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The United States and NATO are openly accusing Russia of sending combat forces into Ukraine as tensions continue to mount. According to the United Nations, nearly 2,600 people have been killed in eastern Ukraine since April in fighting between Ukrainian forces and separatist rebels sympathetic to Russia. On Thursday, at least 15 civilians were killed when Ukrainian forces shelled the rebel-held city of Donetsk. Meanwhile, a new Human Rights Watch report accuses the rebels of arbitrarily detaining civilians and subjecting them to torture, degrading treatment, and forced labor. On Thursday, NATO released satellite images that it says show Russian artillery, vehicles and troops in and around eastern Ukraine. We are joined from London by the Guardian’s Jonathan Steele, the organization’s former Moscow correspondent and author of many books, including "Eternal Russia: Yeltsin, Gorbachev, and the Mirage of Democracy."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The United States and NATO are openly accusing Russia of sending combat forces into Ukraine as tensions continue to mount between the two countries following the coup in February that toppled Ukraine’s elected government. According to the United Nations, nearly 2600 people have been killed in Eastern Ukraine since April and fighting between Ukrainian forces and separatist rebels so pathetic to Russia. That figure does not include the 298 victims of the Malaysian airlines plane crash.
AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday, at least 15 civilians were killed when Ukrainian forces shelled the rebel-held city of Donetsk. Meanwhile, a new Human Rights Watch report accuses the rebels of arbitrarily detaining civilians and subjecting them to torture, degrading treatment, and forced labor. On Thursday, President Obama addressed the crisis after NATO released satellite images they say show Russian artillery, vehicles, and troops in and around Eastern Ukraine.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I just spoke with Chancellor Merkel of Germany on the situation in Ukraine. We agree, if there was ever any doubt, that Russia is responsible for the violence in Eastern Ukraine, the violence is encouraged by Russia, the separatists are trained by Russia, they are armed by Russia, they are funded by Russia. Russia has deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. And the new images of Russian forces inside Ukraine make that plain for the world to see.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: President Obama also announced Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko would visit the United States next month. Poroshenko was elected in May to replace Viktor Yanukovych who was ousted in the February coup. Ambassadors from the 28 NATO countries and Ukraine are holding an emergency meeting today. At the United Nations, Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin accused the Ukrainian government of waging war against its own people by attacking cities in Eastern Ukraine.
VITALY CHURKIN: The current escalation in the Southeast of Ukraine is a direct consequence of the reckless policy of Kiev, which is directing war against its own people. With the support and under the influence of a number of states Kiev authorities have torpedoed all political agreements on resolving the crisis in the Ukraine.
AMY GOODMAN: To talk about the crisis we go to London where we are joined by Jonathan Steele, the former Moscow correspondent for The Guardian. He has is the author of many books including, "Eternal Russia: Yeltsin, Gorbachev, and the Mirage of Democracy." Jonathan Steele, welcome back to Democracy Now! What do you think is most important to understand about the crisis in Ukraine right now?
JONATHAN STEELE: I think it is that Russia is trying to prevent Ukraine joining NATO, which is, of course, what some people in the West, particularly in the Baltic countries and Poland and sort of neocons in Washington, would like it to do. I think the situation could be genetically escalated it President Obama now and at the big NATO summit that’s going to be held in Britain next week would say that the U.S. respects the current strategic position of Ukraine, which is nonalignment, and would also say that there is no prospect of Ukraine joining NATO for the next at least 10 or 20 years. I think that would dramatically escalate the crisis. Putin would be immediately impressed and would be willing to make the concessions that are necessary.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Jonathan Steele, what do you make of the fact that it has only been a couple of days since the Ukrainian President and Putin had a meeting that seemed to be — show promises of de-escalate in the entire crisis?
JONATHAN STEELE: I think it shows that they didn’t actually show promises of de-escalating the crisis. I presume that Putin was very disappointed with Poroshenko’s line in the private meetings and he’s decided that he has to escalate the situation. You mentioned what Obama had said about Chancellor Merkel in his speech just a few hours ago. What he didn’t mention was that Merkel has said publicly just in the last few days that there has to be a cease-fire, there has to be a political, not a military, solution and that Russia’s interest cannot be ignored. This is very sensible stuff from Chancellor Merkel. Unfortunately, has not echoed publicly at least by President Obama and other NATO leaders. So, that’s what I say is really important is to push for cease-fire, which the Russians have constantly called for, and get political negotiations which would guarantee the nonalignment in the future of Ukraine.
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking to reporters Thursday, President Obama said the U.S. will collaborate with its NATO allies in dealing with the Ukraine crisis, but he ruled out military action against Russia. This is what he said.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We will continue to stand firm with our allies and partners that what is happening is wrong, that there is a solution that allows Ukraine and Russia to live peacefully. But it is not in the cards for us to see a military confrontation between Russia and the United States in this region. Keep in mind, however, that I am about to go to a NATO conference. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, but a number of the states that are close by are. And we take our Article Five commitments to defend each other very seriously.
AMY GOODMAN: I was wondering, Jonathan Steele, if you could respond to that and also in the U.S. media, you rarely hear Russia’s side. What are Russia’s interests?
