Democracy Now! Daily Digest: A Daily Independent Global News Hour with Amy Goodman & Juan González for Friday, November 11, 2016 democracynow.org
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Millions Sign Onto Call for Electoral College to Award the Presidency to Popular Vote Winner Clinton
AMY GOODMAN: "Democracy" by Leonard Cohen. The great singer-songwriter died at his home in Los Angeles at the age of 82. I last saw him live at Radio City Music Hall in 2013, just an astonishing performance. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. ... Read More →
Where Do We Go from Here? Former Bernie Sanders Adviser & Chicana Organizer Call for Mass Organizing
AMY GOODMAN: "Everybody Knows" by Leonard Cohen, who has just died at the age of 82. The great singer-songwriter died at his home in Los Angeles. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. ... Read More →
Will Trump's Immigration Crackdown Be a "Cash Machine" for Military & Private Prison Contractors?
AMY GOODMAN: Seth Freed Wessler, we want to thank you for being with us from The Investigative Fund. William Hartung, director of the Arms and Security Project at the Center for International Policy. ... Read More →
"They Knew What was at Stake": 2016 Latino Voter Turnout Higher for Clinton Than for Obama in 2012
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Right. Right, many more, because there was a big turn into the independent candidates, obviously, between Jill Stein and Johnson. They took about 6 million, 7 million votes between them. So I think that that was another significant aspect of it, as well. ... Read More →
Allan Nairn Returns to East Timor on 25th Anniversary of Dili Massacre When U.S. Weapons Killed 270+
AMY GOODMAN: Allan Nairn, we’re going to do Part 2 of this conversation after the broadcast. Thanks for joining us. Allan Nairn, speaking to us from Dili, East Timor. ... Read More →
Headlines:
Stories:
Millions Sign Onto Call for Electoral College to Award the Presidency to Popular Vote Winner Clinton
The 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton leads the popular vote by hundreds of thousands of ballots, but she lost the Electoral College to Republican Donald Trump. The last time this type of outcome occurred was in the 2000 Bush vs. Gore presidential race. Meanwhile, electoral reform initiatives are underway to get states to adopt the National Popular Vote bill. The legislation could transform the way we elect the president of the United States. Under the compact for a national popular vote, states across the country have pledged to award their electoral votes to the presidential candidate who wins the nationwide popular vote. If enough states sign on, it would guarantee the presidency goes to the candidate who wins the most votes across the country. The compact will kick in only when enough states have signed on to reach a threshold of 270 electoral votes. We are joined by John Koza, chair of National Popular Vote.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to continue to look at what the votes break down as they come out, but we’re going to start off by looking at the fact that the loser won.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Right. Well, "We can’t let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!" That was the response from Donald Trump after the 2012 election, when he incorrectly thought Mitt Romney had won the popular vote against Barack Obama. His final word on the subject from that night read, quote, "The electoral college is a disaster for democracy."
Well, fast-forward to 2016: Hillary Clinton is leading the popular vote by hundreds of thousands of ballots, but she lost the Electoral College to Donald Trump. For the fifth time in the nation’s history and the second time this century, a presidential candidate has won the White House while losing the popular vote. On Wednesday, Academy Award-winning filmmaker and activist Michael Moore wrote on Facebook, quote, "The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump. The only reason he’s president is because of an arcane, insane 18th-century idea called the Electoral College. Until we change that, we’ll continue to have presidents we didn’t elect and didn’t want."
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, Lady Gaga has urged people to sign a petition titled "Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19." It calls on the electors to ignore the current rules, which bind them to voting for the winner of their state, and cast their ballots instead for the winner of the popular vote, Hillary Clinton. The electors will meet next month. So far, more than 2 million people have signed the petition.
Meanwhile, electoral reform initiatives are underway to get states to adopt the National Popular Vote bill. On Monday, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo signed legislation that recommits New York to the compact past its 2018 expiration date. The legislation could transform the way we elect the president of the United States. Under the compact for a national popular vote, states across the country have pledged to award their electoral votes to the presidential candidate who wins the nationwide popular vote, not their state. If enough states sign on, it would guarantee the presidency goes to the candidate who wins the most votes across the country. The compact will kick in only when enough states have signed on to reach a threshold of 270 electoral votes. It would prevent scenarios like what happened on Tuesday between Clinton and Trump, and in 2000, when Al Gore won the popular vote but still lost the election to George W. Bush.
Well, for more, we’re going to Stanford, California, where we’re joined by John Koza, chair of National Popular Vote, consulting professor at Stanford University in computer science and electrical engineering. Koza is the former CEO of Scientific Games.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, John. Can you please explain what has happened? A lot of people, I think, are scratching their heads. I still don’t think most people understand the Electoral College. What do you mean Hillary Clinton is winning by hundreds of thousands of votes right now—of course, all the votes haven’t been counted—but she still lost?
JOHN KOZA: Well, thank you, Amy. The problem comes from state laws that award all of the state’s electoral votes to the candidate who gets the most popular votes inside each particular state. So the fact that Donald Trump got 1 percent more of the popular vote in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Michigan meant that he got all of those electoral votes, and that constitutes his winning margin in the Electoral College, even though he’s behind in the nationwide popular vote among the people of all 50 states.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain how the Electoral College votes. And this call Lady Gaga is making, explain what it is she’s calling for electors to do and who these electors are, who will not exactly personally meet, but will cast their votes in December.
JOHN KOZA: Well, the electors are generally activists of their political party. So, Donald Trump, at the moment, is going to get at least 279 of the 538 electors. Those 279 people are active Republicans, either officeholders, former officeholders, party officials, maybe donors—people who are very devoted to the Republican Party. And there’s very little history that indicates that any more than zero or one of these 279 electors would ever deviate from their party’s nominee. So, when the Electoral College meets on December 19th, Donald Trump will probably get 100 percent of the 279 Republicans who are committed to vote for him.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, isn’t it possible, given the reality that the Electoral College basically prejudices the smaller states, because every state has at least two senators, and some of them just have one congressman or two congressmen, versus California, New York or the others, so they always have a disproportionate share—isn’t it possible that we may be entering an era of more of this, because we’re now facing the fact that six out of the eight last presidential elections were won—the Democrats won the popular vote, but they won only four of the eight actual Electoral College votes now; we’ve had two of these now over the last couple of decades—and given the increasing concentration of populations in some of these big states, that we may be facing more of this in presidential elections to come?
