democracynow.org
Stories:
President Obama is planning a day of meetings at the White House today related to the fallout from the killing of Michael Brown and the ensuing protests in Ferguson. Obama will first meet with his Cabinet to discuss the results of a review of federal programs that provide military-style equipment to state and local law enforcement agencies. He has also invited younger civil rights leaders for a meeting to discuss what one official described as the "broader challenges we still face as a nation, including the mistrust between law enforcement and communities of color." Attorney General Eric Holder is heading to Atlanta today to speak at Ebenezer Baptist Church where Martin Luther King Jr. once preached. We are joined by Michael Eric Dyson, professor of sociology at Georgetown University. Dyson’s op-ed for the New York Times this weekend is "Where Do We Go After Ferguson?" He is also the author of a forthcoming book on President Obama and race.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: President Obama is planning a day of meetings today at the White House related to the fallout from Ferguson. He will first meet with his Cabinet to discuss the results of a review of federal programs that provide military style equipment to state and local enforcement agencies. Obama has invited younger civil rights leaders for a meeting today to discuss what one official described as "the broader challenges we still face as a nation including the mistrust between law enforcement and communities of color." Also today, Attorney General Eric Holder is heading to Atlanta to speak at the Ebenezer Baptist Church were Martin Luther King Jr. once preached. Holder’s visit is part of the White House strategy to strengthen relationships between police and the communities they serve. We go now to Washington, D.C. where we’re joined by Michael Eric Dyson, University Professor of Sociology at Georgetown University. His piece for the New York Times this weekend was titled, Where Do We Go After Ferguson? He is author of a forthcoming book on President Obama and race. Professor Michael Eric Dyson, welcome back to Democracy Now! What was your response to the verdict? I call it a verdict, it was actually a grand jury decision last week. But, it seemed like a verdict. It seems that you had a grand jury that actually conducted a trial for one side of the case. The other side, Mike Brown, dead.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Absolutely, and we decry when cases of flagrant violation occur in other countries. We are upset when we think due process is not acknowledged. We are outraged when we think that people don’t have access to evidence and able to defend themselves, or at least people who are concerned about the case, defend a particular point of view. We had a full on trial, except we didn’t have anybody defending Mike Brown or his memory or his point of view. We had no testimony that was put forth by a defense lawyer that might have repudiated several of the things that officer Wilson said. And then we had a prosecutor who was acting as a defense attorney for Officer Wilson. And there is a sad, tragically debility about what happened because Robert McCulloch, the prosecutor, has never brought a case against a police person who has been accused of killing a black person there in the area.
So, when you put all of that stuff together, it was a toxic brew. It was predictably something that would end in an unsatisfying verdict because it was a trial. And I think this underscores the inability of people of color to get our viewpoints across. It is not simply a matter of mistrust or distrust. You know, when somebody is abusing a child, you don’t say, let’s develop trust between a parent and a child. You remove the abusive parent, give them some parenting skills and lessons, or the very least, prevent them from imposing further abuse on that child. So, I think that the very metaphor that regulates and governs the kinds of meetings between the White House, which are critical and necessary, and police departments and citizens, surely, must involve developing trust, but trust only after the abuser has been removed.
AMY GOODMAN: You mention the word "child," Michael, and that is exactly how Darren Wilson described how he felt, he felt like a five-year-old child dealing with — I think he put it, Hulk Hogan. Can you talk about the trove of papers that McChulloch released and that description that Darren Wilson gave of dealing with Mike Brown?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Yes, that is an excellent point to underscore. Mike Brown was six-four-six, and 292 pounds. Officer Wilson is six-four-six, 210 pounds . So, you are hardly a child against a Hulk Hogan. Look at what is being reinforced here. The brawny blustering, as Ann Petry put it, behemoth, This big black man, 18 years old, this big black man who was rising up in the collective imagination of America and in Officer Wilson’s site as some kind of demonic force. He literally used the word demon. It was a demon — it looked like a demon coming at me. He is reduced him to a thing. He has made him an animal or less. He has made him a figment of not only his imagination, but the collective imagination of America that has been fearful of the black male threat.
When you put all that stuff together from pop culture, from deep religious and scientific treatises in the early part of the 20th century that were completely and thoroughly racist, then you have got a tremendously difficult problem on your hand. And that is to say, how do black people protect themselves not against simply the bullets of a police officer, but the metaphors, the stereotypes, the tropes that operate in that police officers imagination that are equally lethal because they lead to trigger-happy cops or at least trigger — hair trigger decisions where cops and up believing that they must use lethal force to contain a threat that is not even real, or if there is a real threat, resort to the most lethal form of resolution of the conflict as opposed to trying other things like driving away, like using mace, like tasing, like calling for help and the like. So, when we think about all of this, this is the dehumanization of African-American people. This is the failure to recognize our fundamental rights to exist in the state. This is using state authority to legally execute black people on the streets of America.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Dyson, I wanted to go to that exclusive interview with ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos last week that officer Darren Wilson gave breaking his silence about the shooting of Mike Brown.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOUS: Is there anything you could have done differently that would have prevented that killing from taking place?
DARREN WILSON: No.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOUS: Nothing?
DARREN WILSON: No.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOUS: And you’re absolutely convinced when you look through your heart and your mind, that if Michael Brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way?
DARREN WILSON: Yes.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOUS: No question?
DARREN WILSON: No question.
AMY GOODMAN: Stephanopoulos also asked Wilson whether the killing of Michael Brown would always haunt him.