JONATHAN STEELE: Well, I think it was interesting what he said about NATO. But, again, he missed the crucial point, which is that he should have said that he respects the nonalignment of Ukraine and sees no value in it joining NATO. Imagine what would happen if Canada or Mexico decided to join an anti-U.S. alliance? Obviously, the U.S. would be concerned. Russia has legitimate concerns about the expansion of NATO. We’ve already heard just in the other day the Secretary-General of NATO Anders Fogh Rasmussen was saying that NATO is now going to preposition stocks in Eastern Europe, and bring equipment in and have bases there. It is only further provocation to Moscow. There’s a battle going on, clearly, within NATO between hawks and doves and Obama is sitting on the fence. He should come down the side of the doves and make his position clear, which is similar I think to what Merkel has done. But, even she has not dared yet publicly to come out and say she does not want Ukraine to join NATO.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Jonathan Steele, what do you make of the media coverage in the West or the lack of media coverage over the carnage and civilian casualties in Eastern Ukraine as a result of the Ukrainian forces advancing?
JONATHAN STEELE: I mean, I’m very glad that in your report, at least, you put in the point that the U.N. has come out saying that the 2600 people, civilians, have been killed. That’s more than were killed in Gaza in the recently month-long Israeli offensive. It is a huge humanitarian disaster and crisis going on. It is hardly ever mentioned in the Western media. These are U.N. figures. And as you also pointed out correctly, the U.S. says the majority of those casualties are caused by the Ukrainian army against civilians because they are trying to capture huge cities Donetsk, Luhansk where there are hundreds of thousands of people. Many have fled, but there are still hundreds of thousands remaining. Russia tried to highlight that whole issue two or three weeks ago when it sent this humanitarian convoy from Russia into Ukraine. And what happened? The Ukrainians immediately said this is the pretext for an invasion, this is an invasion. Russians than allowed people to look into those convoys, the OSCE looked into it, the Ukrainian border guards looked into it, Western journalists looked into it. There is absolutely no sign of any military potential at all. It was simply humanitarian supplies. And eventually, it was allowed in — well, it wasn’t allowed in, the Russians drove it in because the Ukrainians refused to give the paperwork that was necessary even though it was in no way military. So, Russia was trying to highlight the civilian casualties, which is also why they keep pushing for cease-fire. Unfortunately, the Ukrainian authorities insist on winning a military victory. First, they thought they could do it by earlier this week, which is their Independence Day. They had said they were going to "liberate Donetsk before Independence Day." But that hasn’t happened. They should now recognize they’re not going to win a military victory. Russia’s latest actions show that they’re going to make sure that the forces there, the rebel forces, are not defeated.
AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday, the U.S. and Russia had a heated exchange in the United Nations over the situation in Ukraine. U.S. Ambassador Samantha power accused Russia of duplicity.
SAMANTHA POWER: Instead of listening, instead of heeding the demands of the international community and the rules of the international order, at every step, Russia has come before this council to say everything except the truth. It has manipulated, it has obfuscated, it has outright lied. So we have learned to measure Russia by its actions and not by its words. In the last 48 hours, Russia’s actions have spoken volumes.
AMY GOODMAN: Samantha Power’s Russian counterpart, Vitaly Churkin, blamed Ukraine for escalating the situation by not honoring political agreements. He also advised the White House to stop meddling in world affairs.
VITALY CHURKIN: Now the American ambassador said what kind of message can we send to Russia’s neighbors? Well, I would suggest that we send a message to Washington. Stop interfering with the internal affairs of sovereign states. Stop trying to undermine a regime that you don’t like. Restrain your geopolitical ambition. Then, not only Russia’s neighbors, but many other countries around the world would breathe a sigh of relief.
AMY GOODMAN: That is the Russian Ambassador to the U.N., Vitaly Churkin. Before that, Samantha Power. Jonathan Steele, if you could respond to what they said and also talk about the NATO satellite imagery showing Russian troops in Ukraine and also the Russian troops who were allegedly captured by Ukraine and Putin saying that they were just on holiday in Ukraine.
JONATHAN STEELE: Well, I think every big power uses this strategy of so-called plausible deniability. That is what Russia has been doing up till now. I think Samantha Power has some legitimacy in saying that the Russians are obfuscating and even telling lies. It would be much better if Russia came out clearly and said, we have to defend these people because they’re under attack, they have legitimate interests, but they’re being attacked by their own government in Ukraine and we have come to their defense. We’re not seeking to take over the whole of Ukraine, we’re not seeking to separate Western — Eastern Ukraine from Ukraine and join it on to Russia. That would be a more honest way of handling it. But, that is the Russian position. When the Eastern Ukrainian leadership had this referendum two or three month to go about joining Russia, Putin said they should not hold the referendum. When the referendum never-the-less took place against his statements, they did not recognize the results of the referendum. So there’s no evidence that Russia is seeking to, as it were, re-create the Soviet Union or the 19th century Russian Empire and seize this part of Ukraine. It is simply trying to defend people who have legitimate interests, who are worried about Kiev’s very anti-Russian, including anti-Russian language strategy, and seek to defend them. So, I think it would be better if Russia was more honest. On the question of the prisoners, that may well be true that those people strayed into Ukraine inadvertently. There have been Ukrainian troops on the Russian side and the Russians have returned them without making a big propaganda fuss about it when they’ve lost their way. On the question of the satellite pictures which you asked about, I’m no expert on that. They look potentially convincing, but you would have to get more independent expert opinion on that. We know how in the run-up to the invasion, Colin Powell on the Security Council — was all kinds of photographs and things which turned out to be fakes. So, one has to be cautious on this, but, they may well be true.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Jonathan Steele, what do you make of the calls for increasing economic sanctions, especially by the European Union, against Russia and the possibility that that might be effective forcing some kind of a diplomatic settlement to this crisis?
