudible] for giving us this honor of raising three children, this has hate crime written all over it! And I’m not going to sit down and bend over that, because we need to know things the way they are. We have peace inside. We are not seeking any revenge. Our children are much more valuable than any revenge.
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammad Abu-Salha speaking at Thursday’s funeral for his two daughters and son-in-law. Azhar Aziz of the Islamic Society of North America also spoke at the funeral.
AZHAR AZIZ: We are concerned that the rising anti-Muslim rhetoric in our society may have encouraged some to commit violence against American Muslims, so we urge the law enforcement to investigate this case as a possible hate crime.
AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday’s Democracy Now!, we spoke to Amira Ata about the murder of her childhood friend, of Yusor Abu-Salha. Well, today, we’re going to hear Yusor in her own words. Last May, she did an interview with her third grade teacher, Mussarut Jabeen, as part of the StoryCorps oral history project. All three of this week’s victims attended Jabeen’s school. This week, StoryCorps produced a short piece base on that interview.
LIYNA ANWAR: I’m Liyna Anwar, one of the producers here at Storycorps. Today we’ll hear the voice of one of the students killed in Tuesday’s shooting in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: My name is Yusor Abu-Salha. I am 20 years old. And today I will be interviewing my former teacher and principal.
LIYNA ANWAR: That teacher is Mussarut Jabeen, who taught Yusor Abu-Salha in third grade. In fact, she knew all of the victims—Yusor, her husband, Deah Barakat, and her sister, Razan—since they were kids. Jabeen brought Yusor to StoryCorps last May. You’re going to hear part of that conversation and a follow-up interview recorded just yesterday with Jabeen.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: She was the first one to come to my mind. She was one student I would like everybody to know about.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: Growing up in America has been such a blessing. And although, in some ways, I do stand out—
MUSSARUT JABEEN: Yes.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: —such as, you know, the hijab—
MUSSARUT JABEEN: Yes.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: —the head covering, there are still so many ways that I feel so embedded in the fabric that is our culture. And here, we’re all one.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: I remember Yusor as a little girl when she was in third grade. She had this sense of giving that really makes her different from other children.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: I still remember in third grade when we asked for something, you used to say, "Don’t put your hand like this." You would have your hand facing downwards as if you’re taking something from someone.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: Oh, my god.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: Yeah.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: You still remember?
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: And then you’d flip your hand over, and you’d open your hand upward as, you know, a giving gesture. You know, be giving, open, compassionate.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: Deah, Yusor and Razan, these kids, their face was so radiant, they would just bring light to the room. And they treat me like their mother.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: I see you nowadays, and you’re always asking, "How are you?" You know, "Where are you now in life?" And now I’m at NC State University.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: And got married to one of my other student.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: Yeah, that was pretty interesting.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: And I was so happy, you know, when I saw you guys together. And you will be together for the rest of your life, inshallah. I just remember Deah when he was growing up. He was getting taller. And because I’m a short person, he would stand behind me and put his hand over my head. And I just told him, "Deah, you can never outgrow my heart."
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: Before our time is up, Sister Jabeen, I’d just like to thank you. It’s been an honor.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: No, I want to thank you, Yusor, and the honor is mine. Thank you so much.
YUSOR ABU-SALHA: Thank you. Of course.
MUSSARUT JABEEN: I would like people to know and remember her as a practicing Muslim, as a daughter and, above all, as a good human being. You know, when we write our comments on report cards, we say they exceeded our expectations. She exceeded our expectations.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Mussarut Jabeen, teacher and principal at Al-Iman School in Raleigh, North Carolina, where all three victims in Tuesday’s shooting had been students. Yusor first came to Storycorps in May with her teacher. This interview was recorded in partnership with WUNC and will be archived at the Library of Congress. Special thanks to Dave Isay and StoryCorps.
This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. When we come back, we turn to a police shooting in Denver, Colorado. The victim? A 17-year-old teenage girl. Stay with us.
