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"This Flag Comes Down Today": Bree Newsome Scales SC Capitol Flagpole, Removing Confederate Flag
On Saturday, Bree Newsome, a 30-year-old African-American woman, was arrested at the state Capitol after scaling the 30-foot flagpole and unhooking the Confederate flag. As police officers shouted at her to come down, Bree Newsome shimmied to the top, took the flag in her hand and said, "You come against me with hatred and oppression and violence. I come against you in the name of God. This flag comes down today!" Newsome recited Psalm 27 and the Lord’s Prayer as she brought the flag down. As soon as she reached the ground, she was arrested, along with James Tyson, who had stood at the bottom of the pole to spot her as she climbed. The action went viral and was seen around the world. Democracy Now! was at the jail where Newsome was taken, where we spoke with her supporters. The flag was replaced about an hour after Newsome took it down. We also spoke with supporters of the flag, who rallied at the Capitol Saturday, and with the counter-protesters who confronted them.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: That is Bree Newsome singing "#StayStrong: A Love Song to Freedom Fighters," and it’s Bree Newsome we’re talking about today. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. Democracy Now! has just returned from South Carolina, where the massacre of nine African-American churchgoers by a white suspect who embraced the Confederate flag has renewed protests to remove the Confederate battle flag from outside the state Capitol on its grounds. Last Tuesday, South Carolina state lawmakers agreed to debate removing the flag later this summer. But early Saturday morning, a 30-year-old African-American woman named Bree Newsome, with a helmet and climbing gear, scaled the 30-foot flagpole and unhooked the Confederate flag. As police officers shouted at her to come down, Bree Newsome shimmied to the top of that flagpole, took the flag in her hand and said, quote, "You come against me with hatred ... I come against you in the name of God. This flag comes down today!"
BREE NEWSOME: You come against me with hatred and oppression and violence. I come against you in the name of God. This flag comes down today!
AMY GOODMAN: Bree Newsome recited Psalm 27 and the Lord’s Prayer as she brought the flag down. As soon as she reached the ground, she was arrested, along with James Tyson, who had stood at the bottom of the pole to spot her as she climbed. News station WIS spoke to Bree Newsome as she was led away in handcuffs. She told them, quote, "Every day that flag stays up there is an endorsement of hate."
WIS REPORTER: And why did you do that?
BREE NEWSOME: Because it was the right thing to do, and it’s time for somebody to step up, do the right thing. We have to bury hate. It’s been too long. It’s killing us, literally. We can’t do this. We can’t be warring with each other all the time. It’s not right.
WIS REPORTER: Why not wait until lawmakers vote to take it down?
BREE NEWSOME: What is there to vote on? There’s doing the right thing, and there’s doing the wrong thing. It’s time for people to have the courage. Everybody who knows what the right thing is to do, we have to step up in love and nonviolence. We have to do the right thing, or else it won’t stop. Every day that flag hangs up there is an endorsement of hate. I prayed on it. And I was very afraid, but then I wasn’t afraid anymore, because, you know, the lord calls us all to do different things. This is what he called me to do. This is what I do.
WIS REPORTER: Ma’am, what is your name?
BREE NEWSOME: Bree Newsome.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Bree Newsome speaking to WIS, the local station in Columbia. She was being escorted away by a black law enforcement officer. Bree Newsome’s action went viral and was seen around the world. Her bail fund has raised over $110,000. Oscar-nominated filmmaker Ava DuVernay was among the many to hail her, writing on Twitter, quote, "I hope I get the call to direct the motion picture about a black superhero I admire. Her name is @BreeNewsome."
But within about an hour, a maintenance worker and state security officer had raised a new Confederate battle flag on the Capitol grounds.
Bree Newsome’s protest capped a week which saw at least six predominantly black churches across the South destroyed or damaged by fire, at least three of them arsons. It came one day after President Obama delivered the eulogy at the funeral for South Carolina State Senator and Reverend Clementa Pinckney at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina. He was speaking at the College of Charleston, the arena that held thousands. Democracy Now! was there as the president called for the flag to come down.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Removing the flag from this state’s Capitol would not be an act of political correctness. It would not be an insult to the valor of Confederate soldiers. It would simply be an acknowledgment that the cause for which they fought—the cause of slavery—was wrong. The imposition of Jim Crow after the Civil War, the resistance to civil rights for all people, was wrong. It would be one step in an honest accounting of America’s history, a modest but meaningful balm for so many unhealed wounds. It would be an expression of the amazing changes that have transformed this state and this country for the better, because of the work of so many people of goodwill, people of all races striving to form a more perfect union. By taking down that flag, we express God’s grace.
AMY GOODMAN: That was President Obama speaking Friday before thousands of people at the College of Charleston for the funeral for Reverend and State Senator Clementa Pinckney. That was one day before Bree Newsome took the Confederate battle flag down on the Capitol grounds in nearby Columbia, the state capital. At 11:00 a.m. on Saturday, the funeral service began for Cynthia Hurd, a 54-year-old librarian killed in the Charleston massacre on June 17th by the accused white shooter Dylann Roof.
Meanwhile, in the capital, Columbia, about two hours away, Confederate flag supporters held a rally in front of the newly replaced flag. Antiracist counter-protesters also attended, standing shoulder to shoulder with the flag supporters, asking passing drivers to "honk the flag down." Democracy Now! was there. I spoke with the protesters on both sides.
WILLIAM WELLS: Heritage, not hate! Heritage, not racism! Heritage, not racism!
My name is William Wells. And I’m flying this flag for the people who died, all of the people who died, anybody who died for this flag, period. Period. It ain’t got nothing to do with black, white, love, hate, nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: Are you opposed to slavery?
WILLIAM WELLS: Hell yeah, I’m opposed to slavery. That wasn’t cool either.
AMY GOODMAN: So what does this flag means you?
WILLIAM WELLS: This means the 13 original colonies wanted to stay out of the United States government.
AMY GOODMAN: Can I ask what your thoughts are, listening to him and this rally? What is your name?