JONATHAN STEELE: Well, it hasn’t been effective so far. So I don’t think there’s any reason to expect that more sanctions will be anymore effective. I mean, Russian policy has not changed, it hasn’t softened. So, sanctions are not working. And there is great doubt in Europe about the counterproductive element of it, of shooting oneself in the foot. The Eurozone economy is now predicted not to grow this year. They have to downgrade their forecasts. It won’t necessarily be negative growth, collapse in output, but it could be just a flat-line position, no growth. And there are many concerns, particularly in Germany, over that. Of course, Russia has retaliated by banning all food imports from the EU into Russia for at least the next year. That is having an effect on the European agricultural producers. So, it’s a very dangerous tit-for-tat thing, which both sides can suffer. But, I don’t think it is having any political effect, and therefore, should not be relied on.
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President Obama is sending Secretary of State John Kerry to the Middle East to help build a regional coalition against the Islamic State, or ISIS, the militant group that has seized large parts of Iraq and Syria. “We don’t have a strategy yet,” Obama admitted. We speak to journalist Jonathan Steele, author of “Defeat: Losing Iraq and the Future of the Middle East.” Steele says that at this point, he believes ISIS represents a “marginal threat” on Western interests and that airstrikes will be counterproductive.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Jonathan Steele, I wanted to switch gears a bit, moving on to Iraq, you’re also the author of the book "Defeat: Why America and Britain Lost Iraq." On Thursday, President Obama announced he plans to send Secretary of State John Kerry to the Middle East to help build a regional coalition of allies to ISIL.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I’ve asked Secretary Kerry to travel to the region to continue to build the coalition that is needed to meet this threat. As I’ve said, rooting out a cancer like ISIL will not be quick or easy but I’m confident that we can and we will, working closely with our allies and our partners. For our part, I’ve directed Secretary Hagel and our Joint Chiefs of Staff to prepare a range of options. I will be meeting with my National Security Council again this evening as we continue to develop that strategy.
AMY GOODMAN: Again, that’s President Obama saying they’re trying to build regional allies against the Islamic State. Can you talk about what is happening there? A lot has been made of President Obama speaking yesterday at the White House saying that he hasn’t developed a strategy yet.
JONATHAN STEELE: Well, obviously, the murder and beheading of James Foley the other day was an appalling thing and the treatment of other captives, as you mentioned the waterboarding and so on, by Islamic State. The crucial point to remember in all of this is the main threat that Islamic State poses is to other Muslims, to other Arabs, particularly to the Shia. To heighten this and turn them into — as though they are Osama bin Laden’s campaign against the West under Al Qaeda is wrong and can lead to terrible consequences of mistaken Western policy. This is a threat to the region. It’s only marginally a threat to Western interests. So, that should be the first point. The second point is that military strikes by the West are not likely to be effective in the long-term. And again, as we’ve seen in many places, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, they tend to be counterproductive and only create more recruits for the enemy you’re trying to deal with. Where I think Obama is right is if you send in Kerry to the region, particularly to Saudi Arabia to tell them that to do something about all this will hobby a fundamentalist ideology which is pumped out from Saudi Arabia, and the money that is going perhaps in private hands, not from Saudi government hands, to these atrocious militants and the ISIS, that would be good. Because that is the best way to cut off funding and sourcing. Then the arming of the other rebels by Qatar and it used to be by Turkey, but that now seems to have stopped, would also be helpful. But, any kind of major U.S. role in military terms would be a disaster.
AMY GOODMAN: And is there any difference in the approach of Britain, right now?
JONATHAN STEELE: Well, Britain is hesitating, because as you remember, last year, when there was talks of airstrikes against Syria because of the chemical weapons issue, the British government voted against that. So, Cameron suffered a humiliating defeat. He realizes now that he can only take military action if he has parliamentary approval and it is not at all clear he would get it. So, even though Obama seems to want some sort of coalition of the willing and was hoping Australia and Britain would at least join it in the first instance, I think Britain is quite leery of that. And of course, Cameron is facing an election in less than a year’s time, and he knows the British public opinion is firmly against any military action in Syria by Britain. Because of course, this would be against the Assad regime. If the Assad regime was in cooperation with the West, that would be one thing, but, it would still be counterproductive, I think. But, if they go in, as Obama perhaps might do against the wishes of the Assad regime, then essentially, the U.S. is invading yet another Middle Eastern country.
AMY GOODMAN: Jonathan Steele, we want to thank you for being with us. Former Moscow Correspondent for The Guardian author of, "Eternal Russia: Yeltsin, Gorbachev, and the Mirage of Democracy." And also author of the book "Defeat," About Iraq and Britain, "Defeat: Why America and Britain Lost Iraq." This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we go to Chicago to speak with Congressmember Luis Gutiérrez. 145 people got arrested in Washington protesting immigration policy, or the lack thereof.