DARREN WILSON: I don’t think it’s haunting. It’s always going to be something that happened.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOUS: You have a very clean conscience.
DARREN WILSON: The reason I have a clean conscience is that I know I did my job right.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Michael Eric Dyson, your response?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Well, this is disturbing. First of all, even people, men of war, women of war, who feel that they are executing their duly sworn responsibilities have a sense of shame or guilt or at least some kind of disturbing emotion that makes them regretful of having to do what they think they have to do. This man has a clear conscience because he is conscience-less when it comes to executing his responsibilities in the face of black humanity, denying black humanity, refusing to acknowledge that there were alternatives available to him. And then feeling a kind of dispassion, a kind of clinical distance from the event as if it was somebody else doing it. The reason he is not bothered by it is because I think this man has been reared in a culture that has taught the lack of respect for black lives. That’s why the black lives matter is important.
And let’s not forget, "30 for 30," the ESPN documentary series did one of their documentaries on, I think it was a football team from Ferguson, and one of the young men who was on that team was driving in a car, his parents were driving behind him, on the way home, the young man was pulled over by a cop. Since the father was in the car behind him, he gets out of the car, he goes to the car to discover what is going on, and they say this policeman treated them with profound disrespect, was extremely aggressive, hostile, and nasty, was attempting, I think, to arrest the father but ultimately, did not do so, who wasn’t officer Darren Wilson. So, we know that this man is used to being 6’4", big, bigger than most of his "competition" most of the people that he deals with, and when he met his match, so to speak, physically, to speak physically, let’s be real.
What may have happened there is the same thing that might have happened with Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman is that a white person, in this case, even worse because he is a duly sworn officer of the state, attempting to menace and intimidate an African-American youth and may have got more than he bargained for, or bitten off more than he could chew, and as a result of that, withdraws his gun from its holster or wherever it was planted and then shot this boy mercilessly, and then even on the streets, despite what he testified to, there are so many other witnesses that suggested Mike Brown’s hands were up. He is asking his friend, who heard him, he’s asking the policeman, why are you shooting me and I don’t have a weapon? So, the reality is, that when we piece together the evidence, Darren Wilson has an extremely dangerous mindset. His resignation came too late to save Mike Brown’s life, but other policemen should be checked for similar kinds of aggression that become racialized when their targets are African-American people.
AMY GOODMAN: What needs to happen now Professor Dyson, and what do you think of what President Obama is doing today at the White House, having this kind of summit with young civil rights leaders, talking about the issue of the militarizing of the police as well as a how communities of color can get along with law enforcement?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Well, that’s all very necessary. I applaud the president for that, but again, when I made the analogy earlier about abuse in the communities that have been abused, let’s not pretend that this is an equivalence. There are no instances — well, there are not instances that we have been outraged about by attempts of broad communities to target police people people and to constantly murder them, assault them, and the like. There are tremendous tensions that need to be discussed. Of course the policing of communities is necessary, given the extraordinary difficulties in some communities and the crime in other communities. There is no doubting that. But, to simply say, let’s develop trust; the trust rests upon what? Resolution of conflict, of negotiating differences and informing the police that they cannot be occupying forces in these African-American and Latino committees and in these poor areas.
So, it’s a matter of not only developing trust because we have to understand each other, we also have to tamp down on the lethal ferocity of police departments that have been over militarized, undertrained when it comes to dealing with people of color, refusing to acknowledge their humanity, and that thin blue line that ostensibly separates police people from so-called civilian society, has often been blurred and the erratic and I think often dangerous practices of rogue cops or cops who don’t have enough sensitivity about the humanity of people of color and others needs to be raised. So, it’s a good first step, but I think just like the Kerner Commission was convened by President Lyndon Johnson while the flames of Detroit, my home city, were yet burning, while there are embers of simmering tensions in Ferguson, yet, I think the president should in empanel a commission to talk about police brutality in America, and to understand its vicious consequences and what we can do to resolve it.
AMY GOODMAN: You really got into it with former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani on Meet the Press last week when he talked about the problem of police violence, he said was a distraction from the real problem of black on black crime.
RUDY GIULIANI: I find it very disappointing that you’re not discussing the fact that 93% of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We’re talking about the exception here.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Well, look, first of all, —
CHUCK TODD: Go ahead Michael.
RUDY GIULIANI: The significant —- let me just finish -—
CHUCK TODD: This is about a trust issue —
RUDY GIULIANI: We’re talking about the significant exception. 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Let me respond to that.
CHUCK TODD: Let him finish that sentence then I’ll let you respond.
RUDY GIULIANI: I would like to see the attention paid to that that you are paying to this, and the solutions to that.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: He’s taking up the time. First of all, most black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail. Number two, they are not sworn by the police department as an agent of the state to uphold the law. So, in both cases, that is a false equivalency the mayor has drawn.
AMY GOODMAN: Giuliani appeared later on Fox News and defended his argument. This is part of what he said.
RUDY GIULIANI: The danger to a black child in America is not a white police officer. That is going happen less than 1% of the time. The danger to a black child — with my child, the danger is another black. 93% of the times, they are going to be killed by another black. And the idea that whites do not go to jail for killing blacks? First of all, only about 3% of whites kill blacks. They go to jail at approximately the same percentage as blacks go to jail, the conviction rate is exactly the same. The difference is, it’s a very rare exception when a white kills a black.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s former Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Your response, Michael Eric Dyson?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Well, first of all, as Disraeli said, There’s "lies, damned lies, and statistics." And we end up having statistical myopia. What I didn’t get a chance to say because I’ve got a host who there who, understandably, who’s concerned about keeping the peace on the panel, so I’m being waived down by the host and hollered at, so to speak, by my opponent. You don’t get a chance under those conditions, unlike right here, to say what you have to say.
