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"Cataclysmic Carousel of Greed": Oscar-Winning Actress Emma Thompson on Oil Drilling in ArcticJust back from a trip to the Arctic aboard the Greenpeace ship the Arctic Sunrise, celebrated British actress Emma Thompson joins us to talk about visiting the Canadian town of Clyde River, which has been leading efforts against the oil industry blasting the Arctic in its search for oil and gas. Two years ago, Thompson joined another Greenpeace expedition to protest drilling in the Arctic and to research the impact climate change has already had on the region.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to the Academy Award-winning actress Emma Thompson.
MARGARET SCHLEGEL: [played by Emma Thompson] I forgave you. My sister has a lover—you drive her from the house. Why can you not be honest for once in your life and say to yourself, "What Helen has done, I have done"?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yes, that was Emma Thompson in Howards End, in a role in which she won an Academy Award. And this is Emma Thompson in the film Wit, when she played an English professor who was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.
VIVIAN BEARING: [played by Emma Thompson] I have cancer, insidious cancer, with pernicious side effects. No, the treatment has pernicious side effects. I have Stage IV metastatic ovarian cancer. There is no Stage V. Oh, and I have to be very tough. It appears to be a matter, as the saying goes, of life and death. I know all about life and death. I am, after all, a professor of 17th century poetry specializing in the Holy Sonnets of John Donne, which explore mortality in greater depth than any other body of work in the English language. And I know for a fact that I am tough—a demanding professor, uncompromising.
AMY GOODMAN: While Emma Thompson is one of the most celebrated British actresses, she is also a longtime activist. She has just returned from a trip to the Arctic aboard the Greenpeace ship the Arctic Sunrise.
EMMA THOMPSON: I suppose the Inuit here are the front line, but, actually, we are here to defend them and ourselves, because if the Arctic melts, then we’re all for it, as we know. We know if we don’t keep the temperature of the Earth at 1.5 degrees, we’re in big, big trouble.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Earlier this month, Greenpeace Arctic Sunrise sailed to the town of Clyde River in the Canadian province of Nunavut. The town has been leading efforts against the oil industry blasting the Arctic in its search for oil and gas. Two years ago, Thompson joined another Greenpeace expedition to protest drilling in the Arctic and to research the impact climate change has already been having on the region.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Emma Thompson joins us now from Toronto, Canada.
Emma Thompson, welcome to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you for the first time on Democracy Now! Why were you just in the Arctic?
EMMA THOMPSON: Thanks, Amy. It’s a great honor to be on Democracy Now! Thank you for inviting me. Well, I was invited, actually, by the Inuit community of Clyde River in Nunavut, with Greenpeace, because they know I’ve been working with them, and to come and examine the human landscape and what the effects of climate change were having on culture there and life there, but also to help to stand shoulder to shoulder in their battle against seismic blasting, which is a disastrous course of action, not only for the community, but for the global community.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what exactly is seismic blasting, and what’s its purpose?
EMMA THOMPSON: Well, I’m glad you ask, because I knew about it, as it were—I knew it was bad, but I didn’t know quite how bad it was, until the most extraordinary marine biologist, called Lindy Weilgart, who specializes in the effect of seismic blasting upon marine mammals, gave a lecture on it. And it involves the pushing out of extremely high-pressured shots of air. It’s noise. It’s sound. And the sound has to travel over thousands of kilometers, hit whatever it can find, and come back to the ship, in order to—it’s prospecting, really, to see where they can drill for oil and gas.
Now, marine mammals basically see through their ears, so the effect of seismic blasting, because the noise it makes is equivalent to half a [kilogram] of dynamite going off—it’s like an underground volcano. It’s 260 decibels, and it happens every 10 seconds, for months on end, without cease. And so, you can imagine the effect upon these large mammals, who use their ears, really, to see, to communicate, to organize, to—it’s how they live. So, it’s a disastrous thing.
And, of course, the ultimate irony is that the region is melting because of oil and gas being overused. So, the oil and gas companies, instead of saying, "We have an eco-disaster happening here. Let’s stop," are clapping their hands, piling in, prospecting for more of the stuff that melted the place in the first instance. So, if you see what I mean, it’s a kind of cataclysmic carousel of greed and destruction.
AMY GOODMAN: Emma Thompson, why did you choose to go with Greenpeace on the Arctic Sunrise?
EMMA THOMPSON: Well, a great friend of mine, Joanna Kerr, is someone I’ve traveled with a lot on activist journeys, and she became the executive director of Greenpeace Canada and said, "Em, you know how we keep trying to make the connection between climate change and human rights, and it’s very—it’s very difficult. Lots of charities and lots of NGOs work in silos. And, of course, now, it can no longer carry on like that. We have to make the connections between everything—between conflict, between women’s rights, human rights, between climate change. Everything is connected." And, in a sense, I suppose, Greenpeace seems to me to be the organization that’s making those connections most successfully at the minute.
And also, they have this—they had created a relationship with a community that they had previously wounded badly in the past. The campaign against the seal hunt, commercial seal hunting, had devastating impacts on the life of Inuit up in the North. And there are no rude words in Inuktitut, but "Greenpeace" is one of them. That’s the only one they have, they tell us. And Joanna, again, issued a formal apology. I mean, it was a sort of spiritual act, really. She issued it, not knowing whether it would reach anyone or anyone would hear it. And an extraordinary man, who I was lucky enough to meet and spend time with, an activist, Inuit activist, called Jerry Natanine, read this apology, and he had been personally deeply affected by this campaign. His parents had suffered greatly, and he hated Greenpeace, hated Greenpeace. And he saw this apology and decided that he was in the process of struggling with this seismic battle threat, and he thought, "These people may be able to help." So he went to the elders, and he said, "I would like to reach out." And he did. They had a conversation. He rang. They had a conversation and started to work on the campaign that I was lucky enough to be a part of recently. And I think that one of the most striking things about this journey was Jerry saying to us all, "This apology and my reaching out and this coming together has healed something inside me, has healed the anger." So we were very—we were intimately connected. As you know, if you wound someone, there is always an intimate connection. And whether it continues to be destructive depends on how you deal with the wound after it has been made.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, I want to turn to some of the residents of Clyde River. This Greenpeace video features the town’s former Mayor Jerry Natanine and his daughter Clara.