Broadcasting from Denver, Colorado, Amy Goodman visits the First Unitarian Society Church to meet Arturo Hernández García, an undocumented immigrant and father of two. Since October, García has sought sanctuary at the church as he fights his deportation. We also hear from his nine-year-old daughter Andrea, a United States citizen. Her status means he may be allowed to stay in the country under President Obama’s new deferred action program starting in May — if he is not deported before then. We also hear from Beth Chronister, assistant minister at the First Unitarian Society Church in Denver, and activist Jennifer Piper of the Metro Denver Sanctuary Coalition, who helped García enter sanctuary.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We are broadcasting from Denver, Colorado, from Denver Open Media. When I flew in to Denver yesterday, on Thursday, I went directly to the First Unitarian Society Church to meet Arturo Hernández García. He’s an undocumented immigrant and father of two girls. Since October, he has sought sanctuary at the church as he fights his deportation. I also met his nine-year-old daughter Andrea, who’s a United States citizen. Her status means he may be allowed to stay in the country under President Obama’s new deferred action program starting in May—if he’s not deported before then. Andrea was with her father when I went to interview him last night.
AMY GOODMAN: We’ve just arrived at the Unitarian Church in Denver, and we’re coming to see Arturo Hernández García, who has taken refuge here. He’s taken sanctuary here, the first one to do this in Denver since the 1980s.
Hi, I’m Amy Goodman.
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Good to meet you.
AMY GOODMAN: Good to meet you.
Can you tell me how you ended up living in this church?
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: It is hard, because I have a long time in here. I have 115 days already.
AMY GOODMAN: Why did you come here?
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Because I am risk to deportation. October 21st, I have my final order for deportation. And the reason I’m coming here is because I want to fight my case.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you tell me what happened? How did you end up going into deportation proceedings? You had a tile business?
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Yeah, I’m working on constructions, usually big constructions like apartments, 100, 200, 300 apartments, and hundreds of people working in there. And I had trouble with one person, and I have that discussion with him. And they called the police, and the police, they arrest me. And after that, immigration put—the hall, immigration hall.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what happened after that?
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: I’m be in detention center for immigration for 15 days. And I pay a bail bond. I am a good person. I am working hard here by 16 years in Colorado. I never be in trouble. I never be arrested. I never stay in jail before, here or in Mexico.
AMY GOODMAN: You had your two children here in the United States?
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: I have one daughter that is 15 years old. She was born in Mexico. And she’s in DACA. It’s the deferred action for students. She’s now get a—permits job for her. And I have Andrea, is nine years old. She’s a citizen.
AMY GOODMAN: So what has it been like for you? You’ve been here for many months now, for November, December—for four months.
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Yeah, three months and a half already. It’s hard, hard for me and for my family, too. I want to come back in my life, normal life, and come back to work and still in home with my daughters and my wife.
AMY GOODMAN: So we’re here in the sanctuary with Arturo Hernández García, and his nine-year-old daughter Andrea has just joined us. Hi, Andrea.
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Hi.
AMY GOODMAN: Did you come here—do you come here after school?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: What grade are you in?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Fourth.
AMY GOODMAN: Fourth grade. How do you feel about your father living in the church?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Sad. I want him to go back home with us.
AMY GOODMAN: What are you hoping for your father?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: For him to go home and to give him a stay, for ICE to give him a stay.
AMY GOODMAN: For ICE to give him a stay. Did you also go to Washington, D.C., with your mother and your sister?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: What did you do there?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: We were at the—
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: With the officers, ICE officers.
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: —with the ICE officers and—
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Homeland Security.
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: —Homeland Security, and we were telling them that we wanted our dad to go home with us.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you think it will happen?
ANDREA HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re standing in the sanctuary, and behind you is a banner that says "All souls are sacred and worthy. There is unity that makes us one." And we’re standing in front of the organ.
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: We come here, United States, to work and the future for the family. We are not criminal. It’s not true what the people, the government say on TV. So, I come here to, yeah, like I say, just to work and a better future for my kids. And I’m contributing for the stay. We work and pay taxes. And so, everything I do, I do for my family, so...
AMY GOODMAN: So, I want to thank you for taking this time to talk to us, Arturo, and your daughter Andrea. We’re here at the Unitarian Church in Denver, where Arturo Hernández García has taken sanctuary now for three-and-a-half months. I believe this is the first time someone has taken sanctuary in a church in Denver since the 1980s, during the sanctuary movement, people fleeing political persecution and violence in Latin America. Thank you.
