A Daily Independent Global News Hour with Amy Goodman & Juan González for Wednesday, November 2, 2016
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Shut Down Rikers: Meet Akeem Browder, Who Is Fighting to Close Jail That Took His Brother's Life
We continue our coverage of Rikers Island. In October, the Browder family held a memorial service for Venida Browder, who died "of a broken heart" 16 months after her own son, Kalief, hanged himself in his Bronx home after spending nearly three years at New York’s Rikers Island jail. In 2010, when Kalief was just 16, he was sent to Rikers Island, without trial, on suspicion of stealing a backpack. He always maintained his innocence and demanded a trial. He spent the next nearly three years at Rikers, even though he was never tried or convicted. For nearly 800 days of that time, he was held in solitary confinement. Near the end of his time in jail, the judge offered to sentence him to time served if he entered a guilty plea, and told him he could face 15 years in prison if he went to trial and was convicted. Kalief still refused to accept the plea deal. He was only released when the case was dismissed. While in Rikers, Kalief was repeatedly assaulted by guards and other prisoners. He also told Huffington Post Live that he was repeatedly denied food by guards while he was in solitary confinement. These experiences traumatized him, and ultimately, after his release, Kalief Browder took his own life on June 6, 2015, when he was 22 years old. For more, we speak with Akeem Browder, Kalief’s older brother. He is the founder of the Campaign to Shut Down Rikers.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We continue our coverage of Rikers Island. In October, the Browder family held a memorial service for Venida Browder, who died "of a broken heart" 16 months after her own son, Kalief, hanged himself in his Bronx home, after spending nearly three years at New York’s Rikers Island jail. In 2010, when Kalief was just 16, he was sent to Rikers Island, awaiting trial on suspicion of stealing a backpack. He always maintained his innocence and demanded a trial. He spent the next nearly three years at Rikers, even though he was never tried or convicted. For nearly 800 days of that time, he was held in solitary confinement. Near the end of his time in jail, the judge offered to sentence him to time served if he entered a guilty plea, and told him he could face 15 years in prison if he went to trial and was convicted. Kalief still refused to accept a plea deal. He was only released when the case was dismissed.
AMY GOODMAN: While on Rikers, Kalief was repeatedly assaulted by guards and other prisoners. He also told Huffington Post Live he was repeatedly denied food by guards while he was in solitary confinement. These experiences traumatized him. Ultimately, after his release, Kalief Browder took his own life, June 6, 2015, when he was 22 years old. He was a student at Bronx Community College. The video that’s come out of the assaults on him by both the guards and the prisoners is just astounding.
For more, we’re joined by Akeem Browder, Kalief Browder’s older brother, founder of the Campaign to Shut Down Rikers.
Akeem Browder, it’s wonderful to be able to meet you in person. I know it was hard just in the music break; as we played Nina Simone, we were showing images of your brother. You were seven, your family, seven kids?
AKEEM BROWDER: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: You called him "Peanut"?
AKEEM BROWDER: Yeah, Kalief was Peanut, yeah. You know, I appreciate you having me here, and I wish it was Kalief actually here, so that he can tell his story the way he would have, or my mom, who now we’ve lost two—I’ve had to go to two funerals already within the last 16—not even two years—18 months. And in that time, I’ve heard promises from de Blasio and—that there was going to be some reform justice made and that other people wouldn’t have to suffer the way Kalief did, which doesn’t bring Kalief back at all, but it does let me know that or tells our family that something is going to be done about this. And yet, not a single thing has been done.
I mean, when we’re talking about how many people are on Rikers, it’s no longer at 15,000, where it was when I first started getting into this, but just because it’s down to roughly 60—78,000 doesn’t mean that it makes a difference on the numbers of people that’s actually going in, which is 70,000 people. Seventy thousand people go into Rikers yearly. And if you realize that—and I overheard you guys speaking about gladiator school—these 70,000-some-odd people, who are black and brown skin, 89 percent of the population, and yet we’re going through gladiator school, to then be released into public, where people live and fear against you because you’re on the news as a demonic animal or we’re demonized and dehumanized just because of our color of our skin most of the time. So, I mean, what Kalief went through, no kid should go through. A lot of 16- and 17-year-olds are a majority that make up that 70,000 people who go into the system.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What are the chances—you mentioned the issue of closing down Rikers. There’s been discussion, at least in the City Council of New York. Several councilmembers, including the speaker of the council, have said that they are in favor of shutting down Rikers. The mayor, while apparently sympathetic to the issue, has not made that stance. What’s your sense of how that movement is building and the potential that it might succeed?
AKEEM BROWDER: As I said, within the last 18 months, there’s—Mayor de Blasio, although sounding sympathetic, it’s lip service. He tells us that they’re going to reduce the population; however, at that time, from then 'til now, it's only been couple hundred, not even, because the population from 15—1,500 is only down to 1,475. That’s not movement. That’s not reform. And that’s not—that’s not being sympathetic.
AMY GOODMAN: Did Kalief lead to children, teenagers, being taken out of solitary confinement at Rikers?
AKEEM BROWDER: So, yes, there is a movement to get—like I’ve been working with Close Rikers group, where we’re pushing for raise the age awareness and the Kalief Browder law. However, we’re focusing on Rikers Island, but the Department of Corrections, in which I used to work for while Kalief was there, as an engineer, not as an officer, but that population is just being refocused to—you’re focusing on Rikers while there’s more than just Rikers there. There’s "The Boat." We have Manhattan House, Brooklyn House. Rikers Island is a overflow.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: "The Boat" is a barge in the Bronx, isn’t it?
AKEEM BROWDER: A barge, yes.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: A real barge, yeah.
AKEEM BROWDER: And literally, we’re focusing on the wrong thing. We’re focusing on Rikers. While we’re focused at Rikers, what they’re doing is abusing other human beings in other facilities.