One of the things that is necessary to say is that 84% of white people who are killed are murdered by other white people. Why aren’t we outraged by white on white crime? Why aren’t we talking about the vicious and insidious decline of moral stature in white America? Why aren’t we talking about pathologies of white culture that lead to meth labs being generated on campuses or the decline in moral imagination as exhibited in pop stars who are decried from pulpits across America in white culture? So, we could develop a kind of tablet of demonology against white America, which would be ridiculous, because the problem is deeper and more profound than that. Intraracial violence in groups is endemic in America. So, people kill where they live, they commit crime where they live. If you want integrated killing you have to have integrated communities; tongue-in-cheek there. The irony is the fact that Mr. Giuliani is unconscious of that, will not speak directly to that, because it would throw him off the scent of the trail of demonizing African-American people.
Now, black people, themselves are quite concerned about death in their own communities —- in our own communities. Just yesterday here in D.C., a woman was on television, a black woman, asking for help in solving the murder of her son. They had a videotape or a recording of a man going into a building and then rushing out who was thought to be the murderer of her son. And I think it was an African-American man, and there was no like, oh, no, let’s exempt it from moral critique because he is a black person. We are as outraged as anybody else by so-called black on black crime. We are enraged when black people kill black people. But, lets not divorce the killing of black people by black people from broader cultural imaginations that have demonized black people. Black people watch a lot of television and consume a lot of pop-culture. The suspicious and skepticism of black identity pervades black culture as well. So, in one sense -—
AMY GOODMAN: Michael Eric Dyson, we have less than a minute on the satellite. You raise in your column the issue of Bill Cosby. And I was wondering if you could just end on your concern about what has come out about him, the raping and mugging of the series of women over 40 years.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: It’s evil. It is horrible. It should be talked about. It should be dealt with. I was demonized when I dealt with it ten years ago in my book. Many black people waved me down and sent me away saying that you’re wrong by attacking a great figure like this. But, what is hurtful to me, is that while he has been accused of this raping and mugging, which is absolutely untoward —
AMY GOODMAN: — and then drugging.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: — and evil, at the same time, African-American women were demonized by him in his own language before and they were not protected. So, both and, not either or.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Michael Eric Dyson, I thank you very much for being with us, University Professor of Sociology at Georgetown University. We’ll link to your piece in The New York Times_, Where Do We Go After Ferguson??r=0 When we come back, we go to Cairo, Egypt, to talk about dropping the charges against former president Mubarak. Stay with us.
|
As Darren Wilson resigns from the Ferguson police force, protests continue across the country from shopping malls to football stadiums over a grand jury’s decision not to indict Wilson for shooting dead Michael Brown. Over the past week, there have been demonstrations in more than 150 cities — on public roadways, in shopping malls and government buildings. On Saturday, protesters kicked off a 120 mile, seven-day march dubbed the "Journey for Justice" from Ferguson to Jefferson City, the capital of Missouri. Black Friday was also a day of action as activists staged protests at retailers across the country. We are joined by two activists to discuss the week’s protests and what comes next for the movement against police brutality: In Oakland, Alicia Garza, co-creator of "Black Lives Matter" and one of the 14 people arrested for shutting down the BART transportation system on Friday; and in New York City, Dante Barry, an organizer at the Center for Media Justice and Million Hoodies Movement for Justice, who participated in last week’s protests.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Protests are continuing in Ferguson, Missouri and across the country over a grand jury’s decision not to indict Police Officer Darren Wilson for killing unarmed black teenager Michael Brown. Wilson resigned from the Ferguson Police Department, Saturday. Over the past week, there have been demonstrations in over than 150 cities, on public roadways, in shopping malls, and government buildings. On Saturday, protesters kicked off a 127-day march titled "Journey for Justice" from Ferguson to Jefferson City, the capital of Missouri. This is NAACP President Cornell William Brooks.
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: It’s a matter of turning anger into action. Funneling that anger and bringing about justice. That’s what we’re seeking to do. So, we are marching from Ferguson to Jefferson City, Mike Brown’s hometown, to the hometown of the Governor. This is a nonviolent March, it is a peaceful march, and we’re looking to enlist and engage people of goodwill all across Missouri, all across this country.
AMY GOODMAN: Black Friday was also a day of action as activists staged protests in shopping malls across the country. In St. Louis, two shopping malls shut down after protesters staged a mass die-in. In Seattle, police arrested five people after protesters marched in two shopping malls. Activist chained shut two doors at one mall staged a die-in at another. In New York City, seven people were arrested after a Black Friday action outside Macy’s flagship store. A day earlier seven others were arrested for trying to disrupt the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade. Sergio Uzurin took part in the Macy’s Black Friday protest.
SERGIO UZURIN: Voicing your opinion is not enough. You have to disrupt business as usual for this to happen. That is the only thing that has ever made change. It is the real way democracies functions. So, we are here on the busiest shopping day of the year in one of the commercial centers of the world to let people — remind people that lives matter before profits. You can’t have profit without lives.
AMY GOODMAN: In Oakland demonstrators briefly shut down a BART train station by chaining themselves to a train. 14 people were arrested. Mollie Costello is Director of the Alan Blueford Center for Justice.
