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"There Were No Good Options": Bergdahl Should Get Honorable Discharge, Says Lawyer for Deserters
The Taliban has released a video showing the hand over of Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl to U.S. Special Operations Forces in the deal that saw the U.S. exchange five high-ranking Taliban militants held at Guantánamo bay. Despite winning the freedom of the only known U.S. prisoner of war, the deal has come under Republican attack amidst reports Bergdahl voluntarily left his base after growing opposed to the war in Afghanistan. Army officials say they will investigate whether Bergdahl engaged in misconduct, and several of the soldiers who served with him have taken to the media to call him a deserter. "[Bergdahl] is speaking as someone who has seen firsthand what the American imperial machine is all about … and is responding from a very core, visceral place," says James Branum, a lawyer who specializes in representing U.S. military deserters and conscientious objectors. "One can’t help be moved by that." Branum adds that most other soldiers convicted of desertion, including many of his clients, have received six to 24 month sentences. "[Bergdahl] has already effectively served more jail time than anyone ever has in the modern era for desertion, in his time as a POW. Given that, there is no reason to punish him."TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: The Taliban has released a video reportedly showing the handover of Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl to U.S. special operations forces five years after he was taken captive. In the video, a clean-shaven Bergdahl is shown sitting in a pickup truck prior to his release. One of the men tells him "don’t come back to Afghanistan. Next time we catch you, you won’t leave here alive." He is then brought out of the truck as a Blackhawk helicopter lands in a nearby open field. Two of the men, one waving a white flag, lead Bergdahl to meet three men and what appear to be civilian close. The men pat him down and flash a thumbs-up, then lead them into the helicopter where U.S. soldiers appear to be waiting. Seconds later, the helicopter lifts off. Bergdahl was released over the weekend in exchange for five high-ranking Taliban militants who had been held at Guantánamo Bay. The White House has apologized to keep lawmakers for not notifying them of the prisoner swap in advance. Speaking with reporters on Tuesday, Senator Dianne Feinstein said she received a call Monday night.
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN: Unless something catastrophic happened, I think there was no reason to believe that he was instant danger. There certainly was time to pick up the phone and call and say, I know you all had concerns about this. We consulted in the past, we want you to know we have renewed these negotiations. It would give us an opportunity to ask questions and hopefully obtain answers. Now, that was not there, so therefore, we are hit with a certain set of circumstances, intelligence that we knew, policies that we knew, that were changed and a law that was essentially disregarded.
REPORTER: Senator Reid said he found out about this on Friday, though, and Speaker Boehner didn’t find out ’til Saturday. Does it at all concern you about the optics of that, that Senator Reid found out ahead of time?
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN: I’m not going to get into that.
REPORTER: Have you had an apology from the White House for how this was handled,and — ?
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN: Yes, I did have a call last night from the White House. And they apologi — he apologized.
REPORTER: Are they acknowledging the law was broken in that apology?
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN: No, I didn’t ask for that. I mean, it was obvious — it’s obvious.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Meanwhile, House Speaker John Boehner has endorsed a call for congressional hearings to look into the administration’s handling of the prisoner swap. Senator John McCain also criticized the deal that led to Bergdahl’s release.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: This decision to bring Sergeant Bergdahl home, and we applaud that he is home, is ill founded. It is a mistake and it is putting the lives of American servicemen and women at risk, and to me, and that to me is unacceptable to the American people. These people have dedicated their lives to destroying us. These people have dedicated their very existence. Why do you think when the judgment was made that if they released them, it would cause great risk to the United States of America?
NERMEEN SHAIKH: During a news conference Tuesday in Poland, President Obama responded to the brewing controversy.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Let me just make a very simple point here, and that is, regardless of the circumstances, whatever the circumstances may turn out to be, we still get an American soldier back if he’s held in captivity. Period. Full stop. We don’t condition that. And that is what every mom and dad who sees a son or daughter sent over into war theater should expect from not just their commander-in-chief, but the United States of America.
AMY GOODMAN: All of this comes as Army officials now say they will pursue an investigation into whether Bowe Bergdahl should still be disciplined if they find evidence of misconduct, such as desertion. Several of the men who served with Bergdahl have taken to the media to call him a deserter. Some have also blamed him for the deaths of six to eight soldiers who went out looking for him, they say. But The New York Times reports that a review of casualty reports and military logs suggests the facts surrounding the deaths are far from definitive. Two of the soldiers who died during the most intense period of the search after Bergdahl disappeared June 30, were inside an outpost that came under attack and not on patrol looking for him. The other six soldiers died in late August and early September. For more we’re joined by two guests, in Oklahoma City, James Branum is a lawyer who specializes in representing military deserters and conscientious objectors. He’s also legal director for the Oklahoma Center for Conscience and Action and author of, "U.S. Army AWOL Defense: A Practical Guide." In London, England, we’re joined by Charles Glass, a historian and former ABC News Chief Correspondent. His book, "The Deserters: a Hidden History of the Second World War." In it he tells the stories of three men whose lives dramatize how the strain of war can push a soldier to the breaking point. They are among some 50,000 American soldiers who deserted in the European theater during World War II. We welcome you both to Democracy Now! James Branum, let’s begin with you. Your response to the controversy that is growing around the release of Bowe Bergdahl?
