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"The 9/11 of the Black Church": Mourners Flock to SC as Funerals Begin for Emanuel Massacre Victims
Democracy Now! broadcasts from Charleston, South Carolina, in front of the Emanuel AME Church, Mother Emanuel, where nine people were gunned down on June 17 as they attended Bible study. On Thursday, mourners gathered for the first two funerals in a series of services that will continue today and over the weekend. Loved ones remembered Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, a 45-year-old mother of three, reverend and high school track coach; and Ethel Lance, a 70-year-old grandmother who had worked at Emanuel AME for more than three decades. The funeral for Emanuel AME’s pastor, Rev. Clementa Pinckney, also a state senator, will be held today. President Obama will deliver the eulogy. Outside Rev. Pinckney’s wake on Thursday, the line wrapped around the block. We hear from some of those who came to pay their respects. "To me it’s the 9/11 of the black church," says Rev. J. Michael Little. "We snatched victory out of this. [Dylann Roof] wanted civil war, but instead it’s a rally for unity."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re on the road in Charleston, South Carolina, right in front of Emanuel AME Church—that’s Mother Emanuel—where on June 17 nine people were gunned down in the basement as they attended Bible study. We’re on Calhoun Street, named for one of the most prominent pro-slavery figures in history—yes, John C. Calhoun, the late senator and vice president, who argued slavery was a "positive good" rather than a "necessary evil."
Well, on Thursday, people gathered to attend the first two funerals in a series of services that will continue today and over the weekend. Loved ones remembered Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, a 45-year-old mother of three, reverend and high school track coach; and Ethel Lance, a 70-year-old grandmother who had worked at Emanuel AME for more than three decades. South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley attended the services, along with Reverend Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. This is Ethel Lance’s granddaughter and grandson.
AURELIA WASHINGTON: I want everybody to know that my grandmother is a wonderful, wonderful, precious woman. And we don’t have no hate for nobody, because our power of love is stronger than ever.
BRANDON RISHER: Ethel, E-T-H-E-L. E, everybody in this room. T, tough, tough love, tough love. She will show you tough love. That’s just because she wants you to strive and do better. H, her. Again, that’s everybody in this room. E, equality. She believed in that. And L, love. That’s Ethel. That’s everybody in this room.
AMY GOODMAN: On Wednesday, thousands filed past the body of the Emanuel AME Church’s pastor, 41-year-old Reverend Clementa Pinckney, also a South Carolina state senator, as he lay in state at the Capitol, one of the few African Americans to do so. His body had to be brought past the Confederate flag at the state Capitol, the symbol embraced by the alleged shooter, Dylann Roof. On Thursday, Reverend Pinckney’s body was taken to Ridgeland here in South Carolina, his hometown church, and then to Mother Emanuel right here in Charleston, where again thousands lined up around the blocks to see him, among them activist Austin McCoy, who drove to Charleston from Ann Arbor, Michigan, and described what it was like inside the church.
AUSTIN McCOY: I walked through and saw his body. And yeah, it was just striking how they put a microphone in one hand, or his microphone, and a pair of his glasses, and had him dressed in his religious garb. It was, yeah, really quiet, heavy, you know, obviously very emotional. I mean, I’m still trying to process what I just saw.
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Pinckney’s funeral will be held today at the College of Charleston, not far from where we are now, with President Obama offering the eulogy and first lady Michelle Obama, Vice President Biden, members of Congress, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton all in attendance. This is Reverend McKinley Washington Jr. speaking at Reverend Pinckney’s wake on Thursday.
REV. McKINLEY WASHINGTON JR.: Whoever thought that a little black boy from Jasper County would bring the president of the United States of America and the vice president of the United States of America to Charleston County? And he paid the price for you and for me. And because of that price, things positive would happen in South Carolina, changed folks’ hearts, changed South Carolina. So long, Brother Pinckney. We love you, brother. [inaudible]
AMY GOODMAN: Outside Reverend Pinckney’s wake, the line wrapped around the block. The wake was scheduled to end at 8:00 p.m., but it was after 9:00 when police finally closed off the line, moving in the barricades. Outside the church, we spoke to some of the people who came to Mother Emanuel to pay their last respects.
REBECCA DANIEL DUGGER: Rebecca Daniel Dugger. I’m from Atlanta, Georgia. And, actually, Sharonda Coleman-Singleton was our sorority sister. And so we’re here to honor her. We were here for her funeral services today and to just show support to the people of Charleston. She was a mother. She was a coach. She was a minister. She was a woman of God, and she was a woman of service. And she took in all people, all kinds of folks. And she just would minister to them, not only about the gospel, just about life. And so, she was just a beautiful, beautiful person. And she instilled that also in her children. And so, we are just here really to uplift her and support her.
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: I’m Reverend J. Michael Little. I’m a pastor in D.C. at the Friendship Baptist Church in D.C. This is my wife Marie.
MARIE LITTLE: Hi.
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: And I’m basically just traumatized by—
AMY GOODMAN: You flew down?
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: We drove down. We drove down. We actually just got off the road from D.C. You know, we feel like this is a terrible moment in history. We just want to be a part of it. We want to pay our respects, be in prayer and be in solidarity with all the folk down here. It’s—to me, it’s the 911 or the 9/11 of the black church. It’s just—it impacts all of us. And we pastors are profoundly affected, so we couldn’t not come.
MARIE LITTLE: Exactly, exactly.
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: Yeah, we just absolutely had to be here.
MARIE LITTLE: And we’re just shaken and trying to come to grips with it and—but trying to be just like the parishioners here and saying, "You know what? Love trumps all."