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Heralding a National Trend? Enrollment Surges as NYC Begins Full-Day
Prekindergarten for 50,000 Kids
As the school year begins, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio is launching his signature initiative of full-day universal prekindergarten at public schools. More than 50,000 children have already enrolled and thousands of additional teachers have been hired. Democracy Now! co-host and New York Daily News columnist Juan González discusses how the program could transform public education in New York City, and potentially, nationwide.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Juan, before we move on with our first segment, you have a very interesting column in the New York Daily News today.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yes, well I reported today on the — what is about to happen in New York City, one of the biggest and most of ambitious experiments in reforming public education in years in the United States. Starting next week, New York will be offering free full day prekindergarten classes to children in New York City. Until now, there has only been a small, mostly half-day pre-k program. The signature initiative of the new de Blasio administration is this universal pre-k. Effectively it adds an entire year to the school year of any child in the public schools because they will start school at four instead of five in kindergarten. Yesterday the Mayor announced 50,000 children have already registered for the new pre-k program. That is an immense number when you think about it. The entire public school system of Seattle is only, I think, about 47,000 or 48,000 children. The city is actually adding 30,000 new children, there were 20,000 in pre-k last year, which is almost equal to the public school system — the entire public school system of Cincinnati. So, this is a huge endeavor. Thousands of teachers have been hired and trained, hundreds of sites at both community organizations and public schools have been identified. They have had to rush this all out only since March, which is when the legislature — the state legislature approved funding for the program after de Blasio lobbied fiercely for it. So, it’s a major, major change, not to mention the fact that countless numbers of parents who until now have had to pay for child care for their four-year-olds will now not have to worry about this extreme, large cost in their budgets of private childcare. So, it is a major change. If it succeeds, you may see cities across the country moving toward universal pre-k, full day pre-k. So it’s going to be an interesting experiment. There are bound to be all kinds of problems initially with it, but I know that educators and reformers around the country are looking to see what happens with this pre-k program.
AMY GOODMAN: We will continue to follow it.
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Immigrants and their allies held protests in more than a dozen cities Thursday to mark what they called the National Day to Fight for Families. Calling on President Obama to take executive action and stem his record level of deportations, about 145 people were arrested in front of the White House after laying red carnations over photos of deported loved ones. The protest came as President Obama called on Congress yet again to help address immigration reform, but suggested he would take executive action if it is the only way to address the situation. We speak to Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-Illinois), chair of the Immigration Taskforce of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Immigrants and their allies held protests in more than a dozen cities Thursday to mark what they called the national day to fight for families. They want President Obama to take executive action to stem his record level of deportations. About 145 people were arrested in front of the White House after they laid red carnations over photos of deported loved ones. Among those who marched in support were Jonathan Perez and Jesus Hernandez.
JESUS HERNANDEZ: I want Obama to stop deportations and come up with a good plan for everybody. For everybody, not just for a few over here and a few over there. No, take the reins and come up with a plan. Yes or no. He’s the president, and if not, he should leave.
JONATHAN PREREZ: I’m an immigrant. I achieved a DACA so I can manage to work legally now, but, I am the only one of my family. And it saddens me to know that I — when, over half of what my mom makes in two weeks. So, I want her to have the opportunity to make as much money as I do, no matter what kind of work she is doing. So I feel like I need to be out here in support of everyone because I want everyone to have equal rights.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Also on Thursday, President Obama called on Congress yet again to help address immigration reform. But, he suggested that he would take executive action if it is the only way to address the situation.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I have been very clear about the fact that our immigration system is broken and needs to be fixed. And my preference continues to be that Congress act. I don’t think anybody thinks that Congress is going to act in the short-term, but hope springs eternal that after the midterm elections, they may act. The good news is that we have started to make some progress. What we’ve seen so far is that throughout the summer, the number of apprehensions have been decreasing. Maybe that is counterintuitive, but is a good thing because that means that fewer folks are coming across.
AMY GOODMAN: Executive steps President Obama could take include deferring deportation for millions of undocumented immigrants as well as providing new green cards for high-tech workers and for relatives of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. For more we’re joined by Congressmember Luis Gutiérrez, Democrat of Illinois. He’s in Chicago where this week he met with immigration advocates to prepare for a possible announcement from the White House. Congressmember Gutiérrez chairs the Immigration Task Force of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Congressman, welcome back to Democracy Now!, what do you think has to happen right now? 145 people, at least, were arrested yesterday in Washington.
REP. LUIS GUTIÉRREZ: Yesterday was a national day of action. They are responding because each and every day that we wait, another 1000 people are deported. Every week, dozens of American’s children are left orphaned because they lose a mom or a dad. Our broken immigration system has an impact on immigrant communities each and every day. That is why I am heartened to hear the president said, look, for three months — April, May, June — I went down to House floor and gave speech after speech, alerting the Republican majority that if we did not act by the Fourth of July, the president would. And indeed, the president said the first week or the last week of June that he was going to act. Why? Because Speaker Boehner called him up and said, we are not going to do anything. That is after the Republican majority said that they had a set of principles, said that they were ready to work, said that they were ready to move forward. I and many others worked with them and said, we understand your the majority. Tell us the outline of the proposal but let’s get something done. They said they wanted to do it in parts. They didn’t want to do one bill at one time. We said, OK, let’s begin on the parts. They said everybody can’t be a citizen right away. We said, OK, let’s see who does become a citizen and what are the steps for the others. They said, well, we can’t have the Senate bill as a model. We said, well, let’s create our own model, and let’s come up with one better. But, each and every time, the Republicans came up with a demand that was acquiesced to, in the end they just simply walked away. So, look, the president yesterday and I prefer a legislative solution, because what the president can do, Amy, is never going to be as great and as fulfilling and as permanent as what can be accomplished legislatively. So, I want a legislative solution but the Republicans have said they’re not going to give us one. So, then the president needs to act and use his executive authority to act.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Luis Gutiérrez, what you make of the threats by some Republican leaders in the house and Senate that if the president does act and they believe he would be acting unconstitutionally, that they’re prepared to essentially shut down the government by holding up approval of the budget that Congress must pass before the beginning of October?