BRAILEY JOHNSON: My name’s Brailey.
AMY GOODMAN: And tell me the sign you’re saying—you’re holding?
BRAILEY JOHNSON: It’s to represent the nine people who lost their lives in Charleston.
AMY GOODMAN: And what else does it say?
BRAILEY JOHNSON: It says, "Honk the flag down."
AMY GOODMAN: What are your thoughts about the Confederate flag?
BRAILEY JOHNSON: It doesn’t represent me, my people, my people.
WILLIAM WELLS: Whoa, whoa, whoa. "My people," you’re saying?
BRAILEY JOHNSON: My people as in African Americans. I’m an African-American woman.
WILLIAM WELLS: You’re a black American.
BRAILEY JOHNSON: I’m an African American.
WILLIAM WELLS: I’m a white American. I’m married to a brown American.
BRAILEY JOHNSON: Excuse me, I was speaking.
WILLIAM WELLS: I’m sorry. You’re right.
BRAILEY JOHNSON: Thank you. So, as an African-American woman, this flag—I go to USC. And every time I have to walk past this flag, it hurts. It’s not—it doesn’t make me feel good about being a South Carolinian. I’ve never been proud to be a South Carolinian until this past week, because I see how great people are in Charleston. They’re really trying to fight for love. And I just want—I don’t want my children to have to grow up in South Carolina and see that flag that represents so much turmoil for African Americans. And I understand people want to say it’s not a race thing, but to me it is.
WILLIAM WELLS: Flag for the Americans who died! Flag for the Americans who died!
MONIFA LEMONS: [inaudible] just stand still and not say anything, their hate has not come out. And I say "they," because I mean hatred [inaudible]...
My name is Monifa Lemons. What that flag means to me is—we’re standing on a street now that if you cross over that bridge—right?—you know not to be there at night. If I cross over that bridge and I drive into a yard with a Confederate flag, I know not to ask them for help if I have a flat tire. I just know that. I’m not saying it’s true. I’m saying that I know that. All right? I’m saying that I know that for a fact. So, what we have to do is stop acting like we don’t know that when somebody has a Confederate flag in their yard, don’t stop there.
PROTESTER 1: Yo, take it down! Take it down! That’s right! Let’s go! Let’s go!
JALALUDIN ABDUL-HAMID: Take the flag down.
PROTESTER 2: Take it down.
PROTESTER 3: Take it down.
PROTESTER 2: Take it down.
JALALUDIN ABDUL-HAMID: This is just the first stepping stone.
AMY GOODMAN: And what does your sign say, sir?
JALALUDIN ABDUL-HAMID: Oh, my sign, I’m going to let you—I’m going to let it show for itself.
AMY GOODMAN: But for people who are listening on the radio.
JALALUDIN ABDUL-HAMID: Well, "I can’t believe I still have to protest this crap!" Oh, my god. Oh, my god. Really, how many years are we still protesting it? How many marches? How many lives? How many lives? That’s the main part. How many more lives that we have to mourn over?
AMY GOODMAN: What’s your name?
JALALUDIN ABDUL-HAMID: My name is Jalaludin.
HAZE BERGERON: I’m Haze Bergeron. Did you hear Lindsey Graham the other day on the floor of the Senate say that like what happened in Charleston was some Mideast-style hate? Like where has he been living this whole time? He’s from South Carolina. That’s some South Carolina-style hate, if you ask me. That’s some white-ass South Carolina racial hate. That’s all that is.
AMY GOODMAN: And what is your name?
STEWART: Stewart.
AMY GOODMAN: And why are you here today?
STEWART: I’m here because a friend called me and said they were going to have a rally and—that guy with the big flag over there, that’s who called me.
AMY GOODMAN: What’s the flag?
STEWART: Oh, the Confederate flag.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you think Dylann Roof did the wrong thing?
STEWART: What he did was give a black eye to the Confederate flag by allowing the media and irrational people to say, "Well, that monument has got to come down because some nut killed somebody," which has nothing to do with that monument. The monument was not built over racism and over hatred. The monument was built because people died fighting for this state, just like the Vietnam War Memorial and World War II.
AMY GOODMAN: Thank you.
STEWART: They love the people that died for this state.
AMY GOODMAN: Thank you.
STEWART: Do you?
AMY GOODMAN: Thank you, Stewart.
STEWART: Thank you. What is your name?
AMY GOODMAN: My name is Amy, and I’m from New York.
STEWART: Amy what? What is your last name?
AMY GOODMAN: Goodman.
STEWART: Goodman.
AMY GOODMAN: Yeah.
AMY LITTLEFIELD: Now you have to tell us your last name, sir.
STEWART: Are you Jewish? Somebody told me that was a Jewish name.
PROTESTER 4: Take it down!
PROTESTER 5: Take it down!
PROTESTER 6: Take it down!
PROTESTER 5: What’s the problem? What’s the holdup?
PROTESTER 6: Flag gotta go. Take it down.
TOM CLEMENTS: My name is Tom Clements, and I live in Columbia, born in Savannah, Georgia.
AMY GOODMAN: Who’s your great-great-grandfather?
TOM CLEMENTS: Well, this was—I did this in 2008 when I came down on Confederate Memorial Day, but I had a great-great-grandfather that was captured at the Battle of Spotsylvania, at the Bloody Angle—and I’ve been there—which was just an awful, awful, horrific massacre, basically. I have another—my—
AMY GOODMAN: Wait, and he was a Confederate soldier?
TOM CLEMENTS: He was Confederate from Georgia. He was in this division, and they had this flag, which was certainly—
AMY GOODMAN: The 31st Georgia Volunteer Infantry.
TOM CLEMENTS: Yes, from central Georgia. He had five brothers. So there were six of them. Three of them were killed in the Civil War.
AMY GOODMAN: So you’re here with the folks that are waving the Confederate flag?