JOHN KOZA: Well, we’re definitely going to have more of this, because we’re in an era of relatively close presidential elections. In the last eight consecutive elections, the average nationwide margin has been 5 percent or less. So, we can expect, if that trend continues, to see the Electoral College producing a different winner than the national popular vote. And that, I think, is a fairly safe prediction.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to clarify, when I talked about Lady Gaga, she was just retweeting a petition at Change.org that was calling for this change. Now, what happens in December? People—how do they meet? They don’t physically meet, right, Professor Koza?
JOHN KOZA: They do physically meet up. They go to their state capitols. So, the 20 Trump electors that were elected Tuesday in Pennsylvania will all go to Harrisburg, and they will all dutifully cast their personal electoral vote for Donald Trump. And he’ll end up with 279 of the 538 electors, and therefore he’ll become president.
AMY GOODMAN: But they don’t all meet together from all over the country. So explain how the Electoral College came into place, and talk about what you are advocating for, National Popular Vote.
JOHN KOZA: Well, the Electoral College is probably outdated. It certainly is not what the founders intended. They intended an aristocratic group, small group of noblemen, basically, who would wisely decide who the president is. That went out the window in 1796 in the nation’s first competitive presidential election. The problem we have with the Electoral College is not the existence of the Electoral College. It’s the state winner-take-all laws that give all of a state’s electors to the candidate who gets a bare plurality of the vote inside that particular state. So the fact that Trump carried Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan by a hair, even though he was losing the people’s vote across the country in all 50 states, meant that—means that he gets all of the electors from those three states.
Now, under the National Popular Vote proposal, which is now law in 11 states, those states, when we have enough states that have a majority of the electors—that is, 270—those laws go into effect. And they will award all of those electors to the candidate who gets the most popular votes in all 50 states. And that’s what would guarantee the White House to the candidate who gets the most popular votes in all 50 states. Now, this legislation is already law in 11 states, having 165 electoral votes. It needs states with 105 more electoral votes to become law in time for the 2020 election.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John Koza, what states do you see as most likely or the most fertile area to be able to reach that 105 target now that you need?
JOHN KOZA: Well, in the last few years, this proposal has been—has become quite bipartisan. So, for example, the latest state legislative chamber to pass this proposal was the Arizona House, where two-thirds of the Republicans and two-thirds of the Democrats sponsored the bill. It also passed recently in the Oklahoma Senate and—excuse me—the Republican-controlled New York Senate. So, in the last couple of years, there’s been increasing bipartisan support from both parties to change the system.
And the real motivation for the change was not primarily this issue of whether the candidate with fewer votes ends up in the White House, although that’s very, very important, obviously, but the fact that most of the states are ignored in the presidential campaign. Virtually all of the presidential campaign that ended Tuesday was conducted in just 12 states. And that was the same in 2012. A hundred percent of the campaign events in 2012 after the nominating conventions were in just 12 states. Governor Walker put it very bluntly about a year ago when he said the nation, as a whole, is not going to elect the next president, 12 states are. So, one of—the biggest single problem with the current system is that most of the country is really politically irrelevant in selecting the president. Then, on top of it, when the 12 states that matter vote, the candidate who gets fewer popular votes nationwide can end up president. So, all in all, it’s an entirely bad system, but it’s a system that is based solely on state law and can be changed by changing these state laws.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, John Koza, what are you advocating for right now?
JOHN KOZA: We would like to see people contact their state legislators—these are the people that the Constitution gives the power to determine the method of electing the president—to get state legislators to get their state to sign on to the National Popular Vote bill.
AMY GOODMAN: John Koza, we want to thank you very much for being with us, chair of National Popular Vote, consulting professor at Stanford University in computer science and electrical engineering. This is Democracy Now! When we come back, how are people organizing right now around the country? Stay with us.
[break]
Where Do We Go from Here? Former Bernie Sanders Adviser & Chicana Organizer Call for Mass Organizing
As protests against President-elect Trump continued for a second night in cities across the United States, there are increasing reports of threats against Latinos, Muslims, African Americans and members of the LGBTQ community, that many feel are a result of Trump’s rhetoric. We discuss the reaction by activists and organizers to Trump’s victory with Becky Bond, longtime progressive activist and former senior adviser on volunteer mobilization for the Bernie Sanders campaign. Her new book is "Rules for Revolutionaries: How Big Organizing Can Change Everything." We also go to the Facing Race conference in Atlanta, Georgia, where we are joined by Chicana feminist Jodeen Olguín-Tayler, social movement strategist and vice president at Demos. She helped organize protests here in New York at Trump Tower. She has helped organize protests in New York City leading up to and after the election, and helped to coordinate the #Our100 campaign’s letter to the nation with the co-founders of Black Lives Matter.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to the reaction by activists and organizers to Trump’s victory on Tuesday. Anti-Trump protests continued for the second night in a row on Thursday in cities across the country—New York, Philadelphia, Dallas, Oakland, Portland and more. Demonstrators took to the streets voicing fears that Trump’s political triumph would deal a blow to civil rights. This is a middle school teacher at a protest in Washington, D.C., who teaches immigrant [students].
MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER: A lot of them are really confused about these election results. So, after I explain to them how Trump, quote-unquote, "won," they ask me the same question: "Mr. E, will I get deported?" All of my periods ask me the same question. Are we going to deport them?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Adding to their fears are increased reports of threats against Latinos, Muslims, African Americans and members of the LGBTQ community, that many feel are a result of Trump’s rhetoric. Hundreds of people of color nationwide have reported being physically and verbally attacked, harassed, threatened and insulted in the wake of Donald Trump’s election Tuesday. At Southern Lehigh High School in Pennsylvania, students and the principal report white students calling their fellow black students "cotton pickers" and using the "heil Hitler" salute. At Royal Oak Middle School in Michigan, white students chanted "build a wall, build a wall." Another teacher posted on social media that a 10-year-old girl had to be picked up from school because a boy grabbed her vagina and then reportedly said that "if a president can do it, I can, too."