EMMA THOMPSON: Yeah.
JERRY NATANINE: They want to blast the ocean with seismic cannons, looking for oil. It’s a destruction machine. The way it could affect the sea mammals, I can hardly put it into words how much effect it would have on our lives. Our existence and where we are is based on the animals that go there.
CLARA NATANINE: We don’t have any farms. You can’t grow anything outside. The best place to get healthy food for me is under the sea.
JERRY NATANINE: We’re going to the Supreme Court. As Inuit, we have the right to our territory.
INUIT MAN: [translated] Our population is small, and I believe it is useful for other people on Earth to hear about this.
JERRY NATANINE: We need all the help we can get to fight these companies. It builds up my spirit for us to be heard and supported. It’s phenomenal.
CLARA NATANINE: I grew up in the Arctic. There’s just something about it that makes you want to be there.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was Jerry Natanine and his daughter Clara. I wanted to ask you: Have you gotten any sense of whether the new government in Canada is more receptive to these issues than the prior government?
EMMA THOMPSON: Well, they ought to be. I mean, Prime Minister Trudeau has just signed recently, as you know, the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. So, that’s a very good sign, having—this country, of course, having held back on that for some years. That’s excellent. He was also present at the Paris Agreement. He and Obama issued an excellent statement on the Arctic. So, it seems to me that this is a confluence of events. Now we’ve got a spotlight on the Arctic, and Trudeau now has a fantastic opportunity to put his words into action, because this case is—will set a precedent for the rights of indigenous peoples.
And it is not just about food security; it’s about food sovereignty. What’s happening in the Arctic with this seismic blasting case is—what is being threatened is their sovereignty, their nationhood, not just the food that they eat, not just the climate. It’s their actual sovereignty. They were not properly consulted. That’s the issue. And that’s the issue upon which this case rests. So, to me, looking at it as an outsider and as someone passionately interested, Trudeau is now in a position to do what successive governments for many, many decades have refused to do: act on the climate change agreement that he made, act on the Declaration of Rights for Indigenous Peoples, and set a precedent that has been long, long, long overdue.
AMY GOODMAN: Emma Thompson, you went to the Arctic before, in 2014. Now you went with your teenage daughter. Have you seen changes just in these last few years?
EMMA THOMPSON: When Gaia came with me to the Arctic, when we went to Spitsbergen de Svalbard, where we were looking at the landscape itself, the graveyard of glaciers that sits up there, surrounded by dismayed climatologists and scientists who have been watching them disappear for the last 20 years, and it was a very different kind of journey. I’m coming to a different part of the Arctic. I’m seeing the same effects on the landscape. I mean, we were looking at these extraordinary peaks and troughs and castellations. The mountains, the fjords are extraordinary. But they’re bare. I mean, this is—this is granite that hasn’t seen the light of day for 15,000 years. And our companions, our Inuit companions, were saying, you know, "When we were little and used to come out on the ice here, the ice would be overhanging."So, I was seeing in the landscape the same signs of the destruction of the Arctic and dismayed again by the fact that, as we know, the poles—the ice on the poles is what helps to keep—it’s absolutely essential if we want to keep the temperature of our world from rising to dangerous levels. So, there is no question about the fact that governments around the world absolutely have to put a stop to any notion of drilling for oil and gas in the Arctic. I mean, that’s absolutely out of the question. We need to make those treaties right now. We need to protect it right now.... Read More →
Vijay Prashad: Hillary Clinton Shows Dangerous Tendency to Go to War No Matter the ConsequencesIn our extended interview with scholar Vijay Prashad, he discusses the U.S. presidential election and notes that while President Obama was reticent, then-Secretary of State "Hillary Clinton led the charge against Libya. This shows, to my mind, a profound dangerous tendency to go into wars overseas, damn the consequences. If you’re looking at this from outside the United States, there’s a real reason to be terrified."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: And what do the U.S. elections mean for what’s taking place now?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, look, I mean, it’s—you can see from your news report at the beginning that, in domestic terms, there is a great difference between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump has not only been absorbed by the white nationalists, but he himself appears to be a white nationalist. But seen from the rest of the world, the difference between the two is minimal. You know, here you have Donald Trump, who is, in many ways, erratic. God knows what he’ll do once he becomes president. He will lead a party—
AMY GOODMAN: Do you think God knows what he’ll do, once he—
VIJAY PRASHAD: Yeah, I think God knows what he’ll do. You know, I mean, I think that if the Republican Party was at such a place where Ted Cruz, who said that he would like to bomb Syria, to see the desert essentially be irradiated—if the Republican Party can see somebody like that as normal, as rational, then, you know, God help us if the Republicans are in charge of things.But let’s take the case of Hillary Clinton. You know, here’s somebody who actually pushed Obama to go into the Libyan operation. You know, Obama was reticent to enter the operation in Libya. The French were very eager. And Hillary Clinton led the charge against Libya. This shows, to my mind, a profound dangerous tendency to go into wars overseas, you know, damn the consequences. And I think, therefore, if you’re looking at this from outside the United States, there’s a real reason to be terrified that whoever becomes president—as Medea Benjamin put it to me in an interview, whoever wins the president, there will be a hawk in the White House.... Read More →
Vijay Prashad: Turkey's Offensive Against ISIS & Press Crackdown is Really Just War on KurdsAs the United States backs a Turkish military incursion into Syria targeting ISIS-held areas along the border, Turkey says it’s also concerned about Syrian Kurdish militias at the border who are backed by the United States. We look at the conflict, how it relates to the recent thwarted coup attempt, and the government’s subsequent arrests of journalists on terrorism charges with an acclaimed scholar who has followed the region closely for years: Vijay Prashad. He is a professor of international studies at Trinity College and columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline. His new book is "The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: An explosion at a police station in Turkey near the border with Syria has reportedly killed at least 11 people and wounded 70. State-run media is reporting that Kurdish militants were responsible for the attack, but there’s been no claim of responsibility. This comes as the Turkish military has sent additional tanks into northern Syria, intensifying its ground offensive in the ongoing conflict.