AMY GOODMAN: You’re unusual, in that you both served at Rikers Island—as a corrections guard?
AKEEM BROWDER: No, as an engineer.
AMY GOODMAN: As an engineer. And you were also a detainee there.
AKEEM BROWDER: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about both experiences.
AKEEM BROWDER: You know, actually, I was—I was there as an adolescent, as well. And at 16 years old, being there then, where they considered you an adult, what they would do is—so, the public is being lied to. What they’re saying is that we’re putting these adolescents in adolescent facilities. But me being there, I can tell you that what they do is there’s John Does. John Does are people who don’t want to give up their age, but they’re 34, 30, 28, and since they’re considered John Does and they lie about their age, they’re then entered into the adolescent prisons, because they—
AMY GOODMAN: How old were you when you were there?
AKEEM BROWDER: Sixteen.
AMY GOODMAN: Like Kalief.
AKEEM BROWDER: Fifteen going on 16. They said I was 26, actually, until they corrected. But then they put me in adolescent facility. But there were adults there. And what they do is they’ll entitle people, different gang members. Instead of trying to fix what’s going on there, they create the system of violence that’s really predominant.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to turn to Kalief Browder in his own words. In this December 2013 interview with HuffPost Live’s Marc Lamont Hill, Browder talked about his suicide attempts at Rikers and his efforts to get psychiatric help.
KALIEF BROWDER: I would say I committed suicide about five to six—five or six times.
MARC LAMONT HILL: OK, you attempted suicide five to six times.
KALIEF BROWDER: Yes.
MARC LAMONT HILL: All while still in prison?
KALIEF BROWDER: Yes.
MARC LAMONT HILL: Wow.
KALIEF BROWDER: And I tried to resort to telling the correction officers that I wanted to see a psychiatrist or counselor, something. I was telling them I needed mental help, because I wasn’t feeling right. All the stress from my case, everything was just getting to me, and I just—I just couldn’t take it, and I just needed somebody to talk to. I needed to just let—I just needed to be—I just needed to talk and be stress-free. But the correction officers, they didn’t want to hear me out. Nobody wanted to listen.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was your brother speaking to HuffPost Live before he committed suicide himself?
AKEEM BROWDER: Yeah. You know, my mother, she would have—if she were sitting here, she would have spoke of how like the trauma of having her son being lost to the system. The system has claimed already two of my family members, through depression, anxiety and stress. But she’s not here anymore either. And I’m realizing now that the depression that’s transpired from Kalief to my mother is also to my family members, where senators and everyone asks for us to, you know, go up, and we’ve got to push for reform, we’ve got to push for this law and that law. They ask of us, the family members, to speak and to come out. Yet, when is it that they’re going to realize these human families, these people, like myself or my brother, who’s still suffering with depression because losing our mother is the hardest thing we had to do—now we’re being asked to come up to Albany and force us to get out of our realm, where we want to be mourning of our family, but then does not provide help or services that could inevitably stop the cycle of depression, like therapy or counseling or something like that, where it stops this? Because you’ve already created a cycle, and it’s not going to stop until it consumes everyone that’s in that path.
AMY GOODMAN: Kalief—
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Marc Levin, I just wanted to ask you—we only have about 30 seconds. Most New Yorkers, the only thing they ever—the only time they ever see Rikers Island is when they’re flying in to LaGuardia Airport on a plane. What you’re hoping they’ll get out of your film?
MARC LEVIN: Well, it’s no longer out of sight, out of mind. You know, we don’t have to think about Guantánamo. We don’t have to think about Abu Ghraib. But I think what you just heard, that, you know, solitary, especially for adolescents, it’s a form of torture. And we’ve been doing it right here. And it’s time to wake up. And it’s time to change who we are.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you both for being with us. Akeem Browder, you’re now with Campaign to Shut Down Rikers. You lost your brother Kalief to the system, as well as your mother. And I want to thank Marc Levin, director of the film Rikers. It airs on WNET 13 on November 15th. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Thanks so much for joining us.
9 States to Vote on Marijuana Initiatives: Will They Stop Jailing Young People of Color over Weed?
On November 8, 35 states and the District of Columbia will confront 156 ballot initiatives on issues ranging from universal healthcare to gun sale restrictions and death penalty reforms. One of the most contentious ballot initiatives concerns marijuana legalization. After next week’s election, marijuana could be legal for medical or recreational use in 29 states. Currently about 5 percent of Americans live in states where they can legally smoke cannabis, but after November that figure could rise to 25 percent. California is the biggest of the nine states casting a ballot on the measure. While other states are voting on medicinal use, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts and Nevada are with California in voting on legalizing the recreational use of marijuana. The "yes" vote is currently leading in all five states and is widely supported by young voters from both major parties. California legalized the medical use of marijuana 20 years ago. Polls in California show strong support for Proposition 64, the Adult Use of Marijuana Act. We speak with Deborah Small, founder of Break the Chains: Communities of Color and the War on Drugs. Her recent piece for The Root is headlined "How We Can Reap Reparations from Marijuana Reform." She’s a longtime advocate for drug decriminalization.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: On November 8th, 35 states and the District of Columbia will confront 156 ballot initiatives on issues ranging from universal healthcare to gun sale restrictions and death penalty reforms. One of the most contentious ballots is on marijuana legalization. After next week’s election, marijuana could be legal for medical or recreational use in 29 states. Currently about 5 percent of Americans live in states where they can legally smoke cannabis, but after November that figure could rise to 25 percent. California is the biggest of the nine states casting a ballot on the measure. While other states are voting on medicinal use, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts and Nevada are with California in voting on legalizing the recreational use of marijuana. The "yes" vote is currently leading in all five states and is widely supported by young voters from both major parties. California legalized the medical use of marijuana 20 years ago.
