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The White House says it is re-evaluating its policy toward Israel following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s rejection of a two-state solution. Administration officials have openly criticized Netanyahu for vowing no Palestinian state during his tenure and warning supporters about a high turnout of Arab voters. Netanyahu has tried to walk back his comments, but U.S. officials have suggested they might take steps including no longer vetoing U.N. Security Council resolutions critical of Israel. The dispute over Netanyahu’s comments comes amidst existing tensions over his effort to derail nuclear talks with Iran. According to The Wall Street Journal, Netanyahu’s obstructionism now includes Israeli spying on the U.S.-Iran talks and then turning over sensitive information to Republican members of Congress. Despite the frayed ties and talk of punitive U.S. action, whether the White House is prepared to end longstanding U.S. support for the occupation is the question that lies ahead. Administration officials have already vowed the billions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Israel will continue unimpeded. We are joined by three guests: Lisa Goldman, a contributing editor at +972 Magazine and a fellow at the New America Foundation; Dr. Hatim Kanaaneh, a physician, author and Palestinian citizen of Israel; Yousef Munayyer, executive director of U.S. Campaign to End Israeli Occupation.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AARON MATÉ: A new report accuses Israel of spying on nuclear talks between Iran, the U.S. and other world powers. According to The Wall Street Journal, Israel fed the obtained intelligence to congressional Republicans as part of its effort to block a nuclear deal. The news comes as the White House is already reassessing its policy toward Israel following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s rejection of a two-state solution. In recent days, administration officials, from President Obama on down, have openly criticized Netanyahu for vowing no Palestinian state and warning supporters about a high turnout of Arab voters. The comments helped Netanyahu win re-election last week, but they’ve also worsened U.S.-Israeli ties already threatened by the standoff over talks with Iran.
On Monday, White House Chief of Staff Dennis McDonough became the latest administration official to criticize Netanyahu’s comments. Speaking to the group J Street, McDonough said the U.S. cannot ignore Netanyahu’s disavowal of a two-state solution.
CHIEF OF STAFF DENIS McDONOUGH: After the election, the prime minister said that he had not changed his position. But for many in Israel and in the international community, such contradictory comments call into question his commitment to a two-state solution, as did his suggestion that the construction of settlements has a strategic purpose of dividing Palestinian community, and his claim that conditions in the larger Middle East must be more stable before a Palestinian state can be established. We cannot simply pretend that these comments were never made.
AARON MATÉ: Denis McDonough went on to say Israel’s nearly 50-year occupation of Palestinians must end. But whether the White House is prepared to drop longstanding U.S. support for the occupation is the question that lies ahead. The Obama administration has said it’s now considering not blocking, or maybe even backing, a U.N. Security Council resolution that would call for a two-state solution based on an Israeli withdrawal from the Occupied Territories.
AMY GOODMAN: That would be a major change. The Obama administration has previously vetoed U.N. Security Council resolutions advancing Palestinian statehood and criticizing Israeli settlement activity, even when those measures affirm official U.S. policy.
Amidst U.S. criticism and talk of a new approach, Netanyahu has tried to walk back his comments. Just three days after vowing no Palestinian state on the eve of the vote, Netanyahu backtracked in an interview with MSNBC. Then, on Monday, Netanyahu expressed regret for his comments about Arab voters.
PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] I know that the things I said a few days ago offended Israel’s Arabs. I had no intention for this to happen. I regret this. My actions as prime minister, including the great investments in the minority sectors, prove the total opposite. Equally, I think it’s forbidden that any foreign body will intervene in the processes of our democracy.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Despite talk that his comments could trigger a change in U.S. policy, there are other signs the status quo will prevail. White House officials have vowed the billions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Israel will continue unimpeded. And so far there’s been no change in policy at the U.N. On Monday, the U.S. joined Israel in boycotting a U.N. Human Rights Council session on alleged violations during last year’s assault on Gaza.