REP. LUIS GUTIÉRREZ: Well, look, look Juan. First of all, I believe the president is going to act in the next 30 days. That’s my hope. What would stop him from acting? Probably because there are some Democrats that are in some contested senatorial races prior, in Arkansas and others, that don’t want him to act until after the election. But, I hope Democrats say, we have principles, we have values and we will put those principles and good public policy ahead of politics. Because, one of the problems Democrats have had in the past is, we are for the immigrants but we don’t want to spend too much political capital in defending them or lose too many legislative seats and certainly not our majority. So, I would hope he would put good public policy ahead of politics. Having said that, look, the Republicans — let’s say Obama does it, Juan, and he says it in — it would take three to four months from the moment he makes — right? — the decision to the time it could be implemented. You’ve got regulations to put in place, paperwork, you’ve got administration to put in place for millions of people to be able to apply to the American government so they’d be free from deportation and given a work permit for a couple of years.
Now, having said that, I think what we need to understand then is the Republicans can always come back to the table — which is one of the things that the president said yesterday, he said hope is eternal — springs eternal, maybe they will come back in the lame-duck session and we can talk again. So, they can always come back. But Republicans have to stop saying, we won’t do anything. There is a crisis in the immigrant community. It is a damaging, hurtful, and many times, leads to deaths in our community. And so, you know what? If you don’t want to act and there’s a crisis, we have a responsibility to use the powers that we do have at the legislative branch to help people. What can Obama do? Look, he can’t do what the Senate bill would do, but what he can do is say, I want to prioritize deportations in a way that it is meaningful to our national security and that respects the bonds of families and the immigrant community that has been devastated because of our immigration system.
Let’s say, Juan, he said, you know what, anybody that has been in the United States — and I’m not proposing, but let’s just say he said this — everybody who has been in the U.S. for 10 years or more working has roots in the community, maybe they’re married, has American citizen children, and has been married. You know, it is ready to come forward and sign up and acknowledge who they are with the federal government, go through a rigorous background check to make sure they have no criminal background whatsoever and they have been here 10 years, do you know how many people that would be? Over 6 million people. That’s what, I think, the American public will come to understand, is that there are millions of people that have been here in the United States for over a decade and have no relief and the Republicans want come to the table to sensibly bring a solution.
Marco Rubio, he voted for the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill. So, it’s like the president is doing what he voted for, just not in the expansive manner that he did. The other thing that I think that has to be clear, look, we also have to understand that maybe the president can do — I believe the president can do millions. I think he can five to six million. And I think he can articulate a very clear, legal framework for doing it. And, you know, if the Republicans each and every time the president wants to take an action they are going to shut down the government, in the end they’re going to be shut out of government, if that is the only position that they have. If the president does something unconstitutional or illegal, they should use the courts, they shouldn’t make and hold hostage the rest of the people of the United States for an issue that the president — that they refuse to deal with, which they say they believe in because I’ve talked to them and speaker Boehner said he wanted to do immigration reform. So, they say they want to do it, but then they don’t do it and then they say if we do it, then they will shut down the government. It is nonsense.
Look, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, AFL-CIO, Chamber of Commerce, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Jews — religious communities, broad-based opinion makers in America, all agree we need to fix our broken immigration system. And I like what Amy brought out earlier in the program, and that is that the fix is for the dishwasher and the woman that makes the bed in Chicago, but also it’s also for the high-tech engineer, making sure he can have their spouse here in America, it’s also for our agricultural industry. Farmers out there, American farmers, they need a reliable workforce and labor force that they can rely on season in and season out. And you can’t have one until you fix our broken immigration system. 70% of all agricultural workers, those are the people that pick our fruit, pick our vegetables, sweat and toil, do backbreaking work in the fields across America, are undocumented. Shouldn’t they be given an opportunity? So, I think if the president comes forward and says — he’s got to pick a date, right? He can’t just say, everybody who’s in the United States. I hope he picks the date of the Senate, right, so he goes back three years. With DACA, he said that the youth, the immigrant youth had to be here by 2007, and this was 2012. He went back five years. He said only immigrant youth that have been here five years or longer. He’s going to have to pick a date. I don’t know what date he picks, whatever. But, even if he goes to 10 years, Juan, it is 6.3 million people. That is a lot of people. So, if the Republicans want to not do anything. They have to remember that Obama’s actions are going to be actions that are going to be well received throughout most of America.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What is your best guess on when he is going to make this announcement?
REP. LUIS GUTIÉRREZ: Here is what he said. He said he would make it by the end of the summer. My hope is notwithstanding what some Democrats wanted him to do, and that is to wait until after the November elections. I hope he keeps his word and does it by the end of the summer. The protests that you showed earlier today were national protests. You focused on the one in Washington, but there were people in dozens of cities across America raising their voices, asking and demanding that the president take action. Let me just say this, to Democrats specifically, and that is, we have to be a party that has values and that has principles when it comes to our immigrant community. Number one, that is important for our party. Number two, if you just want to look at the political benefit, think one moment. It is June 2012. President Barack Obama has a serious problem with the immigrant community. The complaints are all about his deportation. He signs DACA, right, with executive authority that he has through homeland security and says, I’m not going to deport anymore youth. What happens immediately after that? The country embraced it, Juan. It embraced it to the point that at the convention, the Democratic convention in prime time, you heard one undocumented youth after another speaking from the floor of the convention to the nation. And in November, the Democrats, presidential election in November 2012, got 2 million more Latino votes than they did in 2008 and got an increased percentage number. So, it is good public policy and it certainly has really been demonstrated in the past that it is good politics.