AMY GOODMAN: Polls in California show strong support for Proposition 64, the Adult Use of Marijuana Act. This is an ad made by Yes on 64.
YES ON 64 AD: Prop 64 makes marijuana legal in California for adults 21 and over. And here’s what else it does: bans marijuana use in public; permits sales only at licensed marijuana businesses, not at grocery or convenience stores. And Prop 64 generates a billion in new tax revenue for California to fund after-school programs and job training and placement initiatives. Learn more at YesOn64.org":http://yeson64.org. Vote yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And this is an ad made by No on Prop 64.
NO ON PROP 64 AD: Proposition 64 will allow marijuana smoking ads in prime time and on programs with millions of children and teenage viewers. Children could be exposed to ads promoting marijuana gummy candy and brownies, the same products blamed for a spike in emergency room visits in Colorado. Fatalities doubled in marijuana-related car crashes after legalization in Washington state. Yet, in California, Proposition 64 doesn’t even include a DUIstandard. Prop 64, they got it wrong again.
AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about Prop 64, we’re going to San Diego, California, to speak with Deborah Small, founder of Break the Chains: Communities of Color and the War on Drugs. Her recent piece for The Root is headlined "How We Can Reap Reparations from Marijuana Reform." She’s a longtime advocate for drug decriminalization.
Deborah Small, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s good to have you with us. It’s a major day around the issue of drug decriminalization on Tuesday. Can you talk about what’s at stake—in the country, the number of propositions, and in California?
DEBORAH SMALL: Well, thank you so much for having me on again today, Amy.
And I’m so happy, because I really think that we’re going to see positive results in the election next week and that all of the states that are considering legalizing marijuana are going to approve it, and that that’s going to be a major blow in our campaign to dismantle the war on drugs, because, contrary to public opinion, you know, the war on drugs really is substantially a war on weed. More than half of all drug arrests in the country every year are for marijuana possession charges or marijuana-related charges. So, making this move to legalize recreational use of marijuana for the majority of Americans around the country is going to substantially reduce the ability of law enforcement to use marijuana law enforcement as a target, particularly in communities of color and particularly among youth of color. In our view, in many cases, the arrest for marijuana possession acts as a sort of Head Start to prison for youth of color, because it begins the process of having them come into contact with the criminal justice system, having their names and fingerprints entered into databases. It makes them much more likely to be under surveillance and much more likely to be arrested again subsequently for other activities.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Deborah, why are so many of marijuana growers in California opposed to this particular referendum? And how do you respond to their charges that this is going to basically corporatize the sale of marijuana and allow major businesses to push—not only to push out small growers of marijuana, but also to make the price of marijuana too high for low-income people?
DEBORAH SMALL: Well, I mean, to be honest, I think one of the reasons that many of the growers currently are opposed to the initiative is because they’ve been operating in sort of a quasi-legal status for a while, which means that in many places they haven’t had to face a lot of regulation and a lot of taxes. But what I think it’s important for people to know is that California passed a comprehensive series of state regulations last year to govern the medical marijuana industry, which is going to get carried forward into the recreational industry. But most of these growers would be facing increased cost and increased regulations regardless of whether or not Prop 64 passes, because the state has finally decided that they want to fully bring the industry out of the shadow and actually control it. So—and that, of course, for some people, is going to be problematic, but Prop 64 actually anticipates that, in that it bans large-scale cultivation for the first five years, in an effort to make it possible for smaller growers to actually be able to scale up and to be able to compete with larger cultivators when they’re able to come in.
AMY GOODMAN: Deborah Small, can you talk about the experience of Colorado? And has that influenced how this proposition was shaped?
DEBORAH SMALL: Yes, it has. I mean, I think that one of the things that we all feel really good about is that in drafting the California initiative, we really made an effort to learn from what happened in Washington state and Colorado, so that, contrary to what the No on 64 people say, the initiative will not allow advertising, either targeting children or others, on TV. There will be no marijuana ads on TV for youth or adults after Prop 64 is passed. We also included very strict safeguards around labeling and marketing, to make sure that all the products would be child-proof, that they’re going to be inspected by the Department of Public Health, and there will even be a limit on the amount of THC that can be included in edible products, in order to avoid the problem of accidental overdoses that they’ve seen in Colorado. So I think that, on that level, the California initiative actually moves forward in terms of protecting public health.
But from my perspective, what’s equally important is the fact that it, one, will allow for—it will substantially reduce penalties for all marijuana—what are currently crimes will now just be infractions. But more importantly, it has retroactive effect, so it means all the people who have previous marijuana convictions for things that no longer would be crimes under California law will be able to apply to have their records expunged. And people who are currently in jail for marijuana-related charges will be able to go to court and petition for release. And to me, as a person who’s focused on the impact of drug law enforcement and marijuana law enforcement on communities of color, this retroactive part is really important because of all of the ways in which an arrest record continues to haunt people throughout the rest of their lives.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And if Proposition 64 passes, how would it relate to federal law, which obviously the sale of marijuana is still a federal offense, especially in lieu of the fact that banks that are federally regulated would supposedly be providing loans to growers who want to establish marijuana businesses?
DEBORAH SMALL: Well, there’s the rub, because, quite frankly, one of the major problems that has been faced by businesses in Colorado and Washington and Oregon and Alaska is the fact that federal law still doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of marijuana, even for medical usage, which means that people can’t always use credit cards in their businesses, and they can’t open bank accounts. And we know that the DEA, just this past August, refused the petition to reschedule marijuana below Schedule 1, which would allow some liberality, some loosening of these regulations and restrictions.