ARTURO HERNÁNDEZ GARCÍA: Thank you. Thank you for coming, and thank you for interesting in my case. I appreciate it.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you tell me your name?
BETH CHRONISTER: My name is Beth Chronister, and I work here as the assistant minister at First Unitarian Society.
AMY GOODMAN: And what has it been like to give sanctuary to Arturo, first time sanctuary has been given in Denver since the 1980s?
BETH CHRONISTER: It’s really been a experience that has expanded the congregation. It has been an experience that has brought people together in a way to do justice. This congregation has a long history of being committed to justice, but I think, in walking with Arturo and his family through this experience, it’s been a—doing justice through companionship, in a way that we have learned so much.
AMY GOODMAN: What was the decision you went through to do this?
BETH CHRONISTER: So the process was actually about a six-month-long process. And there wasn’t instant agreement in the congregation, but it was a long process of dialogue, speaking from the pulpit, of doing small group work, and educating ourselves about immigration to figure out what was the way that we felt, as a community, that we could best affect the situation, which all ended in a big congregational vote, which was overwhelmingly positive.
AMY GOODMAN: How many?
BETH CHRONISTER: Oh, my goodness, I think was about a 90 percent yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And how many people in the congregation?
BETH CHRONISTER: Oh, how many people in the congregation? We have a congregation of about 370.
AMY GOODMAN: Can’t ICE just walk in and arrest him?
BETH CHRONISTER: So, the history with sanctuary and respecting sanctuary in churches is that they don’t, that they—it would just look so bad, that they probably wouldn’t. I think that there’s the same sort of respect for schools and hospitals that they have for churches.
AMY GOODMAN: And how long do you think this will go on for?
BETH CHRONISTER: Oh, my goodness. We are hoping that Arturo and Ana and his children are able to get—to all be reunited as soon as possible, hopefully in this next week. But we’ve been hoping for this next week for quite some time. But we’re in it as a community of commitment around him.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, thanks so much.
BETH CHRONISTER: Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Beth Chronister. She is assistant minister at the First Unitarian Church here in Denver, Colorado, where Arturo García Hernández has taken sanctuary as he seeks to stay in the United States with his wife and his two daughters. I was with him last night here in Denver. Special thanks to Denis Moynihan for helping to film our interview.
Well, we’re joined right now by Jennifer Piper. She helped Arturo Hernández García enter sanctuary. She coordinates the Metro Denver Sanctuary Coalition, is an interfaith organizer for American Friends Service Committee.
Welcome to Democracy Now! Very quickly, explain the circumstances under which Arturo ended up at this church.
JENNIFER PIPER: Yeah, the circumstances are actually really common and represent a lot of people in the community, because of the strong link between police and sheriffs and immigration in our country. So, he was laying tile at a job site. Another—
AMY GOODMAN: He runs a tile-laying company with his brother here in Denver.
JENNIFER PIPER: Yeah, and they employ six people. And so, they were—it was a huge job site, and they were laying tile, and a guy wanted to hang windows. And that gentleman didn’t like that they refused him entry into the work area, because—
AMY GOODMAN: Because they didn’t want him to walk on the tile that they just laid.
JENNIFER PIPER: Yeah, it was not safe for him. It would ruin the tile. It would waste money and time. And they had it roped off. And the gentleman was white, and he started yelling racial slurs at Arturo and his crew. And they said, "Well, you need to talk to the supervisor. If the supervisor says you can come in the area, we’ll let you." The supervisor, of course, said he couldn’t. He said he wasn’t going to take orders from any Mexicans. He went right up into Arturo’s face, and Arturo gently pushed him away, because he thought he was going to hit Arturo. The guy went off and left, called the police, accused Arturo of threatening him. Everyone on the scene, including the supervisors, general contractors, testified in court that Arturo did not instigate the argument and that he didn’t threaten this guy in any way. And he was—Arturo was found not guilty by a jury of 12 people.
And despite that, immigration continued deportation proceedings against him. That was almost five years ago now. And so, he has exhausted every legal avenue open to him in fighting his case and been denied discretion over and over again. So, now things have changed a little bit in the legal argument in his case because of the deferred action program that President Obama announced in November.
AMY GOODMAN: Why would he become eligible under it?