I said — when I spoke to the president I said, Mr. President, when you do this and you show that government can be a tool for justice and for fairness, you do this for the immigrant community, let me tell you what is going to happen. You’re going to broaden the ranks of those who care about justice and broaden the ranks of those who care about raising the minimum wage. Those who care about better labor standards and those who care about women’s reproductive rights, those who care about our LGBT community. Let’s grow the progressive movement. Let’s take the actions that we need, that we can demonstrate that government can be a tool for good, for justice, and for fairness. And if the Republicans want to respond, let them respond. Let them respond, and what they’re going to find is that in America, people want men and women of action and that take those actions boldly and swiftly.
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In Chicago, five people were killed and at least 42 people were wounded in an outbreak of shootings in the city last weekend. The wounded included a 3-year-old boy. We speak to Rep. Luis Gutiérrez, Democrat from Illinois.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Gutiérrez, before we wrap up, on another issue, this report from CBS News on Monday, five people died, at least 42 people, including a three-year-old boy, were wounded in shootings across Chicago since Friday afternoon. That is just in a few day period. Can you talk about this latest rash of shootings in Chicago and what you feel needs to be done?
REP. LUIS GUTIÉRREZ: You know, Amy, it’s — I read the papers, I read about what is going on in Syria, I read about what is going on in Iraq, I read about what is going on in Ukraine, and I read about the violence across the world. But, the the first thing I read about is the violence in my own city of Chicago. And until we get our arms around the fact that anybody can buy a gun, anybody can get a gun, we’re going to have a lot of difficulty with this issue. It is a devastating one in our neighborhoods throughout the city of Chicago, but it also demonstrates that, yeah, unemployment is going down and job growth has been increasing for the last three years, but it is skipping broad parts of our society where there is no progress. And what we need to do is we need to re-examine where it is government is putting its priority and not forget about certain parts. Because, you know what? The violence is so contained to certain neighborhoods of the city of Chicago that many of us in the rest of the city of Chicago feel unaffected by it. but, in the end, they are Chicagoans and we need to take good care of them and we need to provide them with the kind of economic and social sustenance that they need. But, at the same time, we need the tools of law and order to be there. And so that there’s a community working with government. And we need to get the guns off the streets, first and foremost, so that we can stop the weapons of violence. But there is a lot more. This is a deep-rooted problem of poverty that exists in our community. Because, you see where it happens, you see where it happens. It’s in the poorest, most devastated neighborhoods economically and socially of the city of Chicago.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Luis Gutiérrez, thank you for being with us. Democratic Congressmember, Chair of the Immigration Task Force Congressional Hispanic Caucus. This is Democracy Now! When we come back, a report by the ACLU on the militarization of police departments around the country. "The War Comes Home." Stay with us.
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President Obama has ordered a White House-led review of federal programs that fund and distribute military equipment to state and local police. Obama cited concern at how such equipment was used during the recent unrest in Ferguson, Missouri, following the police killing of Michael Brown. One of the BearCat armored trucks used during protests there was paid for with $360,000 in Homeland Security grants. According to Pentagon data published by The New York Times, police departments have received tens of thousands of machine guns during the Obama administration, along with nearly 200,000 ammunition magazines; thousands of pieces of camouflage and night-vision equipment; and hundreds of silencers, armored cars and aircraft. Much of the equipment is used by police SWAT teams for what amount to paramilitary raids on people’s homes. A new report by the American Civil Liberties Union examines more than 800 of these raids and found only 7 percent were for genuine emergencies. Nearly 80 percent were for used for ordinary law enforcement purposes like serving search warrants on people’s homes. We are joined by Kara Dansky, a senior counsel for the ACLU and author of its new report, "The War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarization of American Policing."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: This week President Obama ordered a White House-led review of federal programs that fund and distribute military equipment to state and local police. He cited concern at how such equipment was used during the recent unrest in Ferguson, Missouri, after the police shooting of Michael Brown. One of the BearCat armored trucks used during this protest was paid for with $360,000 in Homeland Security grants.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: There is a big difference between our military and local law enforcement, and we don’t want those lines blurred. That would be contrary to our traditions. And I think there will be some bipartisan interest in re-examining some of those programs.
AMY GOODMAN: According to Pentagon data published by The New York Times, police departments have received tens of thousands of machine guns during the Obama administration, along with nearly 200,000 ammunition magazines; thousands of pieces of camouflage and night-vision equipment; and hundreds of silencers, armored cars, aircraft. Much of the equipment is used by police SWAT teams for what amounts to paramilitary raids on people’s homes.
A new report by the American Civil Liberties Union examined more than 800 of these raids and found only 7 percent were genuine emergencies. Nearly 80 percent were used for ordinary law enforcement purposes, like serving search warrants on people’s homes. The report is called, "War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarization of American Policing."
We’re joined now from Washington, D.C., by its author, Kara Dansky, senior counsel for the ACLU. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Kara. What surprised you most by what’s happening, and if you could relate what is becoming an awareness in the mainstream media that many if different communities have talked about for a while, the militarization of police? Ferguson has really brought it – exploded it onto the national media scene.
KARA DANSKY: Sure. Thanks for having me, first of all. Amy, I think that is exactly right. I think what has shocked so many Americans who are watching what happened in Ferguson is something that really reflects a much broader trend, which is the militarization of policing, which as you say, has been going on in certain communities in the United States for decades, fueled in large part by a series of federal programs that bring weapons and money to local law enforcement, mainly, to wage the war on drugs. Which has been unfairly and aggressively fought in communities of color, as I said, for decades.
So I do think that what we saw in Ferguson is shocking and I am encouraged that more and more people are coming to understand this phenomenon of militarization of policing but I think it is also important to understand that it does reflect a much broader trend that has been going on in America for some time.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Kara Dansky, there have been generations now of conflicts between urban police departments and the minority communities in the United States. But as your report seems to point out, it is the weaponry that has changed, not the actual conflicts.