JAMES BRANUM: The most important thing we have to remember is that we do not know the facts. Yesterday in The New York Times, the headline was, the facts are murky. We really do not know, and this is really a key thing here. If the allegations are true, even then we have to say that what happened is the result of war itself. This is not uncommon, this is not unexpected. War is messy. Things get crazy.
In this case, what has been alleged is that Sergeant Bergdahl was struggling with issues of conscience, that there were major concerns that he had. When people are under the strain of conscience, a feeling like they’re violating what they believe, they do things that may not be logical. If the allegation is correct that he left the post, this is not something you do unless you believe you have no other choice but to violate your conscience. It was effectively was a suicidal kind of act.
In this case, though, he believed — it seems like that, if true, it was a matter of either violate my conscience and stay or potentially suffer my own loss of life. It is unfortunate he did not know the full range of options yet under the law. But, one of the problems is the military does not inform soldiers of their rights under the law to seek a discharge on the grounds of conscience or to seek other ways of relief. I think we have to look at the full context here. Fundamentally, we really don’t know the facts yet.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: James Branum, could you elaborate on that? What are some of the options available to soldiers who are struggling with their conscience in conditions of war? What could he have done, Bergdahl, had he known what his options were?
JAMES BRANUM: U.S. Military regulations allow for a service member who is currently a member of the military to file an application for conscientious objector status. In that application, they must explain in detail in an essay format what they believe about war. And they must show a few things. First of all they must show that their beliefs are sincere, that they’re not motivated by cowardice or expediency but they are based upon their conscience. Second, they have to show that their beliefs are based on the the religious grounds or deep conscientious grounds. In other words, that they are stemming from the core of their being. Third, they must show that they are opposed to all wars. You can’t pick and choose which one you’re opposed to. You can’t say, I only support just wars, that’s not good enough. You have to be opposed to all war. And then finally, you have to show that your beliefs changed sometime after you listed. The reason for this is if you enlisted and had these beliefs, then you would have fraudulently enlisted. Because they ask you about this, at least in theory, when you enlist. But after the time of enlistment, our military recognizes the fact that a person’s life can change. It could be religious conversion, it could be a dramatic experience. Many things happen in a service member’s lives. And when those things happen, if they reach a point that the service member can no longer serve without violating their conscience, that they can apply for this status.
The challenges is here is once they make the application there is a complicated and long process; interviews from a psychiatrist, interviews by a chaplain, and then in a hearing before an independent hearing officer and then it goes up the chain of command all the way up to branch level where final decision is made. It is not an easy process. It is a grueling, grueling process. That said, the process is there. The problem is, most service members do not know they have this right under the law. There’s no obligation for the military to — for commanders to inform service members of this right. Therefore, a right that you don’t know about effectively doesn’t exist. This is the logic of the Miranda decision and the Supreme Court said that the typical criminal defendant may not know they have the right to not talk to the police. In the same situation here a service member may not know they have the right to apply for this status unless this is told to them. Unfortunately that is not the case, and I think there is a very high likelihood that Sergeant Bergdahl may have struggled with issues of conscience, but did not know this process was there.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back to 2012 to the late reporter Michael Hastings who was writing for Rolling Stone about Bowe Bergdahl. He spoke on the TV network Russia Today about Bergdahl’s case..
MICHAEL HASTINGS: As to what drove Bowe Bergdahl to leave, first you have to look at, he was a 23-year-old kid who joined the Army and he expected that he was going to go over to Afghanistan and help people and be involved in this nation-building and essentially humanitarian activity. What he found when he got there was completely different. He thought he had been sold a lie. He thought that he was not being treated with respect by the superior officers. There was a serious command problem within his unit within Afghanistan. There was a serious break in command. One officer died and another got fired, three of the people he respected were kicked out. And so, that created this sort of perfect storm. You have this sort of disillusionment happening, plus all of these sort of horrible things he’s seeing with war that drove him to the decision to leave.
AMY GOODMAN: That is Michael Hastings, the Rolling Stone reporter who recently died. In his report, he talks about Bowe Bergdahl sending e-mails to his parents that suggested he’d grown disillusioned with the Afghanistan War. Bergdahl sent a final e-mail to his parents on June 27, three days before he was captured five years ago. In it he wrote, "The future is too good to waste on lies and life is way too short to care for the damnation of others as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I’ve seen their ideas, I’m ashamed to even be American. The horror of the self righteous arrogance that they thrive in. I is all revolting." He said. He said, "I am sorry for everything here." James Branum?
JAMES BRANUM: I think when we have to respect the profound sincerity and depth of what he is saying there. He is speaking as someone who has seen firsthand what the American imperial machine is all about. He has seen it first hand and is responding from a very core visceral place. And one can’t help but be moved by that. The challenge here was, was that there were no good options — at least that he underst — that he likely understood. Even if he had applied for conscientious objector status, that would not get him out of that deployment. He would still be there. The only thing the regulation says that would change his situation is that he wouldn’t be required to carry a gun and that he would be given duties that conflict as little as possible with his believes. The problem here in this situation is, is that when you are in a forward operating situation like this, when you’re on a deployment, not having a gun is pretty much a death sentence. You are in an incredibly vulnerable position and your entire unit is now made vulnerable by you. And so, this is is the challenge here. Even if he had exercised his rights in this situation, there were no good options. Effectively his best option may have been wait until his next leave came, go home and then apply for the status.