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: We’re actually snatching victory out of this. I mean, think about it. He wanted a civil war. He wanted social conflagration. Instead, it’s a rallying point for unity.
MARIE LITTLE: Exactly.
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: I mean, hopefully he can see the news and catch glimpses of what’s going on because of his actions. It’s the—
MARIE LITTLE: Total opposite.
REV. J. MICHAEL LITTLE: It’s evil inverted. It’s just, you know, the way this has turned out.
MOURNERS: [singing] Praise the Lord, Hallelujah, I’m free.
ERIC SNYDER: My name is Eric Snyder. I’ve lived here five years, from New York City.
AMY GOODMAN: You’re starting a petition?
ERIC SNYDER: I am. I’m starting a petition, and I put it on MoveOn.org yesterday. And it’s to rename Calhoun Street to Reverend Clementa Pinckney Street. The indignity that a church that has suffered so much as this one in the history of Charleston has to have as its address John C. Calhoun.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain his significance.
ERIC SNYDER: He’s one of the most important American figures in support of white supremacy. The quotes that he has are just beyond understanding in America 2015 why anyone would honor a man like that. And I do know today, I read online, that some congressmen are starting to look at the John C. Calhoun Memorial in the Capitol rotunda as something that needs to be discussed.
AMY GOODMAN: John C. Calhoun, the former U.S. vice president and U.S. senator—
ERIC SNYDER: Senator, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: —who said slavery is good.
ERIC SNYDER: Yes. He has a lot of quotes defending slavery, and also he has quotes that basically say that this is a battle between the white race and the black race. 2015, that’s not a man to honor.
MOURNERS: [singing] O my Lord, I am on the battlefield for my lord.
REV. JACQUELINE DUPREE: My name is Jacqueline Dupree. I’m a pastor in the African Methodist Episcopal Church of Gainesville, Florida. And my hope is to get into the church today. I’ve been to two of the funerals today, homegoing celebrations. And my thoughts are still a little bit discombobulated. I’m hurting, I’m in pain, just like everybody else. And I pray that out of this tragic, tragic event, that love will still abide. That’s been the whole message the whole time, that love overpowers and is more powerful than hate. And I hope that that just continues to happen as we go through these next days and weeks and months, as we mourn the loss of nine beautiful souls. Yeah.
MOURNERS: [singing] We are soldiers in the army
We got to fight, although we have to cry
We got to hold up the bloodstained banner
We got to hold it up until we die.
AMY GOODMAN: So, as the funerals take place, there’s also the controversy over the Confederate flag. Your thoughts on that?
REV. JACQUELINE DUPREE: Take them down. Put them in their proper place, in order that healing and love may continue to flow, flourish and abide.
AMY GOODMAN: Just some of the people who came here to Mother Emanuel, to the Emanuel AME Church, to pay their respects on Thursday. When we come back from break, as we await the funeral, the Obamas will be here, Vice President Biden and many tens of—many thousands of others, just around the corner at College of Charleston. We’ll be back in a minute with guests here in front of the church. Stay with us.
"Slavery Deeply Embedded" in South Carolina: Emanuel AME Church on Street Named for Racist Lawmaker
When Rev. Clementa Pinckney lay in state at the Capitol this week, his body had to be brought past the Confederate flag that still flies there and is the symbol embraced by his killer, Dylann Roof. The Emanuel AME Church in Charleston is located on Calhoun Street, named for one of the most prominent pro-slavery figures in history, the late Senator and Vice President John C. Calhoun, who argued slavery was a "positive good" rather than a "necessary evil." "Slavery is deeply embedded in the history of this state," says our guest Kevin Alexander Gray, a civil rights activist and community organizer based in Columbia, South Carolina. Alexander notes calls to remove the Confederate flag from the state Capitol are just the beginning of what needs to change. "It’s about where we go moving forward. … We can’t just talk about that flag."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re here in Charleston, South Carolina, right in front of Mother Emanuel. That’s the scene of the crime more than a week ago, when the alleged shooter, Dylann Roof, opened fire on a Bible study class that he himself had attended, slaughtering nine people. The funerals are underway. Today’s funeral is taking place at TD Arena at College of Charleston. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Until yesterday, the president of College of Charleston, Glenn McConnell, had not weighed in on the growing controversy over the Confederate flag. McConnell is a former South Carolina state senator who brokered the legislative compromise in 2000 that saw the Confederate flag moved from atop the state House dome to its current location next to the Confederate Soldier Monument on the main lawn of the Capitol. McConnell is a Civil War re-enactor, the president of College of Charleston, who once owned a Confederate souvenir shop in North Charleston. On Thursday, he broke his silence, saying, quote, "I support Governor Haley’s call to remove the Confederate soldier’s flag from State House grounds as a visible statement of courtesy and good will to all those who may be offended by it. At the same time, I also urge all public officials and activists who are focusing on this issue to come together, the way the good people of Charleston joined hands following the terrible tragedy we suffered, and agree not to transfer the fight to other physical vestiges and memorials of our state’s past. In a spirit of good will and mutual respect, let us all agree that the monuments, cemeteries, historic street and building names shall be preserved and protected. ... Let us all pledge to respect each other and stand together in firm opposition to any efforts to sanitize, rewrite or bulldoze our history," said the president of the College of Charleston, who is a civil rights re-enactor, meaning he puts on a Confederate uniform re-enacting the Civil War.
For more, we’re joined here by Kevin Alexander Gray, a civil rights activist, community organizer, based in Columbia, South Carolina, South Carolina’s capital. He edited the book—co-edited the book Killing Trayvons: An Anthology of American Violence and is author of Waiting for Lightning to Strike: The Fundamentals of Black Politics.
