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El Chapo is Caught, But Corruption, U.S. Consumption & Failed Drug War Keep the Cartels in Business
The Mexican government has moved toward extraditing drug lord Joaquín "Chapo" Guzmán to the United States after his recapture in Mexico on Friday. Guzmán’s drug cartel is said to be one of the most powerful in the world. But it’s unclear how much of an impact his arrest will have on a drug war that has killed tens of thousands in Mexico over the past decade. Critics say that if sensible drug laws were established in Guzmán’s chief market—the United States—drug lords like him would not be in business. We are joined from Mexico City by two guests: Laura Carlsen, director of the Mexico City-based Americas Program of the Center for International Policy, and Elena Poniatowska, a founder of the newspaper La Jornada and one of Mexico’s most beloved writers.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: The Mexican government has move towards extraditing drug lord Joaquín "Chapo" Guzmán to the United States after his recapture in Mexico on Friday. El Chapo managed to escape a safe house through drains and tunnels, and steal a car, before Mexican forces nabbed him as he fled. Footage of the operation on the safe house released on Monday show an intense gunfight that left five suspects dead.
Guzmán is now held at the maximum-security Altiplano prison—the same prison he escaped from through a tunnel dug under his cell six months ago. He had also previously escaped from prison in a laundry cart in 2001. The United States had sought to extradite him before his most recent escape, but Mexico refused. The embarrassment of Guzmán’s getaway last year has raised pressure on the government of President Enrique Peña Nieto and sparked questions about its vulnerability to corruption. Guzmán is said to have been aided by paid informants and accomplices on the inside.
But his capture this time may have been his own doing. Mexican authorities say they were helped in their investigation by Guzmán’s communications while in hiding, including with actor Sean Penn. Guzmán apparently agreed to do an interview with Penn for Rolling Stone as part of a bid to turn his life story into a movie. He also reportedly had a strong personal interest in the Mexican actress who arranged the meeting, Kate del Castillo. In this excerpt from Penn’s interview, Guzmán responds to a question about the harms caused by drugs.
JOAQUÍN "EL CHAPO" GUZMÁN: [translated] Well, it’s a reality that drugs destroy. Unfortunately, as I said, where I grew up, there was no other way, and there still isn’t a way to survive, no way to work in our economy to be able to make a living.
AMY GOODMAN: Guzmán is challenging his potential extradition to the U.S., a process that could take well over a year. His drug cartel is said to be one of the most powerful in the world, but it’s unclear how much of an impact his arrest will have on a drug war that’s killed tens of thousands in Mexico over the past decade. Advocates say if sensible drug laws were established in Guzmán’s chief market—the U.S.—drug lords like him would not be in business.
Well, for more, we’re going directly to Mexico City, where we’re joined by two guests. Laura Carlsen is director of the Mexico City-based Americas Program of the Center for International Policy. And Elena Poniatowska is with us, founder of the newspaper La Jornada, one of Mexico’s most beloved writers. She is the recipient of the Cervantes Prize, the most prestigious literary prize in the Spanish language.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Elena Poniatowska, let’s begin with you. Your reaction to the capture of Guzmán and how he was captured?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Yeah, well, he’s the king of tunnels, as you can see, and he was captured. I think he was followed by the Mexican government everywhere ever since he—when he flew away the first time, no? And it’s being—they treat it—they treat this event as if it was a national victory, which it is not. It is only—it is only something that distracts Mexico from the politics, the bad politics, of a bad government.
AMY GOODMAN: Laura Carlsen, can you talk about what actually happened on January 8th, how he was captured, what makes this different from his previous arrests and his two previous escapes?
LAURA CARLSEN: He was—
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Well, he was captured in, as you—as we all know, he was captured while he was escaping. And in the north, he’s very well loved by people. He’s considered a hero by many poor Mexicans that have benefited from him, as in Colombia Colombians used to benefit of Pablo Escobar. I mean, really, the drug dealers become kings in Latin America—not only in Mexico, in Colombia, wherever they are—because they do what the government doesn’t do. In many cases, they help poor people, and people love them. They are a kind of a Robin Hood, of course.
LAURA CARLSEN: So, he was captured in his home state of Sinaloa. And the Army—the Navy, rather, which has been the preferred security force of the United States—and we’ve seen lately that it’s the Navy that carries out these kinds of operation, because they’re more trusted and more supported with the cooperation from the U.S. government—moved in, in a private residence. Again, as Mrs. Poniatowska mentioned, he is the king of tunnels, and so he escaped the shootout in the residence and went down into the sewage system. He then later came up through a manhole, took a car and was captured on the highway. And one of the big differences we see in this case, compared to the capture previously in 2014, which many people, including myself, thought was probably the result of a prearranged agreement, is that he was really on the run. And there was violence in this one. There were five people killed, as opposed to the bloodless capture the last time. So, it was—it looked more like an authentic operation.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Laura Carlsen, can you talk about what you see as the significance of his capture and the U.S. requesting his extradition, what he means in Mexico?