So, one of the things that Prop 64, when it passes, will do is put more pressure on the federal government to begin to align its policy with the will of the people. We know that 57 percent of Americans support marijuana legalization. And a larger number of them support decriminalization. They don’t believe that people should be arrested for this. They don’t believe that it should be treated like a crime. And so, the fact that our federal government still maintains policies that treats marijuana worse than heroin and cocaine, and doesn’t allow legitimate businesses that are licensed and regulated in their states to operate legally, is a major problem. And we believe that the federal government will have to change, because this is a train that has left the station. The people are clearly in support of this. And so, the major problem is to get Congress and our federal officials to actually begin to, you know, accede to the demands of the people around this area.
AMY GOODMAN: So, we’re going to go—we’re going to go to some of the voices opposed, against Prop 64. This is the former drug policy adviser to President Obama, Kevin Sabet. He is president and CEO of Smart Approaches to Marijuana, or SAM. Here is Sabet talking with The Daily Signal.
KEVIN SABET: I don’t think young black men, or anybody, should get a criminal record for low-level use. You know, I don’t think that we should spend our law enforcement time jailing or imprisoning marijuana users. But to solve that problem, you don’t need to go to the other extreme of creating Big Tobacco 2.0. Make no mistake about it: Legalization is not about, you know, Cheech & Chong smoking marijuana or, you know, a Grateful Dead concert; it’s about creating the next Marlboro of our time, the next Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds, the Big Tobacco all over again. We are just coming out of a 100-year stupor from being lied to by the tobacco industry for a century about the effects on young people, on cancer, these candy cigarettes that they promised had nothing to do with kids, Joe Camel that they promised was focused on the, you know, 55-year-old white male smoker, which we know is wrong. And we finally got out of that. Why in the world would we want to create the same thing, just not Big Tobacco this time, Big Marijuana? I don’t get it. Some people think we got to do that to get rid of the disproportionate arrests. I say get rid of the disproportionate arrests. Don’t create Big Tobacco 2.0.
AMY GOODMAN: In another interview with BBC Newsnight, the president’s former drug policy adviser, Kevin Sabet, talked about the relationship between drug use and criminal activity.
KEVIN SABET: The issue is, you do not have to go to either criminalizing and throwing people in prison. I don’t think you should do that for people who are using any drugs. I think they absolutely need treatment. But we don’t want to increase the availability, promotion and commercialization that would absolutely come with this idea of legalization. ... There’s a very complex connection between crime and addiction, because a lot of people are committing crime to either fuel their drug habit, which they’re going to do anyway, whether it’s legal or not, or under the influence of drugs, which they’re going to do more, if it’s legal.
AMY GOODMAN: So that’s the former drug policy adviser to President Obama, Kevin Sabet. Deborah Small, your response?
DEBORAH SMALL: So, you know, it’s funny, because these are the same arguments that were made in '96, when Californians were considering Prop 215 to legalize medical marijuana. People said that it would increase use, that it would increase drugged driving, that it would create all kinds of problems, it would increase crime, etc. None of those things have happened. You know, one of the reasons that there is so much public support for these initiatives is that we've now had enough experience in enough states for people to actually understand that these arguments don’t work. And to say that, you know, having marijuana legalization is going to lead to Big Tobacco, all we have to do is look abroad at the other countries that have liberalized their marijuana laws to see that that’s not the case. I just came from Amsterdam last month. And, to me, that’s the future of marijuana legalization. And what I want people to know is that the future of marijuana legalization is boring. When you go into any place in Amsterdam, it’s the same as going to a restaurant or to a bar. People order weed the way they would order a glass of wine. They sit and use with their other adult friends in a completely responsible way. They’ve actually seen a decrease in addiction to harder drugs since the Netherlands liberalized their marijuana laws. They haven’t seen an increase in crime among youth or any other group. And because of regulation, they actually have better control over the products that people are accessing. So I think that Kevin Sabet is running a line that we’ve heard before, but which experience tells us is different.
And with respect to the harms associated with marijuana use, there are no drugs that people can use that don’t have some harms associated with them. That’s true whether or not you’re talking about coffee, tobacco, alcohol, Ambien or any number of other products that people put into their body.
But the issue here is: How do you promote responsible use? How do you promote moderate use? And quite frankly, none of that can be done in prohibition scheme. The whole problem with prohibition, in general, is that it drives people to use drugs in more dangerous ways. And while Kevin would like people to believe that the issue can be solved through decriminalization, I think that you, Amy and Juan, know, living in New York City, that decrim is not enough. New York decriminalized marijuana possession in 1977. In 1997 and 2007, New York City was leading the country in arresting people for marijuana possessions, because decrim alone is not enough. It’s only legalization that’s going to provide real protection for vulnerable people.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Deborah Small, we talked earlier about the conflict between federal law and some of these legalization initiatives. The Obama administration has basically chosen not to prioritize the enforcement of federal marijuana laws. What’s your sense of where the candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are on this issue?
DEBORAH SMALL: Well, I think that it’s pretty clear. I mean, Hillary has said that she actually supports medical marijuana, that she also supports the rescheduling of marijuana. I believe that she would respect the votes of voters around the country who voted in favor of either medical marijuana and/or recreational marijuana. Donald Trump, on the other hand, would bring back the war on drugs. He says that the big—one of the big problems that we’re facing is drug smuggling by Mexican immigrants. His first supporter was Governor LePage of Maine, who has engaged in his own local drug war in Maine that he has associated with blacks and Latinos, who, he claims, come to his state, bringing drugs, impregnating their women and generating the opioid crisis in that state. So I think that if you think about what they have said, who the people are around them, the policies that they support, it’s fairly clear that Donald Trump would greatly amplify the drug war and roll back many of the reforms that we’ve made over the last 10, five years, whereas Hillary Clinton would support the efforts of Black Lives Matter and other grassroots groups to actually prioritize criminal justice reform and roll back the war on drugs and have us redirect our resourced away from locking up and criminalizing people, towards providing public health and treatment for those who want and need it.