MOLLIE COSTELLO: We are interrupting Black Friday commerce specifically to send a very important message, which is that black lives matter. We want to send this message in the wake of the in the decision not to indict with the Ferguson verdict, not indict Darren Wilson, the cop who killed Mike Brown. We’re sending the message that his life matters, all black lives matter, and that it is not up to the cops to decide differently.
AMY GOODMAN: On Sunday, demonstrators temporarily shut down part of the busy Interstate 395 highway that runs through Washington, D.C. Members of the St. Louis Rams also took part in an act of protest. Ahead of Sunday’s football game, a group of players entered the stadium with their hands raised overhead in the "hands up, don’t shoot" pose in a show of solidarity with Mike Brown. Protests are expected to continue today. The group Ferguson Action has called for a nationwide protest walkout at schools and places of business at noon Central time.
We are joined now by two guests were in the streets this weekend. Alicia Garza is co-creator of Black Lives Matter, one of the 14 people arrested for shutting down the BART transportation system on Black Friday. She is also the Special Projects director at the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Dante Barry is with us, organizer at Center for Media Justice & Million Hoodies. He participated in last weeks actions in New York to shut-down the FDR and the Lincoln Tunnel as well as the Black Friday protests Macy’s We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Dante, let’s begin with you right here. Talk about what happened on Black Friday.
DANTE BARRY: So, a group of organizations, Million Hoodies, Rockaway Youth Task Force, some students from Columbia University and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, put together a protest in response to Black Friday. It was called Blackout Black Friday. We’re targeting Macy’s, the largest shopping center in New York City and also has a history of racial profiling around black people. We were targeting and we shut down Harold Square, Times Square, had about 1500 folks that turned out just for this one action at 1:00 p.m. About seven arrests. It was amazing to see so many people come out and really ready to turned things up.
AMY GOODMAN: And Alicia Garza on the other coast in California, what were you doing in Oakland?
ALICIA GARZA: We shut down the West Oakland BART station. Our intention was to shut it down for 4.5 hours, which is both the amount of time that Mike Brown’s body lay on the street after he was killed by Officer Darren Wilson and also it represented four hours, 28 minutes; 28 minutes represents how every 28 hours, a black person in this country is murdered for security officers, police officers, or vigilantes.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you go forward from here? What are the plans of protest organizers like you, Alicia Garza?
ALICIA GARZA: Our plan is to continue to elevate the message that black lives matter and that all black lives matter. It’s really important to us that folks understand this is a national movement, that’s what is happening in Ferguson is happening in communities all over the country, and that the sleeping giant has been awoken. So folks who have been enduring police violence and police terror in state sanctioned violence for decades are now standing up to say, enough is enough, not one more Darren Wilson, not one more Mike Brown. And so, I think what we can expect to see if continued, and escalated protests around the country until justice is served.
AMY GOODMAN: Alecia, you shut down the BART system for four hours. BART system, of courser, well known to people around the country because of a killing a few years ago, the killing of Oscar Grant at the BART station at Fruitvale. How did you shutdown the station you shut down? Which one did you shut down?
ALICIA GARZA: So, we shut down the West Oakland BART station and we did it in a few ways. So, one way was that we had about 200 people outside of the BART station who held a healing ceremony. And then inside, with a group of folks, including myself, who chained ourselves to the train to make sure that it could not move. We know that black Friday is one of the largest days of commerce. We also know that black folks spend a lot of money. We wanted to disrupt the system, and we wanted to make sure that there was no more business as usual until Mike Brown’s family and families like John Crawford’s and Jordan Davis’ and Renisha McBride’s no longer have to look at empty seat at the table.
AMY GOODMAN: And Dante, what you’re calling for now and what groups here in the greater New York area and how much are coordinating with groups, for example, like Alicia’s in California?
DANTE BARRY: Absolutely, so, one, we are definitely coordinating. There are a number of groups coordinating that are coordinating efforts and responses to not only the situation in Ferguson with the Darren Wilson case, but also the impeding case around Eric Garner, which is about to release a grand jury decision very shortly in December. And of course, I think —
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, the Eric Garner case, explain what happened this summer in Staten Island.
DANTE BARRY: So, I think this goes back to Alecia’s point about every 28 hours we’re seeing a black person being killed and here in New York, we saw the murder of Eric Garner, a black man who was choked — was given a legal chokehold in New York City, in Staten Island by a number of police officers. And one, in particular, Daniel Pantaleo, who is the person that’s up for potential indictment. And it was mismanaged in terms of how they responded and also of just actually, like, this whole idea of broken windows policing, which a whole other issue. It’s a cousin of stop and frisk. Being arrested for having "loose cigarettes."
AMY GOODMAN: And he was taken down, 43-year-old father of six, I think. Taken down in this chokehold as he said, "I can’t breathe" something like 11 times. The only reason we know this is because a young man was put on his cell phone, video, and started to film. And once the coroner said, homicide, the young man who filmed this was arrested, as was his wife.
DANTE BARRY: Right, right.
AMY GOODMAN: The only arrest in this case.
DANTE BARRY: The only arrest, only arrest right. Which I think opens up a lot of questions, and I think you’re seeing this particularly when we talk about surveillance communities of color, when you’re looking at surveillance of folks that the tactic of how we can use communication and technology as a platform to really document these instances, but still, it’s being used against us and harming us by more policing more incarcerations.
AMY GOODMAN: How did the police respond here? I mean, you have this situation, while we were awaiting the verdict in Ferguson, of yet another young African-American man being killed in a housing project in New York by police. Police Officer Bratton immediately announcing the man was completely innocent and that the officer had accidentally fired in a stairwell of the housing project.