TOM CLEMENTS: Oh, no, absolutely not. No, I’m totally against what they stand for. And I find that they don’t really know the history. They haven’t even read the December 1860 reasons for secession, which were all about slavery. But I, my whole life pretty much, have had the same viewpoint, that the flag should be taken down. I like to pitch it that we’ve been fighting the Civil War down here since the war was over. I mean, 150 years. We just commemorated it here in South Carolina. It’s time to get beyond it.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, down the road from the Capitol grounds at 2:00 p.m. on Saturday at the Alvin S. Glenn Detention Center in Columbia, a bond hearing was held for Bree Newsome and James Tyson. They were charged with defacing state property, which can carry three years in prison and a $5,000 fine. About a dozen supporters waited in the lobby of the jail for their release, including fellow activists from North Carolina, where Bree Newsome lives. I spoke with some of her supporters.
AMY GOODMAN: What were your feelings as you watched the Confederate flag being taken down on the property of the state Capitol?
TAMIKA LEWIS: As you can see my glee, it was one of the most liberating and beautiful moments that I have known in all my 25 years of life, besides my daughter being born. To see that flag actually come down and all of the things that it represents being taken down by a strong black woman was one of the greatest symbols—symbolic images that one person could ever witness, I feel, yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: That was very interesting. During this whole past week after the massacre of the nine Emanuel parishioners and their pastor, you had the American flag above the state Capitol, the South Carolina flag above the state Capitol, both at half-mast.
TAMIKA LEWIS: Mm-hmm.
AMY GOODMAN: And right next to them you had—
TAMIKA LEWIS: Flying strong and strong. And I think what it symbolizes hurts—
AMY GOODMAN: The Confederate battle flag—
TAMIKA LEWIS: Yeah, yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: —flying at half-mast—at full mast.
TAMIKA LEWIS: At full mast, right? Flying free, while the people who were murdered are laying under the casket, right? While you’re viewing people’s caskets and viewing the people while they’re laid to rest, you can look up, and although there was a black curtain, you still know what was on the other side of that curtain.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, you had to walk past the Confederate flag, right?
TAMIKA LEWIS: Flag, to even get there. So some people I know personally—my friend waited two hours under the Confederate flag, right? And we see the pictures of the murderer, and he’s holding these Confederate flags with so much glee and joy and pride. And it’s just like, why would we allow this to continue to stand? Why would our legislators, our councilmen, our mayor, the president? He was here. He could have taken it down himself if he really felt compelled to. Just saying.
AMY GOODMAN: You mean by executive order?
TAMIKA LEWIS: By executive order, yes.
CORINE MACK: My name is Corine Mack. I’m the president of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg NAACP. I was notified this morning that one of my chairpeople was arrested, so I came down to ensure that she was OK and to give her some support. Bree Newsome is the chair of our social media and the co-chair of our young adults.
AMY GOODMAN: What does the Confederate flag mean to you?
CORINE MACK: Hate and segregation. It doesn’t mean anything American at all. And in fact, when you lose a war anywhere else in the country, that flag is not allowed to be flown anywhere. So why should we allow it here in the United States?
AMY GOODMAN: Why don’t you tell us your name?
KARIL TINAE PARKER: Hi. I’m Karil Parker.
AMY GOODMAN: And you came out here on your own to the detention center?
KARIL TINAE PARKER: I did. I came out here to show my support for Bree, that this is just—this is not her battle alone, that we stand with her. She did what many people have not had the courage to do, and that we are proud of her, that we support her. Whatever she needs, we are here for her. And I wanted her to know that, and that’s why I came. But it doesn’t matter how you feel about whether she should or should not have done it. She did it. It’s done. And it needs to come down. And she has done what our governor hasn’t had the courage to do, what our General Assembly hasn’t had the courage to do. She went up there and did what had to be done, when it needed to be done.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s over 100 degrees here. I’m looking at your T-shirt. Can you tell us what it says?
KARIL TINAE PARKER: What it says, it says, "Dream like Martin." It says, "Lead like Harriet." It says, "Fight like Malcolm. Think like Garvey. Write like Maya. Build like Madam C.J. Speak like Frederick. Educate like W. E. B. Believe like Thurgood," who was here—from here, might I add? "Challenge like Rosa."
AMY GOODMAN: Are you going to be adding another name to that list?
KARIL TINAE PARKER: Yeah, yeah. We’re going to "snatch down like Bree."
AMY GOODMAN: So, Carol, you’re from Columbia.
KARIL TINAE PARKER: This is my home, born and raised.
AMY GOODMAN: And so you’ve seen this flag for a very long time.
KARIL TINAE PARKER: I’ve seen this flag, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: This—well, the particular flagpole.
KARIL TINAE PARKER: Mm-hmm, I have. And that flag doesn’t mean any more today than it meant two weeks ago. That flag has always meant hate. And now Dylann Roof has just brought that hate to the light. It’s not a secret. That flag has always meant hate. It meant hate when I was in high school. I have no problem with you wearing your flag if you want to wear it on your T-shirt. I have a problem with it standing in front of what is supposed to be our state House, our state House grounds. That’s a problem, because it may mean heritage to you, but if it means hate to me, it doesn’t diminish what it means to me. It still means oppression. It still means hate. It still means slavery. And that just—that’s not going to change.
AMY GOODMAN: Tamika, was there a discussion about whether to wait for the South Carolina Legislature to take their time in a debate?
TAMIKA LEWIS: So we’ve noticed that they have been pushing it off for a very long time, since everything started to happen. And we just didn’t have time for it, basically. I think that’s how we summarize and use that, right? They still—it’s ambiguous, right? They’re going to wait. They’re going to take it to House, and then they’re going to stop, and then they’re going to come back to it. And it might have not been until the end of July or August, and then we don’t even know what they’re going to rule. So, the country will be waiting around to figure out what it is, and they might not even favor in the removal of the flag.
AMY GOODMAN: Tamika Lewis, Karil Parker and Corine Mack, speaking outside the jail in Columbia, South Carolina. Bree Newsome and Jimmy Tyson were both released from jail on Saturday afternoon after supporters posted the requisite $300 of their $3,000 bond each. Their next court appearance is July 27th in Columbia, South Carolina.