LAURA CARLSEN: This high-profile capture will have absolutely no impact—unless it’s a negative impact—on the violence and organized crime caused by prohibition, both here in Mexico and in the United States. We already know this. The kingpin strategy of taking out the drug lords, the high-level drug lords, in order to supposedly dismantle the drug trafficking organizations and the illegal trade, has never worked. And here in Mexico, it’s well documented that it leads to more violence. What we often see is that a cartel faces turf wars. It faces challenges from rival cartels after a leader is taken out, and in some areas the rivals see the parent cartel as weakened, and/or it suffers a process of fragmentation, where smaller cartels break off and they turn out to be more violent and more dangerous to the public than the original one. So what we can really, unfortunately, expect from this is a setback, and a setback in the sense that it’s all over the news, and the capture of El Chapo is presented as this huge victory, and what it does is it reaffirms this drug war policy of the U.S. and the Mexican governments that’s led to the death of more than 100,000 Mexicans.
AMY GOODMAN: What could reduce the violence, Laura?
LAURA CARLSEN: There are a lot of proposals out there, and one of them is legalization in the United States, because it’s prohibition that creates these illegal markets that are, of course, occupied by criminals, by definition. And so, as those are taken out of their hands, their financial empire is reduced, and they have less power to buy the guns, to recruit the young people, to buy the politicians and to operate freely the way they do here.
Another, of course—and this is something that Mrs. Poniatowska has written on—is ending the corruption, because what we’re seeing here is maybe a victory, but in a war that’s lost. And it’s a war that in many ways is not even being fought, because the Mexican government is so invested, on all levels, in organized crime, that the impunity rates continue to be 98 percent. You can put somebody like El Chapo behind bars, but what about all the other criminals? What about the 26,000 disappeared who haven’t been found? Those are the root problems that she mentions, that we’re be distracted from because of all this media blitz on the capture of El Chapo.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to talk about that in a minute, but I wanted to ask you, Elena Poniatowska, to expand on Laura’s point.
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Well, for the Chapo, it’s worse, it’s very bad for him, as a man, to be in prison in the United States, because in Mexico you can get away from prisons very easily. And he can do it better than anyone else. And besides, prisons in Mexico are very different from the prisons in the United States. And here, El Chapo, besides being admired by all the poor people, has many, many friends. And I’m sure he has friends in the government.
AMY GOODMAN: And before break, I wanted to get a comment from each of you on Sean Penn and the interview that he did with El Chapo, his secret meeting with him a few months ago, and whether you believe that it was his meeting with him that led to his arrest. Elena Poniatowska?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: It’s obvious it was. Sean Penn went to see him and had an interview through this new Malinche, this new woman who gives her country to—as Malinche did it to Hernán Cortés, to the Spanish conquerors. So she gives him—she has this opportunity. She’s done movies on drugs herself. So she’s a intermediary—I don’t know how you say it in English. No, she’s a go-between. And she is the one who—
AMY GOODMAN: The intermediary.
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Yes, she is that. She is the intermediary. Well, the go-between was a very beautiful picture, movie picture. And this is not very beautiful at all.
LAURA CARLSEN: No. It’s this—
AMY GOODMAN: You’re talking about Kate del Castillo.
LAURA CARLSEN: Right, right. So this is another sideshow. And, in fact, the attorney general said that it did indeed have to do with his capture. And what you see here is really what happens when two massive male egos get together: El Chapo, in this case, wanting to do a biopic and smitten with the actress Kate del Castillo, and Sean Penn looking for the adrenaline shot the same way. But, of course, the response of Mexican people is like, "OK, so how did two actors drop in on El Chapo Guzmán, the most wanted man by the U.S. and Mexican governments, when both governments have been searching for him, oftentimes for months, for years?" And again, that raises the question that the capture of El Chapo has never really been about how, and these complicated and sophisticated operations, but simply when. And that’s why Mexican people are so skeptical about the timing of this and the fact that it could really have a lot more to do with raising the image of the president, Enrique Peña Nieto, than with any huge victory in the drug war.
AMY GOODMAN: Although Hollywood has been abuzz about Sean Penn’s interview with El Chapo, some have begun to question the ethics around the article, which was published by Rolling Stone. Speaking at the Golden Globes, actor Alan Cumming questioned whether the article was really journalism or a celebrity stunt aimed at securing the rights to a biopic.
ALAN CUMMING: But I don’t know that it’s—I don’t understand how he and Rolling Stone can have sanctioned him going to meet that guy, who is a wanted fugitive, and then that—then not to tell the authority. You know, I don’t really know enough about it yet, but I do think it’s a bit dodgy. And I’m not sure that I think the idea of newspapers or magazines allowing correspondents to go and talk with people who are wanted for very heinous crimes and—you know, I don’t know. It’s just—and especially someone who’s a movie star. The whole thing is a bit weird. But I’m sure it will make a great film. Maybe I’ll play Sean, or maybe I’ll play El Chapo. I could do El Chapo. I can get a tan. I could pull it off. Me and Cate Blanchett could do it. She could play Sean, and I’ll play the drug dealer.
AMY GOODMAN: That was the actor Alan Cumming. Elena Poniatowska, you’re a leading journalist in Mexico. You are the founder of the newspaper La Jornada. You know, it may well be that Sean Penn and Kate del Castillo’s interview with El Chapo led to his capture, but what are your thoughts?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: About what’s happening? My thoughts—
AMY GOODMAN: About the interview, about Sean Penn meeting with him.