But, effectively, if he was struggling at that level of visceral emotion, there were no good options. I think we have to have a lot of sympathy for someone in that situation. Effectively though, if you look at it, the decision to leave and what has been alleged, that he left his unit with minimal equipment and whatnot, it certainly sounds to me like this is a guy — he was struggling. This is a guy who did not know what to do, and he made the best decision he could at the moment. I think we can’t judge that. One thing I would also say though, is in this scenario, I’ve heard variations on this over and over again, of service members who go, who join the military wanting to help people wanting to do humanitarian service. And they get there and their deployment is nothing like that at all, and it’s an incredibly difficult thing. And for many of them, they struggle. The good news is, though, for those who do — who are maybe not quite in that sever of a situation, there is hope. The G.I. Rights Hotline is one organization in particular that does a lot of work on the front lines. Obviously the military [Indiscernible] the National Lawyers Guild. These are groups that provide counsel to service members who are facing these crisis situations.
Unfortunately though, for a service member who is on deployment who may be away from the post, who’s somewhere they don’t have access to the Internet, don’t have access to the phone on a regular basis, it makes it difficult to get the help they need and that is something that we have to take into. Also, when we look at this situation, even if the allegations are true, the question is, is punishment appropriate? And I would argue it is not. Even if the military deemed him to be a deserter, this, this — Sergeant Bergdahl was imprisoned in a very difficult situation for five years. No U.S. military deserter in the current era has received more than 24 months in prison. Most, receive six months or less. Most of receive no jail time at all. Bergdahl has already effectively served more jail time than anyone ever has in the modern era, at least since gulf war one for desertion, in his time as an enemy P.O.W. So, given that, there is no reason to punish them. At worst, he should be — receive a discharge in lieu of court-martial. Personally, I believe he should receive a full honorable discharge.
AMY GOODMAN: In an astounding this morning on MSNBC’s Morning Joe the — half, if not the majority of the guests and hosts said that he should not have been saved. Given his political views.
JAMES BRANUM: That is insane. In our country we don’t sacrifice our service members based on their political beliefs. That is disgusting, personally. And in this case also, bear in mind that the situation, the prisoners that we exchanged, and again there are a lot of facts we don’t know yet, but fundamentally, the situation of the inmates at Guantánamo has been untenable for a long time. These are people who have not had their day in court, either. And so, personally, to return people who have been under the situation, even if they have done terrible things, to me, is a favorable thing to release these people anyway. And so, whatever it took to get Bergdahl home, to me, was appropriate.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you very much, James Branum, for being with us. Lawyer for military deserters and conscientious objectors, legal director of the Oklahoma Center for Conscience and Action, author of, "U.S. Army AWOL Defense: A Practical Guide." When we come back, Charles Glass joins us. He himself was held hostage for months. He is the former ABC News Chief Middle East Correspondent. His book is, "The Deserters: A Hidden History of the Second World War." And then we will talk about Charles Tiller, five years after his murder. Stay with us.
Is Bowe Bergdahl a Deserter? If Freed POW Left Post, He Joins Ranks of Soldiers Moved by Conscience
With freed American prisoner of war Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl now facing an Army probe into potential desertion, we are joined by Charles Glass, a historian and former ABC News chief Middle East correspondent. Glass’ book, "The Deserters: A Hidden History of the Second World War," tells the story of three men whose lives dramatize how the strain of war can push a soldier to the breaking point. They are among some 50,000 American soldiers who deserted in the European theater during World War II. "We have to understand what [Bergdahl] was going through," Glass says. "The young person at the front line, having believed in his country’s mission in Afghanistan and discovering it was not at all what he was told it was, and saw himself as part of the mechanism of oppression, of killing people, of going into villages, and when trying to take out enemy combatants was killing families. I hope that we’ll understand what he went through and have compassion for him and his family."TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: In our next segment we will talk about the fifth anniversary of the death of the doctor who performed abortions, George Tiller. But, today we continue with the growing controversy around Bowe Bergdahl, the prisoner of war who was released this past weekend. Nermeen.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: As we continue to look at Bowe Bergdahl’s case and the issue of military deserters, we are joined in London by Charles Glass. He is a historian and former ABC News Chief Middle East Correspondent. His book, "The Deserters: A Hidden History of the Second World War," was published last year. Charles Glass, welcome to Democracy Now! Could you tell us how you have responded to the news of Bowe Bergdahl’s release given your research on military desertions in the Second World War?
CHARLES GLASS: Like most people, I was glad to see any serviceman who has been held hostage released. His experience is not unlike that of some of the deserters that I wrote about in my book. I remember one, John Bain, a British servicemen who witnessed something very horrible in North Africa which was he saw members of his own unit, The Gordon Highlanders, looting the bodies of their fallen comrades on the battlefield. And this sent him into such a psychological state of mind that he simply wandered away through the desert in what he called a fugue, a flight from reality. It reminds me somewhat of what then Private Bergdahl might have felt that night when he was on sentry duty, when he wandered off without a weapon into the unknown. It sounds like a similar sort of fugue to John Bain’s where he did not really know where he was going or what he was doing.
AMY GOODMAN: Before we talk more about Bergdahl, can you talk about your own experience, Charles Glass, having been taken hostage yourself?
CHARLES GLASS: Well, I was taken by Hezbollah in Lebanon in the 1980’s at a time when America and Europeans in Beirut, Lebanon were fair game. As you may remember, just before my kidnapping, at the beginning of 1987, it had all come out that the Reagan Administration was exchanging weapons which it sent to Iran in exchange for hostages which the Iranians would order the Hezbollah to release. The Republicans who are criticizing Obama now might recall the Iran-Contra affair and the precedent set about exchanging weapons for hostages now is changing prisoners of war for prisoners of war.