KARA DANSKY: Certainly, the weaponry has changed quite a bit in terms of the kinds of weaponry that Amy listed early on that the police are able to get free of charge from the Pentagon, through what is known as the 1033 program. Also the kinds of weaponry that local police are able to buy directly from weapons manufacturers with money that they receive from the Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security. I think that that’s right – I think that the kinds of weapons has certainly evolved and expanded in terms of what local police have access to and the kinds of weapons that they use in their arsenals.
It is also true, as you say, that aggressive policing has been going on for a long time in communities of color. I also think that the militarization trend reflects not only the kinds of equipment, but also a certain culture of militarism that we see permeating many police departments throughout the country.
AMY GOODMAN: This month, Pentagon spokesperson Rear Admiral John Kirby responded to criticism of the militarization of police to equipment transfers from the Defense Logistics Agency.
JOHN KIRBY: I will tell you though, that we have rigorous compliance and accountability standards, and biannually, the Defense Logistics Agency spot checks many of these local law enforcement agencies in the states to make sure that they’re keeping proper account ability – inventorying – keeping an inventory of the equipment. But we do not legislate, we don’t dictate, we don’t mandate any kind of certain use. That is up to local law enforcement.
AMY GOODMAN: That is Pentagon spokesperson Rear Admiral John Kirby. Kara Dansky, your response?
KARA DANSKY: That is exactly right and it’s a big part of the problem. We don’t think the local police should be able to have unlimited discretion in terms of how they deploy military weaponry in American communities. The other thing that is important to note, is it is true that the Defense Logistics Agency is required to do some checks in terms of overseeing the inventory to make sure that local police departments are keeping track of the kinds of weapons that they get from the Pentagon. But it raises a question as to what happens when those inventories are not completed or when weapons go missing.
We know that a number of police departments across the country have been suspended from the program because they simply cannot account for some of the weapons that they got from the Pentagon. It is appropriate to have that kind of oversight, and to suspend departments that can’t account for the weapons they get from the Pentagon, but it raises a really important question which is, what happened to those weapons?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to ask about some of these examples that your report cites. For example, if you could talk about the toddler who was severely injured in May in Georgia.
KARA DANSKY: Sure. This is a really horrifying case of something that happens routinely across the country, usually, not resulting in that kind of injury. But basically what happened was, a family was visiting extended family in a small town outside Atlanta, Georgia. They were asleep at about 3:00 in the morning, and the police decided to serve as search warrant on the home where they were staying.
They served that warrant at 3:00 in the morning. It’s important to note that they were looking for a man they suspected of having about $50 worth of drugs. They served the search warrant at about 3:00 in the morning, and they used what is called a flashbang grenade. This is a grenade that detonates a loud noise. There is an explosion, and it causes temporary blindness and deafness, as well as tremendous confusion by the people who experience it.
This flashbang grenade landed directly in the crib of sleeping Bou Bou Phonesavanh, critically injuring him. It was absolutely horrific. His sisters were in the room and watched this happen flash and experienced the detonation of the flashbang grenade. Then the officers came in and they held the family at gunpoint. When Bou Bou’s mother tried to go to him, they yelled at her to shut up and get on the ground. They held the family gun point. They ordered Bou Bou’s father to the ground. They held him there. And then it was hours before these parents were able to see their child.
So again, tragedies like that don’t happen every day, but the kinds of tactics and weapons that are being deployed by the police in the kinds of raids we saw happen in Georgia are happening every day in America.
AMY GOODMAN: Kara Dansky, we want to thank you very much for being with us,
senior counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union and author of the new
report, "War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarization of American Policing."
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•U.S., Russia Trade Barbs over Ukraine asNATO Releases Satellite Imagery
Tensions continue to mount between the United States and Russia over alleged Russian military operations inside Ukraine. On Thursday, NATO released satellite images it says show Russian artillery, vehicles and troops in and around eastern Ukraine. At the United Nations, U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power accused Russia of duplicity.
Samantha Power: "Instead of listening, instead of heeding the demands of the international community and the rules of the international order, at every step Russia has come before this Council to say everything except the truth. It has manipulated. It has obfuscated. It has outright lied. So we have learned to measure Russia by its actions and not by its words. In the last 48 hours, Russia’s actions have spoken volumes."
Russia has questioned the satellite photos, accused the United States of meddling, and blamed Ukraine for failing to honor previous agreements. A new Human Rights Watch report, meanwhile, accuses the Russian-backed separatist rebels of arbitrarily detaining civilians and subjecting them to torture, degrading treatment and forced labor. Ambassadors from the 28 NATO countries and Ukraine are holding an emergency meeting today.
•Obama: "We Don’t Have a Strategy Yet" on Islamic State
President Obama is sending Secretary of State John Kerry to the Middle East to help build a regional coalition against Islamic State, or ISIL, the militant group that has seized large parts of Iraq and Syria. Speaking at the White House, Obama also said he has asked the Pentagon to draw up a range of military options.
President Obama: "I’ve asked Secretary Kerry to travel to the region to continue to build the coalition that’s needed to meet this threat. As I’ve said, rooting out a cancer like ISIL will not be quick or easy, but I’m confident that we can and we will, working closely with our allies and our partners. For our part, I’ve directed Secretary Hagel and our Joint Chiefs of Staff to prepare a range of options. I’ll be meeting with my National Security Council again this evening as we continue to develop that strategy."