So, start off with the sentiment that is expressed by the president of the place right now where the funeral for Reverend Pinckney will be, where President Obama will be delivering the eulogy, Kevin.
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: You know what? I’m glad that people are expressing their condolences and talking about how much of an outrage the slaughter of these souls has been for the state. But he’s such a hypocrite, because he has defended that flag and he defended this history throughout his career. He has made money on that flag. He has led the fight to expand slave tourism by raising money for the Confederate submarine, Hunley.
And so, what he’s afraid of is that the foundation of this state—the history of the state is so predicated on fighting for slavery, from Calhoun Street that we’re sitting on, named after John C. Calhoun, to when you come through—when you drive down here, you’ll cross over Calhoun County, named after John C. Calhoun—there are numerous streets in this state named after Calhoun.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, interestingly, Calhoun, the vice president, extremely pro-slavery senator—
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: He’s the father—he’s the father of the Ordinance of Nullification, and the words "interposition and nullification" that we often hear Dr. King talk about when we listen to his speeches, the rights of the Southern states to withdraw from the Union, this whole idea of states’ rights, the foundation now—the ideological foundation for the Republican Party in this country. So, you know, yeah, we need to revisit history.
AMY GOODMAN: Interestingly, the statue of Calhoun is almost as high as this church, just down the street.
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: It was built high to keep the freed slaves from tearing it down. That’s why it was built high.
AMY GOODMAN: So, there is this petition, Kevin—we met a man on line, we just played his comments—to change the name of Calhoun Street to Reverend Pinckney Street.
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: Well, I mean, I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but we shouldn’t stop there. We ought to look at who we name all our institutions after. In the state Capitol, the Department of Education’s headquarters building is named after John Rutledge, who was the brother of Edward Rutledge, who was our delegate to the signing of the Declaration of Independence that forced the anti-slavery clause to be taken out of the declaration, that codified slavery. So slavery is so deeply embedded in the history of this state. So many names of streets and symbols and monuments are named after Confederate heroes. And then, even if you talk about that monument in which they’re flying the flag at now, the Confederate soldiers’ monument, it was only put there at the turn of the century with the rise of the culture of the lost cause. A lot of the names of these streets were put there after Reconstruction to reclaim power in this state, when black people had no power and no say in naming these streets.
AMY GOODMAN: Kevin Alexander Gray, just behind us, the hearse has pulled up just behind us in front of Mother Emanuel. Reverend Pinckney lay in state here yesterday. Thousands of people lined up. And the hearse, I assume, will be going over to the College of Charleston.
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: College of Charleston.
AMY GOODMAN: But the comments of the president of the College of Charleston—finally broke his silence and said don’t wreck the monuments.
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: Well, someone probably told him not to say anything earlier, because he is such a lightning rod and a big defender of the flag and of Southern culture. And the thing is, they just can’t wrap their brains around the fact that the culture is based on support of slavery and the expansion of slavery, and that’s the legacy. They believe that the Civil War was some noble fight and that their parents went off to fight a noble war, when they fought a war that was immoral, and their ancestors were wrong.
AMY GOODMAN: In a moment, we’re going to be joined by Reverend Al Sharpton, who gave one of the eulogies yesterday at one of the first funerals. We will also hear from Muhiyidin d’Baha, who was very active on the issue of the police in North Charleston when Walter Scott was gunned down. Interestingly, Officer Michael Slager, charged with murder, is in the Charleston jail alongside Dylann Storm Roof. Final comments, Kevin Alexander Gray?
KEVIN ALEXANDER GRAY: Well, I think it’s about where we go, moving forward. And we can’t just talk about that flag and burying these souls. We have to talk about how do we deal with structural racism and white supremacy, not just in South Carolina, but all across America.
AMY GOODMAN: Kevin Alexander Gray, thanks so much.
Rev. Al Sharpton: Removing the Confederate Flag is Welcome–But 150 Years Too Late
As funerals begin for the victims, Al Sharpton, the civil rights leader and MSNBC host, reflects on the Charleston massacre and the renewed battle over the Confederate flag. This week South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley called for the flag’s removal from the state Capitol grounds, while Alabama Governor Robert Bentley took the flag down in his state. "It’s about 150 years too late," Rev. Sharpton says. "Someone should have told them they lost the Civil War."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We turn right now to Reverend Al Sharpton, who was standing here just a few minutes ago before the broadcast began, as I talked to him about what has taken place in South Carolina, the heart of the Confederacy.
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Sharpton, your comments on this sacred day of one of the funerals?
REV. AL SHARPTON: Well, I think that this is a day that reminds us, despite all that we have seen, that we still have raw, violent racism in this country, terrorism. And the last time I saw Reverend Pinckney, here, not two months ago, where here, in Charleston, around the case of Scott, where I had come down, where our chapter of National Action Network had a prayer vigil at the scene Walter Scott was killed by police, and Reverend Pinckney did the prayer. I came back two months later to stand, last Thursday, the day after he was killed, in this sacred church.
And as I said at the funeral yesterday of Sharonda [Coleman-Singleton], that taking the flag down, without changing the policies, is not enough. Yes, we want the Confederate flag down. It should have never been up. But now Governor Haley and them, that were for the flag, are against the flag. And I said to her that she only knew me from looking out the window protesting. She said, "Oh, I would have hugged you if you’d come inside." We don’t want just a hug. We want to deal with voting rights, police reform. We still have not gone to trial on the Scott case in this state. There’s no hate crime bill in this state. We still must deal with Medicaid. So I think that the reality is that the climate that this young terrorist felt justified in is still among us.