AMY GOODMAN: Multiple women reported not wearing a hijab outside out of fear, while others reported their hijabs being ripped from their heads while in public. In Woodland Hills, California, a 16-year-old girl told local media she was on her high school campus when a fellow student came up behind her and tried to rip her headscarf off and then told her, quote, "You shouldn’t be wearing that, you towelhead. You’re not American. This isn’t America," unquote. On a college campus outside Buffalo, New York, a black baby doll was found in an elevator with a rope around its neck, while in Wellsville, New York, a swastika and the words "MAKEAMERICA WHITE AGAIN" were spray-painted on a baseball dugout. Several LGBTQsuicide hotlines are reporting the number of calls has risen significantly since Tuesday, and that hotlines are seeking additional volunteers.
Activists are also calling for organized resistance against the Trump presidency. Groups, from Black Lives Matter to the Color of Change Political Action Committee to the ACLU, say they’re preparing for a short-term fight against Trump’s policies—long-term fight, I should say.
Well, for more, we’re joined by two guests. Becky Bond, longtime progressive activist, senior adviser on volunteer mobilization for the Bernie Sanders campaign. She has a new book out; it’s called Rules for Revolutionaries: How Big Organizing Can Change Everything. And joining us from Atlanta at the Facing Race conference is Jodeen Olguín-Tayler, a Chicano feminist at Demos, where she’s a social media strategist and vice president, helped organize protests here in New York at Trump Tower and also helped coordinate the #Our100 letter to the nation with the co-founders of Black Lives Matter and others to both critically evaluate Trump’s victory and also look at how to move forward.
We welcome you to Democracy Now! I wanted to begin right now with Becky Bond. What you see took place and what you think has to happen, Becky?
BECKY BOND: Well, I think a lot of us, most of us, are stunned. People are losing sleep over what happened on Tuesday night. But when we look at what’s been going on for the last year, it shouldn’t be too much of a surprise to understand how this happened. We have a Clinton campaign that wasn’t speaking to the real hurt that America was feeling, and wasn’t offering the radical solutions that we need to solve the urgent problems of our time. And what we think needs to happen now is not only do we need to resist, but we also need to rebuild our democratic institutions, because we saw the voters not just vote for Trump, but vote a resounding rejection of Clintonism and neoliberalism.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Jodeen Olguín-Tayler, can you—you’re having the conference now. What are the main topics that you’re dealing with there in terms of strategies ahead?
JODEEN OLGUÍN-TAYLER: We are talking about how to reckon with the fact that the majority, the vast majority, of people of color support a very different vision for this country. And we need to especially reckon with the fact that 53 percent of white women voted to have a sexual predator, a racist, be the president-elect of this country.
AMY GOODMAN: Jodeen, you were also in New York just before you went to Atlanta for this conference. The Skype has frozen, so we’re going to go to Becky for a minute. Becky, before Tuesday, the big discussion was the Republican Party had to re-create itself. In some ways, parts of it had died. Now, the Republican Party is, to say the least, just going to figure out how they’ll align themselves back together again, but they seem to be doing that very quickly. It’s the Democratic Party that people are saying, "Where will it go right now?" You have the Bernie Sanders wing and Elizabeth Warren and—and who else, would you say? And what is going to happen? You’re a close adviser to Bernie Sanders.
BECKY BOND: Well, you know, we have—for one thing, we have the vast majority of young people in this country. If the millennial vote had decided the outcome of the election, then Secretary Clinton would have won by a landslide. And so, what we have to look for is we have to look to the future, and we have to rebuild the Democratic Party in the United States.
One of the things in the book that I wrote with Zack Exley about our experiences on the campaign, called Rules for Revolutionaries, is that we learned on the Bernie Sanders campaign—is that people are just waiting to be asked to do something big, and they’re are not as interested in doing something small to win something small. But if you say, "We’re going to win big change," they’re willing to do a lot. And so we need to get millions of people involved in the process. And we need to get the white working class, we need to get African Americans, we need to get the Latino working class, and we need to build a coalition to actually win the changes that are going to improve people’s lives, people who ended up voting for Donald Trump because they didn’t believe that Clinton was actually going to change this country for the better. So we need to start that rebuilding now, and it starts by embracing a big organizing approach.
The Clinton campaign made a big mistake by not getting people involved in the campaign. They focused on consultants. They decided there were very few people in this country that actually needed to be persuaded in a few states. They took traditional constituencies for granted.
We need to have a big campaign that addresses all of the issues and that puts race at the core of the message to everyone, because if we don’t solve problems like structural racism, we’ll never solve income inequality. And that work needs to start now. And the good news is, a lot of people are out there. They’re saying, "What can I do?" Not just "How did this happen?" but "What do I do now?" And that’s one of the reasons why those of us on the Bernie campaign are really coming out right now to say, "Here’s what we got started. You tell us what you’re doing in the Black Lives Matter movement, what’s happening on the front lines on the Dakota Access pipeline." We need to bring these struggles together, and we need to fight for big things.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Jodeen, we have you back now. What do you say now, for instance, in the loyal opposition point of view that President Obama has espoused and that Hillary Clinton—that now it’s time to see what we can do to make President Trump succeed—what’s your response to that?
JODEEN OLGUÍN-TAYLER: Well, I would agree with Becky that there are millions of people in this country right now asking what they can do. And we are really pleased that there’s a—that there’s a resource for people from all over the country to come together and pledge to take action and to follow explicitly women of color’s leadership and a vision forward for this country that is a pro-immigrant, pro-woman vision, that includes a vision for black lives, an end to rape culture and an end to Islamophobia. Over a hundred women of color came together, and on the morning after the election we wrote a letter to this country, saying, "Here is a vision forward. Join us. Pledge to take action, not just in the first hundred hours, not just in the first hundred days, but beyond." And by signing that pledge, people are making themselves available to get information from all of those 100 organizations, led by women of color, to find out how it is that they can continue to take action, how it is that we can continue to stand together and protect—protect our immigrant communities, protect our Muslim brothers and sisters, and stand together for a country that needs to be led by women of color if it’s going to be a country that is working and good for all of us.