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Well, I think it’s a big show that is for Mexico that distracts us from the real problems. I think it’s just—the capture, many—I think six months ago, no? It was really good news. It was news. And now it’s just a story that you make up for magazines. That’s what it is, no? Afterwards, it will be a story for jokes, and it’s a story—it’s not—I don’t think it has any real depth or importance.
LAURA CARLSEN: Yeah, I think the journalist ethics are highly questionable here. And in fact, I don’t think that this started out or principally was a journalistic endeavor. I don’t think that the article had really much to do with this meeting. This was about getting together a producer—because Sean Penn is primarily an actor and producer, not a journalist, and you could tell that by reading the article—and an actress, a beautiful actress, to talk about doing this biopic. So that raises even more journalistic questions. Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to go to a break, and when we come back, we’ll continue with our discussion. Laura Carlsen, thanks for joining us, Center for International Policy. And, Elena Poniatowska, we’d like to ask you to stay with us as we about the politics of Mexico. After that, we will come back to New York to speak with the man who filmed the death of Eric Garner. The only one to be criminally charged in Eric Garner’s—in this case are not the officers, but the man who filmed the death. Stay with us.
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Why is Ramsey Orta, Man Who Filmed Police Killing of Eric Garner, the Only One Criminally Charged?
As Sgt. Kizzy Adonis becomes the first officer to face reprimand for Eric Garner’s death, the only person present that day to be criminally charged is the young man who filmed it. Ramsey Orta, who recorded the fatal chokehold on his cellphone, has been arrested multiple times since. Orta says police have deliberately targeted him for capturing Garner’s death on video and exposing it to the world. Supporters rallied for Orta on Monday at a court appearance on Staten Island. Orta joins us along with Eric Garner’s daughter, Erica Garner, and Reggie Harris, a member of the Black Organizing Project.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go back to that day in August of 2014, to the police—it was July of 2014. Ramsey Orta, I—we have seen your video countless times, the world has seen this video, but we have rarely heard your voice. Talk about what you saw happen that day and what inspired you to flip open your cellphone and start filming.
RAMSEY ORTA: What I saw that day was NYPD murder my friend. And what inspired me to take the video, because I have past videos of NYPD abusing their power with people I associate with.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, you started filming.
RAMSEY ORTA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: You didn’t stop.
RAMSEY ORTA: No.
AMY GOODMAN: Your hand is remarkably steady as we show this video.
RAMSEY ORTA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: What were you thinking?
RAMSEY ORTA: It’s about to go down. And I just had to make sure I stood there, and make sure I had got every detail and I didn’t miss nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: And what were you feeling as you are filming? You were a friend of Eric Garner’s.
RAMSEY ORTA: I was upset. I mean, you can clearly hear it in the video. I was running my mouth in the video, but yeah, I was highly upset.
AMY GOODMAN: What were you saying?
RAMSEY ORTA: I was cursing, calling them names and telling them to leave him alone, and that I have witnessed that he wasn’t selling any loose cigarettes, that he just had broke up a fight.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, explain that. He was known for selling loosies, loose cigarettes, but actually, on this day, there had been a fight in the street, and he had gone to mediate the fight, like to try to break it up?
RAMSEY ORTA: Yeah, the fight had broken out maybe two feet away from us. He jumped up and separated them. As soon as he separated them, the cops came out of the car and targeted Eric.
AMY GOODMAN: What has happened to you since July 17, 2014? First, what did you do with that video?
RAMSEY ORTA: First, the Daily News got in contact with me and asked me if I had any pictures, and I told them, "I got a video," and we took it from there. And from then on, I’ve been targeted by NYPD. I got five pending cases right now—two in Supreme Court, three in criminal. Since then, I’ve just been harassed. I’ve been almost killed in Rikers Island.
AMY GOODMAN: How long were you held at Rikers Island? We interviewed your aunt at the time that you were in Rikers.
RAMSEY ORTA: I was in Rikers two separate times, one for 60 days and one for 30 days, I believe. And the 60-day stay was the time that I went on the hunger strike.
AMY GOODMAN: For how long?
RAMSEY ORTA: A month and a half.
AMY GOODMAN: What were you striking about?
RAMSEY ORTA: The rat poison, and I didn’t want to eat nothing that Rikers provided me to eat.
AMY GOODMAN: Why? What do you mean, rat poison?
RAMSEY ORTA: There was rat poison in the food.
AMY GOODMAN: Did you think you were being targeted?
RAMSEY ORTA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, you were arrested. Your wife was also arrested?
RAMSEY ORTA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: What was—why was she arrested?
RAMSEY ORTA: She got arrested for assault charges that was allegedly caught on camera. And now we come here today, and the charges brought up against her are dropped.
AMY GOODMAN: You have been arrested on—for drug offenses. In one of those arrests, you said that the police officer said to you, "You videoed us, now we’re videoing you."
RAMSEY ORTA: Mm-hmm.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain when that was and what they said?
RAMSEY ORTA: Clearly, when they jumped out on me, that was the first thing that came out his mouth: "You filmed us, so now we’re filming you," because I asked, "Why do you have your cameras out?" When they jumped out on me, they had their phones in their hand, instead of a gun or anything, from my knowledge, was supposed to be in their hand. So I asked him: Why is he filming me? And he said, "Because you filmed us."
AMY GOODMAN: Are you sorry you filmed the death of your friend, Eric Garner?
RAMSEY ORTA: No.