A very special thanks to my colleagues working with me in South Carolina: John Hamilton and Amy Littlefield.
Love Wins: After Decades of Struggle, Marriage Equality Now the Law of the Land
Same-sex weddings took place across the country this weekend after the Supreme Court ruled that all 50 states must now permit LGBTQ couples "the fundamental right to marry." The historic decision puts an end to marriage equality bans that remained in 14 states, impacting tens of thousands of couples. Writing for the majority, Justice Anthony Kennedy said, "Changed understandings of marriage are characteristic of a Nation where new dimensions of freedom become apparent to new generations." He added, "It demeans gays and lesbians for the State to lock them out of a central institution of the Nation’s society." Advocates note there is more work to be done in the fight for LGBT rights, a point highlighted at many of this weekend’s Pride celebrations. We are joined by two of the plaintiffs in the Supreme Court’s same-sex marriage case, April DeBoer and Jayne Rowse, who went to court in Michigan to win the right to jointly adopt each other’s children, and Marc Solomon, the national campaign director of Freedom to Marry.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Same-sex weddings took place across the country this weekend after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday all 50 states must now permit same-sex couples the, quote, "fundamental right to marry." The ruling puts an end to same-sex marriage bans that remained in 14 states—Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, most of Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas. The court’s decision could impact some 70,000 couples living in these states, out of an estimated one million same-sex couples nationwide.
Writing for the majority, Justice Anthony Kennedy said, quote, "Changed understandings of marriage are characteristic of a Nation where new dimensions of freedom become apparent to new generations." He added, it, quote, "demeans gays and lesbians for the State to lock them out of a central institution of the Nation’s society."
Well, on Friday, President Obama hailed the landmark ruling but pointed out that not everyone was in agreement.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I know that Americans of good will continue to hold a wide range of views on this issue. Opposition, in some cases, has been based on sincere and deeply held beliefs. All of us who welcome today’s news should be mindful of that fact, recognize different viewpoints, revere our deep commitment to religious freedom. But today should also give us hope that on the many issues with which we grapple, often painfully, real change is possible.
AMY GOODMAN: Supreme Court rulings generally take 25 days to go into effect. In Louisiana and Mississippi, they say they’ll continue to refuse marriage licenses for same-sex couples as they await legal formalities. Meanwhile, the Texas attorney general, Ken Paxton, said Sunday, county clerks and judges can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples based on religious objections, and said the state would assist them in defending their beliefs.
All of this comes as advocates note there is more work to be done in the fight for LGBT rights, a point highlighted at many of this weekend’s Pride celebrations. Protesters at Chicago’s Pride Parade on Sunday staged a die-in to draw attention to ongoing issues like housing and job discrimination and violent attacks on transgender people.
We’ll talk more about all of this in our next segment, but first we go first to Detroit, Michigan, where we’re joined by two of the plaintiffs in the Supreme Court’s same-sex marriage case. April DeBoer and Jayne Rowse initially went to court in Michigan to win the right to jointly adopt each other’s children. They then challenged the state’s ban on same-sex marriage since joint adoption in Michigan is tied to marriage. And here in New York, we’re joined by Marc Solomon, national campaign director of Freedom to Marry, also author of Winning Marriage: The Inside Story of How Same-Sex Couples Took on the Politicians and Pundits—and Won. This is Democracy Now!, as we go to Detroit to get reaction to this historic decision on same-sex marriage.
April and Jayne, your response to the court’s decision?
APRIL DEBOER: You know, I mean, obviously we are happy that our family will finally be a legal, recognized family, once Jayne and I put our wedding together and get married and second-parent adopt our children.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Jayne, when he heard the Supreme Court decision announced on Friday morning, just after 10:00 Eastern Standard Time, how did you feel?
JAYNE ROWSE: You know, I felt that the court had done the right thing, that they recognized that we were not second-class citizens anymore and that our children deserve protections like everyone else and that they weren’t treated like second-class citizens anymore.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, Michigan is one of 14 states that had a ban on same-sex marriage. That gets lifted. In Texas, the attorney general says the court clerks and others don’t have to participate in, be a part of, any kind of same-sex marriage ceremony. Marc Solomon, can you respond to this latest showdown?
MARC SOLOMON: Yeah, it’s pretty unconscionable. I think that, you know, the decision was very clear. It was a powerful decision by the Supreme Court. And the clerks in Texas will need to provide marriage licenses to same-sex couples who come in to seek to marry, and every county is going to need to provide those licenses.
AMY GOODMAN: And what about other states? What are they saying?
MARC SOLOMON: I think things are going to go very smoothly. We had—Bobby Jindal yesterday said that Louisiana is going to perform marriages. There’s really—you know, the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of this question. And some politicians, who haven’t caught up with where the public is, will make a fuss, but I’m confident that in the next couple days everything will have been taken care of and gays, gay couples, same-sex couples, will be able to marry nationwide.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Attorney General Ken Paxton of Texas saying that county clerks can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples based on religious objections to gay marriage. In a formal opinion, he stated, "Friday, the [United States] Supreme Court again ignored the text and spirit of the Constitution to manufacture a right that simply does not exist. In so doing, the court weakened itself and weakened the rule of law, but did nothing to weaken our resolve to protect religious liberty and return to democratic self-government in the face of judicial activists attempting to tell us how to live," unquote. He went on to add, quote, "Judges and justices of the peace have no mandatory duty to conduct any wedding ceremony."
MARC SOLOMON: Yeah, I really disagree, and I think that the courts will disagree with that perspective. If you’re a public employee, you know, and you are mandated by the government to provide marriage licenses, you can’t pick and choose who you want to provide a marriage license to. So, you know, I think that will—that effort will fail in Texas.
AMY GOODMAN: So, April DeBoer, can you explain the linkage between adoption and marriage? What first motivated you to get involved with this case?