JENNIFER PIPER: So, he has a U.S. citizen daughter. He’s been here more than 10 years—well, he’s been here more than the five years that’s required by the program. He has no criminal record. He’s paid taxes. He meets all the requirements. The only issue is he has a deportation order that was issued last year, and that means that we’ll have to ask the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to grant him discretion and allow him to qualify. But otherwise, he completely qualifies.
AMY GOODMAN: Quite something, this church has become a sanctuary church for a new wave of sanctuary from the ’80s.
JENNIFER PIPER: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk, in this last minute that we have, how this story of Arturo fits into the national picture and what’s happening around immigration rights?
JENNIFER PIPER: Yeah, well, we really see our immigrants organizing and finding ways to further resist a system that is widespread throughout our country. We spend $18 billion a year on immigration enforcement, which is more than all the other federal law enforcement agencies combined. And as long as we keep spending that amount of money on immigration enforcement, we’ll see families like Arturo’s being separated. We’ll see people like Arturo being deported, because we have this immense amount of resources that we’re putting into deportation. And we have to ask: Is that really the priority of our country? Because that’s what the spending priority is right now. And as long as we see that and we see continued links between police and immigration, we’ll continue to see key members of our communities deported. And so, what we also see are allied communities who realize they know people who are undocumented, who are in deportation, stepping up to accompany and experience a little bit of the risk that people like Arturo are living every day.
AMY GOODMAN: And this sanctuary movement, is it growing?
JENNIFER PIPER: The amount of churches who have committed to sanctuary is growing. The number of people actually taking sanctuary isn’t. And some of that is because of this new program and some new opportunities for people that attempt to stay in the country legally. But even if they implement that fully, it will only cover five million of the 10 million or so people who are here.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Jennifer Piper, we will continue to follow Arturo’s case. You know, it’s interesting, Jessie Hernandez and Arturo Hernández García, they’re not related—
JENNIFER PIPER: No.
AMY GOODMAN: —but their stories have intersected with their daughters.
JENNIFER PIPER: Yeah, Arturo’s oldest daughter, Mariana, actually went to school with Jessie, and his family has been very impacted by the violence of the Denver Police Department and the way that there’s no accountability. And I think that the lack of accountability with the Denver Police Department is the same lack of accountability we see in the immigration enforcement system.
AMY GOODMAN: Jennifer Piper is interfaith organizer for American Friends Service Committee here in Denver, coordinating the Metro Denver Sanctuary Coalition. She helped Arturo Hernández García enter sanctuary at the First Unitarian Church in Denver.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, journalist David Sirota. Stay with us.
We look at a Wall Street scandal that has generated little attention but impacts millions of American public workers. In recent years, cities and states have been increasingly investing worker pensions in risky hedge funds, private equity and other so-called "alternative investments." Many of the investments are being done in secret while politically connected Wall Streets firms — including Blackstone, the Carlyle Group and Elliott Management — earn millions in investment fees from taxpayers. Denver-based journalist David Sirota recently revealed Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who once served as President Obama’s chief of staff, received more than $600,000 in campaign contributions from executives at investment firms that manage Chicago pension funds. Sirota also revealed the head of a New Jersey board that determines how the state invests its $80 billion pension fund was in direct contact with top political and campaign fundraising aides for New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie during his re-election bid. Meanwhile, some states, including Illinois, Kentucky and Rhode Island, have faced criticism for blocking the release of information about how their pension funds are being handled. We speak with David Sirota, senior writer at the International Business Times, who authored the 2013 report, "The Plot Against Pensions," published by the Institute for America’s Future.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting from Denver, Colorado, from our friends here at Denver Open Media, Open Media Foundation, as we turn now to a Wall Street scandal that’s generated little attention but impacts millions of American public workers.
In recent years, cities and states have been increasingly investing worker pensions in risky hedge funds, private equity and other so-called alternative investments. Many of the investments are being done in secret, while politically connected Wall Streets firms, including Blackstone, the Carlyle Group and Elliott Management, earn millions in investment fees from taxpayers.
Well, the Denver-based journalist David Sirota has been closely following this story for years. Last year he revealed Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who once served as President Obama’s chief of staff, received more than $600,000 in campaign contributions from executives at investment firms that manage Chicago pension funds. David Sirota also revealed the head of a New Jersey board that determines how the state invests its $80 billion pension fund was in direct contact with top political and campaign fundraising aides for New Jersey Governor Chris Christie during his re-election bid. Meanwhile, some states, including Illinois, Kentucky and Rhode Island, have faced criticism for blocking the release of information about how their pension funds are being handled.