AMY GOODMAN: Are you sorry you put it out for the world to see?
RAMSEY ORTA: No. I am sorry for not having a legal defense before I actually put the video out there. Other than that, I don’t regret nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean, a legal defense?
RAMSEY ORTA: As far as lawyers and people that I know that can protect me for any retaliation from happening.
AMY GOODMAN: Have you sued the New York Police Department?
RAMSEY ORTA: No.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you plan to?
RAMSEY ORTA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Why?
RAMSEY ORTA: Took my life away from me, took my friend’s life away from me. There’s nothing more I could say.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you say to Ramsey Orta, Erica? Soon after your dad died, there was a big service in Staten Island at a church, and when Ramsey Orta’s name was mentioned, the entire—all of the people there—and this church was packed to the rafters—applauded. What has Ramsey Orta meant to you and your family?
ERICA GARNER: Like a hero. I just want to say that, you know, hearing him, being in the same room with him, hearing the words come out his mouth instead of just reading it in a newspaper, it really hits home. There was a lot of craziness in the beginning, but my family always respected the fact that he recorded this video. But, you know, in a way, I feel like I could have been there for him a little bit more. But I just—I just don’t know how. Like, we was put in this position. Both our lives was destroyed. The police, with the constant—I get harassed on Twitter. You know, he get harassed in person. And, you know, I’m just here for him, you know, whatever he needs. I want to use, you know, whatever I’m doing, the work that I’m doing now, to really capture his voice. He hasn’t been really recognized in the media. And I just want to, you know, be able to project that to the world, you know, about the way things happened, knowing firsthand what’s going on with his cases and then keeping people updated on what he’s being charged with and his cases and stuff. I just want to offer support. You know, my family, we talk about him a lot, you know, and we say how it’s disgusting how they keep wanting—targeting him. Like, when he was in jail and being rat poisoned, with the rat poison in his food, like, I was hurt. Like, he’s already like there and not supposed to be there, and now you’re all trying to kill him. And he—
AMY GOODMAN: What proof did you have that there was rat poison in your food, Ramsey?
RAMSEY ORTA: I was serving the food, for one. And two, a couple of my friends had saved some of the food, and when the time came, we gave it to Department of Health, and they brung back the labs saying that it was rat poison.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined by Reggie Harris, adviser to Erica Garner, director of organizing at the Black Organizing Project, speaking to us from San Francisco. Can you talk about the significance of what’s taking place right now? Eric Garner’s family—the latest news, the grand jury refusing to indict the prosecutor in the case, now the congressmember from Staten Island, but one officer has been internally charged, not criminally indicted, Kizzy Adonis. Your thoughts?
REGGIE HARRIS: First of all, thank you for having me. Ramsey, I’m sorry I couldn’t be there in the room with you, but you are a hero. And, you know, I’m here for you in any way I can be.
Just a little bit of background about Staten Island: It’s populated largely on the south side of the island from people—or by people from South Brooklyn that went there as a result of white flight. And so you have a tension there between the people on the south side of the island and the people on the north side of the island. Eric Garner was killed on the north side of the island. Most of the minorities are located on the north side of the island. However, three out of every five New York City police officers reside in Staten Island. And so, when you look at situations where Daniel Donovan—where Daniel Donovan, the DA at the time, getting promoted now to Congress, and he runs this entire race without mentioning Eric Garner hardly at all. We’re looking at situations where, on that island now, because politically you want to appease the police officers that reside there, you know, Debi Rose is endorsing Mike McMahon, who is the new DA, at the same time while you have Pat Lynch, the president of the Police Benevolent Association, of the police union, endorsing the same man. It’s an incestuous cesspool of kind of cover-ups and double dealing there. You know, the Democrats on Staten Island are no better than the Republicans.
AMY GOODMAN: Before we—
REGGIE HARRIS: And so, when you take a look at—
AMY GOODMAN: Reggie, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask Erica, as you speak about Congress, are you thinking of running for Congress, Erica Garner?
ERICA GARNER: What I want to do is I want to organize black and brown—the black and brown folk on Staten Island. I want to knock on doors. I want to ask the people of Staten Island about their issues firsthand, because no one is talking about, you know, what’s going on in Staten Island. So, if I do decide to run for Congress, I want to, you know, be one of those elected officials that get into office and don’t turn their backs on people. I want to be one who wants to hold people accountable and get the corrupted out. I want to be able to treat—the same way how they treat whistleblowers, I want to be able to point out the corrupted elected officials and get them out.
AMY GOODMAN: And what are your plans, Ramsey?
RAMSEY ORTA: Plan is just to keep spreading the word of Copwatch and make sure everybody has knowledge and—
AMY GOODMAN: You’re going to keep filming?
RAMSEY ORTA: Yeah, I’m going to keep filming.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both for being with us—we’ll continue this conversation afterwards and put it online at democracynow.org—Ramsey Orta, Erica Garner, Reggie Harris.