APRIL DEBOER: Well, here in Michigan, we are not allowed—we are not allowed to second-parent adopt each other’s children, so the law here states that only married couples and single people can adopt, so only married couples can adopt. And obviously, we could not get married here in the state of Michigan. So, we were actually seeking to overturn just the second-parent adoption law, initially, and then were guided into fighting for the marriage ban, as well.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Jayne, you announced plans to adopt another child, is that right, after the announcement came down on Friday?
JAYNE ROWSE: Yes, we do have a fifth adoption in the works. Not coincidentally, her name will be Kennedy. And hopefully by the end of the summer, she’ll be adopted.
AMY GOODMAN: And when do you plan to get married?
JAYNE ROWSE: Well, that’s the million-dollar question I believe everybody wants to know. We’re working on it. We’re getting some plans together. So, hopefully by the end of summer, we’ll have everything worked out.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, who will be the judge in—who will officiate over your marriage?
JAYNE ROWSE: Judge Bernard Friedman, who was our trial judge and the judge that recommended we change our second-parent adoption case to a marriage case. We asked him Friday.
AMY GOODMAN: Marc Solomon, your reaction to Judge Roberts’ dissenting opinion?
MARC SOLOMON: I thought it was really unfortunate and sort of mean. I think he was essentially saying that, you know, gay and lesbian folks, same-sex couples, you know, continue to go at it in legislatures, on ballot initiatives. But, you know, our Constitution guarantees that fundamental liberties are fundamental liberties.
AMY GOODMAN: He said, quote, "The Court invalidates the marriage laws of more than half the States and orders the transformation of a social institution that has formed the basis of human society for millennia, for the Kalahari Bushmen and the Han Chinese, the Carthaginians and the Aztecs. Just who do we think we are?"
MARC SOLOMON: Yeah, I saw Judge Posner, who is also a Reagan appointee, who wrote a response to that and was talking about how the Aztecs actually sliced the hearts out of the people that they conquered, and said that’s not the image that we’re looking to replicate. Look, the Constitution guarantees fundamental liberties and guarantees equal protection under the law, and that’s exactly what Justice Kennedy and the majority did.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the significance of the 14th Amendment in this ruling and explain what it is?
MARC SOLOMON: Sure. The 14th Amendment is an extraordinarily powerful amendment. It essentially takes the promise in the Declaration of Independence of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the notion that all people are created equal, and puts it in the—you know, puts it in the Constitution. So it says that fundamental liberties, like the right to marry, can’t be denied. And Kennedy says that, you know, for same-sex couples, that’s the only—you know, the only person they’re going to marry is someone of the same gender, and they shouldn’t be denied. So that’s sort of number one. And then, number two, it guarantees equal protection under the law. And, you know, what could be more unequal than saying that straight couples can marry and gay couples can’t? So, it is a powerful guarantee of the promise of the Declaration of Independence to all Americans.
AMY GOODMAN: Jayne Rowse, how did your kids respond?
JAYNE ROWSE: Well, they’re still not quite understanding everything that’s going on. Their concept is that the whole family is getting married, so they’re looking forward to the day. Our daughter wants to wear princess outfits. Our sons—our oldest son wants to wear a tuxedo. I’m not sure if our youngest son has an opinion on that or not. But their concept is that we’re all getting married.
AMY GOODMAN: And your neighbors, your community?
APRIL DEBOER: You know, they have been amazingly supportive through this whole thing. We’ve gotten congratulations and lots of hugs. And, you know, like I said, they’ve just been supportive.
AMY GOODMAN: Did you ever think this day would come?
JAYNE ROWSE: I never thought in my lifetime. I’ve been out since I was 16, and it was always a dream in the LGBTQ community, but I don’t think any of us ever thought it would happen in our lifetime. Hopefully in our kids’ lifetimes, but not in ours.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, congratulations to you both, April DeBoer and Jayne Rowse, two of the plaintiffs in the Supreme Court same-sex marriage case. Thanks for joining us from Detroit, Michigan. And, Marc Solomon, national campaign director of Freedom to Marry, author of Winning Marriage: The Inside Story of How Same-Sex Couples Took on the Politicians and Pundits—and Won, I’d like you to stay for our next segment as we talk about where the struggle goes from here. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: That’s right. That’s "Amazing Grace," sung by President Obama Friday at the funeral of the Honorable Reverend Clementa Pinckney in Charleston, South Carolina, one of the nine victims of the massacre that took place on June 17th. Later in the broadcast, we’ll bring you more of that funeral and also the words of the woman who shimmied up the flagpole on the state Capitol grounds in Columbia and pulled down the Confederate battle flag on Saturday. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
With Marriage Equality Won, LGBTQ Activism Continues for Bias Protections & Overlooked Trans Issues
After the Supreme Court’s historic ruling on marriage equality, many LGBTQ leaders are now redirecting their attention to obtaining federal, state and local legal protections in areas of employment, housing and commerce. Nationwide, anti-discrimination laws for gay people are inconsistent and unequal with only 22 states barring discrimination based on sexual orientation. The Human Rights Campaign is now advocating for a broad federal shield that would protect people of all sexual orientations and gender identities under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Meanwhile, grassroots LGBTQ activists are calling for large, national organizations to also focus their attention and resources on other pressing issues, including lesbian and gay refugees and asylum seekers, the plight of homeless youth ostracized by their families, and the disproportionately high levels of violence experienced by transgender people. We are joined by Jennicet Gutiérrez, an undocumented trans activist from Mexico who recently made national headlines when she interrupted President Obama to say "No more deportations!" at a White House event. Gutiérrez is a founding member of Familia: TQLM, established to advocate for LGBTQ immigrants often excluded in the immigration debate. We are also joined by Marc Solomon, national campaign director of Freedom to Marry and author of "Winning Marriage: The Inside Story of How Same-Sex Couples Took on the Politicians and Pundits—and Won."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As the Supreme Court delivered an historic ruling on marriage equality Friday, we turn to the future of the LGBTQ movement. Many gay rights leaders are now redirecting their attention to obtaining federal, state and local legal protections in areas of employment, housing and commerce. Nationwide, anti-discrimination laws for gay people are inconsistent and unequal with only 22 states barring discrimination based on sexual orientation. The Human Rights Campaign is now advocating for a broad federal shield that would protect people of all sexual orientations and gender identities under the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Meanwhile, grassroots LGBTQ activists are calling for large, national organizations to also focus their attention and resources on other pressing issues, including lesbian and gay refugees and asylum seekers, the plight of homeless youth ostracized by their families, and the disproportionately high levels of violence experienced by transgender people. During the first two months of this year, transgender women of color were murdered at a rate of almost one per week in the United States. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, transgender women of color are among the groups most victimized by hate violence in the country.