The U.S. military is backing Turkey’s incursion, which began earlier this week with an aerial bombing campaign. Turkey says the offensive is against ISIS-held areas along the border. But Turkey says it’s also concerned about Syrian Kurdish militias at the border. Those militias are backed by the United States. On Wednesday, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan announced Turkish-backed Syrian rebels claimed—reclaimed the Syrian town of Jarabulus from the Islamic State.
PRESIDENT RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: [translated] As of this moment, Free Syrian Army and residents of Jarabulus have taken back Jarabulus. They have seized the state buildings and official institution buildings in the town. According to the information we have received, Daesh had to leave Jarabulus.
AMY GOODMAN: Turkey’s offensive is dubbed "Euphrates Shield," and it’s the country’s first major military operation since a failed coup shook Turkey in July. On Wednesday, the Turkish president, Erdogan, met with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, who said the United States supports Turkey’s efforts to control its borders.
VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: We believe very strongly that the Turkish border must be controlled by Turkey, that there should be no occupation of that border by any group whatsoever, other than a Syria that must be whole and united, but not carved in little pieces.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says videos posted to a social media website Thursday depict carnage in the Bab al-Nairab neighborhood of Aleppo, where two barrel bombs were reportedly dropped, killing at least five people. The group also reported additional strikes across Aleppo and its suburbs, saying the dead were mostly women and children.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The strikes came as the United Nations announced Russia has agreed to a 48-hour humanitarian truce in Aleppo to permit aid deliveries, pending security guarantees are met by parties on the ground. The United Nations has been pushing for a weekly 48-hour hiatus in fighting in Aleppo to assist the city’s approximately 2 million people who have been suffering as Syria’s five-year-old conflict continues to take a massive humanitarian toll.
A separate United Nations team has concluded the Assad government and ISISmilitants carried out repeated chemical weapons attacks in Syria in 2014 and 2015. The report accuses Assad of twice using chlorine gas. It also accuses ISIS of using mustard gas.
AMY GOODMAN: All of this comes as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, are meeting today in Geneva to discuss details of a cooperation agreement on fighting Islamic State in Syria.
For more, we’re joined by the acclaimed scholar who has followed the region closely for years, Vijay Prashad. He is a professor of international studies at Trinity College, columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline. His new book is called The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution. Professor Prashad’s previous books include Arab Spring, Libyan Winter and The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South.
Vijay Prashad, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you in studio.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Thanks a lot. Great to be here.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s start with what’s happening right now in Turkey, where Vice President Joe Biden just was.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, the situation in Turkey is very dire. As you know, on July 15, there was the failed coup. But the matters in Turkey have unraveled long before this failed coup. You know, the crackdown on reporters has been going on for at least a year and a half, if not longer. The internal politics of Turkey has been in disarray.
One of the interesting things about the government of Mr. Erdogan is that, previously, he had started a peace process with the Kurdish Workers’ Party, the PKK, which the United States and Turkey sees as a terrorist outfit. They had started a protracted peace process called the Imrali process. But this war in Syria has essentially unraveled that peace process, and the Turkish military has gone back on the full offensive against the Kurds in southeastern Turkey, and, as well, as you saw this week, the Turkish army has crossed the border into Syria to stop the advance of Syrian Kurds from creating what the Syrian Kurds call Rojava, which would be a statelet of Syrian Kurds which is right on the Turkish border.
You know, the reason that operation is called Euphrates Shield is that the Euphrates runs in that region from north to south. And what the Turkish government would like to see is for the Syrian Democratic Forces, which has a large Kurdish component, to move back east of the Euphrates—in other words, withdraw from Jarabulus, withdraw from Manbij, which they had taken quite—in a celebrated victory, and therefore prevent the creation of this Kurdish statelet called Rojava. On the surface, they say it’s about ISIS, but really this is about the protracted war that the Turkish government has begun again against the Kurds.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But interestingly, you mentioned the failed coup. The New York Times, for instance, is reporting today that Erdogan wanted to go into Syria earlier, but the military was resisting, and it was only as a result of his being able to purge and remove so many top military officers that now he’s been able to do—to effect this incursion.
VIJAY PRASHAD: This is likely the case, you know, but it’s also been the situation that this is not the first Turkish entry into Syria. The Turks had entered previously; the Turkish military had. You know, there’s a celebrated shrine, a memorial to one of the founders of the Ottoman Empire, and the Turkish military had entered to secure that monument earlier. Turks had also, of course, kept their border open and had allowed supplies and people to cross the border into various proxy groups, whether it’s Turkish-backed proxy groups, Saudi groups, Qatari groups—and, in fact, the Islamic State. You know, they have used for years the Turkish border. And I think that the sheer instability of the war in Syria has returned, you know, the conflict into Turkey—what the CIA, after the successful coup in Iran in 1953, called blowback. You know, this is, in a sense, blowback against Turkey. So, they have previously entered Syria with the military. They have, of course, supported their proxies. But now, I think, with the gains made by the Kurds, this is as much a political entry as anything. You know, the principal reason, I would argue, that they’ve entered Jarabulus is to stop the creation of Rojava.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Vijay Prashad, and we’re going to continue this conversation after break. Vijay Prashad is professor of international studies at Trinity College, columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline. His new book is calledThe Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution. We’ll talk about, well, Turkey, Syria, Libya, and also the U.S. elections, before we speak with Emma Thompson. The famed actress is now back in Canada after going to the Arctic. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: "Denizlerin Dalgasiyim," "I am the Waves of the Sea," by Selda Bagcan. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. We’re speaking with Vijay Prashad, professor of international studies at Trinity College and author of a new book. It’s called The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution.