AMY GOODMAN: There has been a lot of coverage over the last few days of fellow soldiers on television talking about their anger at Bowe Bergdahl for what they call deserting. But in terms of the political views of the soldiers who were with Bowe Bergdahl at the time, yesterday on Democracy Now!, we had a fascinating discussion with The Guardian reporter, photographer Sean Smith who actually embedded with the unit in 2009, a month before Bowe Bergdahl left the base. He embedded with Bergdahl’s unit in Afghanistan. In this clip, we hear from some of the soldiers who were together with Bergdahl.
SOLDIER ONE: These people just want to be left alone.
SOLDIER TWO: They got dicked with from the Russians for 17 years and then now we’re here.
SOLDIER ONE: Same thing in Iraq when I was there. These people just want to be left alone. Have their crops, weddings, stuff like that, that’s it man.
SOLDIER TWO: I’m glad they leave them alone.
SEAN SMITH: A few weeks later, Bowe Bergdahl, pictured in this photo, disappeared. The circumstances are unclear.
AMY GOODMAN: That is from the 2009 video for The Guardian produced by Sean Smith, the film maker. Michael Hastings wrote about that video in 2012 report for Rolling Stone, again noting the footage shows soldiers "breaking even the most basic rules of combat like wearing baseball caps on patrol instead of helmets." But very critical of what they were doing in Afghanistan. So, certainly, if the reports are accurate and the e-mail is accurate that he sent his parents, Bowe Bergdahl was not alone in his disillusionment, Charles Glass.
CHARLES GLASS: Well, we know from many soldiers who came back from Vietnam, many who came back from Iraq and many who’ve come back from Afghanistan that they all disapprove of what the country was doing in those countries. That they were invaders, occupiers who were telling their soldiers that they were there as liberators and people helping to build a country, and they discovered that it was completely different from what they thought. I’m not surprised to hear those voices from the men in Bergdahl’s unit, because they went through what he went through, which is that terrible disillusionment. In my own research in the Second World War, the front-line soldiers and almost all of the deserters in the Second World War were from the front lines, that very small minority of men who actually were in combat in the Second World War. None of their comrades on the front lines ever turned them in because many of them had felt that same impulse themselves. They were under such pressure. It was one of the considerations that they had that they might just run away one day. It was the rear echelon soldiers, those who never saw combat who would in the event turn those deserters in to be court-martialed. Men at the front lines go through all kinds of emotions, conflicting emotions, and sometimes they have such trauma and such stress that they crack. They inflict wounds on themselves to get out of battle, they runaway. The men who are beside them understand it better than those who were in the offices and in the rear echelons.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And Charles Glass, in your research, you found that the leadership of a battalion plays a significant role in the number of desertions from a particular battalion. Could you elaborate on the significance of that?
CHARLES GLASS: Well, in — for example, in the 36th Infantry Division in the Second World War, fighting in the high voge [sp], the desertion rates were out of all proportion to other divisions fighting similar battles. In part it was because the officers themselves had had such little time to train and they weren’t effective leaders. In another unit, for example, Audie Murphy, who was the most highly decorated of all the American serviceman who served in World War II, he worked his way up through the ranks from private to captain, and he was leading his company. He describes when one of his men broke down and had clear battlefield trauma and couldn’t fight anymore. Instead of sending him for court-martial as some of the commanders in the 36 Division did, he’ sent him for medical psychiatric treatment. At all frontline medical facilities there were psychiatrists. Because about 25% of all wounds in the Second World War were psychological and not physical.
AMY GOODMAN: Charles Glass, you write that thousands of American soldiers were convicted of desertion during the war. I mean, the numbers are astounding just of deserters. 50,000 Americans, 100,000 British soldiers during World War II. But 49 were sentenced to death. Most were given years of hard labor. One soldier was actually executed, a U.S. Army private from Detroit named Eddie Slovik. She was killed by firing squad January 31, 1945, making him the American soldier, the only — the first American soldier to be court-martialed and executed for desertion since the American Civil War. Talk about him and the number of people who deserted and then who was actually punished.
CHARLES GLASS: Well, Eddie Slovik never actually fought. He arrived in France well after D-Day and was sent as an infantry replacement to a unit where he did not know anyone and would not know anyone. As soon as he arrived near the front lines he came under a severe shelling. He was deeply shocked by it. He was shaken. He probably should have been sent immediately for medical treatment and might have been able to serve after that. But, in the event was so frightened, he told his officers that he couldn’t fight, indeed, wouldn’t fight, he wasn’t capable of it. They then were forced to court-martial him. The timing — he was convicted. He was convicted and sentenced to death. As many as 48 others were. But when he launched his appeal, the timing couldn’t have been worse because the German counter offense known as the Battle of the Bulge had begun and the military did not want to be seen to be condoning desertion, so they carried out his execution. But in this strange kind of military logic, they said they wanted to make an example of him but they kept the execution secret. It wasn’t really known until 1948 when William Bradford Huey wrote his first article about Eddie Slovik, in which he didn’t even name him, that a soldier had been executed for desertion. No one knew about it. So, it wasn’t really much of an example. And by the time he was shot, the Battle of the Bulge was ending in any case.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And what happened to the remaining 48? I mean it’s an extraordinary thing. Slovik was the first deserter to be executed since the American Civil War.