Well, David Sirota joins me here in Denver, senior writer at the International Business Times. In 2013, he authored the report, "The Plot Against Pensions," that was published by the Institute for America’s Future.
It’s great to have you with us, David, for me to be in your town. Explain what this is all about.
DAVID SIROTA: Basically, states and cities are putting more and more of their pension funds in high-fee, high-risk Wall Street investments. And the question is, that’s been asked is, now, why? We’re talking about a third of a $3 trillion public pension system being handed over, effectively, to Wall Street firms. High-fee, that is the key point, big fees. These firms earn huge fees off these pension funds. And the question is, why?
Well, there’s two—really, two answers. One, public pension systems are trying to big-bet their way out of their shortfalls. Politicians have not properly funded pension funds. They have not made their actuarially required payments each year, and so there are these shortfalls—effectively, money that is owed to workers that hasn’t been paid. And so, rather than have a debate over raising taxes, a lot of politicians have said, "Let’s give a lot of our money to high-risk Wall Street firms," under the premise that that will big-bet their way out of the pension funds, big-bet their way out of the budget shortfalls.
The problem is, is that the returns for the pension funds have been lower than the stock market, which costs basically nothing to invest in. So then the question is, well, why are you investing in high-fee investments that aren’t generating, better than the market, returns that we can get with no fees? And I think one thing you can look at is campaign contributions. You have Wall Street firms, executives at Wall Street firms, making campaign contributions. And one of the big goodies they can get back is pension investments, which kind of go under the radar. Nobody really—very few people really watch where these investments are going. The people who do watch are the Wall Street firms.
AMY GOODMAN: What does Governor Chris Christie have to do with this in New Jersey?
DAVID SIROTA: Well, his pension system is one of the biggest pension systems in the world, $80 billion. That is a huge, huge pot of money for Wall Street. And Chris Christie’s officials have moved an enormous amount of money into hedge funds and private equity. New Jersey is now one of the biggest investors in hedge funds in the world. In New Jersey, what’s happened is fees have tripled. New Jersey is now paying more than $400 million a year in fees just to manage its pension system. New Jersey has, similarly, delivered below-median returns—that is, below-median returns for similarly sized states. So, it’s paying a lot more in fees and getting less back than the typical pension fund, which of course is a double whammy for taxpayers.
AMY GOODMAN: When Governor Christie was asked about your, David Sirota’s, ongoing investigation into the New Jersey pension system, he lashed out at Sirota.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE: The article that spurred all this conversation has been written by a guy who is a completely discredited journalist, who’s been fired for being inaccurate and inflammatory before. So, you know, right now, anybody who can, you know, pop up on a website calls himself a journalist. David Sirota is not a journalist. He’s a hack.
AMY GOODMAN: That is Governor Christie. You’re a hack.
DAVID SIROTA: Yeah, right. I mean, this has been the answer from the Christie administration, to simply lash out in a personal attack. But this is not a personal issue. This is about pensions for hundreds of thousands of workers.
AMY GOODMAN: And the head of the New Jersey board that determines the state’s investments in the $80 billion pension fund?
DAVID SIROTA: He ended up resigning. He ended up resigning. His name is Bob Grady. He ended up resigning after there were questions about the proximity of campaign contributions going into the Republican Governors Association, Governor Christie, the New Jersey Republican Party, proximity to pension deals going out.
AMY GOODMAN: Blackstone Group—there’s a major protest against Blackstone in New York that has to do with housing.
DAVID SIROTA: Yeah, well, and in New Jersey, again. New Jersey moved $2 billion of pension money into Blackstone at the very same time that Blackstone waived a number of rules to allow Bob Grady, the head of the New Jersey pension system, to allow his firm to invest in Blackstone at the same time.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you think needs to happen?