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Mexican Writer Elena Poniatowska on the Missing 43 Students, 1968 Massacre & U.S.-Backed Drug War
One of Mexico’s most beloved writers, Elena Poniatowska is a founder of the newspaper La Jornada and the country’s first feminist magazine, Fem. She’s the recipient of the Cervantes Prize, the most prestigious literary prize in the Spanish language, and is the first woman to win the Mexican National Award for Journalism. Poniatowska joins us to discuss the capture of El Chapo, the movement surrounding the missing students in Ayotzinapa, the Tlatelolco student massacre of 1968 and the failed U.S.-backed drug war.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We continue with Elena Poniatowska, founder of the newspaper La Jornada, one of Mexico’s most beloved and acclaimed writers, recipient of the Cervantes Prize, the most prestigious literary prize in the Spanish language. We’re speaking to her in Mexico City.
You talked about, Elena Poniatowska, what needs to be done in Mexico, what you think needs to be focused on. Can you expand on that?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Yes. I think that what is more important in Mexico is education. It’s for the children to be able to go to school. Of course, hunger is also a very big problem. But the one that really, really, really for me is very painful is education. And there’s very little money spent on education, on good teachers, on schools, on even rooms where children can go and work. And I think this is the worst problem in Mexico that has to be taken care of. And it has not been taken care of. I remember when I came to Mexico as a little girl, I loved my teacher, La Seño Velázquez. I loved her, and she was a very good teacher. And now I don’t know what happens with the teachers, because I haven’t been in school, but I think that children need education, especially in the country, in el campo, I mean, in wherever. They need to eat, and they need to be educated.
AMY GOODMAN: You wrote the book The Night [of] Tlatelolco about the Tlatelolco massacre of 1968. It was right before the Olympics, and students were gunned down in Mexico City. Now Mexico is embroiled in another massacre, in Ayotzinapa, the students of the rural teachers’ college, 43 young men, still not clear what happened to them. And you have been focusing on this. What do you think—how must this be investigated to find out the truth about what has happened to them?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: I think that, first of all, these young students, these young—they were—well, they were students because they wanted to become teachers. Many of them wanted to be bilingual. They were very poor, of course. Ayotzinapa is in a state, Iguala, which is a state which has been rejected all the time by the government, because two leaders or two men were considered like Emiliano Zapata—Lucio Cabañas and Genaro Vázquez Rojas. They were both teachers. Of course, after they were so disappointed by the government, they became guerrilleros, or guerrilla leaders—I don’t know how you say it in English. And so the state is hated by the government. And besides, it’s been run by very corrupt, very, very corrupt governors. So, of course, the students, they can—sometimes they take advantage of buses, and they take what they think belongs to them.
But the students are young people. I think young people are the hope of Mexico, the hope of any country. Young people are the hope also of all the Americas, of Latin America. And instead of being taken into account and protected, they are murdered, they are killed. I don’t know. Maybe the fathers of these students, they tell you not to say that. They say that you have to say that they’re only disappeared. But after so—after more than a year, how can you say they’re disappeared? And I think the army has a lot to do into this—the Mexican army, of course. And I think the government is responsible for this.
AMY GOODMAN: Elena Poniatowska, when you talk about the government, what do you feel is the president’s responsibility here, Peña Nieto?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Well, he’s taken absolutely no responsibility. I don’t think the word "responsibility" exists for him. He doesn’t know what it means.
AMY GOODMAN: And the reaction of the entire country? I think the reason that this massacre has gotten so much attention is the families, the communities, the massive protest that has continued even after a year after the disappearances of the students. What difference that has made?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Yeah, this is very important, because in 1968, for the massacre of Tlatelolco, there wasn’t any response from society, or there was a very low response. And now there is a response of students, who organized themselves through the Internet—I don’t know anything—through those—the cellulars, the cellphones. And they’ve had marches through the city, very well organized, and they’ve been protesting. And, of course, newspapers like La Jornada are still speaking about Ayotzinapa and the students, the 43 normalistas, who have disappeared, disappeared.
AMY GOODMAN: You’ve also spoken out against the violence against journalists in Mexico, one of the deadliest places for journalists.
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Mm-hmm, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain what journalists face.
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: What a journalist—journalists, especially in the north here in the city, I think we are safe, except there was one journalist killed many years ago here in the city, Mexico—Manuel Buendía. He was murdered in the streets because he knew so much about drugs. But in the north, it’s very easy to disappear a journalist, and there have been many women journalists who work in La Jornada and who work in the magazine Proceso who have been persecuted and who have suffered a lot for trying to help or trying to bring out what’s happening to the people, what’s happening especially to young people.
AMY GOODMAN: In Mexico City, the Museum of Memory and Tolerance has unveiled an altar to the journalists killed over the last decade—at least 32 reporters—
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: —killed in Mexico since 1992, making it one of the deadliest places for journalists.
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Mm-hmm, yes, I know. Yes, I’ve been there, of course. But what can I say about that, no? I don’t believe either in the cult of death, now, in cultivating or speaking or writing only about death. I believe about—I believe in life. I believe that a country like Mexico deserves—deserves what—it’s a wonderful, extraordinary country, generally speaking.
AMY GOODMAN: And speaking to a U.S. audience, though our audience is also global, as we wrap up this discussion and the focus on the U.S.-Mexico relationship is very much in the media spotlight with the U.S. asking for the extradition of El Chapo right now, what do you think is the U.S. responsibility and what United States should be doing in this war on drugs that has killed so many people?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Well, the drugs, they all go to the United States. It’s the United States is the consumer of drugs, much more than in Latin America and much more than in Mexico. So, the consumer, the one who asks for the drugs, the one who buys the drugs, is obviously el culpable, is obviously the one who we—the responsible, es el que responde, el responsable.