I want to turn to a novelist who was just arrested. I want to talk about press freedom in Turkey. The Committee to Protect Journalists reports that Turkish author and columnist Asli Erdogan—no relation to the president—has written about her treatment in prison since her arrest earlier this month, after the government closed down the newspaper where she worked. She now faces a pending trial on terrorism charges and says she’s been denied medication or sufficient water for five days and is diabetic. She’s one of many journalists and writers who have been arrested on charges of terrorism in Turkey. About 10,000 people have been arrested since the coup, at least that we know, or the attempted coup, though Erdogan, of course, wrested power back. Professor Vijay Prashad, what about Asli?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, look, you know, she is one of the tens of thousands of people who have been arrested under so-called suspicion that she was doing propaganda for the Kurdish Workers’ Party, the PKK. You know, here’s a celebrated novelist, a journalist for a newspaper whose entire staff pretty much, the editorial staff, has been arrested. Newspapers have been facing a great challenge inside Turkey, and broadcasters. If anybody has questioned the fact that the Turkish government, you know, has been allowing fighters to cross the border, they have been arrested. And this has been happening for the last several years. You know, that’s why I say the failed coup of July 15th has just provided the government with the opportunity to go very deep into its list of those whom it sees as dissenters, and pick them up.
But they’ve been going after reporters for years now. Anybody who challenges their narrative of the war in Syria, they consider a threat, and they accuse them of being linked to the PKK. You know, this is one of the simplest ways of delegitimizing somebody, is to say that they are a propagandist for the PKK. And that’s precisely what they’ve said to her. They’ve also held her in solitary confinement. And she has asked to go back into the general population. You know, that’s a—it’s a humanitarian thing, on the surface of it. And also, you know, this is somebody with medical problems, and they’ve denied use of medication and a proper diet. But she’s only one. You know, as you noted, there are thousands of journalists who have been picked up. And sadly, a number of them are Kurdish journalists, independent journalists from the southwestern region of Turkey, who have been picked up.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And you mention the Kurdish Workers’ Party. Clearly, Turkey is a far more developed country than most of the other Middle East countries and, along with Egypt, probably has the largest working class, per se. Has there been any ties between the Kurdish Workers’ Party and ongoing workers’ movements in Turkey among the rest of the population?
VIJAY PRASHAD: So, the Kurdish Workers’ Party starts, you know, as a principally Kurdish nationalist force, separatist force. But Turkey is an interesting country, because, you know, the largest Kurdish population in a city is not in the southeast, but is in Istanbul. So, you know, about 10 years ago or so, the Kurdish Workers’ Party began to move from the position of secessionism to the position of more rights inside Turkey. And there have been a series of attempts to unite with the Turkish left, various small leftist parties, to create an umbrella party that would both fight for rights of all kinds of people—gays and lesbians, women, workers and Kurds—inside Turkey. And the most recent, you know, party of this kind was the HDP, which had in both elections in 2015—there were two parliamentary elections—did enough—you know, did well enough to block Mr. Erdogan’s attempt to create a presidential form of government. And in a sense, this domestic pressure from the HDP has also upturned the applecart, as far as Mr. Erdogan’s domestic agenda is concerned.
AMY GOODMAN: You know, Joe Biden was just there, the vice president. Turkey, Erdogan has been demanding the extradition of Fethullah Gülen, who is in the Poconos in Pennsylvania. Biden wrote a piece in a Turkish paper, and Foreign Policyhas said that Turkey has admitted that they have not given evidence that this man was behind the attempted coup. Explain, overall, the significance, for people who have never heard of him. It’s not just about the PKK in Turkey.
VIJAY PRASHAD: No, it’s not. The PKK provides, I think, the opportunity for the Turkish government to go after a large number of journalists, because many of these journalists that they’ve picked up are people of the left. The purges in the military, in the judiciary, in those sectors, they’ve blamed on people with sympathies to the Gülen movement or been members of the Gülen movement.
Now, when Mr. Erdogan came to power in the early 2000s, one of the great fears of this kind of Islamist movement was that they would suffer a coup by the military, that the military, which was largely republican, would go and overthrow them. So, from the very beginning, the AKP party, the party of Mr. Erdogan, has been very careful not to antagonize the military. And through the early years, Mr. Gülen’s movement and Erdogan both collaborated in stuffing their people into the military and into the judiciary. In a sense, this is now a family fight, that the very people that they stuffed into the military and into the judiciary have, of course, now turned on Mr. Erdogan. So he is now purging these people from positions of some authority. So it’s not untrue that the Gülenists are inside the military and inside the judiciary, but they were put there essentially to facilitate the Islamization of these institutions.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the Gülen movement, in one of the bizarre examples of what’s happening in education in the United States, runs the largest charter school network in the United States. They have charter schools across the country, especially in Texas. Is there any indication—and they’re bringing in Turkish educators to come into the United States to work in these schools. Do you have a—have you studied that at all?
