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Question & Answer
Attila Grunczeisz from Budapest, Hungary, writes:
Question:
I have been following your writings in many years, a regular soul-and-mental nourishment for me. Thank you so much.
The recent years have been a growing suffering for me in Hungary where a hypocritical and corrupt party seized the power with the help of nationalistic slogans. A source of my bitterness is also that many of my fellow citizens support the government because of its religious mask. In fact, the Catholic Church in Hungary entered into an obvious alliance with this ruling party.
So, my question is, what is your perception and/or opinion about the relation between power and religion? I know what is happening in Hungary is not the first time it has happened in history. Obviously you have, during your life, been confronted more than once with power-related reactions while representing your ideas about religion and faith.
My real question actually is, can you assume religion or a religious life without any aspect of power? One could think that faith can be free from the special interest and power-struggling of everyday life – in that it relates to God alone. On the other side, it seems “unnatural,” and in fact for me, impossible to live in two so sharply separated worlds, the spiritual and the secular.
Is there any way to integrate these two aspects? Do you know about any religion that has succeeded in that – or, at least, has become exemplary in the implementation of this integration? I would really appreciate it if you would have some time to answer my letter and I wish you all the best and thank you for your active participation in my life.
Answer:
Dear Attila,
Thank you for your letter. It is, I believe, the first one I have ever received from Budapest. I was in that beautiful city divided by the Danube River about two years ago. It made a deep impression on me. I wish I could have met you on that occasion.
Issues between religion and politics or church and state have existed since the dawn of human history. Indeed, one could argue that religion was born in the service of the state. Even in the Hebrew Scriptures Moses, the political head of state, was served by his brother Aaron, the high priest. The idea of separating church and state was and is a very modern idea. Almost every European national flag has had a cross on it at one time. The myth remains that Constantine won the battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 by accepting as true the vision of the cross in the sky and the admonition “In this sign, conquer.” The Holy Roman Empire sought to unify Europe under one monarch who was subject to the Pope.
The United States was born on the basis of a clear separation between church and state, but most of our state-supported public schools were, in effect, parochial schools in the service of Protestant Christianity. That was why the Roman Catholic Church, then in such a distinct minority, built their system of Catholic parochial schools. That is also why when our Supreme Court ruled that Bible reading and Christian prayer could no longer be practiced in public schools, there was such an outcry from Evangelical Christians. Their “parochial schools” were being removed from their authority. In America we have chaplains in the military, chaplains to the Senate and House of Representatives and various churches form lobbying groups to protect their interests. The Roman Catholic hierarchy has opposed the Health Care law in America in the name of their conviction that all family planning and birth control, which is not natural, is evil. Today in states like Indiana, Arkansas and Louisiana, people debate whether a court-ordered acceptance of gay marriage can be boycotted by various business and religious groups. So, even in the United States, an evolving relationship between church and state is still going on. Ultimately, it will take a thoroughly secular government to do what you would like to see done. That kind of government is developing in parts of the world, but not rapidly.
My fear is that, historically, Christianity in Western civilization has been a force, not for liberty, but for oppression. In 1215 Christian leaders opposed the Magna Carta, the beginning of Western democracy and supported the divine right of kings. Encouraged by religious blessing, slavery was legal in parts of the Western world until the 19th century. The Pope has owned slaves and slavery, not coincidentally, thrived in the United States in that region we know as “The Bible Belt.” The Christian Church was a force that had to be overcome in the movement to liberate women from the stereotypes of the past. The two largest Christian churches in the world, the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox tradition, still insist that women are not created in the image of God and therefore cannot represent God as priests serving at the altar. The Christian Church in both its Roman Catholic and Evangelical or Protestant sides has been a mighty force opposing justice and full inclusion for gay and lesbian people. Ecclesiastical structures sponsored the wars we call today the Crusades that served to put bitterness into the relationship between Christians and Muslims to this day.
Jesus seems to have understood the distinction you hope to see when he was quoted as saying, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.” The difficulty is that many of the things we value are on both sides of that equation.
I am deeply, fully and passionately committed to the separation of church and state. I do not want my nation to tell me how I must worship and I do not want my government to become a theocracy. As long as we are human, however, there will be a conflict between church and state raging within us.
I think every person must be free to live their religious lives without interference from the state. They must, however, also oppose any effort on the part of any religious group to impose its values on all of the people living in a secular society. History reveals that this is a difficult thing for religious people to understand. The situation you describe in Hungary will not last forever. History is moving in your direction, not theirs. It is moving, however, very, very slowly.
I hope we meet someday.
John Shelby Spong
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Tacoma, Washington 98402 · United States
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