For more, we’re joined by three guests. Lisa Goldman is with us, contributing editor at +972 Magazine and a fellow at the New America Foundation. Dr. Hatim Kanaaneh is a physician, a Palestinian citizen of Israel, and the author of the recently released short story collection, Chief Complaint: A Country Doctor’s Tales of Life in Galilee. And Yousef Munayyer joins us. He’s executive director of the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation. He recently wrote an opinion piece in The New York Times headlined "Netanyahu’s Win is Good for Palestine."
Yousef, let’s begin with you. Why?
YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Well, I think it’s very good precisely because of what we’ve seen transpiring in the last several days. Look, the mask has fallen off of the face of Benjamin Netanyahu. He has, for many years, pretended to play along with the rhetoric of the peace process, while acting in a way that is very much opposed to that outcome. But now, because of the statement that he’s made and because of the mandate that he’s gotten from a Israeli electorate, it’s very clear that the process of the past, no one can pretend that that can still go on. So we need to have a significant period of reassessment in policy now. And, you know, the United States and its allies around the world, which have been talking about this peace process for a two-state framework, have just been served a very significant reality check. And they have to be honest with themselves, and they have to be honest with everybody else in the international community who seeks a just outcome here, and re-evaluate their position on this, because it’s clear that the peace process has really not brought Palestinians closer to statehood, it’s only brought them further away, because it’s served as a cover for continued Israeli settlement expansion. So, what’s good about this election is that, as I said, the mask has fallen, and we cannot pretend anymore. It’s time to take a seriously different position on these issues.
AARON MATÉ: Yousef, what do you make of the proposed steps that the administration has suggested it might take in response to Netanyahu—no longer standing in the way of its own policy at the U.N., so not blocking a measure that might condemn the illegal settlements, or possibly even advancing a resolution that affirms a Palestinian state based on an Israeli withdrawal from the territories, also potentially not blocking a Palestinian attempt at the International Criminal Court? Is that significant, and do you actually think any of it will happen?
YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Well, you know, in the introduction to this section, you mentioned the comments made yesterday at a gala by an Obama administration official saying that the occupation that has lasted for 50 years must end. The reality is, the United States had that position on November 22nd of 1967, when they voted in support of U.N. Security Council Resolution 242. At that point, the occupation had only been around for six months. So, you know, when we hear things like that, and we hear about the prospect of perhaps the United States changing their voting behavior at the United Nations, that’s great to see, but it really has to translate into action, not just in terms of abstentions, even though that would be a good thing, but we also need to see the United States addressing its complicity in the Israeli occupation, ending U.S. military aid to Israel, ending support for the settlements through all sorts of exemptions on taxes that U.S. taxpayers are taking advantage of to funnel money into settlements, enforcing laws on the books in the United States that would make military units within the Israeli military ineligible for any sort of aid from the United States or training precisely because they have engaged in the human rights abuses and violations of international law that are featured in this military occupation. So there’s a lot of steps that the United States can take to actually put its actions in line with its words and its stated goals. But I think that, you know, until we see those changes really happen, I’m not going to believe that the United States is actually committed to a different outcome than the outcome that it has brought into the situation through its support for Israel.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Hatim Kanaaneh, you are here in the United States, so you weren’t able to vote in the Israeli elections.
DR. HATIM KANAANEH: That’s true.
AMY GOODMAN: You were not one of those Israeli Arabs who went out in, quote, "droves" that Prime Minister Netanyahu warned his supporters about to—he said, to get them out to vote. Can you talk about Netanyahu’s election? You live in Galilee.
DR. HATIM KANAANEH: Yes, I’m a citizen of Israel since day one. And our community, actually, for the first time, the various factions that ran for the Knesset, usually, and spent their force by arguing internally—for the first time, they were able to constitute a single list and to address some—
AMY GOODMAN: That was the Joint List that came in third in the elections.
DR. HATIM KANAANEH: That’s the Joint List that came in as the third largest party in Israel. And they were able to address some of the more relevant community issues vis-à-vis the central authority of the state. And with that, I mean, for me, that does give me some hope in the future, because, in fact, in the last week, the leader of that list, Ayman Odeh, became for a little while sort of the sweetheart of the media in Israel. And so, there is potential for us to place sometime in the future, despite the fact that so far no prime minister in Israel ever negotiated with the Palestinian political parties to form a coalition. So there is some hope, from my point of view, despite the rightward shift in the result of the elections.