DANTE BARRY: I think, while — it’s interesting for last week with the protests, the police officers had been very eerily calm. And I think it’s been — it’s because of the amount of tension that’s happening across the country, right? And the cultural intervention that civil disobedience provides in terms of really altering the narrative around the police versus the community. It is really about community empowerment. So, I think when we look at some of the responses by NYPD, it has been very, very calm in relationship to other protests that have happened across the country.
AMY GOODMAN: And Alicia Garza, the response of the police in the Bay Area and what you know a protests throughout the rest of the country?
ALICIA GARZA: What I know is that for the last 108 or so days, that police have been faced with escalating protests and that police have acted differently in different places. I know for us in Oakland, we were greeted by riot cops and there was a group of 14 of us, right? I know for folks in Ferguson, they’re constantly being greeted by riot cops, all for continuing to exercise their right to protest. And so, I think what we’re seeing is a real disproportionate use of policing, particularly in moments where there is demonstrations against the police, right? I think the other thing that we can also just count on is that we know and the police know that eyes are watching them all of the country, so that maybe one reason why some responses are calmer than others. But, we also have to take into account the responses that don’t make it on the national news. I know when folks were protesting in Oakland, there was tear gas that was launched, we saw sound cannons on the streets, right? We have not seen that since the Oscar Grant protest in 2009. So, again, I think what we’re seeing is a real use of military weapons, a real show of force by the police department. For us in particular, we were treated well. And, again, this was during the daytime, with hundreds and hundreds of observers. But, we do need to keep in mind what happens when the TV cameras aren’t rolling and folks are demonstrating in the street. There are a lot of instances that we’re hearing about of police brutality, like what happened in Chattanooga, Tennessee, when a few folks who were protesting around the national day of action against police brutality were brutalized by police in Chattanooga.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, President Obama today at the White House holding meetings. They’re going to be evaluating the program where they give military equipment to towns and cities, police departments. And also talking about the issue of distrust between law enforcement and communities of color. What are your thoughts about this and overall, President Obama’s response as well as Eric Holder going around the country to deal with this issue?
DANTE BARRY: Well, first, I will say that the president’s response has been weak up until this point. I think, as I mentioned before, the cultural intervention that civil disobedience in the active resistance is providing is building momentum all across this country. And I think that the president and the White House are hearing and seeing that momentum. So, folks that are coming from Ferguson, folks all across this country, young civil rights leaders, are going to be able to meet with him today to really discuss some of these — those challenges. But I think when we look at the reason why this is happening under his watch, I think it just goes back to this idea that we’re not post-racial, and there is this false assumption that we are post-racial, even with a black president. But, this is happening on his watch, so it is more of a scrutiny around the issue of the seat of the presidency in general.
AMY GOODMAN: And Alicia Garza, your last comment? I mean, the significance of the federal government, of the president himself, at time when questions are being raised about whether there would be federal civil rights charges brought against the officer; many saying it is unlikely.
ALICIA GARZA: I think it is unlikely. And unfortunately, I think we that need to see our president and our attorney general take aggressive action to make sure that lives are protected in communities like Ferguson and communities like Oakland. We’ve seen a stunning lack of response by our federal government by way of intervention in the tragedies that are happening across the country. And of course, we would love to see President Obama and U.S. Attorney General Eric holder step up even more. I know that folks are calling for national plan of action to be of limited, and we support that demand 100%. We want to see more aggressive intervention from our president and from our U.S. Attorney General, not in the form of tanks and riot gear, but in the form of legislation and policy that addresses systemic inequities that are based on race in our country. We can no longer ignore that racism permeates every system within our society. And until we address those issues, protests and uprisings will continue around the country. So, we do call on President Obama and Eric Holder not just to hold closed-door meetings, but in fact to continue to empower the young leaders that are showing us all how it is that we change society one heart and one mind at a time.
AMY GOODMAN: Alicia Garza, I want to thank you for being with us from Oakland, Co-creator of Black Lives Matter. And Dante Barry here in New York, organizer at The Center for Media Justice. This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’ll be joined by Professor Michael Eric Dyson who asks, "Where Do We Go from Ferguson?" Stay with us.
|
Former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak was cleared of ordering the killing of hundreds of protesters during the uprising against his regime almost four years ago. The decision, which came on a technicality, means he will walk free after finishing a prison term on corruption charges, possibly within a few months. The court also cleared Mubarak’s former interior minister, Habib al-Adly, and six aides. Several thousand protesters gathered in Cairo’s Tahrir Square on Saturday to protest the verdict, leading to a crackdown by state forces in which two people died. We are joined by two guests: In Cairo, Democracy Now! correspondent Sharif Abdel Kouddous; and in New York City, Egyptian journalist and human rights activist Hossam Bahgat.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to Egypt. The Egyptian government says it won’t pursue further legal action against former president Hosni Mubarak following a court decision to drop all remaining charges against him. On Saturday, Mubarak was cleared of ordering the killing of hundreds of protesters during the uprising against his regime almost four years ago. The decision, which came on a technicality, means he’ll walk free after finishing a prison term on corruption charges, possibly within a few months. Judge Mahmoud Kamel al-Rashidi announced the verdict.
JUDGE AL-RASHIDI: [Translated] The court dismisses criminal charges against Mohammed Hosni Mubarak in connection with the killing of protesters in 2011 because the prosecution issued an order on the 23rd of March, 2011, stating that he could not stand trial for these charges in case number 1227 Kasr El Nil .