AMY GOODMAN: Right, the responsible one. And finally, the issue of immigration?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Yes, in many ways, yes, of course. We are responsible for our poverty. But the United States is responsible for buying what hurts the country.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, the issue of immigration. The new year, 2016, has seen a series of raids of immigrant families in the United States. Your thoughts on the U.S. policy towards immigrants, and the presidential candidates’ statements, like Donald Trump’s, saying that a wall should be built, that undocumented immigrants should all be removed from the country, all 11, 12 million people?
ELENA PONIATOWSKA: Well, Mexico has not been able to feed 12 million people. That’s why they all go to the United States. But we are all countries of immigrants. My name, Poniatowska, is not exactly Mexican. My name is Polish, of Polish origin. It’s not because I want to speak of myself, just we are countries of immigrants. The United States is a country of immigrants. So immigrants are the future of the world, if the world has a future. So, I don’t know. What can I say about this? I think people, a man and a woman and children, should be very well treated in this world, should be treated well in Mexico, treated well in Europe, treated well in Asia. And the man is not being treated—in the universe, is being treated like trash, like. So this is where the world has become, has become the worst enemy, finally, of man, of manhood—I don’t know, my English is not so good—is what we do to each other.
AMY GOODMAN: Elena Poniatowska, I want to thank you for being with us and for your eloquence, founder of the newspaper La Jornada, one of Mexico’s most beloved and acclaimed writers, recipient of the Cervantes Prize, the most prestigious literary prize in the Spanish language, speaking to us from Mexico City.
This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. When we come back, we’ll be joined by Eric Garner’s daughter. Eric Garner is the 43-year-old African-American man in Staten Island who, well over a year ago, was killed by New York police, put in a chokehold and taken down. The reason we know exactly what happened is because of the video that was taken at that moment. We’ll also be joined by the young man who videoed the police taking down of Eric Garner. Ramsey Orta joins us. Stay with us.
... Read More →
Eric Garner's Daughter: Instead of Black Supervisor, Charge the White Officers Who Killed My Father
Eighteen months after Eric Garner’s death at the hands of New York City police, one officer is finally facing charges. But the charges are not criminal, and the officer was not directly involved in Garner’s death by chokehold. Instead, Sergeant Kizzy Adonis, who is African-American, faces internal charges of "failing to supervise." The internal charges against Adonis come just over a year after a grand jury elected not to indict white officer Daniel Pantaleo for killing Garner in a chokehold. Pantaleo remains under Justice Department investigation. The Garner family reached a $5.9 million settlement with New York City in July. We are joined by Eric Garner’s daughter, Erica Garner, who says authorities should be charging the officers who killed her father.
Watch Part 2 of the interview
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: In the 18 months since Eric Garner’s death at the hands of New York City police, his family has led a tireless campaign for charges against the officers involved. Now one officer is facing charges—they’re departmental charges—but she’s not one of the officers who directly was involved in the chokehold death of Eric Garner. Instead, Sergeant Kizzy Adonis, who is African-American, faces internal departmental charges of, quote, "failing to supervise." Adonis was one of two supervising officers who responded to the scene and watched it unfold. She has been stripped of her badge and gun. The internal charges against Adonis come just over a year after a grand jury decided not to indict the white police officer Daniel Pantaleo for taking Garner’s life. After Officer Pantaleo pulled Garner to the ground in the chokehold, officers then piled on top as Garner said "I can’t breathe" 11 times. The officers had confronted Garner for allegedly selling loose cigarettes. His family reached a $5.9 million settlement with New York City in July. Officer Pantaleo remains under Justice Department investigation.
While some have welcomed the charges against Sergeant Adonis as a step forward in the case, Eric Garner’s daughter, Erica, has spoken out in Adonis’s defense. Erica Garner says Sergeant Adonis was the only officer at the scene who tried to save her father’s life. And while Adonis is the first officer to face reprimand, the only person who has actually been criminally charged who was at the scene that day is not an officer. Ramsey Orta, the young man who actually filmed the fatal chokehold on his cellphone and released the footage, has been arrested multiple times by police since Garner’s death. Ramsey Orta says police have deliberately targeted him for capturing Garner’s death on video and exposing it to the world. Supporters, including Erica Garner, joined Ramsey Orta on Monday at yet another of his court appearances on Staten Island. Erica Garner refers to Ramsey Orta as "the only man charged in my dad’s death."
Well, to discuss these latest developments, Erica Garner and Ramsey Orta join us now. And we’re joined in San Francisco by Reggie Harris, a member of the Black Organizing Project and adviser to Erica Garner.
Let’s begin with you, Erica. So, talk about this latest news. I mean, a grand jury did not indict any officers, but the New York Police Department has brought the sergeant, the supervising officer, Adonis, up on departmental charges. Your thoughts?
ERICA GARNER: My initial thought was it was no surprise. In the beginning, when the reports was being leaked to the media, we already knew that they was highlighting Kizzy Adonis’ actions, the fact that she lied on the report. Now, a year and a half later—
AMY GOODMAN: What was that lie?