DAVID SIROTA: Well, clearly, there needs to be more transparency. As you mentioned in the beginning, if you’re a retiree, if you’re a taxpayer, and you call up your state and you say, "I’d like to see the terms of the deals about these pension investments that my taxpayer dollars are going to," your state will likely say, "I’m sorry, we can’t tell you what the terms of the deals are, what the fee structures are, what the risks analysis is." So there needs to be more transparency. And there needs to be a debate, a healthy debate, over whether this money is being properly invested, whether this is a prudent investment in high-fee Wall Street firms.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you say something quickly about Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel?
DAVID SIROTA: Sure. I mean, in Chicago, he has said that the city doesn’t have enough money to pay its pension obligations. Meanwhile, more of that money has moved into so-called alternative investments, paying higher fees. And let’s remember, there is an SEC rule on the books that says you cannot accept campaign contributions, if you’re running a pension system, from the people who are managing your pension system. And Chicago lawmakers have asked for an SEC investigation in Chicago about his campaign contributors.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, David Sirota, there’s so much more to talk about, and we’ll get you back on again. David Sirota, senior writer at the International Business Times. We’ll link to his report, "The Plot Against Pensions."
And that does it for our broadcast. A very happy birthday to Brendan Allen. And I want to thank our crew here at Denver Open Media, the Open Media Foundation: Tony Shawcross, Ann Theis, John Aden, Gavin Dahl, Ivy Pharr, Susannah McLeod, Dana Thibault, Courtney Steele, Niki Smith-Reynolds and David Stewart. Special thanks to Denis Moynihan.
I’ll be speaking at the Carbondale Public Library tonight at 7:00. Hope to see people there.
Headlines:
Thousands Attend Funeral of Muslim Students in NC; FBI Opens Probe
Thousands gathered in North Carolina on Thursday for the funeral of three Muslim students shot dead by a gunman who had posted anti-religious messages online. Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha and her sister, Yusor Abu-Salha, and Yusor’s husband, Deah Barakat, were killed execution-style in what family members call a hate crime. Suspected gunman Craig Stephen Hicks has been charged with three counts of first-degree murder. Hicks had frequently posted anti-religious comments on his Facebook page. Police say an early probe suggests the killings resulted from a parking dispute, a claim the victims’ family and friends reject. The FBI is also investigating. A crowd of more than 5,000 packed a soccer field at North Carolina State for Thursday’s service, paying tribute to the victims and demanding justice for their murders.
8 Ukrainian Soldiers Killed Before New Truce Takes Effect
Eight Ukrainian soldiers have been killed and several dozen wounded in continued fighting in eastern Ukraine. The violence comes just after Ukraine and Russia agreed to a new ceasefire at a summit in Belarus. But the truce will not take effect until Sunday. New shelling has been reported today in the rebel strongholds of Luhansk and Donetsk. In Washington, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said despite the ceasefire, the United States has not ruled out new sanctions on Russia or sending military aid to Ukraine.
Jen Psaki: "An agreement is a piece of paper, unless it’s implemented. And so, what we’ve seen to date is that Russia and Russian-backed separatists have not taken the steps to implement. We will see what they do from here. We have had long ongoing conversations with our European partners about additional steps that could be taken. And if it’s not implemented or there is additional aggression, that’s something we will continue to discuss."
The European Union has also threatened new sanctions on Russia if the deal is broken.
U.N. Secretary-General: Yemen "Collapsing Before Our Eyes"
The United Nations has warned Yemen is on the brink of civil war and risks complete political collapse. Yemen has been in limbo since Houthi rebels forced the resignation of the Yemeni cabinet and then seized power. Addressing the Security Council, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Yemen faces a host of additional issues, including an al-Qaeda insurgency and a major humanitarian crisis.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon: "Let me be clear. Yemen is collapsing before our eyes. We cannot stand by and watch. The country is facing multiple challenges. A dangerous political crisis continues in Sana’a. There are more widespread and lethal attacks by al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, with increasing hostilities between AQAP and the Houthis in various provinces south of Sana’a, such as Damar and al-Bayda. There are increasing secessionist tendencies in the South, and an acute humanitarian crisis."
The United States, Britain and France have closed their embassies in the capital Sana’a over security concerns. On Thursday, al-Qaeda-linked fighters seized an army base in southern Yemen and held soldiers captive.
19 Killed, Dozens Wounded in Suicide Attack on Pakistani Mosque
At least 19 people have been killed and more than 60 wounded in an attack on a Shia mosque in the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar. At least four suicide bombers wearing the uniforms of state forces reportedly hit the mosque during prayers.