VIJAY PRASHAD: No, I haven’t looked at that, but I’ve read about it. And the interesting feature, of course, is that this charter school movement or this push towards having faith-based schools in the United States is so closely linked to the agenda not only in Turkey, but in Pakistan, in various other places. And, you know, you see the downside of this: the promotion of a kind of theocratic mindset, the promotion of, you know, a lack of appreciation of the diversity of populations, of minorities, of science, you know, things like that. So, of course, the United States—I’m glad you raised this, because the United States is not somehow outside this process. You know, the United States is very much in this process, not only by promoting this overseas, but, of course, by promoting it from Texas to New York. It’s not only Texas, Juan. We like to think of Texas as a sort of, you know, bastion of the American Taliban, but this American Talibanization has been happening everywhere.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to move from Turkey to Saudi Arabia. While Joe Biden went to Turkey, Secretary of State John Kerry went to Saudi Arabia. Talk about Saudi Arabia and what’s happening today and the U.S. role in Saudi Arabia.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, this is actually, I think, the most important meeting. And it’s important that Mr. Kerry went to Saudi Arabia before meeting Lavrov in Geneva. And the reason I say this is that, you know, the Russians, the Iranians and the Americans have now come to the understanding that the process in Syria cannot start with the demand that Mr. Assad has to go. And why I say this is that Turkey has in the last couple of weeks come to the same position. So, the current prime minister of Turkey has quite clearly said that they no longer require Mr. Assad to leave as a precondition for the peace process, but he can stay, as the prime minister said, for a transitional period.
The only power in the region, the so-called subjugating powers of the region, that has not accepted this view is Saudi Arabia, and, to some extent, its Gulf Arab allies. You know, Saudi Arabia is fighting an extraordinarily brutal war in Yemen. It is obstinate in that war. It’s made no gains, despite the fact it’s been bombing Yemen for over a year. And, of course, the United States government has continued to resupply Saudi Arabia through this period. So, Mr. Kerry’s—
AMY GOODMAN: Engaged in the largest weapons sale in U.S. history with Saudi Arabia.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Precisely, the largest weapons sale, which Mr. Obama justified on economic grounds, which I thought was the most vulgar thing. In his statement, he said—or his proxy said, his spokesperson said, that this is the largest weapons sale, which benefits most of the states in the United States, because they will have bits and pieces of manufacturing.But the point I just want to make is that for Mr. Kerry to be in Saudi Arabia is important because one of the features that they need to be pushing is that Saudi Arabia needs to now adopt the view that there needs to be a long transitional process in Syria. They cannot demand the Assad—Mr. Assad leave as a precondition. Everybody else has accepted this except Saudi Arabia.... Read More →
Regime Change in Libya Mirrors Iraq: Both Efforts Led to Failed States & Destabilized Region
As we speak with scholar Vijay Prashad about how the United States carried out regime change in Libya and left behind a failed state, he notes: "The story in Libya is not dissimilar to the story in Iraq." Both are politically divided societies in which the United States deposed long-entrenched leaders, Muammar Gaddafi in Libya and Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and left behind failed states. Prashad adds that "in both instances, when the strongman was captured ... they said, 'We are ready to negotiate,' and the United States essentially was not interested in negotiating." He says the outcome in Libya contributed to the destabilization of Mali, Tunisia and much of northern Africa.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to ask you to turn to another country in the Middle East: Libya. Clearly, the U.S.-backed move into Libya, the regime change, the execution of Gaddafi has left, in essence, a failed state there. And I’m wondering if you could talk about what’s happened there and also the impact on all of North Africa as a result of the situation in Libya right now.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, you know, the story in Libya is not dissimilar to the story in Iraq with Saddam Hussein or with Syria, which we’ve just been talking about. You know, the problem is, these are all divided societies, politically divided; to some extent, of course, the ethnic and question of tribe should play a role, but they are politically divided societies. To assume somehow that in each of these societies there’s one bad guy who everybody hates is the most simplistic understanding of the Middle East. And the United States, you know, through NATO, conducted a regime change operation inside Libya, just as they did in Iraq.
In both instances, when the strongman was captured—when Saddam was captured, when Gaddafi was captured—what they said to their captors is very revealing. They said, "We are ready to negotiate." And the United States essentially was not interested in negotiating. You’ll remember, when Gaddafi was essentially lynched on the streets of Sirte, Hillary Clinton heard the news and laughed and said, "We came, we saw, we killed." You know, we conquered. This kind of attitude to countries like Libya to Syria to Iraq means you underestimate the—whatever support these people have, you underestimate the divided nature of these societies. And the regime change operation in Libya not only has continued with the destabilization of Libya, but it’s destabilized Mali. It has threatened Tunisia. It has, of course, created problems in much of northern Africa.
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Yemen & Palestine: Vijay Prashad on the Two "Ruthless" Bombing Campaigns
The epilogue of Vijay Prashad’s new book, "The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution," examines the undercovered conflicts in Yemen and Palestine, and the role of Saudi Arabia. "The poorest Arab country is being destroyed by the richest Arab country," Prashad says. "The very people that are out on the streets demanding that Israel stop bombing Gaza need to be out on the streets demanding that Saudi Arabia stop this murderous war against Yemen."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: You have an epilogue in your book, "Yemen and Palestine."
VIJAY PRASHAD: Yeah, so, if you consider that there have been two situations where the bombing has been ruthless—in Palestine, of course, there is an occupation, and the occupation has been on, you know, for decades. But in the last 15 years, Israel has, in a punctuated fashion, bombed Gaza. And it’s bombed Gaza, been resupplied by the West, received diplomatic backing by the West, has not able to, you know, receive, I think, the criticism it deserves from the so-called international community.
Yemen, since March of 2015, has been ruthlessly bombed. The poorest Arab country is being destroyed by the richest Arab country. And nobody has been able to properly criticize the Saudis, because they have been essentially backed by the United States, rearmed by them, etc.