AMY GOODMAN: Donald Trump tweeted last night, "Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!" Jodeen, your response to that? I’m also seeing increasingly in the mainstream media, like on CNN, they’re talking about the "professional activists" who are getting out there, trying to delegitimize the level of protest around the country right now. That term, "professional activists."
JODEEN OLGUÍN-TAYLER: You know, I think that Donald Trump is very afraid and needs to be very afraid of a public that sees democracy as not a spectator sport, of people that believe that we need to be in the streets, we need to be able to govern ourselves, and that is the true spirit of democracy. Thousands and thousands of women, tens of thousands of women, in the weeks leading up to the election, who were women of color, survivors of sexual assault, took to the streets to protest the Trump tapes. And these were not professional activists. These were tens of thousands of women who came out to the streets within 36 hours’ notice, because we know how dangerous it is to have a racist sexual predator, someone who believes in authoritarian government, who doesn’t believe that our democracy must be and should be owned by all of us, as the president-elect. And we’re not professional protesters. We’re mothers. We’re sisters. We’re daughters. We’re people of this country. And I would love to be in a country where all elected officials see that the activism of people, the desire to participate in our democracy, is actually what this country needs.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Becky Bond, I’d like to ask you, if you could in just about 30 seconds or so, the move by—Bernie Sanders came out in support of having Keith Ellison of Minnesota become the new head of the Democratic National Committee to replace Donna Brazile, who’s actually just an interim head right now. Your sense of the importance of that, of removing the leadership of the Democratic Party that was responsible for this losing strategy in this election?
BECKY BOND: Job one is to replace the people responsible for the Clinton campaign debacle of the DNC and put in a true leader, like Keith Ellison, who speaks to the young people of this country, who speaks to the African-American community, who speaks to the working-class community. We need new leadership of the DNC. Keith Ellison needs to go in and clean house and then start rebuilding, so that we can have a wave election in 2018 and then replace Donald Trump in 2020.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you both for being with us, Becky Bond, Jodeen Olguín-Tayler, for joining us. Becky Bond’s new book is called Rules for Revolutionaries: How Big Organizing Can Change Everything. And thank you to Olguín-Tayler, who was in the streets in New York just two nights ago, now in Atlanta at the Changing—at the conference right now in Atlanta called Changing Race [sic], this—called Facing Race. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. We’ll be back in a minute.
[break]
Will Trump's Immigration Crackdown Be a "Cash Machine" for Military & Private Prison Contractors?
By now, global markets have rebounded after plummeting upon the news of Trump’s victory. Stocks of some companies surged, including the largest private prison contractor, Corrections Corporation of America—which recently changed its name to CoreCivic—whose shares are up 43 percent since Trump’s victory. GEOGroup, another private prison contractor, is up 21 percent. Meanwhile, stocks also surged for many military contractors, including Raytheon, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin and Boeing. We speak with William Hartung, director of the Arms and Security Project at the Center for International Policy, and Seth Freed Wessler, reporter with The Investigative Fund who has been following private detention centers.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: By now, global markets have rebounded after plummeting upon the news of Trump’s victory. Stocks of some companies surged, including the largest private prison contractor, Corrections Corporation of America, which recently changed its name to CoreCivic, and is up 43 percent since Trump’s victory. GEOGroup, another private prison contractor, is up 21 percent. Meanwhile, stocks also surged for many military contractors, including Raytheon, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by two guests. William Hartung is director of the Arms and Security Project at the Center for International Policy, his article for Huffington Post, "Trump’s Pentagon Plan Could Cost Almost $1 Trillion; Smart Diplomacy Would Be Cheaper, More Effective." Also here, Seth Freed Wessler, reporter with The Investigative Fund who’s been following private detention centers. His latest piece for The Nation is headlined "ICE Plans to Reopen the Very Same Private Prison the Feds Just Closed."
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! So, the night of the election, it looked like S&P was going way down, but there were certain industries that surged: private prisons and military contractors. Talk about the military contractors, Bill.
WILLIAM HARTUNG: Well, the contractors paid attention to what Trump was saying. And he gave a speech in October talking about increasing Pentagon spending—bigger Navy, bigger Army, bigger Marines, bigger Air Force, a Star Wars program. And it was pretty much tied to a proposal by the Heritage Foundation, which, as you mentioned, would cost close to a trillion dollars more over the next 10 years than the huge amount the Pentagon already had in store for itself. So they’re popping champagne corks. There was an article by Loren Thompson, who’s basically a paid flack for the industry masquerading as a journalist, who said, "Happy days are here again" for the defense industry. So I think our job is to make sure that that is not the case.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But how does Trump skew that with his claims that he’s against many more military interventions by the United States and these regime change policies of the Obama policy?
WILLIAM HARTUNG: Well, there’s no real logic, as is often the case, with Trump. He claims he doesn’t want regime change. He claims he can make the Pentagon more efficient. He wants allies to spend more. That would logically lead to lower Pentagon spending. But he’s kind of tied in with the neocons, with the industry. He seems to be taking a Ronald Reagan peace-through-strength argument. You can never spend enough on the Pentagon, then you decide how to use it. So, he’s made—he’s made the Pentagon a cash machine again for contractors. And I think, you know, those contradictions might be useful in trying to peel off some of his supporters, the ones who are reachable, to oppose some of these policies.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Seth Freed Wessler, what about the prison industry, and the private prison industry especially?
SETH FREED WESSLER: Well, immediately after it was clear that Trump had won, we saw the private prison companies CCA and GEO Group, their stocks just soar. And those are not things that happen out there in the economy on their own. They happen because people know that Donald Trump has run a campaign consistently describing what he will do and how he will treat immigrants. He’s been, actually, fairly clear about that. He said that he will deport millions of people. He says that he will repeal Obama’s executive actions that protect young undocumented immigrants, so-called DREAMers, from deportation. All of these people will be like—could be detained, if picked up by immigration authorities. And the size of our detention system is poised to grow.