AMY GOODMAN: Shortly after the verdict, Mubarak spoke to a local television station via telephone and defended his 30-year rule, saying "I felt I did nothing wrong at all. I was waiting to find out what they will come up with this time. It was an innocent verdict. I did nothing wrong at all." Mubarak is being held in a military hospital, is expected to serve at least a few more months of this sentence. Soon after the decision was announced, police used tear gas to disperse thousands of protesters who gathered in Cairo’s Tahrir Square. At least one person was reported killed. Many protesters expressed anger at the decision, this is Islam Hafez.
ISLAM HAFEZ: [Translated] I am very excited because missed participating in the first January 25th protests. But my friends and brothers were killed in it. When I heard that Mubarak got innocent, I was shocked.
AMY GOODMAN: To find out more about the significance of the decision, we’re joined by two guests, Sharif Abdel Kouddous is with us, Democracy Now! correspondent in Cairo, and Hossam Bahgat, is here in New York, and Egyptian journalist and human rights activist who is the founder of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights. He is a visiting scholar at Columbia Journalism School. We welcome you both to Democracy Now!. Sharif, let’s go to you in Cairo first. Tell us what’s happening now in the streets and the response overall to the innocent verdict for Mubarak.
SHARIF ADBEL KOUDDOUS: Well, as you mentioned Amy, there were protests the day of the verdict, just outside of Tahrir square. Tahrir itself was closed by army tanks and APCs and police armored trucks and barbed wire, but a few thousand people did gather on the outskirts protesting the verdict. There was palpable anger. And two people were killed when the police attacked the protesters with bird shot and live ammunition. One of the two reportedly shot six times. And the following day, yesterday, Universities across the country held protests. Students have been, really, one of the epicenters of dissent following the oust of Mohamed Morsi last year, and they continue that protesting the decision yesterday.
But, the message to many Egyptians with this verdict was that justice has not been served. The moment, August 3, 2011, when Mubarak first appeared in court, it was his first public appearance since being ousted following the popular uprising against him. The only reason he was in court was because of mass mobilizations calling for him to be tried. It was a seminal moment in Egyptian history. He was there behind bars listening to the charges against him. Now, less than 3.5 years later, it has been reversed, erased. And, really, I think while many people weren’t that surprised by the ruling, given the nature of the judiciary we have seen over the past year, given the nature of the political situation in Egypt right now, many, I think, were surprised by their capacity to still feel anger and indignation and to be disappointed and upset by this verdict. To see not only Mubarak but Habib el-Adly, his Interior Minister, and the top police chiefs all be acquitted and basically no one being held responsible after dozens — scores of police officers have been acquitted in trials as well, hardly anyone being held responsible for the killing of nearly a thousand people in this uprising. We’re supposed to chalk it up to something like mass suicide. So, it’s a very difficult moment, and again, I think a dark one in Egypt’s history.
AMY GOODMAN: And the way the media has covered this, Sharif?
SHARIF ADBEL KOUDDOUS: Well, there’s been a surprising reaction. A lot of the media — there has been, even within sympathetic channels that are sympathetic to the Sisi regime, newspapers, there’s been a lot of anger about it as well. The main refrain we have been hearing is, so who is the killer? Because everyone has gotten off Scott free. And we saw some of these anchors really questioning legal scholars about with this decision means. There’s been quite an angry tone. Mubarak is fair game for most people. It’s safe for a lot of these anchors to speak out against him. But still, it was a change of tone from a lot of the very [sycophantic] kind of coverage that we’ve seen. Obviously there was that kind of coverage as well, and Mubarak himself, really shockingly, was called in to one of these television stations right after the verdict was announced, and he said that he had done nothing wrong during his term. He said he had laughed in 2012 when the life sentence against him was handed down, which of course, has been overturned. There has been two kinds of reactions in the media as well.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Hossam Bahgat, could you talk about the significance of this decision? Does he walk out now? I mean, we’ve only actually seen him laying down. He is always brought into court in a gurney. Him, his sons, and the people around him, as Sharif described.
HOSSAM BAHGAT: If the authorities decide to apply the law, then, yes, he should be free to go now. If authorities decide that perhaps he should spend a few more weeks until the streets are quieter, I think he is going to show a lot of understanding, given he is not exactly in prison. He has been in a military hospital for months now. But really, the effect of the verdict is not going to rest on where he stays now. The effect has already been achieved. The judge, by exonerating everyone, I mean, made it very clear, of course, that this is not about a body of evidence that has been examined. Not about the legal arguments that have been leveled by the parties. This is about writing for history, really. And at some point, I mean, the judge said that the court decision is about 1400 pages and he circulated a 200-page summary, 280 page summary, of his decision. Many, of course, have been going through that over the last two days. It’s really remarkable. As Sharif says, we’re barely surprised by anything the Egyptian judiciary does now. Which is very sad. We’re talking about a court system that is over 150 years old, that used to be the, really, court system of the arab world, of the region. But, what we have seen over the last year and half, two years, and especially with regard to the criminal justice system, has been appalling. But even under those circumstances and according to those standards, this decision is really outstanding.
AMY GOODMAN: He was acquitted of killing protesters.