For more, we go to Los Angeles, California, where we’re joined by Jennicet Gutiérrez, an undocumented trans activist from Mexico. Last week, she made national headlines when she interrupted President Obama at the White House to say, "No more deportation!" Gutiérrez was a founding member of Familia: TQLM, established to advocate for LGBTQ immigrants often excluded in the immigration debate. And we’re here in New York with Marc Solomon still, national campaign director of Freedom to Marry.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Jennicet, your reaction to the Supreme Court’s ruling on Friday?
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: Good morning, and thank you for having me again. I do believe the U.S. Supreme Court made the right decision, and this is a huge victory for the LGBT community and for justice in this country. However, you know, many people in the LGBTQ, especially people of color, marriage is not a priority. So we’re facing many challenges.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about those challenges and what you think needs to be the focus of LGBTQ activism today?
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: Yes. Well, personally, as an undocumented trans woman of color, and, you know, my community is facing a lot of incarceration, police brutality and deportation. So I do believe that we are at a point where we have to—you know, the mainstream LGBT community can come and get behind the transgender community and include all the voices and listen to the struggles that we are facing. And hopefully we can move in the right direction and make progress for all of us.
AMY GOODMAN: Marc Solomon, you’re the national campaign director of Freedom to Marry. What happens with this organization now?
MARC SOLOMON: So, our organization, as we have always promised, will shut down in the next few months. But the fight for equality for LGBT people must continue. And there are some crucial items on the agenda that—I believe we can harness all of the momentum and all of the conversations and all of the goodwill that’s come out of this marriage ruling to make steady and actually rapid progress.
AMY GOODMAN: Your book is called Winning Marriage: The Inside Story of How Same-Sex Couples Took on the Politicians and Pundits—and Won. Do you have any strategy suggestions for all that you have won, for all you’ve learned in this victory, for how people organize effectively?
MARC SOLOMON: Absolutely. I think—I mean, I have a number of them. And of course people can look at the book if they want the full picture. But I think a couple are having a powerful vision of what you want to accomplish, which I think motivated so many people in our community and so many of our allies to get motivated, and then it’s, you know, really looking strategically at the map and where we can put wins on the board and build momentum every single day towards that, towards that end.
AMY GOODMAN: Jennicet Gutiérrez, if you could talk specifically about the experience of immigrants, you, yourself, an undocumented trans activist from Mexico? I mean, it’s quite astounding. I want to go back to that moment. You know, we had you on when you interrupted President Obama Wednesday as he spoke to a gathering celebrating LGBT Pride Month at the White House. You got in. This is what happened.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I want to thank all of you—advocates, organizers, friends, families—for being here today. And over the years, we’ve gathered to celebrate Pride Month, and I’ve told you that I’m so hopeful about what we can accomplish. I’ve told you that the civil rights of LGBT Americans—
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: President Obama—
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yeah, hold on a second.
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: Release all LGBTQ detention centers! President Obama, stop the torture and abuse of trans women in detention centers! President Obama, I am a trans woman. I’m tired of the abuse. I’m tired of [inaudible]—
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Listen, you’re in my house. ... As a general rule, I am just fine with a few hecklers, but not when I’m up in the house.
AMY GOODMAN: That was President Obama and Jennicet Gutiérrez last Wednesday at the White House. If you had the microphone for longer, Jennicet, if you could talk about the plight of undocumented trans immigrants—a six-month Fusion investigation found some 75 transgender detainees are detained by immigration authorities every day?
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: Yes, that is correct. And I have been involved, especially in the last two months, with this community, in particular, that has been affected. And I have spoken to specifically two transgender women from Guatemala who came to the U.S. in hope of a better treatment and a better future. And they turned themselves in to the immigration officials, and only to be put into these detention centers. So they shared their horrific stories, the abuse, the torture, that they’re being—going through in these facilities. And, you know, the abuse that they’re facing is like sexual abuse. They’re being harassed. When they need to take showers, the officials say, like, "Turn around. Let me see your breasts." And they want to touch them. And other people detained, they’re sexually abusing them. So, to me, that was very heartbreaking to hear. And I connected with her—you know, with that, because I am an undocumented woman, and I am potentially at risk to be put in one of these detention centers. So it is very important for the mainstream LGBT community to listen to these struggles and to unite and do something that will benefit us all and move us in the right direction.
AMY GOODMAN: And the issue of housing?
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: Yes, housing is a huge issue that we face, as well. And, you know, I have known people, transgender people, who I’ve been coming in contact to through the last year or so, and they have employment, and they transition during the work, and they—once they transition, they get fired, because they don’t support it, and then they have to be demoted with the risk of losing housing. So that is another very critical issue that we have to come together and face this and get behind our community and, you know, do see something productive and positive in the struggles that we’re facing.