AARON MATÉ: Lisa Goldman of the New America Foundation, do you also take some hope from the results of the election?
LISA GOLDMAN: In a way, yes, I do. I agree with Dr. Kanaaneh that the really good showing of the Joint List, which got 13 seats, making it the third largest party in the Knesset, is a very interesting development. A couple of my Arab friends said to me that Ayman Odeh is the most inspiring leader in the Middle East, and he’s an Israeli citizen, or the most inspiring Arab leader. He’s a very mature guy. In a couple of—in one particular television debate, he was confronted with members of Knesset or party leaders who are just—you know, made nakedly racist, Jim Crow-like remarks to him. And he just responded with very inclusive, bridge-building, intelligent, sort of charismatic statements that really caught the attention and the imagination of the Jewish population.
AMY GOODMAN: Denis McDonough, the chief of staff of President Obama, his comments, calling Netanyahu’s comments very troubling—
LISA GOLDMAN: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: —were made at the J Street conference. You were there.
LISA GOLDMAN: Yes, I was there.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what J Street is? And your being there, what are the debates that are going on there?
LISA GOLDMAN: So, actually, J Street this year was very, very interesting, for a couple of reasons. I think the main reason was, one of my friends, actually, an Arab friend of mine who was there, said it sounds like the liberal Zionists are sitting shiva for their ideology. I wouldn’t go quite that far; he was joking, of course. But there was a sense, like J Street is an organization—it’s an NGO. It’s a liberal Jewish NGO—well, not just Jewish, but their slogan is pro-Israel and pro-peace, and they advocate for a two-state solution. They sort of are—by many, are regarded as a liberal-left version of AIPAC. And they’ve had some interesting successes. I think that they’re—you know, they’re a very interesting organization in the sense that they try very hard to bring disparate voices under a single umbrella to talk about alternative solutions.
But there are a lot of people who were at J Street who said, "Look, you know, with all due respect, the two-state solution is a wonderful idea, but it’s a bit late." And I’m actually one of those people. And I don’t advocate ideologically one state. I don’t think it’s, you know, going to be the best outcome, just for pragmatic reasons. But I just think that at this point, talking about a two-state solution, negotiating it—you know, we’re 20 years after the Oslo agreement, we have 500,000 Jewish settlers—I think it’s just a bit too late.
AARON MATÉ: That’s a point many people make, but it’s one that I don’t get. The two-state solution is what the law is. And Oslo was designed, from the beginning, to destroy the two-state solution. Israel never intended to give Palestinian statehood, and they intended to increase their control over the parts of the West Bank that they wanted—the settlements and the key water reserves. So why declare Palestinian statehood dead just because of the illegality of an expanding occupation?
LISA GOLDMAN: Well, I mean, that’s an interpretation, right? But no one’s actually said Oslo—nobody who was involved in negotiating the Oslo agreement said, "Actually, we were just joking. The point was to take over the Palestinian resources."
AARON MATÉ: Israeli leaders were explicit on this point. Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin, who founded the peace process, he was opposed to a Palestinian state. Shlomo Ben-Ami, who’s been on our show, the former foreign minister, was explicit that it was founded on a neocolonialist basis. That’s a quote from him. So I—anyway, yeah, your response?
LISA GOLDMAN: I mean, it’s—I think it’s a subject for debate. It’s not one that I personally like to engage in. I tend to look more at the reality. And I think that Oslo has been an absolute disaster for the Palestinians. I absolutely agree with that. But officially, on the face of it, that’s not the way it was originally presented. It was presented as a means of negotiating two states for two peoples. That was the official line.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go back to the J Street conference in Washington. On Monday, the Israeli writer, Noam Sheizaf, a co-founder of the online magazine +972, criticized J Street and the Obama administration for backing Israel’s most recent assault on Gaza, and said that should be discussed.