HOSSAM BAHGAT: Initially, the charge was that he had ordered or failed to stop the killing of protesters. The judge decided to throw out that charge on a technicality, saying that prosecutors did not follow the right procedure in adding him to that ongoing case in 2011. But really, what’s truly astonishing about this decision is that after the judge is done exonerating everyone and addressing every charge, for about eight pages then, the judge goes into what he calls, literally, the historical context of this verdict. He says, again literally he says, so, I’m not going to rule on the merits of these charges because of these procedural errors, but let me tell you what really happened in 2011. And then he goes on to repeat everything that the propaganda machine of Sisi and the current regime and the Mubarak people have been advancing about a global conspiracy. He literally says the axis of evil of the United States, Qatar, Turkey, Israel, and Iran, came together, collaborated with the Muslim Brotherhood, there was a group of people that was flown abroad to receive training in civic disobedience, there were people that created front human rights organizations. All of them came together, they agitated angry people. Some police officers may have chosen to shoot at protesters, not following any orders, and that is when the Muslim Brotherhood used that mayhem to shoot at both the police and the protesters, killing all of these people. For eight pages, this is the argument he advances. He doesn’t forget, of course, to throw in, as we know, the United States finances the Muslim Brotherhood in order to destabilize the country every time we go toward stability. That’s the signed summary by the judge that has been circulated for the last two days.
AMY GOODMAN: So, where does the country go from here?
HOSSAM BAHGAT: It depends really. I think what we’ve seen in terms of the reaction, especially on campuses where — we’re still in the middle of school year, or an academic year — shows that the degree of confidence that the current regime has was perhaps a bit overstated. There has been a lot of anger. Even, as Sharif mentions, even the press that is pro-regime, pro-military, seem to have been shocked that not even Mubarak’s interior minister has been punished. I mean, punish anyone. Throw something at these angry people. But, nothing. We may see one last appeal by the public prosecutor if they decide to appeal these not guilty sentences, in which case the next trial is going to be conducted by the country’s Supreme Court, the court of court of cassation.
AMY GOODMAN: We just have 20 seconds. Sharif, the response in the streets and the protests in Tahrir? What this means for the movements for democracy?
SHARIF ADBEL KOUDDOUS: Well, there’s very little space for any kind of dissent, any kind of opposition right now in Egypt. You risk years in prison, you risk your life by going down on the streets. The students seem to be the last of epicenter center of dissent, and that is continuing. But, we will have to wait and see how this goes forward. This really portrays an alarmingly selective justice system in Egypt. The day after this ruling, 25 Muslim Brotherhood leaders got three years in prison for chanting in a trial. A week before, 78 miners got two to five years in prison for protesting. We have the leaders, the most prominent activists of the revolution that forced Mubarak out of office —
AMY GOODMAN: Sharif, we’re going to have to leave it there. Sharif Abdel Kouddous.
|
Darren Wilson Resigns From Ferguson Police Force Without Severance
Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson has resigned days after a grand jury elected not to indict him for the killing of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown. Ferguson Mayor James Knowles said Wilson will leave the police force with no severance.
Ferguson Mayor James Knowles: "The city manager has accepted Officer Wilson’s resignation and, as of yesterday, Officer Wilson is no longer an employee with the City of Ferguson. There is no severance agreement with Officer Wilson and the City of Ferguson. The City of Ferguson will not be making a severance payment to Officer Wilson."
Protests Against Grand Jury Decision, Police Brutality Continue in Ferguson, Cities Nationwide
Officer Darren Wilson’s resignation comes amidst continued protests in Ferguson and around the country over the grand jury decision. Over the past week, there have been demonstrations in more than 150 cities — on public roadways, in shopping malls and government buildings. On Saturday, protesters kicked off a 120 mile, seven-day march dubbed the "Journey for Justice" from Ferguson to Jefferson City, the capital of Missouri. Black Friday was also a day of action as activists staged protests at shopping centers across the country. In St. Louis, two malls shut down after protesters staged a mass die-in. In Seattle police arrested five people after protesters marched in two malls. At the Pacific Place mall activists chained shut two doors. At the Westlake Centers a mass die-in was staged. In New York City, seven people were arrested after a Black Friday action outside Macy’s flagship store. A day earlier seven others were arrested for trying to disrupt the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade. On Sunday, demonstrators temporarily shut down part of the busy Interstate 395 highway that runs through Washington, D.C. In Oakland, demonstrators briefly shut down a BART train station by chaining themselves to a train.
St. Louis Rams Players Display "Hands Up, Don’t Shoot" Pose in Pre-Game Entry
Members of the National Football League’s St. Louis Rams also took part in an act of protest. Ahead of Sunday’s football game, a group of players entered the stadium with their hands raised overhead in the "hands up, don’t shoot" pose in a show of solidarity with Michael Brown. The St. Louis Police Officers Association has complained to the NFL, calling for the players to be disciplined.
Egypt Won’t Seek Further Legal Action Against Mubarak After Charges Dropped
The Egyptian government says it will not pursue further legal action against former President Hosni Mubarak following a court decision to drop all remaining charges against him. On Saturday, Mubarak was cleared of ordering the killing of hundreds of protesters during the uprising against his regime almost four years ago. The decision, which came on a technicality, means he will walk free after finishing a prison term on corruption charges, possibly within a few months. In a statement, President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi said Egypt must now "look to the future" and "cannot ever go back." Several thousand protesters gathered in Cairo’s Tahrir Square on Saturday to protest the verdict, leading to a crackdown by state forces. At least two people were killed.
New Clashes in Hong Kong After Pro-Democracy Activists Surround Government Buildings
Clashes have broken out in Hong Kong after pro-democracy protesters escalated their campaign for free elections. Thousands of demonstrators surrounded government buildings on Sunday, forcing their temporary closure. Police responded with pepper spray and raids on the massive street encampment where thousands have stayed for weeks to seek an open vote for the city leader.