AMY GOODMAN: What about the fact that FBI Director James Comey came out right away and said that this was not terrorism?
REV. AL SHARPTON: If this is not terrorism, then what is terrorism? To go in a church and sit an hour and wait to shoot multiple people, including an elected official, is terrorism by any definition.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you think Governor Haley could have taken down the flag on her own?
REV. AL SHARPTON: I think that Governor Haley could have and should have taken it down on her own. And if there was some legal statute, she should have removed it and had them challenge and let them be the guilty party.
AMY GOODMAN: Your comments on the Republican governor of Alabama, who took it down?
REV. AL SHARPTON: I think that it was good, but it was about 150 years too late. My mother was born and buried in Alabama. Somebody should have told them they lost the Civil War, at least that part of it. The flag is not only a flag of racism and lynching and slavery, it’s a flag of treason. These are people that challenged the government of the United States and tried to overthrow Abe Lincoln’s government.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you say to those who say this is about heritage, not hate?
REV. AL SHARPTON: It’s a heritage of slavery. It’s a heritage of lynching. It’s a heritage of we are less than human. They want to be proud of that heritage? Fine. But you don’t put it up on a public square where taxpayers fund it and subsidize it.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you think it’s possible that Dylann shot the roof off of the Confederacy?
REV. AL SHARPTON: I think that it is possible Dylann shot the roof off of the Confederacy. What I don’t want to see is the Confederates get away with just changing the curtains in the window rather than the structure of the building.
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Sharpton, you’re standing in front of Mother Emanuel, the Emanuel AME Church, but you are standing on Calhoun Street. And just down the road is a statue of the former U.S. vice president, John Calhoun, known for his pro-slavery stance, saying slavery is good.
REV. AL SHARPTON: These are signs of the celebratory way that those that advanced slavery and lynching, those that advanced treason, have been treated in the South—and in the North. In Brooklyn, New York, at Fort Hamilton, is a Robert E. Lee Street, the general of the Confederate Army. So, we have got to stop romanticizing and trying to justify, in the name of heritage, people that were outright committing treason and had a quest—and, in fact, made their quest a reality—of enslaving people that became American citizens and were brought here to build this country on the backs of slaves.
AMY GOODMAN: We just talked to a Charleston resident who said he started a petition to rename Calhoun Street, here in front of Mother Emanuel, Reverend Pinckney Street. Your thoughts?
REV. AL SHARPTON: My thoughts is that that would be wonderful. I would celebrate that. Nothing would be greater than to change it from Calhoun, who advocated Confederacy, to Reverend Pinckney, who advocated liberation. But then we have to change the policies that are conducted on the street.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, the Black Lives Matter movement, "Black Lives Matter" being put on Confederate statues, your thoughts?
REV. AL SHARPTON: I think that is wonderful, because I think the Confederacy was that black lives don’t matter. And I think what is really the most inspiring thing I’ve seen since Reverend Pinckney was killed is when I saw young white kids in the Deep South holding up signs saying "Black Lives Matter."
AMY GOODMAN: That was the Reverend Al Sharpton, the Reverend Al Sharpton, earlier this morning in front of Mother Emanuel. And as we broadcast today, the casket of Reverend Clementa Pinckney has just been brought out by a state police honor guard, his casket covered with flowers, as they solemnly descended the stairs of Mother Emanuel. See, the first floor of the church is called the basement, and that’s where the Bible study took place two Wednesdays ago, that the accused shooter, Dylann Roof, was a part of, and then, after an hour, allegedly opened fire, killing nine of the parishioners who were at Bible study. Upstairs is the chapel, where Reverend Pinckney lay in state. The funeral will take place at College of Charleston arena, the TD Arena, because it was believed that so many—and clearly it’s true, because thousands gathered for the hours yesterday to see Reverend Pinckney, to pay last respects yesterday. I believe the arena holds something like 5,400 people. There are many expected who will be outside.
4 Decades After Burning Confederate Flag, SC Activist Brett Bursey Says the Struggle Goes On
In Charleston, South Carolina, we speak with Brett Bursey, director of the South Carolina Progressive Network, who calls himself the oldest living Confederate prisoner of war. He says he is still out on bond after he burned the Confederate flag in 1969. Bursey knew Rev. Clementa Pinckney and says, "I feel a responsibility to Clementa to take advantage of the sacrifice he made to challenge the hypocrisy and bigotry" of Governor Nikki Haley and Republican lawmakers who backed voter ID legislation and blocked the expansion of Medicaid eligibility in the state.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Brett Bursey is with us right now, director of the South Carolina Progressive Network. He burned the Confederate flag in 1969. He calls himself the oldest living Confederate prisoner of war. Brett Bursey is head of the South Carolina progressive coalition.
Brett, welcome to Democracy Now! Your thoughts, as just behind us, the body of Reverend Pinckney, in the hearse now, as it is taken slowly around the corner to College of Charleston?
BRETT BURSEY: Well, Amy, first, let me say that I was a good friend of Clementa’s. And when he came to the state House, he was 23, 24 years old. The Progressive Network does a lot of policy work and for the Black Caucus, and Clementa was one of our sponsors for a clean elections bill, and he was our spokesperson about the corrupting influence of money on politics for several years. I knew the wife, the kids.