Obama went on to tell reporters, "We don’t have a strategy yet." The White House is mulling options including expanding U.S. airstrikes on ISIL into Syria from Iraq. The United States admitted this week to flying surveillance missions over Syria to gather intelligence on ISIL.
•Video Claims to Show Syrian Forces Killed by ISIL
The potential for U.S. strikes on ISIL in Syria comes as the group continues its bloody fight with the regime of Bashar al-Assad. New video posted to YouTube shows the bodies of some 250 Syrian soldiers reported killed by Islamic State fighters. The video was reportedly taken after the Islamic State seized an airbase in Raqqa over the weekend.
•Report: Islamic State Waterboarded Western Prisoners
Four Western hostages held by the Islamic State in Syria were reportedly subjected to waterboarding, a key Bush-era torture method that simulates drowning. The Washington Post reports the hostages were waterboarded "several times" early in their captivity, including the murdered American journalist James Foley. The ISIL waterboarding was apparently modeled on the CIA’s use of it to interrogate prisoners following 9/11. President Obama banned waterboarding upon taking office in 2009 and recently described it as torture.
•U.N.: Syrian Refugees Top 3 Million; Over 1,000 Killed or Wounded in July
The United Nations continues to warn of a dire humanitarian situation in Syria. The official death toll from more than three years of civil war was recently increased to 191,000 — though the actual number is far higher. Kyung-wha Kang, the U.N.’s deputy emergency relief coordinator, briefed the Security Council on Thursday.
Kyung-wha Kang: "Mr. President, over the past six months [since a U.N. resolution], the plight of people in Syria has not been reduced but has deepened. The violence and conflict continues unabated with more deaths of women, children and men. The social and economic fabric of the country has been ripped to shreds."
More than 1,000 people were killed or injured in Syria last month. The official number of refugees has topped three million, an increase of one million in the last year.
•43 U.N. Peacekeepers Captured by Militants in Golan Heights
Syrian rebels with the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front have reportedly captured dozens of U.N. peacekeepers serving in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights. Around 43 Fijian troops with the U.N. force have been seized, and dozens more from the Philippines are said to be trapped. The capture comes after Syrian rebels traded gunfire with Israeli troops at a border crossing between Israel and Syria.
•More than 100 Arrested Outside White House Calling for End to Deportations
More than 100 people have been arrested in front of the White House protesting the deportation of undocumented immigrants. Demonstrators laid red carnations over photos of loved ones who have been deported. The rally came as part of a national day of action in more than a dozen cities calling on President Obama to take executive action on immigration reform.
Jonathan Perez: "I’m an immigrant, and I achieved the DACA [Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals], so I can manage to work legally now, but I’m the only one in my family, and it saddens me to know that I went over half of what my mom makes in two weeks. So, I want her to have the opportunity to make as much money as I do, and no matter what kind of work she’s doing. So, you know, I feel like I need to be out here in support of everyone, because I want everyone to have equal rights."
Speaking inside the White House, Obama renewed his pleas to Congress for the passage of immigration reform. But he also suggested he would take executive action if it is the only way to act.
President Obama: "I have been very clear about the fact that our immigration system is broken and needs to be fixed. And my preference continues to be that Congress act. I don’t think anybody thinks that Congress is going to act in the short term, but hope springs eternal that after the midterm elections they may act. The good news is, we’ve started to make some progress. You know, what we’ve seen so far is that throughout the summer, the number of apprehensions have been decreasing. Maybe that’s counterintuitive, but that’s a good thing, because that means that fewer folks are coming across."
•9 Mexican Immigrants Win Lawsuit over Coerced Deportations
Nine Mexican immigrants who say they were coerced into accepting deportation have won the right to return to the United States. The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit on behalf of the immigrants last year, claiming they were misinformed and pressured into signing voluntary deportation paperwork. Under an agreement unveiled this week, immigration authorities have pledged to change their practices and provide detained immigrants with access to accurate information and outside communication. While the case applies only to nine people deported from California, a judge could potentially expand it to thousands of others.
•Argentine Unions Stage 2nd General Strike over Lagging Economy
Argentina is facing its second general strike this year over inflation and unemployment. Labor unions have called a 24-hour work stoppage nationwide, slowing travel and public services. The action follows an initial general strike held in April.
•NFL Changes Domestic Violence Policy Following Outcry
The National Football League has changed its domestic violence policy following public outcry over lax standards. Earlier this year, the NFL came under criticism after Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice was suspended just two games despite video footage showing him dragging his unconscious fiancée by her hair and dropping her face-first onto the ground. Witnesses say Rice had punched his fiancée moments before. In a statement, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said his initial response was inadequate, saying: "I didn’t get it right." Under the new rules, a first offense will result in a six-game suspension, and a second offense will earn a lifetime ban.
•Ferguson Residents Sue Police for Abuses in Protest Crackdown
A group of protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, has filed a lawsuit against local police for alleged abuses in the crackdown on the protests over the killing of Michael Brown. The group Black Lawyers for Justice is seeking $41.5 million on behalf of five plaintiffs who say they were detained, beaten, tear-gassed or shot with rubber bullets in the protests’ first days. One of the plaintiffs says police used racial epithets after shooting him with rubber bullets and almost drowning him in a ditch.
•Firm Authenticates Audio Recording of Michael Brown Shooting
The company behind a video messaging app has authenticated a recording allegedly capturing the moment Michael Brown was shot. An unidentified resident was taping a message for a friend when the gunshots rang out in the background, at least 10 in total. The company Glide has confirmed the recording was made at the time of the shooting.
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