And the reason I put them together is that there is a international sensibility to support the Palestinian cause. Every time there’s a bombing in Gaza, there are demonstrations. There is heartfelt, I think, condemnation. But with this bombing in Yemen, there is virtual silence. You know, the very people that are out on the streets demanding that Israel stop bombing Gaza need to be out on the streets demanding that Saudi Arabia stop this murderous war against Yemen.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I’d like to ask you: How do you see the failure of the Arab Spring even to consolidate any kind of progressive left movement in any of the countries we’ve been talking about? Why has it been so difficult?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, Juan, firstly, the question of an Arab Spring is a misnomer, because this was really a spring in some Arab countries. You know, it’s interesting that most of the countries that were Arab nationalist regimes, you know, relatively secular regimes, experienced the depth of the Arab Spring, not the monarchies. You know, there was no real Arab Spring in Jordan, no real Arab Spring in Morocco, no real Arab Spring in Saudi Arabia, and in Bahrain, which is one of the smallest monarchies, it was crushed. So, this Arab Spring was largely the spring of the exhaustion of Arab nationalism.
And in that sense, we need to understand that this was less an Arab Spring and more the opening of an Arab civil war. You know, this civil war has been going on since the 1950s between Arab nationalist governments and the monarchies. And the weakness of the Arab nationalist governments, their own weakness, their own use of brutal means against the people, their own economic collapse, had weakened them to such a point that when the uprisings began, the monarchies took advantage of it, and they entered to—in a sense, I would say, to destroy the capacity of ordinary people to build their own society. So, it’s less an Arab Spring, more an Arab civil war, that the monarchies seem to have won.
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Vijay Prashad on India's Crackdown in Kashmir: "If This is Not an Occupation, What Else is It?"
In Kashmir, another protester was killed and as many as 50 people wounded when Indian security forces opened fire and threw tear gas at crowds of protesters on Wednesday. Residents say the confrontation came after Indian troops descended on a neighborhood, beating people and destroying a tent that was to host a meeting about Kashmir’s independence. About 70 people have died in Kashmir since anti-India protests erupted on July 8, after Indian security forces killed a prominent Kashmiri independence leader. On Wednesday, the Indian home minister traveled to Kashmir for a two-day visit aimed at defusing the protests. Among those who have been killed is a 30-year-old professor who was beaten to death in Indian army custody. Many others have reported being beaten by troops in their own homes. We speak with Vijay Prashad, whose recent piece on Kashmir is titled "Deadly Violence Erupts in One of the World’s Most Dangerous Hotspots."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: And very briefly, though I want to make sure we touch on it, you wrote recently about Kashmir, saying, "Deadly Violence Erupts in One of the World’s Most Dangerous Hotspots," Vijay Prashad.
VIJAY PRASHAD: You know, Amy, let’s—if we were going to be political scientists, let’s ask, "What’s the ratio of security force to population, you know, until when we call something an occupation?" In Kashmir, for every civilian—for every seven civilians, there is a security force—you know, there’s an army officer or an army personnel. That’s seven to one. Seven civilians, one army person. You know, if this is not an occupation, what else is it? I mean, the Indian ruling elite needs to come to terms with the fact that you cannot have any politics when you have such an enormous military presence inside Kashmir. And, you know, there is no point talking about the details of this, Amy, until this is on the table and seriously discussed. Everything else follows.
AMY GOODMAN: And for what people should understand who aren’t following Kashmir at all?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, you know, Kashmir is also a divided society. There’s the Kashmir Valley, where the deepest resentment against the Indian government is experienced, where the main demonstrations have been happening. But there’s also the area of Jammu, which is a complicated area where there’s much less, you know, political resentment against the Indian government. So, you know, Kashmir itself is a divided—Jammu and Kashmir is a divided state. There is a divided politics there. The Indian government needs to have a proper full dialogue with the various parties there towards an understanding of what the future should be. You know, should the future be some kind of condominium created between India and Pakistan over Kashmir? Should the future be that there are more rights for people? Should the future be the removal of the Indian army, you know, and this enormous presence? This needs to be a political process. There is no easy formula.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Vijay Prashad, I want to thank you for being with us, professor of international studies at Trinity College, columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline. His new book, The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, the famed actress Emma Thompson has just come back from a visit to the Arctic, where she’s been before. Why? Stay with us.
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Actress Emma Thompson: Donald Trump is a White Nationalist Like Brexit Politician Nigel Farage
On Wednesday, British politician Nigel Farage joined Donald Trump at a campaign rally in Mississippi. Farage was one of the leaders of Britain’s campaign to leave the European Union, known as "Brexit." Trump has praised Brexit, saying the British people had "taken back their country." We speak with Academy Award-winning actress Emma Thompson about Brexit and Donald Trump.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Emma, I wanted—I wanted you to weigh in on U.S. politics, because one of your countrymen just came here. You may not know this, because you were in the Arctic. But—
EMMA THOMPSON: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Donald Trump, you know, has called climate change a hoax. Well, on Wednesday, British politician Nigel Farage joined Trump at a campaign rally in Mississippi. He’s one of the leaders, of course, of Britain’s campaign to leave the European Union, known as "Brexit." I’m telling everyone else, not you, Emma—you know. Trump has praised Brexit, saying the British people had, quote, "taken back their country." Well, Farage didn’t endorse Trump exactly on Wednesday, but he did slam Hillary Clinton. This is what he said.
NIGEL FARAGE: If I was an American citizen, I wouldn’t vote for Hillary Clinton if you paid me. ... You can go out. You can beat the pollsters. You can beat the commentators. You can beat Washington. And you’ll do it by doing what we did for Brexit in Britain.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Nigel Farage, who was the leader of the Brexit movement.
EMMA THOMPSON: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Emma Thompson, now that you’ve heard what he had to say, your comments of his foray into U.S. election politics?
EMMA THOMPSON: Well, there are no words, really. Nigel Farage is a—you know, I mean, he’s a nationalist. He’s a white nationalist. And that’s what Donald Trump is. And so, it’s very—it’s very distressing to hear—
AMY GOODMAN: And what do you mean by "white nationalist"?