France Sets 2-Year Deadline to Recognize Palestine if Talks Fail
France has set a two-year deadline to recognize Palestinian statehood unless a negotiated solution is reached. The French initiative calls for recognizing the state of Palestine unless Israel agrees to allow Palestinian statehood through negotiations. The French member of parliament who drafted the measure, Elisabeth Guigou, said the aim is to advance the two-state solution that Israel claims to support.
Elisabeth Guigou: "We are not presumptuous to the point of thinking that our resolution will make peace in the Middle East, but we hope that it will contribute to a movement for peace that says we cannot just continue to be with the status-quo, the status-quo is very dangerous. We want to help also those who in Israel say, 'we must act for a two-state solution,' that’s what we want to do as well."
The French parliament is set to hold a formal vote on Tuesday. Britain, Spain, and Sweden have advanced similar measures over the past two months.
Boko Haram Kills Dozens in New Attacks Across Nigeria
The militant group Boko Haram has carried out several attacks in Nigeria. Earlier today, a twin blast was reported in the area where dozens were killed in a market bombing last week. This follows an attack that killed at least 120 people on Friday at a mosque in the northern city of Kano. Scores were also reportedly killed on Saturday when Boko Haram fighters raided a town in Borno state.
Annual U.N. Climate Summit Opens in Peru
The annual United Nations climate summit opens today in Lima, Peru. Diplomats from around the world are hoping to reach a draft agreement on a measure that would limit the greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming. It would then be finalized at talks in Paris, France, next year. On the eve of the summit, activists from the group Greenpeace projected a message onto the historic Machu Picchu site calling for the use of renewable energy.
Martin Kaiser, Greenpeace Climate Chief: "Greenpeace is calling on the world leaders to transfer the energy system away from coal and oil towards 100 percent renewable energy future by mid-century."
Tune in to Democracy Now! when we broadcast from the U.N. climate summit in Lima all next week.
U.N. Torture Panel Criticizes U.S. Practices
The United Nations Committee Against Torture has issued a report criticizing a wide range of U.S. practices. The panel’s "Concluding Observations" follow a series of hearings in Geneva last month. On criminal justice, the report calls for several reforms including accountability for police brutality and for the targeting of people of color. On torture and imprisonment, the report criticizes the White House’s refusal to prosecute George W. Bush administration officials for torture and to provide redress to their victims. It also faults the United States for the indefinite imprisonment of foreign nationals at Guantánamo Bay and calls for an end to force-feedings.
U.N. Experts Urge Full Release of CIA Torture Report; Senate Dems Break With Admin on Censorship
The U.N. torture panel also calls on the Obama administration to release the Senate report on CIA torture "in the most complete and comprehensible form possible." This comes as Senate Democrats have accused the White House of trying to censor key portions. The Senate Intelligence Committee and administration officials have been in talks for months on releasing a summary of the 6,000-page report, which details the torture of foreign prisoners under the administration of George W. Bush. According to the New York Times, Senate Democrats say the White House has sided with the CIA in "trying to thwart negotiations over the report’s release." In deference to CIA wishes, the White House "has blocked Democrats from informing the public as to how much torture went on in the previous administration, and how poorly it worked." The administration also wants to hide the pseudonyms of the CIA officers involved in torture, including some who received promotions.
Gunman Shot Dead in Austin After Firing on Mexican Consulate, Other Buildings
Police in Austin, Texas, have killed a man who opened fire on major downtown buildings. The gunman, identified as 49-year-old Larry McQuilliams, fired over 100 rounds at the Mexican consulate, the federal courthouse, and the Austin Police Department headquarters before he was killed. Police say McQuilliams also tried to set the Mexican consulate on fire.
Ray Rice Wins Reinstatement to NFL After Challenging Indefinite Suspension
Former Baltimore Ravens player Ray Rice has won an appeal of his indefinite suspension from the National Football League. Rice was barred in September following the emergence of a video showing him punching his then-fiancée, now wife, in a casino elevator. The NFL has repeatedly said it did not see the video until it was released publicly and that Rice had misled league executives when he was initially suspended for just two games. But U.S. District Judge Barbara Jones ruled that Rice did not lie or mislead the league. The decision has raised new questions about NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s handling of the case. Rice is now free to sign with any team.
Missing Ohio State Player With Concussion History Found Dead of Suicide
A missing football player at Ohio State University has been found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Kosta Karageorge had been missing since Wednesday. He had a history of concussions as a football player and wrestler, prompting speculation his suicide is linked to concussion-related brain trauma. Karageorge had sent his mother a text message shortly before his disappearance apologizing for being an "embarrassment" as a result of the head injuries.
Walmart Workers Stage Black Friday Protests for Higher Wages, Stable Hours
Walmart workers have held Black Friday protests against the retail giant for a third straight year. Demonstrators with the group OUR Walmart staged demonstrations outside Walmart stores on Thursday and Friday in a call for $15-an-hour wage and stable, full-time work hours. Hundreds of people took part in a protest at a Walmart in Washington, D.C.
Ned Mesal: "We are here to let Walmart know that it’s not treating its workforce right. It doesn’t pay us enough to live on. It doesn’t give us the respect and dignity we deserve. It doesn’t give us enough hours to live on to get a decent paycheck."
Rev. Grayland Hagler: "We are here to demand that Walmart, Walmart, greedy Walmart share it’s resources with workers, respect workers like they should be respected."
____________________________
207 W 25th Street, 11th Floor
New York, New York 10001 United States
____________________________
No comments:
Post a Comment