NOAM SHEIZAF: The one word that wasn’t mentioned in here was Gaza. And the problem is Gaza. And what the Israeli public chose is another Gaza. And I think people should understand that. And I think stepping out of the comfort zone is not talking about Netanyahu. I think attacking Netanyahu is easy for everyone on this panel and for everyone in this room. I think that we should discuss the position we took about Gaza, the position Labor took, the position this organization took. And I feel from the responses they get that the public is ready, our public is ready for this debate. America has opened its bunkers for Israel when Israel ran out of shells in the middle of the war. And I think this is what we need to be discussing in this room. And to be honest, in this day, I didn’t hear a lot of talk about that.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the Israeli writer Noam Sheizaf addressing J Street, criticizing J Street. Yousef Munayyer, your response?
YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Oh, I think his criticism is very warranted, and I think he’s on point. And I think it’s important that he made that criticism, and it was heartening to hear that he got the applause that he did in the face of that criticism at that convention.
Look, I think the big problem with J Street is that it advocates for an outcome, but does not advocate for any concrete steps towards actually realizing that outcome. You know, you cannot say you support a two-state solution and the emergence of a Palestinian state, and also fail to advocate for any changes in policy that would bring that about. And what we’ve seen from J Street is advocacy for continued negotiations, which have only acted as a cover for the very settlement expansion that they deplore. So, because of the sort of the precarious position that they’re in, in trying to be both pro-Israel and pro-peace, even though the Israeli state has its entrenched interests focused on maintaining the occupation, put it in such a place so that it can’t effectively do what it says it wants to do. And so it’s become something of a transitory state for people who are overcoming their previous affinity with the state of Israel and Zionism as they progress along a spectrum that is increasingly critical. And to the extent that it plays that role as a transitory step, I think it’s fine. Beyond that, though, I don’t think it’s doing much of anything effective.
AARON MATÉ: And, Yousef, we have 30 seconds. You’re the director of the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation. At this moment when U.S.-Israeli ties are so low, what happens next for activism here in the U.S.?
YOUSEF MUNAYYER: I think there’s really only one answer to that question. And that is, in every way possible, the costs of occupation to the Israeli state have to increase. For many years they have decreased, and it’s become very easy for Israel to consider a future where perpetual occupation—
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to have to leave it there, Yousef. We thank you so much for being with us, Yousef Munayyer, Dr. Hatim Kanaaneh and Lisa Goldman.
A new report finds Shiite militias in Iraq have burned down entire Sunni villages after liberating them from control of the Islamic State. This comes as Iraqi forces and Iranian-backed Shiite militias are in their fourth week of a fight to retake Tikrit from ISIS militants. We air a Human Rights Watch video report from the Iraqi town of Amerli and speak to Erin Evers, Iraq researcher for HRW, who co-wrote the group’s new report, "After Liberation Came Destruction: Iraqi Militias and the Aftermath of Amerli."
Image Credit: Human Rights Watch
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AARON MATÉ: We turn now to Iraq, where the battle for Tikrit has entered its fourth week. Iraqi forces and Iranian-backed Shiite militias have fought the Islamic State since early March, trying to retake Saddam Hussein’s hometown. The Iraqi government is expected to soon request U.S. assistance in the form of airstrikes. If the U.S. accepts, it would mark the biggest collaboration to date between Shiite militias and the U.S. in the fight against the Islamic State.
AMY GOODMAN: This comes at a time when Shiite militias are being accused of carrying out widespread sectarian abuses targeting Sunni civilians. Last week, Human Rights Watch published a report titled "After Liberation Came Destruction: Iraqi Militias and the Aftermath of Amerli." In a moment, we’ll be joined by the report’s co-author, but first we want to bring you this short piece produced by Human Rights Watch.
NARRATOR: Witnesses say that pro-government militias, volunteer fighters and Iraqi security forces carried out a campaign of destruction in the aftermath of operations to drive the extremist group ISIS away from the town of Amerli in Iraq.
IRAQI WOMAN: [translated] At first, we were afraid of ISIS. When ISIS came, we didn’t escape. They were all around us, so where could we go? Then we were hit by heavy airstrikes. Everyone stayed in their homes. Then the militia came and started firing at us. When they attacked us, we fled to the mountains.