And it’s just—it’s been such an impactful thing that I feel a responsibility to Clementa, and the other people that are dead, to take advantage of the opportunities their sacrifices made to challenge the hypocrisy and the cynicism that fuels the bigotry, that will still be there if they take the flag down. I mean, the governor has come out and said, "Take the flag down." She wouldn’t have done that if this hadn’t happened. I mean, she has a little understanding of how negative her policies impact people, refusing to take the Medicaid expansion money. We’ve knocked on doors in South Carolina to talk to people about—that didn’t get any healthcare. And when we told them that the governor said they didn’t want it, we don’t need it, they wanted to know why. And we told them, "Well, you’ll have to call the governor. I can’t explain why she would deny you healthcare." And so, it’s disingenuous and hypocritical, what we’re seeing, all these politicians coming out an decrying—
AMY GOODMAN: And the voting rights?
BRETT BURSEY: —decrying racism. Where have they been?
AMY GOODMAN: Voting rights?
BRETT BURSEY: Nikki was a big champion of photo ID bills that would have kept people from voting. And we found a dozen people and had a successful case, Section 5 case, in the Department of Justice to block the bill. And they rewrote the bill in Washington, D.C., in court, and the court said you don’t need a photo ID under the new photo ID law. So it was just tremendous kabuki theater that disenfranchises people. We have the lowest—least competitive elections in the nation, that 75 percent of our legislators are elected with no opposition. And that the idea that the people that are championing our democracy have shut the process down, we have profound problems. And I really do feel that some of this energy that’s coming from this terrible tragedy is going to help direct some energy toward solving some of these longer institutional problems that we have.
AMY GOODMAN: Brett Bursey, can you talk about what you did in 1969?
BRETT BURSEY: Well, it’s kind of like what I just said. I mean, I was raised in the South. I graduated from Beaufort High School 1966, a segregated high school, and came up to the University of South Carolina, then got involved with the Southern Student Organizing Committee, which was a civil rights group that was formed when the white people left SNCC. And I was a state traveler for SSOC in '68 and ’69. The occasion of the flag burning at the university was on the anniversary of the Orangeburg massacre, when in 1968 students at State University, which is the school's historic black college in Orangeburg, were gunned down by highway patrolmen. Three of them were killed, 29 injured. And no one—
AMY GOODMAN: You’re talking Orangeburg, the Orangeburg massacre.
BRETT BURSEY: Orangeburg, the Orangeburg massacre.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain it very quickly. You’re talking about February of?
BRETT BURSEY: February 8, 1968.
AMY GOODMAN: Right before Dr. King was assassinated in Memphis.
BRETT BURSEY: That was in April. And so, the event where the flag was burned was the first anniversary, in ’69, of the Orangeburg massacre. And I put on an event called—we were going to call it Black Awareness Week, but we called it White Awareness Week.
AMY GOODMAN: But Orangeburg is so important. I remember when President Obama was first running for president—
BRETT BURSEY: He mentioned it.
AMY GOODMAN: —and he went bowling, and he gutterballed, and everyone was making fun of him. But what was so significant is he’s an African-American man bowling, because Orangeburg was about a bowling alley, is that right?
BRETT BURSEY: It was about a bowling alley.
AMY GOODMAN: About integrating a bowling alley. And the police, without warning, opened fire on the students who were fighting for that integration of the alley.
BRETT BURSEY: Yes, and no one was ever punished for that killing. Cleve Sellers, one of the organizers—he was working with SNCC—ended up spending, I think, a year in jail.
But the flag was burned, in part because the university was using the flag, the Confederate flag, and playing "Dixie" at sporting events, a sea of Confederate flags. And we marched up to the president’s house and demanded they quit doing that, and he said, "OK." And we felt all empowered. We marched up to the Legislature, which was across the street from the university, and that was the first time I realized that all 170 legislators were white, and there hadn’t been a black legislator since the end of Reconstruction in the 1890s. We went back to the campus. This is now—the flag was on the dome at the time. The flag went up April 12th, 1961, on the anniversary, 100th anniversary, of the start of the Civil War, which of course was brought to you by people here in Charleston, South Carolina. And we burned the flag. And I was arrested five days later for defacing or defiling or casting contempt by word or deed upon flags of the Confederacy.
AMY GOODMAN: So you burned the flag where?
BRETT BURSEY: On the university campus, in front of the president’s house.
AMY GOODMAN: You were arrested.
BRETT BURSEY: Yeah. Yeah, I was arrested, and—
AMY GOODMAN: Did you go to jail?
BRETT BURSEY: I went to jail, paid my bond, got out, and I’m still awaiting trial.
AMY GOODMAN: So you call yourself?
BRETT BURSEY: Well, it’s—yeah, it’s a partially humorous term that I feel I’ve earned, in being the oldest living Confederate prisoner of war. I had—it’s one of the worst things, clearly, I ever did in the eyes of authorities in South Carolina. I’ve been identified as someone that did that, and beaten up in police custody because of that.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you, Brett Bursey, for joining us. The hearse has just moved on. Brett Bursey, director of the South Carolina Progressive Network, burned the Confederate flag back in 1969. This is Democracy Now! We’ll be back here in front of the Mother Emanuel church in Charleston, South Carolina, in a minute.