ERICA GARNER: Oh, that my dad wasn’t in distress. She heard him say that "I can’t breathe," but he wasn’t—she believed that he wasn’t in distress, which was clearly a lie. So, a year and a half later, for them to charge her for failure to supervise, I think it’s ridiculous. I think it’s a political move. Those officers, as you can clearly see on the video, if she did say, "Let up. You got him already," she is a supervising officer, and they disobeyed a direct order. And that further supports my argument in my article or my YouTube video, when I say that if you can find charges or enough charges to charge this black lady on failure to supervise, it was a lot of cops on the scene that day, and how come the other sergeant wasn’t charged yet? How come the borough commander? How come Bill de Blasio, the city’s mayor? How come Mayor de Blasio and William Bratton, the commissioner? It’s a lot of people that should be charged with failure to supervise, because they failed us on that day.
AMY GOODMAN: What has happened to Officer Pantaleo, the man who put your dad in a chokehold?
ERICA GARNER: He still has his job. He’s still getting paid. He’s still walking the streets of Staten Island. He’s still being this monster to the black community in Staten Island. Even though he’s put on modified duty, he’s still running amok in Staten Island. So, nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: We did call the New York Police Department. They said they wouldn’t come on, but said, "Probationary Sergeant Kizzy Adonis of the 120th Precinct was served with disciplinary charges today in connection with the NYPD internal review of the July 17, 2014 incident on Staten Island involving Eric Garner. ... Sergeant Adonis has also been placed on modified assignment status."
ERICA GARNER: I’m aware of that; it had been playing for about a week and a half. And that’s not enough, you know? I don’t think she should be charged. Like, if she’s charged, that means you’re admitting that something—that a murder went down in my dad’s case. You’re expressing—New York is expressing—the New York Police Department is not taking full liability, but they are saying that something wrong went down.
AMY GOODMAN: Interestingly, they said, at the request of the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York, the internal disciplinary review of the Garner incident has been placed on hold pending a federal inquiry. "The NYPD, in consultation with [U.S.] Attorney’s office, served the departmental charges at this time in order to preserve the disciplinary statute of limitations." And it goes on from there. What is this federal inquiry? And what do you understand is happening?
ERICA GARNER: I just think all these investigations that’s going on, it’s like a game of ping-pong. They keep on bouncing back and forth: "Well, I’m waiting for this, I’m waiting for that." I sat on a panel like last month with the civil rights liberty, and it was representatives from the Department of Justice. And I clearly looked the man in the eye, and I asked him—I was like, "If I was your family member, would you tell me the same thing, that I need to wait to see if any charges or anything—if, like, basically, if you’re in my position, how would feel, if I was your daughter?" And I told them, basically, you know, "Time is up. We demand answers, so we can have closure." This has been dragging on for a year and a half, and there’s no sense for it to be a year and a half, if you can come up 18 months later and say, "Oh, well, this black officer, Kizzy Adonis, is guilty of failure to supervise." That’s the only answer that we got after a year and a half.
... Read More →In Iraq, a series of bombings and shootings have killed scores of people, marking the country’s deadliest day in three months. At a mall in a predominantly Shiite area of the capital Baghdad, attackers detonated a car bomb and then stormed inside. At least 32 people were killed and 58 injured. Northeast of the capital in the town of Muqdadiyah, 42 people were killed in a twin suicide bombing at a cafe. The self-proclaimed Islamic State has claimed responsibility for both attacks. Meanwhile, earlier today a suicide bomber attacked a checkpoint north of Baghdad, killing four police and injuring an intelligence officer.
Turkey: Explosion in Istanbul Kills At Least 10
In Turkey, an explosion in a tourist area of Istanbul has killed at least 10 people and injured 15. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says the bomber had ties to Syria.
U.S. Repatriates Saudi Prisoner, Leaving 103 in Guantánamo
The Obama administration has repatriated a Saudi prisoner held at Guantánamo since the early days after the prison first opened in 2002. The transfer of Mohammad al Rahman al Shumrani came on the 14th anniversary of the arrival of the first prisoners at Guantánamo. Shumrani arrived January 16, 2002. Throughout his 14 years there, he was never charged with a crime. His transfer leaves 103 prisoners at Guantánamo.
London: Former Prisoners Call for Closure of Guantánamo on 14th Anniversary
On Monday, former prisoners Ruhal Ahmed and Shaker Aamer were among those who rallied outside the U.S. Embassy in London to call for Guantánamo’s closure.
Shaker Aamer: "We want everybody to know that today we are here not as brothers from Guantánamo, no, as everybody, all of you, the media outlets, for one reason: It’s truly to bring justice back, to close Guantánamo once and for all."
Ruhal Ahmed: "It’s been kept open by a country who claim to be the champions of democracy and champions of justice. It’s just a joke, to be honest. And it saddens me that it’s open, and I’m out, and I’ve moved on with life, and they haven’t, that they’re still stuck there."
Syria: Aid Reaches Besieged Town of Madaya Amid Starvation Reports
An aid convoy has reached the besieged Syrian town of Madaya, where the United Nations says it’s received credible reports of people starving to death. About 40,000 people have been trapped in the rebel-held town for six months amid a Syrian government blockade. Monday’s shipment was the first foreign aid to reach Madaya since October.