NARRATOR: Last June, ISIS laid siege the mostly Shia town of Amerli for nearly three months. Thousands of people were trapped until U.S.-backed Iraqi forces drove ISIS fighters out with airstrikes and ground operations by an alliance of Shia militias and Iraqi and Kurdish government forces. Witnesses told us that on September 1st, the day after the siege was broken, Shia militias returned to the Sunni villages around Amerli and began looting, burning and destroying homes and businesses.
IRAQI MAN 1: [translated] From what I saw, they used fire [to burn houses], but we also heard explosions. We thought it was bombs that ISIS had left behind, but about 10 days ago, when we snuck back in, we saw that houses had been blow up with explosives. The walls were gone, and the ceilings were collapsing.
PESHMERGA OFFICER: Amerli, behind the electric poles.
TIRANA HASSAN: Amerli is just behind these electric—how many kilometers?
NARRATOR: In mid-October, we visited some of the villages on the outskirts of Amerli. Our escorts were Kurdish military forces known as peshmerga.
PESHMERGA OFFICER: [translated] The Shia militias destroyed all of these shops. This restaurant used to be owned by a Kurd. That one belonged to a Sunni Arab. They came to the area after the airstrikes. The houses and shops were untouched during the airstrikes, but when the militias came, they were destroyed. When we came back, we saw militia flags with the words "Ya Hussein" and "Ya Ali."
NARRATOR: As we headed towards the village of Yengija, we saw the yellow flags of the pro-government militia, Saraya al-Khorasani. They still controlled the area at the time of our field investigation in mid-October. Once inside the village, we saw homes still burning. It was nearly seven weeks after the siege of Amerli was broken. Other homes and buildings showed signs of arson. Black soot marked the windows and doors where flames had engulfed the interior and charred the outer walls. On many of the houses, militias spray-painted sectarian slogans and the names of their group. We analyzed satellite imagery recorded over Yengija and found evidence of a systematic and sustained campaign of arson and demolition that lasted over two months after the end of the siege of Amerli. We also analyzed a 500-kilometer square radius of Amerli, which confirmed destruction in 30 out of 35 villages. Most of the damage was caused by arson and intentional demolition inflicted after ISIS had fled the area.
IRAQI MAN 2: [translated] Those 20 families, living over there, all fled Suleiman Bek when the militia came.
NARRATOR: Iraq clearly faces serious threats in its conflict with ISIS. But the abuses committed by the forces fighting ISIS are threatening the country in the long term. Iraqis are caught between the horrors ISIS commits and the abuses by militias, and civilians are paying the price.
AMY GOODMAN: That video produced by Human Rights Watch. When we come back, we’ll be joined by Erin Evers, Iraq researcher for Human Rights Watch. She co-wrote the new report, "After Liberation Came Destruction: Iraqi Militias and the Aftermath of Amerli." She has been on the ground in Iraq with Human Rights Watch since September 2012. We’ll also speak with journalist Matthieu Aikins. His latest piece for Rolling Stone is headlined "Inside Baghdad’s Brutal Battle Against ISIS." This is Democracy Now! We’ll be back in a minute.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammed Saleh, here on Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Aaron Maté.
AARON MATÉ: So, Erin, thank you for joining us. As we talk about your report on the rise of militias in Iraq, we’re joined by Erin Evers, Iraq researcher for Human Rights Watch. She co-wrote the new report, "After Liberation Came Destruction: Iraqi Militias and the Aftermath of Amerli," on the ground in Iraq with HRW since September 2012. Also joined by Matt Aikins, award-winning foreign correspondent. His latest piece for Rolling Stone is "Inside Baghdad’s Brutal Battle Against ISIS." He joins us by video stream from Karachi, Pakistan.
Erin Evers, thank you for joining us, as I said. Talk about what you found in Iraq.
ERIN EVERS: Well, we essentially documented that after U.S. coalition strikes in the town of Amerli, in Salahuddin province, routed ISIS from the town of Amerli, along with—along with militias and security forces fighting on the ground—
AMY GOODMAN: And describe where Amerli is.