The Trump campaign has also said that it wants to impose new mandatory minimum sentences on people who re-enter the country after deportation, adding—requiring that people who return to the United States are handed years-long sentences for that act of crossing the border, which, if legislation like that passes, will result in, you know, multiple new prisons having to be built. The Obama administration recently ordered the department—the Bureau of Prisons to begin closing federal private prisons. That’s very likely not to happen under a Trump administration. We’re likely to see the opposite of that: a growing population of noncitizens locked up in federal criminal facilities and immigration detention facilities. In the United States, federal private prisons are used to hold immigrants, both in the criminal side and in the civil detention side. Both of those systems are poised to grow, because Donald Trump has consistently promised to deport more people, to round people up.
And these are real threats. Communities around the country are gearing up to face a level of attack by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, restarting of things like workplace raids and using local police departments to nab undocumented immigrants and deport them, no matter what they have done or what they’re accused of. We now have news that Kris Kobach has joined the transition team for—
AMY GOODMAN: The Kansas secretary of state.
SETH FREED WESSLER: The Kansas secretary of state, who helped draft and push SB 1070 in Arizona, the law that has now been fought back in the courts. That sort of law, that allowed local police—it required local police to just ask everybody about their immigration status, made it a crime to be undocumented, that is the kind of thing that the federal government could do by itself all over the country.
AMY GOODMAN: So, when Trump becomes president, he could just reverse the Justice Department order to work with for-profit prisons in the federal system?
SETH FREED WESSLER: Yeah, it’s basically at this point going to be a question about how much space the Bureau of Prisons needs to lock people up. And if Trump gets what he wants, if he is locking up more noncitizens, the Bureau of Prisons is going to continue—very likely going to continue using that space. Now, there is an order in place. Obama has—the Justice Department has told the Bureau of Prisons to close these prisons, and there are several months now when some of these prisons could be emptied and closed. But what we just saw, under Obama, is that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which has now been expanding the size of its detention system already, went in and started using one of those very federal prisons that the Bureau of Prisons just shut down. And I think we’re likely to see more of that: prisons that might have been closed being repurposed or being used as they already were.
AMY GOODMAN: Rudy Giuliani, who is a key player right now for Donald Trump—the Daily News reported in July, on July 12th, that Rudy Giuliani’s law firm paid big money—was paid big money to lobby for the Corrections Corporation of America.
SETH FREED WESSLER: Yeah, and GEO Group put money into a PAC supporting Trump. I mean, it’s clear that there is a lot of support in both directions. But Trump ran on a policy about going after immigrants. And going after immigrants, deporting immigrants, locking immigrants up, that means detaining and incarcerating people. And that’s very likely to happen through private prisons.
"They Knew What was at Stake": 2016 Latino Voter Turnout Higher for Clinton Than for Obama in 2012
"Fewer people voted in this election than voted in 2012," notes Juan González, journalist and Democracy Now! co-host, but he argues that data from Latino Decisions shows the Latino turnout was actually higher than 2012 in Florida and other key states. Many precincts, including Miami-Dade, saw almost twice the turnout for Clinton than Obama. "They knew exactly what was at stake," González says.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Juan, you’ve been looking at the Latino vote in this week’s election.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, well, I’ve been trying to look at not only the Latino vote, the overall vote, to get a sense of what actually happened in this cataclysm that we had on Tuesday. And first of all, I think one thing that we have to understand is that fewer people voted in this election than voted in 2012, about 2 percent drop in the number of votes, and that actually Mitt Romney got more votes when he ran in 2012 than Donald Trump did. But significantly, Hillary Clinton’s total—vote totals dropped dramatically, about 5 million votes, even though she comes out now still with the majority of the popular vote.
But one of the narratives that’s been developing now, and we’ve heard it repeatedly now in the last few days, is that the failure of the Latino community to turn out in the surges of voting that people expected are a significant reason why she was not able to succeed. I want to tell you, looking at some of the data now, I believe that is a totally false narrative. The narrative that we’ve heard from the exit polls is that the Latino vote was 65 to 29 percent—65 percent for Clinton, 29 percent for Donald Trump. But, you know, there’s different ways to measure the actual turnout. One is through these exit polls—and we all know how great polling has been in recent years. The other is by the Census Bureau actually asking people, which it does a year after every presidential election, how you voted. That’s probably the most accurate way, but that won’t happen until next year. The third way, and the one that I’ve always been—felt is more important, is to actually look at the vote totals in those areas, in those voting precincts, where Latinos form a major portion—60, 70, 80, 90 percent of the electorate—and compare that. And when you do that, which is what Latino Decisions has done—and I urge you all to go to their website—you’ll find a completely different story.
For instance, let’s take Florida, which has been the big—the big story of the last few—of the last few days. You’ll find—they find that in areas like Kissimmee—I don’t know if we have Kissimee up there on the screen right now—in Central Florida, that you had two things happening. One is that the turnout in 2016 was much higher than it was in 2012, about 6 percent, 6 percent, 8 percent, 8 percent higher in all these precincts than in 2012, and secondly, that in many of those precincts, Hillary Clinton was at 80 percent of the vote, 78 percent, 80 percent of the vote, and not the 65 percent that we’re talking—that we’re hearing about. In Miami-Dade, which is probably the most conservative Latino community in the country, there was, again, highly increased turnout in most of the precincts there—6 percent, 9 percent, 7 percent, 16 percent increase in the vote over 2012. But more importantly, Hillary Clinton did far better than Obama, President Obama, did in these precincts in 2012. In many of the Miami-Dade precincts that were 95 or 97 percent Latino, Obama got 32 percent of the vote, 36, 28 and 42, whereas Clinton was in the 50s, 60s in the same precincts. So, not only was there a larger Latino vote in Florida, but it was much more for Hillary Clinton than in the previous election.