EMMA THOMPSON: —to hear him at all, ever.
AMY GOODMAN: When you say "white nationalist," what do you mean?
EMMA THOMPSON: I mean, I feel that, in some ways, the less said about Donald Trump, the better. But I do see that it is a terrifying situation. And actually, Mr. Prashad, who I was listening to earlier, was so wonderful on the subject, because he said, from the outside looking in, one of the things that, actually, I—I mean, obviously, if I were an American citizen, I’d be voting for Clinton. And one of the reasons for that is that she understands the reality of climate change. It is extraordinary that any person with anything really between their two ears could deny climate change at this point. I mean, that is an act of such extraordinary denial in the face of 98 percent of the world’s scientists coming out and saying, "Actually, you know what? It is." Even the IPCC, which is normally quite a sort of gentle commentator on it, says we’re in really big trouble now, and we really have to act. So, if he does get into power, he’s going to have an awful lot to deal with on that front. But it is terrifying from every point of view. I did agree with Mr. Prashad, though. I agreed with the fact that whichever—
AMY GOODMAN: Emma Thompson, we’re going to have to leave it there. That does it for our show. Academy Award-winning actress and longtime activist.
... Read More →Turkish Military Sends Additional Tanks into Northern Syria
The Turkish military has sent additional tanks into northern Syria. The U.S. military is backing Turkey’s ground offensive, which began earlier this week. Turkish officials say there are now at least 20 Turkish tanks inside Syria and that more could be deployed in the coming days. The U.S.-backed Turkish offensive is aimed at taking control of ISIS-held towns along the border. On Wednesday, Turkish tanks and U.S. air support helped the Free Syrian Army oust ISIS from Jarabulus. Turkey also seeks to force Kurdish militias to retreat from the border. These militias are backed by the United States. Vice President Joe Biden was in Ankara on Wednesday.TOPICS:
Turkey
Syria
Islamic State
Turkey: 11 Killed in Attack on Police Station
This comes as Turkish state media is reporting an explosion at a police station in Turkey near the border with Syria has killed at least 11 people and wounded 70. There has been no claim of responsibility, but the Turkish prime minister has blamed the attack on the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, known as the PKK. Fighting has escalated between Turkish forces and the PKK since a ceasefire collapsed over a year ago. Earlier this year, the United Nations accused Turkish forces of carrying out human rights violations against civilians in the majority Kurdish southeast. In one instance, the U.N. says as many as 100 people burned to death while attempting to take shelter during a Turkish military offensive in the city of Cizre. The U.N. also says there have been reports of Turkish snipers intentionally shooting at civilians, including children.TOPICS:
Turkey
Report: Barrel Bombs Kill 4 Civilians in Aleppo
Secretary of State John Kerry is in Geneva today, where he’s meeting with the Russian foreign minister about a possible cooperation agreement in the ongoing fight against ISIS in Syria. This comes as the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says at least four civilians have died in multiple barrel bomb attacks in Aleppo. Amnesty International says the Assad government frequently drops barrel bombs in civilian neighborhoods. We’ll speak with Vijay Prashad about Turkey, Syria and the U.S. election after headlines.TOPICS:
Syria
Italy: Death Toll from Earthquake Surpasses 250
In central Italy, the death toll from Wednesday’s 6.2-magnitude earthquake continues to rise. At least 250 people have now been confirmed dead, as rescue crews continue to search through the rubble for additional bodies.TOPICS:
Italy
Trump Continues Backing Away from Mass Deportation Plan
In news from the campaign trail, Donald Trump is continuing to flip-flop on his immigration policy, sparking controversy among both his allies and opponents. Trump has made the mass deportation of 11 million undocumented immigrants one of the cornerstone proposals of his campaign. But now, with his newest campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, he appears to be backing away from the mass deportation plan, although he still says he’s opposed to amnesty and any path toward legalization. This is Trump speaking to CNN’s Anderson Cooper.Donald Trump: "I don’t think it’s a softening. I think its—"
Anderson Cooper: "But 11 million people are no longer going to be deported."
Donald Trump: "Look, I’ve had people say it’s a hardening, actually."
Anderson Cooper: "But 11 million who have not committed a crime—"
Donald Trump: "No, no, we’re then going to see—"
Anderson Cooper: "—there’s going to be a path to legalization, is that right?"
Donald Trump: "Look, look, you know it’s a process, you can’t take 11 at one time and just say, 'Boom, you're gone.’"
Trump went on to tell Cooper, "There’s no path to legalization unless they leave the country." This follows Trump’s town hall hosted by Fox News’ Sean Hannity broadcast Wednesday night in which Trump said he’d be willing to "work with" some undocumented people if they pay back taxes. Undocumented immigrants already do pay taxes. During the town hall, Trump at times appeared not to know what he thought, and instead turned to the audience to conduct a poll.
Donald Trump: "You have somebody who’s terrific, who’s been here—"
Sean Hannity: "Twenty years."
Donald Trump: "Right, long time. A long court proceeding, long everything, OK? In other words, to get him out. Can we go through a process, or do you think they have to get out? Tell me. I mean, I don’t know. You tell me."
Sean Hannity: "Well, well, let me—well, let’s do a poll."
Donald Trump: "Well, I’d like to know. I’d like to know. It’s a problem."
Sean Hannity: "How many think they should go through a process, that maybe give them a chance? Clap. We’ve got to hear you."
Donald Trump: "How many people?"
Sean Hannity: "How many think they should go?"
Donald Trump: "But do it again. Do it again."
Sean Hannity has acknowledged advising the Trump campaign, saying, "I never claimed to be a journalist."