CHARLES GLASS: First and last for desertion. Many soldiers were executed during the Second World War for rape, murder, and other civilian crimes, but Slovik was the only one executed for desertion. He said — by his own admission, he said he was a victim of very bad luck and that if he hadn’t been and ex-con — he was an ex-con, he’d been a petty criminal before he went into the Army — he might not have been executed. He was right. He was very, very unlucky.
AMY GOODMAN: Charles Glass, how many of those that you looked at who deserted, deserted for conscientious reasons, because of their concerns about war, and what was the response of society afterwards?
CHARLES GLASS: Well, in World War II, it wasn’t the same as in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan. The soldiers who deserted weren’t conscientiously opposed to fighting Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany, they simply had severe battlefield trauma and they wandered away from the battlefield because they just couldn’t take it anymore — psychologically were incapable of taking any more. It was there only mechanism for survival. Many of them, when they reported back were given medical treatment and went back to the front lines. Many were court-martialed. It was on was arbitrary which it would be depending on the superior officer who made the decision. I came across almost no cases of people who were opposed to the war in principle. Those who were opposed to the war in principle were conscientious objector who didn’t serve in the military in any case, so that it wasn’t the same issue as it would be in the post-World War II wars that America fought.
AMY GOODMAN: Your final reflections, Charles Glass, having written this book and now seeing this story play out of the release of Bowe Bergdahl after five years being held by the Taliban, clearly before he left his base expressing antiwar views?
CHARLES GLASS: Well, I think it’s a call for compassion. We have to understand what he was going through. What a young person at the front line, having believed in his country’s mission in Afghanistan discovering it was not at all what he was told it was, that saw himself as part of a mechanism of oppression, of killing people, of going into villages and when trying to take out enemy combatants was killing families. What that does to a young man — I think we have to wait and see what he says when he leaves Germany and he’s finally allowed to speak publicly. And I hope we will understand what he went through and have some compassion for him and for his family. And it’s not really an issue of how patriotic he was. He was clearly patriotic enough to join the Army in the first place. He certainly believed in his country enough to do that. But in a way, his country let him down.
AMY GOODMAN: Charles Glass, I want to thank you for being with us. Charles Glass, historian and former ABC News Chief Middle East Correspondent, his book, "The Deserters: A Hidden History of the Second World War." When we come back, we go to the fifth anniversary of the murder of Dr. George Tiller. Stay with us.
After Supreme Court Rejects Appeal, Will Obama Jail New York Times Reporter James Risen?
As Oklahoma enacts a law that could close all but one abortion clinic in the state — and Louisiana is poised to follow suit — we look at the legacy of Dr. George Tiller, who was assassinated five years ago this past weekend. Tiller was one of a handful of doctors providing abortions in the third trimester of pregnancy. He braved constant threats, a firebombing at his clinic and an assassination attempt that left him with gunshot wounds to both arms. On May 31, 2009, anti-choice extremist, Scott Roeder, entered Tiller’s church in Wichita, Kansas, and shot him dead. We remember Tiller by speaking with Dr. Cheryl Chastine, who travels from Chicago to Wichita each week to provide abortions at Tiller’s former clinic, which reopened last year. Chastine discusses the obstacles to abortion access in Kansas and responds to the threats and harassment she and her colleagues face. "I get up in the morning and there are patients that need me," Chastine says. "If I allow myself to be deterred from doing this work, then I am allowing a victory for terrorism."TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: As Oklahoma enacts a law that could shutter all but one abortion clinic in the state and Louisiana is poised to follow suit, we turn to the legacy of Dr. George Tiller who was assassinated five years ago Saturday. Dr. Tiller was one of a handful of doctors in the country who provided abortions in the third trimester pregnancy. He faced constant threats and attacks. His clinic was fire bombed 1985. Eight years later, he survived an assassination attempt with gunshot wounds to both arms. Then on May 31, 2009, anti-choice extremist, Scott Roeder, entered Dr. Tiller’s church in Wichita, Kansas and shot him in the head. Dr. Tiller was 67 years old. Today we remember Dr. Tiller by speaking with the doctor who is carrying on his legacy, providing abortions at his former clinic in Wichita, which reopened last year. But first, this is Dr. George Tiller in his own words speaking in 2001. It is an outtake from a documentary by Physicians for Reproductive Health called "Voices of Choice." Dr. Tiller talks about how his father, a family doctor, provided abortions before it was legal.
DR. GEORGE TILLER: I do not know whether he did 100 abortions or 200 abortions or 300 abortions. I think it may have been something like 200 over of a period of about 20 years, but I don’t know for sure. I am a woman-educated physician. I don’t know how many abortions he did, but the women in my father’s practice for whom he did abortions educated me and taught me that abortion is not about babies, it is not about families, abortion is about women’s hopes and dreams and potential, the rest of their lives. Abortion is a matter of survival for women.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. George Tiller. He was assassinated five years ago May 31, 2009. Since his death, access to abortion has been diminishing amidst an onslaught of state laws. More abortion restrictions were enacted from 2011-2013 than in the entire previous decade. Last week Oklahoma enacted in an admitting privileges law that could close two of the states three clinics. Louisiana is poised to follow suit with similar law which could close up to four of five clinics there. A similar measure has already shuttered providers in Texas. For more we go to Dr. Cheryl Chastine, medical director and primary abortion provider at the South Wind Women’s Center which opened last year. Each week she travels from Chicago to Wichita to provide abortions in Dr. Tiller’s former clinic. Like Tiller, Dr. Chastine has faced a barrage of anti-choice for respite. Out of concern for her safety, she’s keeping her face in shadow. She is joining us today from Chicago. Dr. Chastine, welcome to Democracy Now! Why do you choose not to show your face today on this broadcast?