But Florida is only the worst case. When you start looking at the heavily Latino districts around the country, when you go to South Texas, in South Texas there was, most precincts, 10 percent more, 8 percent more, 9 percent more voting. Remember, this is in the context of 2 percent fewer Americans voting nationwide. And there again, all of the totals for Hillary Clinton were in the 70 to 80 percent. You go to Wisconsin, the Latinos in Wisconsin were voting for Hillary Clinton 83 to 90 percent.
And then, of course, I checked out New York City, which I know very well, last night in some of the major Latino precincts. In the South Bronx, the 84th Assembly District of the South Bronx, 6.6 percent increase in turnout, 93 percent for Hillary Clinton. In the 77th District of the West Bronx, 11.8 percent increase in turnout, 92 percent for Hillary Clinton. In the 72nd, in Washington Heights and Inwood, 14.5 percent increase in turnout from 2012, 90 percent for Hillary Clinton.
So, it’s clear to me, when you look at the actual turnout, not only was there a surge in the Latino community, but there was much higher vote than the 65 percent we’re hearing. Now, you can argue, well, maybe it’s all the Latinos in the—either they’re out in the suburbs or not in the major cities, that are somehow miraculously voting in a different way from the Latinos in the rest of the country. Logic defies that. I think the Latinos were paying attention to the race, to the statements of Donald Trump. They knew exactly what was at stake. And they came out in larger numbers. The problem is white Americans voted—first of all, fewer of them voted, and then, not only did fewer of them vote, but more of them voted for Donald Trump than had been expected.
AMY GOODMAN: And as you pointed out, the overall numbers, fewer people voted for Donald Trump than for Mitt Romney.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Than for Mitt Romney, right.
AMY GOODMAN: And fewer people voted for Hillary Clinton than for Mitt Romney.
Allan Nairn Returns to East Timor on 25th Anniversary of Dili Massacre When U.S. Weapons Killed 270+
Saturday marks the 25th anniversary of the Santa Cruz massacre on November 12, 1991. Journalists Allan Nairn and Amy Goodman were there when Indonesian troops opened fire on a peaceful memorial procession at the Santa Cruz cemetery in Dili. The soldiers were armed with U.S. M16s and killed more than 270 East Timorese. We go to East Timor to speak with investigative journalist Allan Nairn, who has returned to the scene of the massacre, where young people re-enacted what occurred. "There was crying, but it was like a celebration of power," Nairn notes, because the Timorese response to the attack sparked an international movement that led the U.S. to cut off military aid, and East Timor eventually won its independence. "People here are not underestimating their power. Americans, we shouldn’t underestimate ours, either."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Saturday marks the 25th anniversary of the Santa Cruz massacre. It was November 12th, 1991, and journalists Allan Nairn and Amy Goodman were there when Indonesian troops opened fire on a peaceful memorial procession at the Santa Cruz cemetery in Dili.
AMY GOODMAN: The Indonesian military was armed with U.S. M16s. They killed more than 270 East Timorese on that day, November 12th, 1991. We’re going to go back to that day with the documentary Allan and I produced as we witnessed this massacre, called Massacre: The Story of East Timor.
JOSÉ RAMOS-HORTA: I lost one sister and two brothers.
EAST TIMORESE WOMAN: It was 10 days before I was to give birth. The army was shooting people, and they would die at our feet, but you couldn’t stop to help them.
JOSÉ RAMOS-HORTA: I know families that were totally wiped out.
EAST TIMORESE MAN: Two American newsmen badly beaten: Mr. Allan Nairn and Miss Amy Goodman.
AMY GOODMAN: The Indonesian army converged in two places.
ALLAN NAIRN: Hundreds and hundreds of troops coming straight at the Timorese.
AMY GOODMAN: When they came, they opened fire on the people.
PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W. BUSH: We pride ourselves, and I think properly so, in standing up for human rights.
RICHARD BOUCHER: Military assistance programs expose the trainees to democratic ideas and humanitarian standards.
PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: I’m very concerned about what’s happened in East Timor. We have ignored it so far in ways that I think are unconscionable.
AMY GOODMAN: Massacre: The Story of East Timor. I’m Amy Goodman.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. That was 25 years ago today, 271 people killed. We’re going right now to Dili. Allan Nairn is in Dili, East Timor, the capital. He just came from the cemetery where there was a re-enactment of the massacre.
Allan, we only have a few minutes. Can you tell us what people are saying 25 years later and what it’s like for you—you were wounded, your skull was fractured by the Indosian military—to return to the site?
ALLAN NAIRN: Well, it’s really something, because what they did tonight was—these were young people, many of whom were not born at the time of the massacre, or they were little kids. They played the part, the soldiers and the marchers, and they had studied their—their history. At the end of this pageant, it looked like it did on that day. That street, the actual street in front of the cemetery, was covered with bodies. But these bodies rose up. They started singing. People who were playing the soldiers came forward, they broke their guns. And the spirit was not solemn. It wasn’t mourning. There was crying, but it was like a celebration of power. People often make the mistake of underestimating their own power. That was not the atmosphere here. People were celebrating it, because what the Timorese actually did after the real Dili massacre was they sparked an international movement. In the U.S., we were able, through grassroots pressure, to get the Congress to cut off U.S. military aid to the Indonesian military one step at a time, and eventually ended the occupation of Timor. They won their independence.
It also brought down the dictator, Suharto, of Indonesia, because when the Indonesians themselves rose in rebellion against him in Jakarta in '98, he looked into the faces of those Indonesian protesters, and he imagined he saw the eyes of the Timorese. He was afraid, if he opened fire on the—on his own protesters, his remaining U.S. aid would be cut off. His security man told me later they specifically feared it would be another Santa Cruz, that they'd pay too heavy of a price, because the Timorese had already made them pay a price. So Suharto trembled, he hesitated, and he fell, because the people in Jakarta were emboldened. They kept coming out in the streets in waves, and they ended that dictatorship. And all this radiated from the actions of the East Timorese, who on that morning seemed like they were crushed. You know, I think the Indonesian generals, the poor generals, must have been thinking, "My god, what do we have to do to kill these people? They keep coming back and defeating us."