AMY GOODMAN: The Atlantic writes, "Recreational marijuana users can now legally light up a joint in states representing about 5 percent of the U.S. population. By the time Americans wake up on November 9, that percentage could be swelling to more than one-quarter." From 5 percent to a quarter. And so, what kind of pressure does that put then on the federal government?
DEBORAH SMALL: Well, I think it puts a lot of pressure on the federal government to both acknowledge and respect, you know, the voice of the people that’s been expressed through these various initiatives. And quite frankly, it also puts pressure on them to change their position on the global war on drugs, because this is not just a U.S. phenomenon. And I know that you’ve been reporting about what’s happening in the Philippines and the war on drugs there, where the president is actively engaged in a campaign of extrajudicial killing of people who are deemed to be drug users or drug dealers. And the U.S. is directly responsible for that, because we exported the drug war to Philippines and all these other countries around the world. In the last five or six years, we’ve seen a real upsurge and a cry, particularly for Latin America, for us to re-examine our drug policies. Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay, Chile have all called on the U.S. to move towards a more public health approach for drugs. This is what these initiatives are also about. And so, it’s time for the federal government to listen both to the people here and to the people abroad, who have collectively said that the war on drugs is a colossal failure and that we need to repeal it and move to an approach to drug control that respects human rights and also protects public safety.
AMY GOODMAN: So, the states Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts and Nevada are with California in voting on legalizing the recreational use of marijuana, whether or not to, on Tuesday?
DEBORAH SMALL: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Florida, Arkansas, where do they fit in? North Dakota?
DEBORAH SMALL: Well, what we’re seeing in those states is, again, a movement towards liberalizing their laws to make medical marijuana more available to people. It’s pretty clear that within the next few years the vast majority of Americans are going to be living in states where they have a legal access to either medical and/or recreational marijuana, which is going to represent a major sea change in our approach to dealing with drugs in this country. It’s going to be really hard to maintain a level of criminalization and a focus on drug law enforcement when the majority of Americans believe that they have a legal right to this. And then, we then will confront the question of whether or not we’re going to continue to use these laws as a tool to target minorities and other vulnerable populations, because the truth is that for the majority of Americans with money and status and, quite frankly, who don’t look like me, marijuana has been legal for them all along. So this is really about having the laws comport and making sure that everybody in America has equal rights and everyone is treated equally under the law.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we want to thank you very much, Deborah Small, for being with us, founder of Break the Chains: Communities of Color and the War on Drugs. We’ll link to your piece in The Root, "How We Can Reap Reparations from Marijuana Reform." Longtime advocate for drug decriminalization and legalization.
Voices from NYC's Most Notorious Jail: Former Prisoners Speak Out About Abuse at Rikers Island
A new PBS documentary, "Rikers," brings you face to face with men and women who have survived incarceration at New York City’s largest and most notorious jail. Their stories are told directly to the camera without any additional narration. A dozen former inmates vividly describe the cruel arc of the Rikers experience—from the trauma of entering the island to the extortion and control exercised by other inmates, to the harrowing interactions with corrections officers. They also detail the beatings and stabbings, the torture of solitary confinement and the psychological difficulties of re-entering the outside world. For more, we’re joined by award-winning independent filmmaker Marc Levin, director of the new documentary, "Rikers."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We spend the rest of the hour looking at New York City’s Rikers Island, one of the largest jails in the United States. On Tuesday, ABC7 here in New York aired exclusive video of a 36-year-old man named Rolando Perez, who died in his Rikers jail cell in 2014 after being denied anti-seizure medication. This is a part of ABC7’s report.
RIKERS INMATE: Let them know that the officer refused his medical attention.
CAROLINA LEID: In this exclusive video obtained by Eyewitness News, you can hear inmates telling investigators they heard Mr. Perez screaming for his medication, pills he relied on since he was 16 years old to control a severe seizure disorder. The 36-year-old died in solitary confinement after getting into a fight with another inmate. He was under arrest for petty burglary back in January 2014. He had not been convicted of a crime. An autopsy found he died of a severe seizure and heart problems.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Rolando Perez was being held at Rikers for the suspicion of robbing a television. His family is now suing New York City.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we turn now to a new documentary called Rikers. It brings you face to face with men and women who have survived incarceration at New York City’s largest and most notorious jail. Their stories are told directly to the camera without any additional narration. A dozen former prisoners vividly describe the cruel arc of the Rikers experience—from the trauma of entering the island to the extortion and control exercised by other prisoners, to the harrowing interactions with corrections officers. They also detail the beatings, the stabbings, the torture of solitary confinement and the psychological difficulties of re-entering the outside world. This is the trailer for Rikers.
RAYMOND YU: It was the daytime, but it felt dark.
DAMIEN STAPLETON: It’s so much stuff going through my mind, but the main thing is hoping that I do make it out.
RAYMOND YU: It looked like a monster, like we were about to go into the belly of a beast.
SHIRAY WILLIAMS: Once you’re there—it’s easy to get there, but it’s hard as hell to get out.
RALPH NUNEZ: It’s gladiator school, for real.
MARCELL NEAL: Complete upside-down kingdom. Everything that means something to us here doesn’t mean [bleep] there.
BARRY CAMPBELL: It was total chaos. It was violence.
RALPH NUNEZ: I was scared.
KATHY MORSE: I was literally cowering in the corner.
MARCELL NEAL: The worse you do, the bigger you are.
REV. HÉCTOR BIENVENIDO CUSTODIO: I’ve seen men rape other men.
RALPH NUNEZ: If you get there and you don’t have a weapon to defend yourself, you have an issue.