DR. CHERYL CHASTINE: The reason that Dr. Tiller was targeted or was able to be targeted so extensively is largely because he was extremely visible and people knew where he was and what he was doing. So he was in a position where all of his movements were being tracked and his murder was made possible by the fact that people knew exactly where he was and what he was doing, and they knew he would be in church at that particular time and it was the only consistent thing to do. As of right now, the people who are opposed to what I am doing don’t have a very clear idea of what I look like and so, for my physical safety, I feel much more secure that way.
AMY GOODMAN: So talk about what you’re doing.
DR. CHERYL CHASTINE: Yeah, so I travel to Wichita every week and I perform abortions for the women of Wichita and central and western Kansas as well as some of Oklahoma. We provide procedures up to the current Kansas legal limit, which is 20 weeks post conception or 21 weeks and six days post last menstrual period.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Dr. Chastine, could you talk about why it is that you decided to do this work? I mean, you fly every week from Chicago to Wichita. Talk about the significance of what you’re doing and why you chose to do it.
CHERYL CHASTINE: You know, when I was in medical school I got the message that there is a shortage of abortion providers and that, therefore, if more of us, including myself, did not become providers, that there would be women who not be able to access abortion when they needed it. So when I got the call to help open this clinic, I felt a very strong pull of moral obligation that these are people who need abortions who will not be able to access them if I don’t do it. And so I asked myself, “If you don’t do this, who will?” I went to medical school to help people, same as all of us do. So I felt like these people have a need and I have the ability to fill that need, and so I could not in good conscience say no.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the restrictions on abortion access in Kansas? Who are the women that you are serving? What states do they come from?
DR. CHERYL CHASTINE: Kansas has strict laws that are nonetheless less strict than some of the surrounding states. So Kansas has a mandated 24-hour waiting period. The patient must be given a specific set of state mandated information that includes risks of abortion, some of which are not medically supported. Then she must wait at least 24 hours before she can have her procedure done. Kansas has bans not only on Medicaid coverage of abortion, but also on private insurance coverage of abortion. And so all of our patients are paying out-of-pocket for the procedure which is a significant amount, particularly for the women who disproportionately seek abortion who tend to be from lower income brackets. The patients are required by state law to meet privately with the physician and also to have an ultrasound and to be offered the opportunity to view the ultrasound. After meeting privately with the doctor, they’re required to wait at least 30 minutes before they can be given any medication. Kansas also requires dual notarized parental consent for anyone under age 18. And so the women I see are accepting of this, mostly, but they are very aware that the state is intruding into their relationship with the doctor so many will ask, “Why do I have to wait? Why do I have to do this?” And the answer is, because the State of Kansas is hoping that you will change your mind in this time period. But we have women, nonetheless, coming from all over the state of Kansas. Kansas has four clinics, counting ours; but three of them are in the Kansas City area which is in the northeast corner of the state so central and western Kansas is pretty much served by our clinic, by South Wind Women’s Center. We have patients come from Missouri, from Oklahoma, and we are even started see patients from Texas as the legal climate there and the availability of abortion becomes less.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Last year David Leach from the extremist anti-choice group, Army of God, posted audio from a jailhouse conversation with Dr. Tiller’s murderer, Scott Roeder, where they talked about the reopening of the clinic in Wichita. This is David Leach.
DAVID LEACH: My statement, if someone would shoot the new abortionists like Scott shot George Tiller back in the Operation Rescue days, pro-lifers called him Tiller the Killer, hardly anyone will appreciate it but the babies.
SCOTT ROEDER: HA HA. That’s a very true statement.
DAVID LEACH: It will be a blessing to the babies. Everyone else will panic.
SCOTT ROEDER: HA HA. That’s great David, that’s great.
DAVID LEACH: Of all places to open up a killing office, to reopen the one office in the United States more notorious for decades than any other is an act of defiance against God and the last remaining remnants of reverence for human life.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And now this is Scott Roeder, Tiller’s murderer responding to David Leach. He mentions Julie Burkhart, founder and director of The Trust Women Foundation which reopened Dr. Tiller’s clinic.
SCOTT ROEDER: To walk in there and reopen a clinic, a murder mill, where a man was stopped, you know, it’s almost like putting a target on your back, saying well, let’s see if you can shoot me. HA. You know? But, you know, I have to go back to what my Pastor Mike Rays said, you know, if 100 abortionists were shot, they would probably go out of business so I think eight have been shot so got 92 to go and maybe she’ll be number nine.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was Scott Roeder, who murdered Dr. Tiller five years ago, speaking to anti-choice extremist, David Leach. Dr. Chastine, you are carrying on the legacy of Dr. Tiller’s work. Could you respond to what these people had to say?