AMY GOODMAN: Allan, we have 10 seconds.
ALLAN NAIRN: You know, a lot of people have been asking about Trump. They’re giving their condolences. People here are not underestimating their power. Americans, we shouldn’t underestimate ours, either. This could have—what happened in the U.S. radiated from the collapse of the American middle class. U.S. could have swung radically left with Sanders. It ended up swinging radically right with Trump, because the Democratic establishment has completely discredited itself. The party is ripe for takeover. This isn’t over in the U.S. It shouldn’t be.
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Nationwide Protests Continue for 2nd Night After Trump Election
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Protests continued across the country for a second night, following the election of Donald Trump for president. In Portland, Oregon, where thousands of people gathered to denounce the president-elect, police in riot gear attacked protesters with pepper spray and rubber bullets, while some demonstrators sprayed graffiti and broke store windows. A handful of people were arrested. In Oakland, hundreds of anti-Trump protesters took over Interstate 580, while in Denver, thousands of people rallied at the state Capitol. Anti-Trump protesters also took to the streets in New York City; Madison and Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Columbus, Ohio; Minneapolis, Minnesota; Los Angeles, California; Baltimore, Maryland; and Washington, D.C. The protests even reached the Supreme Court bench, where on Wednesday Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wore an embellished collar ruffle that signals disagreement. This summer Ginsburg told The New York Times, "I can’t imagine what the country would be—with Donald Trump as our president," and said she’d move to New Zealand if he were elected. During protests in Washington, D.C., Thursday, a middle school teacher spoke about the confusion and fear of his students.
Middle School Teacher: "A lot of them are really confused about these election results. So, after I explain to them how Trump, quote-unquote, 'won,' they ask me the same question: 'Mr. E, will I get deported?' All of my periods ask me the same question. Are we going to deport them?"
Protesters: "No!"
Middle School Teacher: "Why not? Because love trumps hate. Let me hear you!"
Protesters: "Love trumps hate! Love trumps hate!"
The protests last night came after President-elect Donald Trump met with President Obama in the Oval Office Thursday. Following the meeting, Trump tweeted, "Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"
Paul Ryan Says He's Excited to Work with Donald Trump
Donald Trump also met with Republicans on Capitol Hill Thursday, including House Speaker Paul Ryan, who never unendorsed Trump, but did say he wouldn’t campaign for him, following the surfacing of a 2005 video in which Trump openly brags about sexually assaulting women. On Thursday, however, Ryan said he was now excited to work with Trump.
Speaker Paul Ryan: "We’re not going to do a press conference here. Let me just say how excited we are about these opportunities for the country. We had a fantastic, productive meeting about getting to work, rolling up our sleeves and going to work for the American people. Donald Trump had one of the most impressive victories we’ve ever seen, and we’re going to turn that victory into progress for the American people. And we are now talking about how we’re going to hit the ground running, to make sure that we can get this country turned around and make America great again."
Trump Bucks Tradition, Refusing to Let Press Travel with Him to D.C.
President-elect Donald Trump refused to allow journalists to travel with him on his trip to the White House Thursday, breaking with a long-standing tradition in which presidents and presidents-elect travel with a "pool" of reporters. Trump also bucked long-standing press traditions during his campaign, when he banned journalists from nearly two dozen media outlets from covering his events, including The Washington Post, Politico, BuzzFeed, The Huffington Post, The Daily Beast, The Des Moines Register, the Union Leader, Univision and Fusion. He also threatened to ban The New York Times from covering his campaign.
Anti-Immigrant Lawmaker Kris Kobach Joins Trump's Transition Team
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, known as a leading proponent of anti-immigrant and voter suppression laws, has joined Donald Trump’s transition team. Kobach was a key figure in drafting Arizona’s notorious anti-immigrant racial profiling law, SB 1070, known as the "show your papers" law, parts of which have been found unconstitutional. While working through the Immigration Reform Law Institute, Kobach also drafted model anti-immigration legislation that’s been implemented in Pennsylvania, California, Texas, Missouri and Alabama. Some of these laws were later found to be unconstitutional.
Hundreds of Reports of Racist Attacks in Wake of Trump Victory
Hundreds of people of color nationwide have reported being physically and verbally attacked, harassed, threatened and insulted in the wake of Donald Trump’s election Tuesday. At Southern Lehigh High School in Pennsylvania, students and the principal report white students calling their fellow black students "cotton pickers" and using the "heil Hitler" salute. At Royal Oak Middle School in Michigan, a video shows white students chanting "build a wall, build a wall." Another teacher posted on social media that a 10-year-old girl had to be picked up from school because a boy grabbed her vagina and then reportedly said that "if a president can do it, I can, too." Multiple women reported not wearing a hijab outside out of fear, while others reported hijabs being ripped from their heads while in public. In Woodland Hills, California, a 16-year-old girl told local media she was on her high school campus when a fellow student came up behind her and tried to rip her headscarf off her and then told her, "You shouldn’t be wearing that, you towelhead. You’re not American. This isn’t America." On a college campus outside of Buffalo, New York, a black baby doll was found in an elevator with a rope around its neck, while in Wellsville, New York, a swastika and the words "MAKEAMERICA WHITE AGAIN" were spray-painted on a baseball dugout. Several LGBTQ suicide hotlines are reporting that the number of calls has risen significantly since Tuesday, and that hotlines are seeking additional volunteers.
Trump Will Take Stand Nov. 28 in Trial over Trump University
Donald Trump will be heading to trial on November 28 in San Diego in a class-action lawsuit against him and his defunct for-profit Trump University, which has been accused of defrauding students. Trump’s lawyer says the president-elect is slated to testify. While on the campaign trail, Trump verbally attacked the judge on the case, U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, calling him a "hater" and accusing him being biased against Trump because the Indiana-born judge is of Mexican descent. Trump has also called on Curiel to recuse himself from the case, claiming his heritage represents a conflict of interest. Trump’s comments were widely condemned as being racist, including by leading Republicans.