ERIN EVERS: Amerli is in Salahuddin, which is north of Baghdad. It’s the same province that Tikrit is in. And the town itself is kind of the northeast of the province. So, ISIS had been laying siege to this town for two months. The ground forces alone were unable to route ISIS from the town, but then, after the U.S. airstrikes on August 31st, they cleared ISIS from the town, then proceeded to spread out throughout Salahuddin province and neighboring Kirkuk province, and attacked the Sunni villages in those provinces. So they essentially laid siege to all of the Sunni villages in a pretty broad area, set homes on fire, looted them, in some cases destroyed them with explosives and earth-moving equipment.
We used satellite imagery. We were on the ground, obviously, and saw some of the destruction with our own eyes, spoke to about 30 persons who were displaced as a result of—as a result of this clearing operation. And then we used satellite imagery in order to determine that the damage that we saw was in fact caused by militias and not in the course of fighting or by ISIS. So we had determined the timeline, essentially, of when what we saw happened, so that we could be clear that those areas were under the control of militias and not under the control of ISIS or not, you know—not engaging in battle at the time.
AMY GOODMAN: Why are the militias doing this? And what is their relationship to the Iraqi army?
ERIN EVERS: So, the militias are not under any formal chain of command. They are leading the fight against ISIS, and they are responsible, essentially, to themselves.
Why they’re doing this, I think, is really anybody’s guess. But from statements that—you know, statements that we’ve heard from militia leaders and from what people on the ground have told us that militia—you know, militia fighters were saying to them when they were on the ground, it seems like they were essentially trying to clear the area of Sunnis.
And after this campaign, several months afterwards, in January, the same militias went through Diyala province, which is a province neighboring Iran, and essentially carried out the same kinds of operations, except at an even more extreme kind of level. So, whereas in this report we documented militias kidnapping people and torturing people, in Diyala we documented the same militias carrying out summary executions of Sunni civilians and even a large massacre of 72 civilians in one town in Diyala in the course of their fighting.
AARON MATÉ: Is there any evidence they’ve been doing this with U.S. weapons?
ERIN EVERS: We’ve seen them with U.S. weapons. We don’t know exactly how they’ve gotten their hands on these weapons, you know, so there’s a lot of speculation as to how they’re getting the weapons. Some people say that they’re getting them through the Iraqi army, which is the official recipient of the weapons. And other people—you know, other people are saying that they’re getting them from ISIS, which obviously is also getting the weapons in the course of their fight on the ground.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to read to you a quote from the former CIA director, David Petraeus, former—he’s also a general. He told The Washington Post, quote, "I would argue that the foremost threat to Iraq’s long-term stability and the broader regional equilibrium is not the Islamic State; rather, it is Shiite militias, many backed by—and some guided by—Iran," Petraeus said. He went on to say, quote, "Longer term, Iranian-backed Shia militia could emerge as the preeminent power in the country, one that is outside the control of the government and instead answerable to Tehran." Your response to this, Erin?
ERIN EVERS: I think, unfortunately, that that’s a correct evaluation of where Iraq is headed. So even though, you know, in Iraq right now we have a new government with a reformist prime minister, and his allies are also, you know, definitely keen to rein in these militias, to undo some of the kind of very abusive legislation and practices that the former prime minister put in place, unfortunately, the power on the ground that is the strongest right now is the militias, and they are not answerable to the government. There is no accountability for any of the abuses that we’ve documented on the part of militias. And this is going back even before—you know, even before Mosul fell, the militias were gaining power within the security forces. Once Mosul fell, that relationship flipped, and the militias became the leading force on the ground, and the security forces are kind of following behind.
AARON MATÉ: On the issue of U.S. weapons, there are arms control laws. What has been the White House response about these atrocities potentially enabled with U.S. weaponry?