France: Authorities to House Calais Refugees in Shipping Containers
French authorities have opened new temporary shelters to house some of the people living in France’s largest refugee camp. Thousands of people in the port city of Calais have been camped out in makeshift tents in what they call the "jungle." Their goal is to reach Britain by jumping on top of or inside trucks. Officials have now unveiled shipping containers that can hold up to 1,500 people; they are equipped with heat, but no water or sanitary facilities. One Afghan resident objected to the new lodgings, saying residents are fingerprinted and "it’s like a prison." To see our reports from the Calais refugee camps, click here.
Sanders and Clinton Effectively Tied in Iowa; Clinton Condemns ICE Raids
The Democratic presidential candidates spoke in the key caucus state of Iowa Monday at the Black and Brown Forum hosted by Fusion network. Just weeks before the caucus, polls show the race between Democratic candidates Hillary Clinton and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is essentially tied. The latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows Clinton leading Sanders by just 3 percentage points among likely Iowa voters. Sanders is ahead of Clinton in the key primary state of New Hampshire. At Monday’s forum, Clinton broke with the Obama administration to condemn the recent raids targeting Central American families who have fled violence.
Hillary Clinton: "I have come out against the raids. I do not think the raids are an appropriate tool to enforce the immigration laws. In fact, I think they are divisive. They are sowing discord and fear. And I also have come out in favor of guaranteeing that unaccompanied children have government-sponsored counsel, so that as they go through the process, they will not be lost in the process, confused by the process, and will have a chance to tell their story."
Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina Cut from Main GOP Debate Stage
In news from the Republican campaign trail, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul and former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina will not participate in this Thursday’s prime-time debate. Fox Business Network says the pair don’t have strong enough poll numbers to join the seven top candidates on the main stage. Paul said he will refuse the offer to take part in the so-called undercard debate before the main debate, citing the
"faulty analysis" used to determine participants.
Supreme Court Expected to Deal Major Blow to Public Sector Unions
The Supreme Court appears set to deal a major blow to public employee unions. The justices heard arguments Monday in a case brought by the right-wing Center for Individual Rights and backed by other anti-union groups. The case involves 10 California teachers who object to a state law requiring them to pay a "fair share service fee" for collective bargaining activities, even if they choose not to join a union. In 1977, the Supreme Court ruled against forcing non-union members to pay for a union’s political activities, but upheld required payments for collective bargaining. The court now appears likely to overturn that precedent, potentially weakening public sector unions nationwide by allowing workers to opt out of paying for union activities that benefit them.
Report: Koch Brothers' Father Built Oil Refinery for Hitler
Among the groups that have backed the right-wing law firm in the union case are entities used frequently by the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch. Politico has reported the Kochs’ political machine now eclipses the official Republican Party in key areas, with about three-and-a-half times as many employees as the Republican National Committee. Meanwhile, a new book on the Koch brothers by New Yorker journalist Jane Mayer reveals the Koch brothers’ father, Fred Koch, helped build an oil refinery in Nazi Germany—a project approved personally by Adolf Hitler.
Detroit Schools Shuttered by Teacher "Sickout" over Mold, Infestations
In Detroit, Michigan, most public schools are shuttered today after teachers staged a "sickout" to protest the state’s inaction over black mold, rat infestations, crumbling buildings and inadequate staffing. Detroit teachers say they have up to 45 or 50 students in some classrooms.
Video: In Flint, Michigan, Gov. Snyder Refuses to Say If He Would Pay for Contaminated Water
Meanwhile, Michigan Governor Rick Snyder faced intense questioning in another Michigan city—Flint—over the poisoning of the city’s water. Residents have reported lasting health impacts after an unelected emergency manager appointed by Governor Snyder switched the city’s water source to the long-polluted Flint River in a bid to save money. Under questioning by reporters Monday, Snyder refused to say whether it’s fair for residents to continue to pay for the poisoned water.
Dave Bondy: "If you had contaminated water coming from your tap at home, should you have to pay for it?"
Gov. Rick Snyder: "Again, that’s one of the questions that we’ll be reviewing. Our focus right now is"—
Dave Bondy: "No, the question is: Should—the question is: Should you be paying for contaminated water..."
Gov. Rick Snyder: "The issue"—
Dave Bondy: "...if it came out of your tap?"
Gov. Rick Snyder: "We’re addressing the immediate issue now, which is making sure people have water filters and other resources."
Dave Bondy: "You’re not answering my question, sir."
Gov. Rick Snyder: "I’m answering your questions."
Dave Bondy: "You’re answering someone’s question, but not mine."
Maryland: Trial Delayed for Police Van Driver in Freddie Gray Case
In Baltimore, the police officer who drove the van in which Freddie Gray is believed to have suffered fatal injuries that left his spine "80 percent severed at his neck" has had his trial postponed. Jury selection was due to begin Monday for Officer Caesar Goodson, the second of six officers to go on trial in the case and the one facing the most serious charges. But the case has been postponed amid a dispute over whether a key witness, Officer William Porter, will be forced to testify. Porter’s own trial for his role in Gray’s death ended in a mistrial last month, and he faces a retrial in June. At his own trial, Porter said he told Officer Goodson that Freddie Gray needed to go to the hospital.
Michelle Obama to Leave Vacant Chair for Gun Victims at State of the Union
President Obama will deliver his final State of the Union address tonight, a week after he announced he was taking executive action on gun control. Michelle Obama is expected to leave an empty seat in her guest box at tonight’s speech to represent people killed by gun violence.
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