Fmr. Illinois Rep. Aaron Schock Indicted by Federal Jury
Former Republican Illinois Congressmember Aaron Schock has been indicted by a federal grand jury on 24 counts, including wire fraud and theft of government funds. Schock resigned from the House in March 2015 following a Washington Post investigation into his expensive Capitol Hill office, which has been described as "Downton Abbey"-themed. He’s been accused of using tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars on his office’s renovations, as well as private jets and concerts.
Turkey: CEO of Award-Winning Newspaper Cumhuriyet Detained
In Turkey, authorities have detained the CEO of the prominent newspaper Cumhuriyet, which won the 2016 Right Livelihood Award, often referred to as the alternative Nobel Prize. This comes after Turkish authorities raided Cumhuriyet’s Istanbul office less than two weeks ago, detaining at least 12 journalists and administrators on terrorism charges.
Afghanistan: 6 Killed After Attack at German Consulate
In Afghanistan, at least six people have died and more than 100 are wounded after a suicide truck bomb exploded at the German Consulate in Mazar-e-Sharif. The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was in retaliation for the U.S. airstrikes near Kunduz last week, which killed 30 civilians, the majority of whom were women and children.
India: 13 People Die in Fire at Garment Factory
In India, 13 people have died after a fire broke out in a garment factory in the north of India today. At least two people were burned to death, while the others asphyxiated after the fire spread to the top floors of the factory, where the workers were sleeping.
Legendary Singer and Songwriter Leonard Cohen Dies at 82
And Leonard Cohen has died at the age of 82 at his home in Los Angeles. The wildly influential singer and songwriter was a force in the music world for more than 50 years. Famous for the songs "Hallelujah," "Suzanne," "Dance Me to the End of Love", “Famous Blue Raincoat” and "Tower of Song," Cohen was born September 21, 1934, and lived throughout his life in New York City, London, on the Greek island of Hydra and in a monastery east of Los Angeles.
Leonard Cohen: "Now I’ve heard there was a secret chord, that David played, and it pleased the Lord. But you don’t really care for music, do you? It goes like this: The fourth, the fifth. The minor fall, the major lift. The baffled king composing Hallelujah. Hallelujah…Hallelujah…"
The Canadian-born singer-songwriter Leonard Cohen released his final album, "You Want It Darker," less than a month ago.
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COLUMN
Trumped: When the Loser Wins By Amy Goodman & Denis Moynihan
From Barack Obama, the first African-American president, the pendulum has ominously swung to the Ku Klux Klan’s choice, Donald Trump. Just elected the 45th president of the United States, Trump opened his campaign calling Mexicans “rapists,” and promised to build a wall along the border with Mexico (and to make Mexico pay for it). He vowed to ban Muslims from entering the country, insulted people with disabilities, bragged about committing sexual assault, denied climate change and said he would jail his opponent, Hillary Clinton. It is important to note that Clinton won the popular vote, but Donald Trump prevailed in the Electoral College. Ironically, on election night 2012, Trump tweeted, “The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.” Trump will assume the most powerful position in the world, the presidency of the United States, with the House of Representatives and the Senate remaining in Republican control. His power could be almost entirely unchecked.
While people around the world express shock and financial markets plummeted as the election results came in, here in the United States, the Beltway prognosticators offer “mea culpas,” and pollsters attempt to explain the failure of their scientific methods. This political upset is truly without precedent in U.S. history. In the aftermath of this bitterly fought, often crude, vastly expensive and punishingly long election, two questions dominate: How did this happen, and where do we go from here?
First, Trump’s campaign was overtly racist, and this seems to have motivated a terrifying number of voters. An increase in white voters was matched by aggressive efforts to depress voting by people of color. This was the first national election in more than 50 years conducted without the full protections of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Systematic efforts to restrict voting in communities of color flourished in the South, including in the two key battleground states of Florida and North Carolina.
The media played a critical role in creating President-elect Donald Trump. The Tyndall Report, which tracks how much airtime different issues and candidates receive on the major news networks, summarized media coverage of the candidates in 2015. Donald Trump received 327 minutes, or close to one-third of all the campaign coverage, at a time when he had 16 Republican challengers. “ABC World News Tonight” aired 81 minutes of reports on Donald Trump, compared with just 20 seconds for Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, according to Tyndall. On March 15, 2016, after the primary day dubbed “Super Tuesday 3,” the networks played all the candidates’ speeches, except for the speech by Sanders. The networks actually spent more time showing Trump’s empty podium, filling the time until he spoke, than playing any words of Sanders’, who addressed the largest crowd that night.
Earlier this year, CBS CEO Les Moonves told a Morgan Stanley-hosted media-industry conference, speaking about the volume of political advertising that the “circus” of Trump’s campaign was attracting: “It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS. ... The money’s rolling in.” As world-renowned linguist and political dissident Noam Chomsky says, “The media manufacture consent.”
Another element contributing to Trump’s unexpected win: the FBI. On Friday, Oct. 28, FBI Director James Comey sent a letter to congressional Republicans suggesting more emails had been discovered “that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” of Hillary Clinton’s private email server. This was 11 days before the election. Nine days later, he stated publicly that the emails offered nothing new. Early voting was happening during those nine days, with Hillary Clinton under the cloud of potential renewed FBI investigation. According to Business Insider, 24 million votes were cast during this period. We may never know how many votes Clinton might have lost as a result of that FBI intervention. “It would be entirely fair to say that the FBI swung the election to Trump,” journalist Allan Nairn said on the “Democracy Now!” news hour. “I don’t think anyone has ever claimed that J. Edgar Hoover swung a presidential election,” he added.
Within hours of Trump’s victory speech, protests were being planned across the country. In Morocco, where the United Nations climate summit convened just the day before the U.S. election, climate negotiators, environmental activists and stakeholders from around the globe organized ad hoc meetings, fearing that Trump could scuttle the entire Paris accord on climate change.
Donald Trump closed his victory speech by saying, “I can only say that while the campaign is over, our work ... is now really just beginning.” For the millions of people around the globe committed to opposing Trump’s dangerous and divisive agenda, their work, too, has just begun.
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