ERIN EVERS: The White House has not specifically addressed the issue of militias getting their hands on U.S. weaponry. But they have, in recent weeks, kind of ratcheted up their language. They’re voicing concern about militia abuses, about the possibility of militias being sectarian—which obviously is a foregone conclusion. So, I think that it’s something that the U.S. is seriously considering. But they haven’t—they haven’t publicly addressed specifically the issue of militias getting their hands on weapons.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about the Iraqi security forces. A report by ABC News revealed U.S.-trained and -armed Iraqi military units are under investigation for committing war crimes. This is an except of ABC’s report by Brian Ross.
BRIAN ROSS: Innocent civilians massacred, prisoners tortured, acts that shock the civilized world—all discovered by ABC News online, not from the usual ISIS accounts, but on social media sites connected to elite units of the Iraqi army, the very forces the U.S. is counting on to help stop such atrocities.
Here, a group of men in Iraqi army uniforms give a sign of approval after a civilian is beheaded behind them. In this video, a young boy, a suspected ISIS recruit, is about to be executed, shot dead in the street with men in what appear to be Iraqi uniforms crowding around the scene. This appears to be an insignia of the Iraqi special forces. There are dozens of such videos and still images now being investigated by U.S. and Iraqi authorities to determine if they are in fact part of the Iraqi army, like these men with a severed head or these men dragging the body of a captured prisoner. In this video, what appears to be two unarmed Iraqi civilians are about to be murdered, like the others already dead next to them. This video, slowed down, shows militia fighters with U.S.-supplied weapons.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s an excerpt of an ABC report by Brian Ross. Erin Evers, you reviewed all of this footage for them?
ERIN EVERS: Yes, I did. You know, the sad thing about all this footage is that it’s essentially visual documentation of abuses that we, other organizations and the media have been documenting for years on the part of Iraqi security forces, and that successive U.S. and Iraqi governments have turned a blind eye to. So, the kinds of abuses that we saw in that report, these atrocious—you know, absolutely atrocious acts of no accountability whatsoever, is something that the U.S. government has known about for a long time and just failed to do anything about.
AMY GOODMAN: What’s their response to you, Human Rights Watch?
ERIN EVERS: You know, their response to the report was that they have actually withheld aid from specific groups who they knew were committing these abuses before. That’s the first time that I ever heard about the U.S. actually withholding aid from abusive groups. That’s, of course, their obligation under the Leahy Law, which prohibits the U.S. from providing weapons to human rights-abusing forces. But they have never responded directly to us in terms of the allegations, you know, the kind of documentation that we’ve done of these kinds of abuses by Iraqi security forces.
"If you visited the Interior Ministry compound in Baghdad during the holy month of Muharram this past fall, you would be forgiven for thinking that Iraq, like its neighbor Iran, is a country whose official religion is Shiite Islam," writes journalist Matthieu Aikins in his latest Rolling Stone article, "Inside Baghdad’s Brutal Battle Against ISIS." We speak to Aikins about the rise of militias in Iraq and its return to the sectarian warfare that ravaged the country in the years after the 2003 U.S. invasion. Aikins, who has reported extensively from Afghanistan, also discusses Afghan President Ashraf Ghani’s visit to the White House. We also hear from Erin Evers, Iraq researcher for Human Rights Watch.
Image Credit: Human Rights Watch
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AARON MATÉ: Matt Aikins with Rolling Stone, your piece is called "Inside Baghdad’s Brutal Battle Against ISIS." You were there speaking to Iraqi officials and militia leaders. Can you tell us about what you found? And talk about the broader Iraqi policy of deploying militias and how it’s arose, particularly with the collapse of the Iraqi army when ISIS overran large parts of the country last year.
MATTHIEU AIKINS: Sure. Well, what, you know, happened was essentially a reaction to the rapid gains that ISIS made this summer. When the defense of Mosul and other areas collapsed, these militias were called upon as a kind of last line of defense in order to protect the sort of Shia areas of the southern part of the country, including Iraq. And they were effective at doing that. But in doing so, as we’ve already discussed, they took over this preeminent position within the Iraqi state.