CANDIE HAILEY-MEANS: I was screaming, "Help me! Help me! They’re raping me! They’re raping me!"
SHIRAY WILLIAMS: I was literally hogtied.
RAYMOND YU: They were just kicking me.
ROBERT HINTON: And broke my nose.
RAYMOND YU: And spitting on me.
ROBERT HINTON: And broke a bone on my back.
TARIQ BARNES: It’s madness.
ISMAEL NAZARIO: My sanity was chipped away, little by little.
RALPH NUNEZ: Solitary confinement is rough, man. You can really go crazy.
REV. HÉCTOR BIENVENIDO CUSTODIO: You start befriending the roaches and the rats.
MARCELL NEAL: I started to feel like an animal.
REV. HÉCTOR BIENVENIDO CUSTODIO: I actually contemplated suicide.
My name is Reverend Héctor Bienvenido Custodio.
ISMAEL NAZARIO: Ismael Nazario.
DAMIEN STAPLETON: Damien James Stapleton.
KATHY MORSE: Kathy Morse.
MARCELL NEAL: Marcell Neal.
BARRY CAMPBELL: Barry Campbell.
RAYMOND YU: Raymond Yu.
RALPH NUNEZ: For all of you who have been here, you already know what to expect. For those of you who have not been here before, tighten your pants.
AMY GOODMAN: That was the trailer for the new public television WNET 13 documentary Rikers. It will have its broadcast premiere on November 15th here in New York City on channel 13, public television in New York.
For more, we’re joined by the award-winning independent filmmaker Marc Levin, director of the new documentary Rikers.
Marc Levin, welcome to Democracy Now! You worked with Bill Moyers and Mark Benjamin on this film. Talk about what this film is all about. What inspired you to do this?
MARC LEVIN: Well, this was really an idea of Bill’s, who I’ve known for many years. But the basic idea was, as you said, face to face, to hear for the first time exclusively from people who had survived Rikers Island, without any news people interfering or officials or politicians. It’s really to hear them. And I would say it’s really—Rikers is a symbol of, obviously, a criminal justice system that is dysfunctional. And we have this idea of criminals, and we’ve criminalized so many people. I mean, that’s what the documentary 13th was about. And here you have a chance to kind of humanize, rehumanize: Who are these people that we’re putting away? And as you just said in the tragic report you just had up there, 80 percent of them have not even been convicted of a crime yet. They’re waiting to see, either to go to trial or plea bargain. So, that was the idea of this film, is to allow people to experience what it’s like to be on Rikers Island.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And how did you decide on the inmates that you would use in the film, the process of making it?
MARC LEVIN: Well, with my partner Mark Benjamin and our producer Rolake Bamgbose, we probably met over a hundred people who had been on Rikers between the late ’70s and all the way to this year. And out of that, just a natural kind of winnowing down to about 12 who ended up being the main characters. But we talked to, obviously, a lot of people.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to a clip of Rikers where former detainees describe the culture of violence there.
RALPH NUNEZ: It’s gladiator school, for real. If you get there and you don’t have a weapon to defend yourself, you have an issue.
BARRY CAMPBELL: Violence rules. Predator-prey. That [bleep] never changes.
DEDRIC HAMMOND: I’m in a situation where I can’t run from. But my whole time in the streets, that’s all I ever been doing, is fighting. So I’m looking like I’m in a place where I always trained for but just didn’t know it.
MYSONNE LINEN: The sad part is, the alternative to violence is more violence. And when somebody realizes that you’re willing to be more violent than they are, they are less the prone to be violent.
MARCELL NEAL: They taught me how to use a level of violence that I’ve never—I could never imagine I was capable of doing.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about this, Marc Levin.
MARC LEVIN: Well, I think this is one of the main issues. We think we’re putting people away on this penal colony, and out of sight, out of mind, but basically it’s a university of crime. It’s an accelerant of misery. It makes things worse. The price we’re paying—we talk about the cost, but the price we’re paying, in terms of sending young people, mostly young people of color, away and them coming out worse off than they went. If they’re going to survive, they’ve got to be part of this notorious culture of violence. And that is frightening.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Marc Levin, one of the—the culture of violence that you mention, obviously, the prison guards themselves have to have been major participants in allowing this to happen. One of the interesting things that I’ve always found fascinating is that the Correction Officers’ Association there is a very powerful institution. It’s largely African-American and Latino corrections officers. The leader, Norman Seabrook, was just indicted by federal authorities on corruption charges and ousted. But Norman Seabrook wielded enormous power in protecting his members, the members of his union, from any kinds of charges against the kind of brutality that is so rampant at Rikers.
MARC LEVIN: Absolutely, Juan. I mean, that’s one of the issues that officials are struggling with now. I think they’ve made some progress. As you know, there was a trial recently where a number of officers were convicted for abuses. As you said, Seabrook himself has been indicted. It’s a struggle, because the irony is that many of the corrections officers are from the same communities. Sometimes even they know or are related to, as, in our film Rikers, Marcell Neal talks about his relatives who were corrections officers and how he used to wink and kind of hide that he was related to people. So, it’s a complex situation, but there’s no doubt that changing the culture of violence means changing how corrections officers are trained and disciplined.
AMY GOODMAN: How—what is the history of Rikers?
MARC LEVIN: The history? It’s a landfill that, you know—
AMY GOODMAN: In the East River.
MARC LEVIN: Yeah, exactly. I mean, that’s a—you know, that’s the big question right now, is: Is the history so cursed and the karma of this place just so dark, that it can’t be changed and it’s got to be closed down? And certainly a lot of advocates feel that way. Or can it be so—can we reduce the number of detainees there so much that it doesn’t make financial sense anymore to run an institution there?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: There has been a sharp reduction in the inmate population, right?