After Walter Scott Murder & Church Massacre, "Black Lives Matter" Takes on Special Meaning in SC
The Emanuel AME shooting suspect Dylann Roof is now jailed next to Michael Slager, the police officer who shot and killed unarmed African American Walter Scott earlier this year in nearby North Charleston. We discuss the state of local activism in the aftermath of the slayings with Muhiyidin d’Baha, an organizer with Black Lives Matter Charleston. "This is not new. We’ve been terrorized for hundreds of years," d’Baha says. "This is a generation that’s not going to raise our children within the white supremacist structure."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting from Charleston, South Carolina, outside the historic Emanuel AME Church, where nine African-American worshipers were gunned down on June 17th as they attended Bible study. Just minutes ago, state troopers brought Reverend Clementa Pinckney’s casket down the steps into a hearse. His funeral is being held just blocks from here at College of Charleston, with President Obama delivering the eulogy. The church shooting suspect, Dylann Roof, is now jailed next to Officer Michael Slager, the policeman who shot and killed unarmed African American Walter Scott earlier this year in nearby North Charleston.
To talk about the impact of last week’s massacre on the Black Lives Matter movement, we are joined right now by Muhiyidin d’Baha, an organizer with Black Lives Matter Charleston.
Welcome to Democracy Now!
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Thank you. Thank you very much.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s great to have you with us. As we are broadcasting, you saw the casket of Pastor Pinckney being brought down the stairs. Your thoughts today?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Yeah, the victimization, being terrorized, the impact is always the same. When we’re being terrorized as a community for the last 400 years, it doesn’t matter whether it’s condoned by the state or it’s not condoned by the state. The impact on the community is feeling victimized. And so, as I watched that casket go, I just was shaking my head. Like, when will this end, and how will it end?
AMY GOODMAN: You know, we last talked to you when Walter Scott was killed. Can you talk about what happened then, the actions you were taking then, and how you connected to what has just taken place, this slaughter?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Most definitely.
AMY GOODMAN: In—well, it used to be one town, North Charleston and Charleston, now it’s two?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. So, again, it’s the same impact upon the community. Whether it’s condoned by the state—state-sponsored violence in Walter Scott’s case—or whether it’s not condoned by the state, the impact is still the same. White supremacy is still ruling and controlling our lives in certain ways that policies, practices and procedures really make up and dictate the way that we live our lives, and it’s enforced by law. It’s enforced and condoned by law. And so, even when we get a sense of sitting on the street, the laws, policies and practices in this town, the way that our schools are organized, the gentrification, it’s all controlling the confinement of our lives and the way that we move. And so, this is just a continuation of that victimization that’s been happening for a very long time, that dehumanization.
AMY GOODMAN: And your thoughts of Officer Slager, the officer who killed Walter Scott, charged with murder, and Dylann Roof in the same jail? It’s a new jail, actually, the Charleston jail.
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Again, this white supremacy is existing within our social structure and has been here for a very long time, so the impact upon the community is always the same. That they’re sitting together, they’ve always been together. You know, they come from the same ideology. They come from the same soil. And so, it’s the soil, it’s the nutrients here, it’s the flag, it’s the ideology, it’s the symbols, that we’re really after.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask what you thought about—well, a number of monuments have been what the media calls "defaced." I think on the Calhoun statue, what did it say?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: "Racist."
AMY GOODMAN: It says "Calhoun" and then it’s graffitied "racist."
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: "Racist," mm-hmm.
AMY GOODMAN: And then, on the monument, the Confederate monument in Columbia, spray-painted the words "Black Lives Matter." People have said they have defaced these statues. Would you call it a defacement?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Oh, it’s more of a bringing into light what really is. And I think that’s what we’re trying to do with our movement right now in the way that we’re—our rhetoric. It’s re-examining our history and the white supremacist structures in our history, and naming them and calling them what they are. So when we talk about the flag, we don’t get into agitation of race, we get into talks about abolition and states’ rights. We talk about the reality of it. This country is founded upon economic capital developed from free and cheap labor. Now that that cheap labor is not used because of technological innovation, we have the prison-industrial complex and other ways to subsidize people’s living and housing. Again, the impact on the community has not changed. It’s still the same exact story.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you think what has taken place here, the slaughter that happened just over a week ago—the funerals are underway right now, right through the weekend—will affect the Black Lives Matter movement around the country?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Most definitely. It’s going to ramp it up into another level. Such an assassination—which it was—of a leader, of somebody that’s on the ground trying to bring the grassroots energy, trying to bring the agenda of the people into policy, then to be assassinated, we have to be able to change our rhetoric, and we change our discourse and actually get more passionate. We can’t let another generation grow up under white supremacy enforced by terrorism.
AMY GOODMAN: Any final words on this day, a really sacred day here? As we are here, the hearse has just driven away with Reverend Pinckney’s body. Still, after Reverend Pinckney, there are six more victims who will be memorialized, the funerals for, over the weekend, leading into next week. Two women were remembered yesterday.
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Your final thoughts about your activism and what your plans are, what you want to see happen?
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: For sure. So, the discourse has to be uplifted, and the ground forces have to become more real. This is not a show. This is not something that just happens. This has been happening to our community. The impact on our community has been for hundreds of years. We’ve been terrorized for hundreds of years. So this isn’t new. Unfortunately, our reaction is not anything novel. We have had to sit and pray and say, "O Lord, please bless us, please protect us." But now it’s no more. Now we have to turn a page in this chapter. It’s not working.
AMY GOODMAN: Kevin Alexander Gray, our guest before, when I said we’re broadcasting from the heart of the Confederacy, he says, "No, you’ve got it wrong. Atlanta is the heart of the Confederacy, and South Carolina is the soul of the Confederacy."
MUHIYIDIN D’BAHA: This is true. Well, we are here. And so, if we’re going to fight this battle, this is the first shots of the Civil War that have just been fired. Literally, this is a generation that is not going to raise our children within this white supremacist structure. Something is going to change. As Minister Farrakhan says, it’s justice or else.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you, Muhiyidin d’Baha, organizer with Black Lives Matter Charleston.