AMY GOODMAN: U.S. Army whistleblower Chelsea Manning has a new piece in The Guardian. It’s called "Same-sex marriage isn’t equality for all LGBT people. Our movement can’t end," she wrote. In it, Chelsea Manning writes, "I worry that, with full marriage equality, much of the queer community will be left wondering how else to engage with a society that still wants to define who we are—and who in our community will be left to push for full equality for all transgender and queer people, now that this one fight has been won. I fear that our precious movements for social justice and all the remarkable advancements we have made are now vulnerable to being taken over by monied people and institutions, and that those of us for whom same-sex marriage rights brings no equality will be slowly erased from our movement and our history." She wrote this in prison. Chelsea Manning, of course, is the whistleblower who was an Iraq intelligence officer, released documents to WikiLeaks revealing U.S. killings in Iraq, and has been sentenced to decades in prison. As you hear Chelsea’s words, Marc Solomon, your response?
MARC SOLOMON: I am much more positive or much more optimistic than that. I think that with this tremendous win nationwide for equality and dignity for so many people, I believe that Americans now see a much more multidimensional aspect of who our entire community is, and I think that they are—I mean, they are fully behind protections on employment, on housing, on public accommodations. And I think, you know, we also now have a huge amount of power, that we’ve harnessed through the marriage conversation, with all of these companies that are behind us, you know, and I think we just need to take that power and move it and drive it towards nondiscrimination protections. And I think we can—we can do it. I think we can do it with a Republican Congress. I think we can do it in red states. We just need to move, you know, forward.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, here in New York City, the Stonewall Inn, the site of the uprising that helped launch the modern LGBT movement, has been granted landmark status by a city commission. The Stonewall uprising began the morning of June 28th, 1969, when members of the gay community decided to fight back against yet another New York City police raid on a Greenwich Village gay bar. Stacy Lentz, co-owner of the Stonewall Inn, praised its new landmark status.
STACY LENTZ: On that particular night, they had enough. They were fed up. And it was the first time that people from LBGT backgrounds actually stood up and kind of said, "We’re queer, we’re here, get used to it," shut the police outside and started throwing pennies and that thing. They call it a riot, but it was pretty peaceful, for the most part, you know, a few cars overturned and those kind of things and throwing things. But for the most part, though, people gathered for three days after that. And the next year, there was actually the first LBGT pride parade.
AMY GOODMAN: Jennicet Gutiérrez, it was trans activists the led that uprising, is that right? Sylvia Rivera.
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: Yes, that is correct. And that is something that we must not forget. You know, transgender women of color were at the frontlines of this current LGBTQ movement, and we need to give them credit. And we also need to be listening to the concerns that these people were bringing up to the community and that were still trying to be ignored. So now I think we are at a critical moment where our mainstream LGBTQ community can reach out to organizations who have been advocating for transgender people, and to start providing funds and to start opening up resources so that more members of our community do see the benefit and are treated with respect and dignity.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Cathy Marino-Thomas of Marriage Equality USA.
CATHY MARINO-THOMAS: No, no, no. You know, we’re not fully equal. We have still some of our brothers and sisters that suffer. Our transgender brothers and sisters have virtually no legal protection. We have over 5,000 LGBT homeless youth in Manhattan alone every night. We have to fix those problems. We have to be able to move freely around the world as equal and supported citizens. But this is a significant step. For today, we enjoy the win.
AMY GOODMAN: Cathy Marino-Thomas of Marriage Equality USA. As we wrap up, final comments, Jennicet?
JENNICET GUTIÉRREZ: I just want to say, you know, my mainstream community, it was heartbreaking, and it really—I felt betrayed when they turned their back on me. So I believe now they are in a position to do the right thing and to reach out to us and to include us in the conversation and listen to our struggles.
AMY GOODMAN: Jennicet Gutiérrez, I want to thank you for being back with us, undocumented trans activist from Mexico, founding member of Familia: TQLM, established to advocate for LGBTQ immigrants often excluded in the immigration debate. And again, thank you to Marc Solomon, national campaign director of Freedom to Marry, the author of Winning Marriage: The Inside Story of How Same-Sex Couples Took on the Politicians and Pundits—and Won. Marc just wrote an article for the New York Daily News headlined "A field guide to making history," and we’ll link to it at democracynow.org.
When we come back, speaking of making history, Bree Newsome scales the flagpole in Columbia, South Carolina, on the Capitol grounds and takes down the Confederate battle flag. Stay with us.
Headlines:
LGBTQ Weddings, Pride Celebrations Follow Historic Supreme Court Ruling on Marriage Equality
Same-sex weddings took place across the country this weekend after the Supreme Court ruled that all 50 states must now permit LGBTQ couples "the fundamental right to marry." The historic decision puts an end to marriage equality bans that remained in 14 states, impacting tens of thousands of couples. The plaintiff in the case, Jim Obergefell, celebrated the victory.
Jim Obergefell: "Today’s ruling from the Supreme Court affirms what millions across this country already know to be true in our hearts: Our love is equal, that the four words etched onto the front of the Supreme Court, 'equal justice under law,' apply to us, too. It’s my hope that the term 'gay marriage' will soon be a thing of the past, that from this day forward it will simply be 'marriage,' and our nation will be better off because of it."
Obergefell’s home state of Ohio had refused to recognize his marriage on the death certificate of his late husband, John Arthur. Friday’s ruling coincided with Pride Day events across the country this weekend, drawing hundreds of thousands of people to the streets in celebration.
Funerals for Church Massacre Victims Continue; Obama Calls for Tackling Racial Bias
Funerals continue in South Carolina for the African-American victims of the massacre at Emanuel AME Church. Laid to rest this weekend were Cynthia Graham Hurd, Susie Jackson, Tywanza Sanders and the Reverend DePayne Middleton-Doctor. On Friday, President Obama delivered the eulogy at the funeral for South Carolina State Senator and Reverend Clementa Pinckney, the pastor of Emanuel AME. In his address, Obama urged the nation to tackle racial bias and inequities in the political, economic and judicial system.
President Obama: "For too long, we’ve been blind to the way past injustices continue to shape the present. Perhaps we see that now. Perhaps this tragedy causes us to ask some tough questions about how we can permit so many of our children to languish in poverty or attend dilapidated schools or grow up without prospects for a job or for a career. Perhaps it causes us to examine what we’re doing to cause some of our children to hate. Perhaps it softens hearts towards those lost young men, tens and tens of thousands caught up in the criminal justice system, and lead us to make sure that that system is not infected with bias."