MARC LEVIN: Absolutely.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: At one point it was around 16,000. Now it’s down.
MARC LEVIN: The peak was almost 18,000 to 20,000 during the crack era, late '80s and early ’90s. It's now down to about 7,500. So, I mean, I think that’s the key thing here. First, how do you prevent people—you just mentioned the guy that robbed the television set. He’s dead now. How do you prevent people like that? What are alternative sentences? Two, what kind of bond bail reform is needed, so somebody—I know you’re going to have Kalief’s brother in here—for bail of a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars, can get that money and doesn’t end up being locked up? Then, what kind of programming do you have for people who are locked up there, many of them with mental health issues? And finally, on the re-entry side, what do you do when people get out and who have had to survive that?
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to another clip from the documentary Rikers.
MARCELL NEAL: When I became a Blood, now it was more so I had an authority. Now I am the authority. And that culture is just very much different, because it’s like the worse you do, the bigger you are. At that point, we weren’t the strongest. We weren’t the most—it was a gang that was bigger than us. There was a Hispanic gang, the Latin Kings. They were the majority. We were the minority. I ended up putting a lot to work. And by putting to work, I mean a lot of physical contact, a lot of violence, a lot of stabbings, a lot of cuttings. So now, when I say jump, that was for real. That was you’re going to jump. And if you don’t do it, I’ve got 35 other people in here that’s going to make you do it.
REV. HÉCTOR BIENVENIDO CUSTODIO: When the Bloods relocated, they was putting fear in a lot of people. It was very few of our people who stood their ground.
FIVE MUALIMM-AK: And it became this whole type of system that was with the Latin gangs 10 years prior, was now with the Bloods and the Crips and other gangs, where they had control and the officers gave them power, gave them drugs, gave them influence, right? And the COs always was the oppositional gang. Whether they was a secret member of this gang, they was an entire gang themselves. And that’s the way they portrayed themselves.
NARRATION: There is a uniformed officer for nearly every detainee at New York City jails.
DAMIEN STAPLETON: There’s a saying that it doesn’t matter if you have a uniform on—right?—which is that says "correction officer" or one that says "inmate." You’re still doing time.
JASBIR SINGH: Well, being an inmate and being a CO is like a very thin line. Time stops for them, too, when they come to Rikers Island. There’s only one bridge in and one bridge out. There’s some COs that are real cool. You know, there are some COs that really understand the system, and they try to prevent these young people from coming back by talking to them.
DAMIEN STAPLETON: The majority of the officers on Rikers Island are minorities. They come from where we come from. They grew up where we grew up at. Somehow they just never made it to prison.
MARCELL NEAL: My aunts and my sister, captives on Rikers Island. And my dad and my mom, federal court officers. Because I couldn’t tell anybody I was related to this person, I would just see, you know, family in the corridor while I’m going to eat, and just give them the wink.
JOHNNY PEREZ: You know, I done bought drugs from correction officers, who told me they’re going to send me to the box if I don’t pay them, you know, things like that. And all of that made me say, "Well, you know, you’re just like me. You know, we’re all criminals in here."
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Obama: Army Corps Considering Rerouting Dakota Access Pipeline
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President Obama says the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is considering rerouting the $3.8 billion Dakota Access pipeline, amid months of resistance from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and members of more than 200 other Native American nations and tribes from across the Americas.
President Barack Obama: "My view is that there is a way for us to accommodate sacred lands of Native Americans. And I think that right now the Army Corps is examining whether there are ways to reroute this pipeline in a way. So, we’re going to let it play out for several more weeks and determine whether or not this can be resolved in a way that I think is properly attentive to the traditions of the first Americans."
During his interview with the news outlet NowThis News, President Obama also addressed the issue of the harsh police crackdown against the resistance movement, which has included riot police deploying tear gas, mace, pepper spray, bean bag rounds and rubber bullets against the Native American water protectors.
President Barack Obama: "I want to make sure that as everybody is exercising their constitutional rights to be heard, that both sides are refraining from situations that might result in people being hurt."
TOPICS:
Cost of Policing Dakota Access Pipeline Protests Swells to $10 Million
Obama’s comments come as, on Tuesday, North Dakota officials approved an additional $4 million for policing—bringing the total cost of the police crackdown to $10 million. On Monday night, oil was poured on the North Dakota state Capitol building, along with a sign reading "You can’t drink oil." Meanwhile, in New York City, hundreds of people protesting the Dakota Access pipeline flooded Grand Central Station during rush hour, holding banners reading "Indigenous Sovereignty: Protect Land and Water."
TOPICS:
#NoDAPL: Protector Red Fawn Fallis Charged with Attempted Murder
In more news on the Dakota Access pipeline, authorities have charged water protector Red Fawn Fallis with attempted murder and a slew of other charges stemming from the standoff on October 27, when hundreds of police raided a frontline resistance camp. Authorities say Fallis fired three shots during the standoff. She faces up to 20 years in prison. This comes after Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier said he could not confirm any shots were fired by water protectors on October 27.
TOPICS:
Report: Trump Companies Destroyed Documents Amid Court Proceedings
In election news, a Newsweek investigation has revealed Donald Trump’s companies have defied court orders and destroyed or concealed thousands of pages of emails and documents amid lawsuits involving Trump companies. The investigation reveals Trump’s destruction of documents goes back to at least 1973, when Trump and his father were fighting the federal government over charges their real estate company was discriminating against African Americans by refusing to rent apartments to black families.