TOPICS:
Donald Trump
2016 Election
Immigration
Clinton: Donald Trump Is Making Hate Groups Mainstream
Hillary Clinton has attacked Donald Trump, saying his campaign has empowered the far-right, white nationalist "alt-right" movement and that his campaign is making hate groups mainstream. This is Clinton, speaking in Reno, Nevada.Hillary Clinton: "From the start, Donald Trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia. He is taking hate groups mainstream and helping a radical fringe take over the Republican Party. His disregard for the values that make our country great is profoundly dangerous."
This comes as Hillary Clinton has released a new campaign ad linking Trump to the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacist groups. This is a clip of the campaign ad, which begins with the imperial wizard of the Rebel Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan speaking.
Imperial Wizard Billy Snuffer: "The reason a lot of Klan members like Donald Trump is because a lot of what he believes, we believe in. Donald Trump would be best for the job."
Chris Thomas: "For president?"
Imperial Wizard Billy Snuffer: "Yeah."
White Nationalist: "I am a farmer and white nationalist. Support Donald Trump."
Jared Taylor: "Sending out all the illegals, building a wall and a moratorium on Islamic immigration, that’s very appealing to a lot of ordinary white people."
David Duke: "Running against Donald Trump at this point is really treason to your heritage."
That’s the voice of David Duke, the former grand wizard of the KKK, and before that, Jared Taylor, editor of the white nationalist magazine American Renaissance, featured in Hillary Clinton’s new campaign ad.
TOPICS:
2016 Election
Hillary Clinton
French Court Overturns Ban on BurkinisFrance’s highest administrative court has overturned a local ban on full-body swimsuits known as "burkinis," amid ongoing controversy over an incident in which armed French police confronted a woman on the beach over her full-body dress. Photos of the incident show two armed police officers approaching the woman as she lay sleeping, and then standing over her as she removed her long-sleeve shirt. The police then gave her a ticket, which said that she wasn’t wearing "an outfit respecting good morals and secularism." More than two dozen French towns have banned the burkini, saying the swimsuit violates French secular laws. On Thursday, dozens of women protested the burkini ban at a rally outside the French Embassy in London. This is one of the protesters.
India Thorogood: "It’s never right to tell a woman what she can wear or to take her clothes off. That’s not for a man to say. And I think, in a time of increased Islamophobia, which we’ve seen in the U.K. and in France, it’s just an even more horrible image to see, because it just shows the kind of things that Muslim women have to deal with. So we wanted to show solidarity with Muslim women in France and call for a repeal of the ban."
Kerry Visits Saudi Arabia, as U.N. Condemns U.S.-Backed Saudi War in Yemen
Secretary of State John Kerry met with the Saudi foreign minister Thursday during a visit to Saudi Arabia, where the two discussed the ongoing U.S.-backed, Saudi-led bombing campaign in Yemen. This comes as the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra’ad Al-Hussein has called for an independent investigation into the bombing campaign, saying civilians are suffering "unbearably." In a statement, he wrote: "Such a manifestly, protractedly unjust situation must no longer be tolerated by the international community." In August, the U.S.-backed Saudi coalition has bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital, killing 19 people, and bombed two schools in northern Yemen, killing at least 14 children.
TOPICS:
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Argentina: Ex-General During Dirty Wars Convicted of War Crimes
In Argentina, the former head of the army during Argentina’s dirty wars has been convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to life in prison. Eighty-nine-year-old Luciano Benjamín Menéndez was found guilty of presiding over hundreds of disappearances and kidnappings, as well as multiple cases of murder and torture, at a secret military base in Córdoba between 1975 and 1979. The imprisoned ex-general is already serving multiple life sentences for other human rights abuses.TOPICS:
Argentina
Brazilian Senate Begins Rousseff's Impeachment Trial
The Brazilian Senate has begun the impeachment trial against President Dilma Rousseff, who was suspended earlier this year in what many are calling a coup. Her impeachment stems from accusations she tampered with government accounts to hide a budget deficit. The Brazilian group Transparency Brazil says 60 percent of Brazilian lawmakers are currently under criminal investigation or have already been convicted of crimes ranging from corruption to election fraud. Rousseff is slated to testify on Monday.TOPICS:
Brazil
Brazilian Police Charge U.S. Olympian Ryan Lochte
Meanwhile, Brazilian police have charged American Olympic swimmer and gold medalist Ryan Lochte with falsely reporting a crime. Lochte and his three Olympic teammates claimed they were robbed at gunpoint by men posing as police officers during the Olympic Games in Rio. But Brazilian authorities say the Olympic swimmers actually vandalized a gas station and then invented a story about having been the victims of a robbery. Lochte has already lost four corporate sponsorships since the incident.TOPICS:
Olympics
Brazil
Editor, Publisher and Writer Warren Hinckle Dies
And editor, publisher and writer Warren Hinckle has died. Hinckle was the editor of the magazine Ramparts, which he helped turn into a leading voice for the 1960s left. The magazine won a Polk Award for a 1966 article that revealed a Michigan State University group operating in Vietnam was in fact a CIA front group. It also published Eldridge Cleaver’s prison letters and Che Guevara’s diaries. Hinckle was also a major figure in the emergence of "gonzo journalism." This is Hinckle speaking about editing Hunter S. Thompson’s famous article about his trip to the Kentucky Derby.Warren Hinckle: "It was just a mess. It didn’t make much sense at all, the article. So, I just kind of bundled it all up and took a walk up the street around the corner to the Tosca. And, fortunately, it wasn’t a crowded night, so I sat in one of these back red booths and spent a couple hours actually reading this thing and figuring the heads and the tails. And it was episodic, to say the least. And to reassemble this, it was like—oh, dear, it was sort of like trying to assemble a very big, complex crossword puzzle without having the picture on the box."
Warren Hinckle died on Thursday at the age of 77 from complications of pneumonia.
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