President Obama closed his address by leading the crowd in a version of "Amazing Grace."
Activist Arrested After Scaling Flagpole, Removing Confederate Flag from State Capitol
The following day, a 30-year-old African-American woman was arrested at the state Capitol after scaling the 30-foot flagpole and unhooking the Confederate flag. As police officers shouted at her to come down, Bree Newsome shimmied to the top, took the flag in her hand and said, "You come against me with hatred and oppression and violence. I come against you in the name of God. This flag comes down today." The action went viral and was seen around the world.
Greece Closes Banks, Calls Referendum on European Austerity Demands
Greece’s standoff with international creditors has intensified with emergency banking measures and a plan to put austerity demands to a popular vote. Over the weekend, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras announced a national referendum for next Sunday on whether the country should accept the terms of a new international bailout. European creditors want Greece to accept an austerity package in exchange for new loans that would help it avoid a default. The European Central Bank followed by rejecting Greece’s request to extend an emergency loan program until after the vote. In response, Tsipras announced the closure of Greek banks and the stock market, as well as restrictions on bank transfers. Tsipras called the rejection of a loan extension "blackmail."
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras: "It is more than obvious that this decision has no other purpose but to blackmail the Greek people and to obstruct the smooth democratic processes of the referendum. One thing is certain: The rejection of the request for a short extension and the attempt to cancel a democratic process is an insult and a shame for the democratic traditions of Europe."
Tspipras has urged voters to reject the bailout terms, saying creditors want Greece "to abandon our dignity." Greek banks will remain closed until after Sunday’s referendum. Bank machines are reopening today with withdrawal limits of around $66. Greece faces a Tuesday deadline to make a $1.8 billion payment to the IMF or face a default.
Iran Nuclear Talks to Miss Tuesday Deadline
The Iran nuclear talks are likely to miss Tuesday’s deadline for a comprehensive agreement. Foreign Minister Javad Zarif has returned to Iran to discuss a final negotiation position with the country’s top leadership. Ahead of Zarif’s departure, Secretary of State John Kerry acknowledged gaps remain.
Secretary of State John Kerry: "I think it’s fair to say that we’re hopeful. We have a lot of hard work to do. There are some very tough issues. And I think we all look forward to getting down to the final effort here to see whether or not a deal is possible. I think everybody would like to see an agreement, but we have to work through some difficult issues."
The outstanding differences include access to international inspectors and Iranian nuclear activity in the deal’s final years.
Islamic State Tied to Attacks That Kill Dozens on 3 Continents
Dozens of people were killed on three continents Friday in attacks tied to the Islamic State. In Tunisia, a lone gunman shot dead 38 people in the resort town of Sousse before being killed by police. Most of the victims were European tourists. A witness described the attack.
Katrina: "We were lying at the beach. Everything was fine, it was paradise, beautiful sea, and everything was good. And suddenly make 'pop, pop, pop, pop, pop,' and we thought it was fireworks over there, they were practicing something. And then everybody suddenly stand up, and they were running, running, really fast, and everyone cried, 'Run, run, run, run, run!' And also the security, they all told us to 'run, run. Go into your rooms. Run away.'"
The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the Tunisia massacre. Thousands of Tunisians marched in Sousse on Saturday to denounce the killings and show solidarity with the victims. ISIL also took credit for a simultaneous attack in Kuwait, where a suicide bomber killed 27 people at a Shiite mosque. Kuwait has identified the bomber as a Saudi citizen who flew into the country just hours before. Thousands of Shiites and Sunnis marched in Kuwait City on Saturday in a mass funeral procession for the victims. Meanwhile in France, two militants attacked a U.S.-owned factory in the town of Grenoble, leaving one victim decapitated and several others wounded. The attackers tried to blow up the factory by ramming their car into gas containers. The decapitated victim had employed one of the two suspects. The attackers reportedly carried an ISIL flag and covered the victim’s head in Arabic script.
Thousands March for Climate Justice in Rome Ahead of Vatican Conference
Thousands of people marched in Rome on Sunday to promote Pope Francis’ historic call for global action on climate change. A Vatican encyclical this month urged world leaders to pay their "grave social debt" to the poor and take swift action to save the planet from environmental ruin. A march participant said the cause of climate justice unites all faiths.
Daniel Blackman: "I think what it’s saying is that globally the moral and the spiritual concern has grown. And the fact that there are so many different faiths says that communities are willing to put aside their differences and their different faiths to come together on a common issue. So, whether it’s the pope through the encyclical or it’s the Muslim community or the Christian community or the Catholic community, we have all come together to address it, because it’s an issue that affects all of us as human beings."
The Vatican is hosting a conference on climate change this week with activists and scientists from around the world.
New York Prisoner Manhunt Ends with Capture, Killing
A three-week manhunt has ended in New York after two escaped murderers were shot by law enforcement, one of them fatally, near the Canadian border. David Sweat was shot and arrested Sunday afternoon near Coveytown. His capture comes two days after a federal agent shot dead his fellow escapee, Richard Matt. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced the manhunt is over.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo: "The nightmare is finally over. It took 22 days, but we can now confirm, as of two days ago, as you know, Mr. Matt is deceased, and the other escapee, Mr. Sweat, is in custody. He’s in stable condition. And let’s give a big round of applause to the men and women of law enforcement, who have done a great job."
The prisoners used power tools to drill through the walls and break out of the Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora. Two prison workers have been arrested for allegedly aiding with their escape.
Puerto Rico Says It Can’t Pay $72B in Public Debt
And Puerto Rico has announced it won’t be able to pay back its $72 billion in public debt. State officials are reportedly seeking to delay payments in talks with creditors. Governor Alejandro García Padilla is reportedly set to call for hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts in a budget address today.
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"This Flag Comes Down Today": Bree Newsome Scales Flagpole, Removes SC Capitol Confederate Flag
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