Federal Judge Orders Enforcement of Marriage Equality in Alabama
A federal judge has ordered the enforcement of her earlier decision striking down Alabama’s ban on same-sex marriage. The ruling went into effect this week, but the state’s Supreme Court justice, Roy Moore, sowed confusion after ordering judges and officials to ignore it. The new ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Callie Granade was directed to just one judge in Mobile County but is seen as a signal to judiciaries across the state. Judges in just one-third of Alabama’s 67 counties have issued marriage licenses to LGBT couples so far. With the new federal ruling, Mobile County resident Marc Stewart said he intends to marry his partner.
Marc Stewart: "We go to church every Sunday. We work like regular folks, and we go and pay our taxes. We go home and watch TV like everybody else. And this is just our town, and we just want to be recognized in this town as being us. I’ve been with him 18 years, and, yeah, he’s going to be stuck with me now."
Republican Governor Repeals Anti-Discrimination Protections for LGBT Public Workers
Republican Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas has repealed a measure that protects state employees from workplace discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation. Brownback’s executive order undoes a move by his predecessor that widened safeguards for LGBT public employees.
Pentagon Approves Hormone Therapy for Gender Transition of Chelsea Manning
The Pentagon has approved hormone therapy treatment for the gender transition of U.S. Army whistleblower Chelsea Manning, previously known as Bradley. Manning announced she identified as a woman and planned to seek hormone replacement treatment after her 2013 conviction for passing cables to WikiLeaks. She sued the Pentagon last year for denying gender-transition medical care and failing to follow other protocols for treating gender dysphoria. In a memo this month, a military official confirmed hormone therapy will be added to Manning’s treatment plan.
Senate Overwhelmingly Confirms Ashton Carter as Defense Secretary
The Senate has confirmed Ashton Carter as the new secretary of defense. President Obama tapped Carter after forcing the ouster of Chuck Hagel late last year. Carter has a long history at the Pentagon, where he once served as the chief arms buyer. In 2006, he backed a pre-emptive strike against North Korea if the country continued with a planned missile test. Carter has recently voiced support for arming Ukraine and opposing the transfer of prisoners from Guantánamo Bay. The Senate approved his bid with an overwhelming 93-to-5 vote.
Harvard Students Launch Sit-in for Fossil Fuel Divestment
Students at Harvard University are staging a sit-in to demand their school join the growing list of institutions divesting from fossil fuels. The campus-led divestment movement calls for purging investment portfolios of assets tied to companies that drive and profit from global warming. Harvard’s endowment is the largest of any school in the world, at $36.4 billion. The students launched their sit-in inside a building housing the offices of school administrators, including President Drew Fast. Hundreds of actions are expected around the world today and Saturday as part of Global Divestment Day.
FBI Director Urges Police Forces to Confront Unconscious Racism
FBI Director James Comey has called on police nationwide to confront what he said is unconscious racial bias in the wake of a spate of killings of unarmed African Americans. In an unprecedented speech for an FBI chief, Comey said the nation’s "endemic" racism must be addressed.
James Comey: "Much research points to the widespread existence of unconscious bias. Many people in our white-majority culture have unconscious racial biases and react differently to a white face than a black face. … Police officers on patrol in our nation’s cities often work in environments where a hugely disproportionate percentage of street crime is committed by young men of color. Something happens to people of goodwill working in that environment. After years of police work, officers often can’t help but be influenced by the cynicism they feel. A mental shortcut becomes almost irresistible, and maybe even rational by some lights. … We need to come to grips with the fact that this behavior complicates the relationship between police and the communities they serve."
Comey is known to keep a copy of the FBI’s wiretap order targeting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as a reminder of the agency’s past misdeeds.
NYT Media Columnist David Carr Dead at 58
The media columnist David Carr of The New York Times has died. Carr collapsed at the Times’ offices Thursday night and was pronounced dead shortly after. Hours before, he had moderated a panel discussion on the documentary "Citizenfour" along with director Laura Poitras, Glenn Greenwald, and the film’s lead subject, Edward Snowden. Carr overcame a major addition to crack cocaine in the late 1980s and went on to become a celebrated writer on media and culture. He was 58 years old.
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