Rev. Jesse Jackson: Take Down the Confederate Flag — and White Supremacist Culture with It
Outside the wake for Rev. Clementa Pinckney, Amy Goodman interviews civil rights leader and South Carolina native Rev. Jesse Jackson, who says of the massacre at Emanuel AME Church, "The question is, is this an embarrassment, or is it transformational?" Jackson argues efforts to remove the Confederate flag from the state Capitol shouldn’t stop there. "If you still have less access to voting, it’s not a good deal. If the flag comes down and you still have racial profiling … it’s not a good deal," Jackson says.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: So many people have gathered in this Southern city. I wanted to turn now to Reverend Jesse Jackson. We saw him last night just as he had come out of the church paying last respects to Reverend Pinckney.
REV. JESSE JACKSON: I think that the emotions are high. People seem to be rallying to each other in unusual ways. The question is, is this embarrassment, or is it transformational? If this had happened in the next state over, would there be the same amount of fervor? Black men, unarmed, are being shot down. We see in this state, for example, Brother Pinckney was fighting to deal with too much easy access to guns.
In this state, 350,000 people have no health insurance, and one quarter of the state is in poverty, and yet they reject $10 billion in Medicaid, with one again in the Supreme Court just today. Twenty-five percent of the population is African-American, and 75 percent of the prison population is African-American, and 20 percent of those do prison labor for 30 to 80 cents an hour. South Carolina state is on the verge of closing because of lack of state investment.
So it seems to me, if we’re going to deal with the issue of poverty and the issues that matter, it must be a transformational moment, not just a kind of embarrassment so we can keep a false face on good news and tourism.
AMY GOODMAN: And your thoughts on the Confederate flag?
REV. JESSE JACKSON: The Confederate flag must come down, or trade must go down. It must be a substantial boycott. And it just can’t apply to South Carolina. You know, the flag represents secession from the United States of America. It represents sedition, an attempt to violently overthrow the government; slavery as a form of economic development; states’ rights over federal rights; and suppression of the rights of women. It’s racist to the extent that it’s white supremacy, male supremacy, anti-black, anti-gender equality, anti-Semitic, because of religious supremacy. So this thing is a little deeper than just racism. It is anti.
And the Confederates won some significant concessions when the war was over. First concession it won was the right to maintain their dignity. None of them were indicted, all were pardoned, though they tried to overthrow the government. The second concession they won was the right to control—the right to get paid for the slaves they had to give up. The third concession was they got the right to control the votes. We got the vote in the 1870s, didn’t get it back ’til 1965. The right to control the rights of women. They got the right to control healthcare, education and labor and voting. So that the concessions that the Confederates won were substantial.
And to this day, there’s not a—just this state is 45 percent African-American, not one black-owned business in downtown Charleston. So I am not impressed with the "Kumbaya" moment unless there is some plan for financial investment and a budget alteration. If the flag comes down, but you still have less access to voting, it’s not a good deal. If the flag comes down and you still have high race profiling and blacks go to jail at a rate three times that of whites, it’s not a good deal. The question is, are the bankers out here—or will they increase bank lending, and a more effective use of pension funds? What will it be to become cretinous beyond this moment of passion?
AMY GOODMAN: Now, but as people came to Columbia to the state House to see Reverend Pinckney, the state senator laying in state, first African-American since Reconstruction to lay in state in the Capitol rotunda, they had to pass the Confederate flag. Do you think Nikki Haley, the governor, could have just taken it down like the governor of Alabama did?
REV. JESSE JACKSON: I’m not sure she could do that technically. I think she’s taken a very public position, which I think is a very decent position that Nikki Haley has taken. It’s the right position. Now Senator Graham has taken that position, and Senator Scott has taken that position. Romney has taken that position. But we must not only change the Confederate flag. We must change the Confederate agenda. The agenda is anti-black, with white male supremacy. The agenda is anti-Semitic, with religious supremacy. The agenda is anti-female, will not pass the Equal Rights Amendment for women. We must have an agenda.
The Confederates need to rejoin America. They need to rejoin the Union. They must make a bigger decision than take down the flag. They must rejoin the Union of states. Three hundred and fifty thousand people without health insurance in this state, a quarter of the state in poverty, and they reject $10 billion in Medicaid on a nine-to-one ratio? That’s a low investment for high returns. There is so much [inaudible]. This is the same state where the congressman, Wilson, called the president a liar, and where the congressman went home and raised $2 million that weekend, where Susan Smith killed her two babies in the water up in Union, South Carolina. And—
AMY GOODMAN: Where were you born?
REV. JESSE JACKSON: Greenville, South Carolina.
She killed those two babies and said that a black man did it who didn’t even exist. So that we cannot settle for cheap rates when the matter is so serious.
AMY GOODMAN: You’re standing on Calhoun Street right in front of Mother Emanuel.
REV. JESSE JACKSON: Another slaveholder, and it runs right into Meeting Street, where they sold our people. This place is dripping with a kind of indecency, a kind of barbarism. I mean, slavery, 246 years, was real. And the extension of slavery was even worse, in many ways, because at least slavemasters tried to protect the health of their slaves enough for them to work and reproduce. But after slavery, when slavocracy lost to democracy and kept the political and military power, 4,000 blacks were lynched, 163 lynched in this state without one indictment, often carried out by judges and police. And so the depth of resentment and meanness and toxicity here must not be played down.
AMY GOODMAN: Your thoughts on Dylann Roof being in the Charleston jail, as is Officer Michael Slager, who gunned down Walter Scott, the African-American man who was running away from him, and he shot him in the back, in North Charleston?