DR. CHERYL CHASTINE: Yes, I want to be very, very clear that the murder and other acts of violence against abortion providers are acts of terrorism. They are acts of violence directed at a few people designed to influence the actions of many people and so they’re putting the statement out there, using this language that is clearly intended to incite someone else, as they say elsewhere in that clip, to take action and to stop other providers. And so these are people who are, admittedly, on the fringe of the anti-choice movement, they are nonetheless encouraged by the mainstream movement. They are encouraged by rhetoric like comparing abortion to the Holocaust, comparing abortion to slavery. So these are extremists, but they’re operating within a very fertile ground of sentiment.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Chastine, are you afraid?
DR. CHERYL CHASTINE: Yes. I can’t live my life that way. I get up in the morning and there are patients that need me and if I allow myself to be deterred during this work, then I am allowing a victory for terrorism. Yes, I am aware that there is a risk associated with what I am doing; but I don’t allow it to paralyze me.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Chastine, We want to thank you for being with us. You were in medical school when Dr. Tiller was murdered five years ago. I want to end with a short excerpt of Dr. Tiller in his own words in an event organized by The Feminist Majority Foundation in 2008. Dr. Tiller discussed his vision for a just and more humane society.
DR. GEORGE TILLER: I personally see a society that respects the integrity of its citizens to struggle with complex health issues and make decisions that are appropriate for them and their personal lives. I see a society that respects the religious differences of its citizens. I see a society that rejects hate, rejects judgmental condemnation, and rejects prejudice and racism. I see a government that honors the privacy of its citizens without unwarranted surveillance. I see a society where war is not an option and that the negotiation with mutual respect is the hallmark rather than mutual self-destruction. I see a society where the welfare of all is equally important as the riches of the few. I see a world that discusses solutions without demanding its own answers. We have given war, pestilence, hate, greed, judgment, ego, self-sufficiency a good try and it failed. We need a new paradigm that consists of kindness, courtesy, justice, love, and respect in all our relationships.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Dr. George Tiller, assassinated May 31, 2009, in his own church on Sunday. Thanks to Marc Bretzfelder for that video tape. That does it for our broadcast. Also, thanks to Cheryl Chastine, the Medical Director and primary abortion provider at South Wind Women’s Center in Wichita, Kansas, the former clinic of Dr. George Tiller.
Headlines:
•Military to Probe Bergdahl Case; White House Apologizes for Lack of Notice to Congress
The U.S. military has announced a probe of the circumstances surrounding Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl’s disappearance in Afghanistan that led to his five-year capture. Bergdahl was freed over the weekend in a prisoner swap with the Taliban. Despite winning the freedom of the lone known U.S. prisoner of war, the deal has come under Republican attack amidst reports Bergdahl voluntarily left his base after growing opposed to the war in Afghanistan. The White House has apologized to key lawmakers for failing to notifying them of the prisoner swap in advance. Senator Dianne Feinstein said she received a call Monday night.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "I did have a call last night from the White House and they apologized, he apologized."
Reporter: "Are they acknowledging that the law was broken in that apology?"
Senator Dianne Feinstein: "I didn’t ask for that. I mean, it was obvious."
The Taliban meanwhile has released a video reportedly showing Bergdahl’s handover to U.S. Special Operations Forces on Saturday.
•Sisi to Be Sworn-In Following Election Victory
Egypt’s former military leader Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has officially been declared the winner of the country’s presidential race, taking more than 96 percent of the vote. Voter turnout was at just 44 percent, compared to the 52 percent in the election of former President Mohamed Morsi in 2012. Sisi led the military coup that ousted Morsi last year. He will become the sixth military leader to run Egypt since the army overthrew the monarchy in 1952. He is expected to be sworn-in on Sunday. Some international observers have claimed the Egyptian election failed to meet democratic standards, citing an environment of repression by the military-backed regime. In a statement today, the White House congratulated Sisi, but said: "We share concerns … about the restrictive political environment in which this election took place." President Obama is expected to speak with Sisi in the coming days.
•Egyptian Satirist Ends Broadcast over Censorship, Threats
In a development many are linking to the Egyptian regime’s crackdown on dissent, Egypt’s most popular satirist has announced he is taking his program off the air. Bassem Youssef’s broadcast has been compared to Jon Stewart’s "The Daily Show" for its comedic take on politics in Egypt and the Middle East. Yousseff says he is ending his program rather than face censorship and threats on his life. Youseff was vague on the pressure he has faced, but suggested the military regime has made it impossible for him to continue.
•Obama: NATO Expanding in Europe to Counter Russia
President Obama has met with Ukrainian president-elect Petro Poroshenko as part of a continued swing through Europe. Obama sat down with Poroshenko in Poland after calling on Congress to support a $1 billion plan to ramp up the U.S. military presence across the European continent. Obama said NATO is expanding its presence across Europe following Russian interference in Ukraine.
President Obama: "Given Russia’s actions in Ukraine, NATO has increased its presence across the region from the Baltics to the Black Sea. I thank our allies for the contribution they are making and I will be discussing the initiative that I announced today to bolster the U.S. presence in Europe."
•U.S. to Reopen Diplomatic Presence in Somalia
The United States is renewing diplomatic ties with Somalia for the first time in 23 years. The State Department says improving security conditions will lead to the appointment of a U.S. ambassador and the re-opening of the U.S. mission in Mogadishu. Announcing the move, State Department spokesperson Wendy Sherman said the United States will also continue to launch military strikes in Somalia as it sees fit.