TOPICS:
FBI Tweets Docs from 2001 Probe into Bill Clinton Pardon
The FBI is continuing its investigation into a batch of Hillary Clinton emails that were recently found on the computer of former Congressmember Anthony Weiner, the estranged husband of top Clinton aide Huma Abedin. Weiner is under investigation after he sent illicit sext messages to an underage girl. The FBI’s opening of this investigation so close to Election Day has sparked controversy. Meanwhile, on Monday, the FBI released 129 pages of documents from its 2001 investigation into former President Bill Clinton’s presidential pardon of hedge funder Marc Rich, who fled to Switzerland after he was indicted on tax evasion and other federal charges. Clinton pardoned Rich on his last day in office. The pardon was investigated because Rich’s ex-wife had donated $100,000 to Hillary Clinton’s Senate campaign, as well as $450,000 to Clinton’s presidential library foundation. The investigation was closed in 2005 with no charges filed. The redacted documents related to this investigation were tweeted out Tuesday by the FBI’s Twitter handle, which had been inactive for a year until this past week. The FBI has also released and then tweeted out a file on Donald Trump’s father, Fred Trump, on October 30.
TOPICS:
NYT: Early Voting by African Americans Down Compared to 2012
In more campaign news, a New York Times investigation of early voting patterns shows the African-American vote is down compared to 2012. An analysis of early voting in Florida shows that turnout is lower than the state average in the five counties with the highest percentage of African-American voters. The analysis did show, however, that voting is up from 2012 among Latino voters.
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Iraqi Military Enters Mosul, Takes Control of Mosul TV Station
The Iraqi military says U.S.-backed Iraqi special forces have entered the city limits of Mosul as part of its campaign to retake control of the city from ISIS. The United States is backing the Iraqi army with both U.S. special forces on the ground, as well as U.S. airstrikes. On Tuesday, the Iraqi military said it has taken control of Mosul’s television station.
Talib Shaghati: "Our troops entered the Mosul TV station. The Mosul TV station is very significant. It means the city of Mosul. And this is good news for the people of Mosul, indicating that the real operation to liberate Mosul has begun."
The United Nations is warning as many as 1 million civilians could be displaced amid the fighting for control of Mosul—leading to what could become the largest humanitarian crisis in Iraq’s history.
TOPICS:
Morocco: 11 Arrested over Fish Seller Mouhcine Fikri's Death
In Morocco, 11 people have been arrested in connection with the death of fish seller Mouhcine Fikri, who was crushed to death in the compactor of a garbage truck while he was trying to retrieve fish confiscated by police. His death has sparked massive protests across Morocco. People are drawing parallels to Tunisian fruit seller Mohamed Bouazizi in 2010, whose death sparked the Arab Spring uprisings. Moroccan authorities have ruled Fikri’s death a homicide and charged the 11 arrested people with involuntary manslaughter and forgery of public documents. Click here to see our full interview with Moroccan-Dutch professor Miriyam Aouragh.
Fighting Between India and Pakistan Kills 13 Civilians
Fighting is continuing along the border between India and Pakistan in the disputed region of Kashmir. India says at least seven civilians were killed Tuesday on the India-controlled side, while Pakistan says six more civilians were killed on the Pakistan-controlled side on Monday. Fighting between the two sides has been escalating for weeks, forcing thousands to evacuate and causing the deaths of at least 28 civilians over the last 10 days.
France: Officials Demolish Calais Refugee Camp, Despite Protests
In France, authorities are continuing to clear and demolish the Calais refugee camp, known as "The Jungle." Hundreds of the remaining 1,500 asylum seekers, most of whom are children and teenagers, are being forced onto buses and sent to undisclosed locations across France today. Tuesday night, police in riot gear used tear gas against some of the asylum seekers protesting the demolition of the camp. Meanwhile, in Paris, police are cracking down on refugee encampments that have been growing as the Calais camp is shut down by authorities. On Monday just before dawn, riot police evicted thousands of refugees from their encampment near a Paris metro station. This is Afghan refugee Sakib Dawood.
Sakib Dawood: "Nobody’s happy, and nobody wants to stay here. You know, it is not polite, it is not OK. If you don’t have a home, you’re homeless. The weather is cold, and nobody wants to stay in the street."
Venezuela: Opposition Drops Symbolic Trial Against President Maduro
In Venezuela, President Nicolás Maduro scored a political victory Tuesday when the opposition-led National Assembly announced it had suspended its symbolic trial against Maduro on charges he had been derelict in his duties as president. The opposition also canceled an anti-government march planned for Thursday. This comes after Maduro’s government released five opposition activists from jail on Monday. Talks between the government and the opposition are planned for November 11.
TOPICS:
Iowa: 2 Police Officers Shot and Killed in "Ambush-Style Attacks"
In Iowa, authorities say two police officers have been shot and killed in what police are describing as "ambush-style attacks" early today. The first shooting occurred around 1 a.m. in Urbandale, a suburb of Des Moines. About a half-hour later, a second officer was found dead in Des Moines, about a five-minute drive away from the site of the first shooting. The shootings are under investigation.
New York: Workers Detained in ICE Raid in Rochester Launch 7-Day March
And in New York state, a group of undocumented workers has launched a week-long march to protest raids by the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency in Buffalo, New York. The group is known as the Buffalo 25—25 undocumented workers who were detained after ICE raided four Mexican restaurants earlier this month. At least four of the Buffalo 25 are currently wearing GPS ankle monitors used by ICE. Last week, eight migrant justice activists were arrested after they blocked the entrance to the ICE office in downtown Buffalo. Churches across Buffalo have also opened their doors, offering sanctuary to undocumented workers in the wake of the raids. This is Leticia, one of the workers detained during the ICE raids.
Leticia: "What was my surprise? I found my house upside down, destroyed. My children, all four, were born here. They took my children’s documents, which are the most important to us. They took all of our savings for college. It was about $9,000 to $10,000, and that was for college for my daughter. My daughter is strong, but I’m starting to see her waver. She says not to worry, that she’ll start working soon."
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