REV. JESSE JACKSON: One man shot in the back running, another nine more shot in the church across the street, so 10 blacks are dead, two white men in jail. And we do not know what the outcome will be, in a judicial sense. We know the result is in, that these men are dead, and we know who killed them. But the question of what will be done concretely beyond using these two guys as posters to represent the culture. The culture is much deeper and much wider than two men. Much deeper and much wider than two men.
AMY GOODMAN: The Reverend Jesse Jackson, standing in front of Mother Emanuel church as thousands pay their last respects to South Carolina state senator and the Reverend Clementa Pinckney. Today, the funeral for Reverend Pinckney. Thousands are lining up to attend.
Headlines:
Supreme Court Upholds Tax Subsidies in Pivotal Obamacare Case
The Supreme Court has upheld a key provision of the Affordable Care Act, preserving the health insurance coverage of millions of people and handing President Obama a major victory. On Thursday, the court ruled 6 to 3 that Obamacare recipients can obtain tax subsidies for health insurance in states that use federal exchanges. Right-wing plaintiffs had argued the law’s wording excluded some 7.5 million people in 34 states who get their insurance through federal exchanges, after their states declined to run exchanges of their own. But writing for the majority, Chief Justice John Roberts said: "Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them." If the government had lost, millions of people would have been left without the subsidies needed to help buy private insurance. At the White House, President Obama celebrated the ruling.
President Obama: "The Affordable Care Act is here to stay. This morning, the court upheld a critical part of this law, the part that’s made it easier for Americans to afford health insurance regardless of where you live. If the partisan challenge to this law had succeeded, millions of Americans would have had thousands of dollars’ worth of tax credits taken from them. For many, insurance would have become unaffordable again. Many would have become uninsured again. Ultimately, everyone’s premiums could have gone up. America would have gone backwards. And that’s not what we do. That’s not what America does. We move forward. So today is a victory for hard-working Americans all across this country whose lives will continue to become more secure in a changing economy because of this law."
In a dissent from the bench, Justice Antonin Scalia denounced the majority opinion as "absurd," adding: "We really should start calling this law Scotus-care." Meanwhile, outside the Supreme Court, Obamacare recipients who will get to keep their insurance gathered to celebrate.
Gwen Jackson: "We are thankful today that the court upheld this and realized that affordable care is not just for — I don’t know — it’s for everybody, and it should be. It would have impacted over six million people, had they not agreed to this. But now we don’t have to worry about this anymore."
Despite Obamacare’s expansion of healthcare to millions of people, some 35 million Americans remain without insurance under the patchwork U.S. system.
Supreme Court Affirms "Disparate Impact" Lawsuits Under Fair Housing Act
In another decision, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of allowing "disparate impact" discrimination lawsuits under the Fair Housing Act. The decision means housing bias lawsuits can proceed in cases where discrimination wasn’t intentional but ended up being the result. A disparate impact would apply to cases such as setting income standards that would disadvantage a racial group. The American Civil Liberties welcomed the decision, saying: "This ruling recognizes the stark reality that housing discrimination, regardless of intent, persists for many Americans."
Funerals for Church Massacre Victims Begin in South Carolina
Here in South Carolina, the first two funerals for last week’s church massacre victims began Thursday in a series of services that will continue today and over the weekend. Loved ones remembered Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, a 45-year-old mother of three, reverend and high school track coach; and Ethel Lance, a 70-year-old grandmother who had worked at Emanuel AME Church for more than three decades. The funeral for the Emanuel AME’s pastor, the Reverend Clementa Pinckney, also a state senator, will be held today. President Obama will deliver the eulogy.
Arson Damages Black Church in North Carolina
A predominantly black church has been targeted with arson in Charlotte, North Carolina. Part of the Briar Creek Road Baptist Church burned down after it was deliberately torched on Wednesday. Investigators are looking into the blaze as a possible hate crime.
Greece Crisis Talks Extended as Deal Remains Elusive
The standoff between Greece and European creditors continues with a deal still out of reach. Talks have been extended to the weekend, after both sides failed to reach an agreement on Thursday. Creditors want Greece to accept an austerity package in exchange for new loans that would help it avoid a default. Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said he’s confident the impasse can be resolved.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras: "I think that European history is full of disagreements, negotiations and then compromises. So, after the comprehensive Greek proposals, I am confident that we will reach the compromise that will help eurozone and Greece to overcome the crisis."
Kansas Judge Blocks First-of-Its-Kind Anti-Abortion Law
A Kansas judge has blocked a law that made the state the first in the country to ban a common procedure used during second-trimester abortions. Based on model legislation from the anti-choice National Right to Life Committee, the measure banned doctors from using instruments to remove a fetus in pieces. It allowed exceptions only to save a woman’s life or prevent irreversible damage to a major bodily function. On Thursday, a Shawnee County district court judge ruled the measure would unfairly burden women seeking abortions.
Landmark Decision Says Anti-LGBT "Conversion" Group Guilty of Consumer Fraud
And a group behind so-called gay-to-straight conversation therapy has been found guilty of consumer fraud in a landmark ruling. A New Jersey jury says Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing — JONAH — and life coach Alan Downing "engaged in unconscionable commercial practices." The group must now refund former clients thousands of dollars in fees. It’s the first time a U.S. court has ruled on the fraudulence of LGBT "conversion." The Southern Poverty Law Center calls the verdict "a momentous event in the history of the LGBT rights movement."
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South Carolina Gov. Haley Tried to Deny Medicaid Expansion in Challenge Before Supreme Court
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