Wendy Sherman: "As a reflection both of our deepening relationship with the country and of our faith that better times are ahead, the president will propose the first U.S. ambassador to Somalia in more than two decades. We indeed look forward to the day when both nations have full-fledged diplomatic missions in the capitol of the other … From time to time, the U.S. military has conducted such action in Somalia against a limited number of targets who, based on information about their current and historical activities, have been determined to be part of al-Qaeda. And in the future we may take action against threats that pose a continuing imminent to U.S. persons."
Although diplomatic ties have been frozen, the U.S. has maintained a military and intelligence contingent inside Somalia for years, running a CIA base and launching drone strikes.
•Nigeria Backs Down on Protest Ban; Generals Reportedly Found Guilty of Boko Haram Ties
The Nigerian government has reversed an order banning demonstrations for the return of more than 200 missing schoolgirls. The police commissioner in the capital Abuja had announced protests were no longer allowed over fears they could be hijacked by violent extremists. But protesters flooded Nigeria’s high court in defiance. Femi Falana, an attorney for the "Bring Back Our Girls" campaign threatened to challenge the ban in court.
Femi Falana: "We have the court of appeal restraining the police perpetually from preventing any group of Nigerians to demonstrate and protest peacefully. What Mbu (commissioner of police, Abuja) has done yesterday is not only illegal, it’s contemptuous and contempt is a criminal offense and I’m talking of contempt committed, 'ex facie curiae'. It’s a criminal offense, we are also lodging a complaint to the attorney general of the federation to have Mbu prosecuted."
A report in the Nigerian media today says ten military generals have been found guilty of aiding the Boko Haram, the militant group behind the girls’ kidnapping and scores of other attacks. The Nigerian government has denied the claim.
•25th Anniversary of Tiananmen Square Marked in Hong Kong
Thousands of people are gathering in Hong Kong today to mark the 25th anniversary of the crackdown in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square, when Chinese forces crushed student protesters. On June 3 and 4, 1989, the Chinese military killed an untold numbers of unarmed civilians in Beijing and other cities after weeks of nonviolent protests. In China, the government has arrested activists and stepped up its censorship of commemorative websites in the weeks leading up to the anniversary. Dozens of riot police have also been deployed today around Tiananmen Square.
•Central U.S. Hit With Severe Storms, Flooding
Parts of the central United States are being hit with severe storms, bringing flooding, tornadoes, and baseball-sized hail. Major damage has been reported in an area north of Omaha, Nebraska. A local resident surveyed the damage to his home.
Resident: "Hell, it was about four o’clock when it hit, and boy it come through like a freight train, man. It sounded like the world was coming to an end almost. It was bad. Wife, just, we all went to the basement, and whenever it calmed down a little bit, we went upstairs, and all the windows is gone in the house and all the siding’s gone."
The storms have also hit parts of Kansas, Iowa and Missouri as they now move further east. A National Climate Assessment from the White House last month listed stronger storms and extreme rainfall as one of the outcomes of human-driven climate change in the United States.
•Mississippi GOP Senate Primary Headed for Runoff
Votes were held in eight states on Tuesday as the mid-term primary season continues. In Mississippi, Republican Sen. Thad Cochran, a six-term incumbent, appears headed for a runoff against Tea Party challenger Chris McDaniel. Four of McDaniel’s supporters were arrested last month for a plot to break into a retirement home and take pictures of Cochran’s bedridden wife. In what is expected to be a competitive race this fall, Iowa Republican Joni Ernst will square off against Democrat Bruce Braley to fill the Senate seat of retiring Democratic Sen. Tom Harkin.
•Justice Dept. Revives Domestic Terror Unit
The Obama administration is reviving a law enforcement group focusing on politically motivated domestic terrorism. The first such task force was established after the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995, but was then disbanded after the 9/11 attacks. The Justice Department says it is re-establishing the unit following a spate of attacks from home-grown extremists. In April, a white supremacist killed three people at two Jewish community sites in Kansas.
•Teens Among 6 Wounded in Chicago Shooting
Six people have been wounded in a shooting at a Chicago laundromat. Two of the victims were teenagers, with one in critical condition. A witness described the scene.
Matthew Gillis: "It sounded almost like fireworks. I looked out my bedroom window and I see some young guys running. I don’t know if they were victims or if they were the perpetrators. But I mean it’s kind of sad because the little kids can’t really play outside anymore. My kids go to the school."
Chicago has grappled with some of the worst gun violence in the country. A recent proposal from Mayor Rahm Emanuel calls for videotaping all gun sales and limiting them to one per month.
•New NSA Chief Rejects Portrait of Snowden as Foreign Spy
The new head of the National Security Agency has distanced himself from previous government suggestions that whistleblower Edward Snowden is a foreign spy. Officials including former NSA director Keith Alexander have contended that Snowden may have worked with Russian or other foreign intelligence agencies. But at a public forum with Bloomberg News, new NSA chief Michael Rogers shot down that theory.
Reporter: "Do you really believe he fundamentally believes in what he did, or do you think could have been working for someone else as a double agent?"
NSA Director Michael Rogers: "Could he have? Possibly. Do I believe that’s the case? Probably not."
•New York City Teachers Approve Landmark Contract
New York City teachers have overwhelmingly approved a new contract, ending a long-running and bitter dispute. The nine-year, $4 billion deal will increase pay by 18 percent, but could lead to higher health care premiums. It is expected to serve as a model for other municipal unions locked in contract disputes.
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