So, when I was there, I met with militia commanders, including one from a very notorious militia called Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq. It’s a splinter group from the Mahdi Army that once fought the Americans and is now fighting ISIS. And the commander explained to me something that I’ve heard from other places, as well, that on the ground, these militia commanders are often leading the operations, and they’re essentially mixed in with Iraqi army and police units, borrowing weapons, being supplied by ammunition from them, using heavy weapons, and often exercising command and control over Iraqi police and army. And what that says is that the two of—you know, the formal state security services, what’s left with them, and these militias have become entangled to such a degree that it’s hard in many cases to make a meaningful distinction between them on the ground.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re speaking to Matt Aikins in Karachi, Pakistan, right now. I don’t know if that’s a crow behind you or something, Matt. But you begin your piece by saying, "If you visited the Interior Ministry compound in Baghdad during the holy month of Muharram this past fall, you would be forgiven for thinking that Iraq, like its neighbor Iran, is a country whose official religion is Shiite Islam." Explain.
MATTHIEU AIKINS: Well, the thing is that you would be just confronted with these religious symbols that make, you know, no pretense that Iraq is a state that is supposed to have equal regard for the different sects and religions that compose it. Baghdad is now a Shia city. And so, I think one of the things we’ve seen after the events this summer is that mask has really come off. As Erin pointed out, a lot of these things were happening before. And a lot of them were predicted. What happened in Amerli and in Diyala was essentially predicted by Human Rights Watch and other groups that were investigating it, that there would be what amounts to ethnic cleansing, in my view. But the mask has sort of slipped off now, and there’s really no pretense or attempt at pretense that this is not a sectarian war that’s being fought by the preeminent actors on both sides, ISIS and the militias.
AARON MATÉ: So, Matt, given this dynamic, what do you think this portends for Iraq’s future? Could we see a return to the brutal days of 2006, 2007, when the sectarian conflict was out of control and tens of thousands of killed? Is there a fear of sliding back into that?
MATTHIEU AIKINS: I mean, I think we already are—we already are there, in many ways. You know, last year, there was an estimated 17,000 Iraqis that were killed. That’s the most violent year by far since the peak of the violence, 2006, 2007. In some cases, it’s one-sided, in areas of Baghdad that I visited. These were Sunni areas that had been taken over by al-Qaeda in 2006 and '07, often because the communities wanted some sort of defense against the Shia militias. Now they're being terrorized by Shia groups. There’s absolute, you know, outright warfare in the countryside, massacres on both sides. So I think we’re actually there. With the shift toward offensive operations of the parties’ militias, especially with large areas like Mosul and Fallujah, I mean, they’re going to make what’s been happening in Amerli and Diyala look minor in comparison to the scale of massacres and human rights abuses that are likely to occur.
AMY GOODMAN: Matt, here in the United States, where you just were, you have the Republicans attacking President Obama for negotiating with Iran around a nuclear bomb, and you have, of course, the call to defeat the so-called Islamic State, ISIS. But here you have, on the ground, it’s Iran that is fighting ISIS. How much coordination is going on between the United States and Iran now in trying to defeat ISIS?
MATTHIEU AIKINS: Well, they’re often sharing the same space. One Iraqi adviser told me it was like hide and seek. You know, the Iranians would show up when the Americans weren’t there, and the Americans would show up when the Iranians weren’t there. This is in the sort of ministries and main bases. The Iranians are the only ones present in the field, really, so far.
I think you have to acknowledge that Iran has legitimate interests in Iraq. I mean, this is their doorstep. ISIS is a brutal anti-Shia group that poses a grave threat to their own interests. And the fact that we have this longstanding proxy war with Iran has really prevented any sort of constructive engagement on solving the problems that are going on in Iraq, and instead you have a kind of willful denial about the actual common strategy that is currently taking place.
AARON MATÉ: And, Erin Evers, looking forward also, how do you think these abuses will impact the long-term fight against ISIS and also Iraq’s basic unity?
ERIN EVERS: I think, you know, what we’re seeing right now already, actually, is that these kinds of abuses are really radicalizing and ostracizing the Sunni population even more than they already were. So, people that we talked to on the ground who were displaced by the fighting, who were displaced by militias who threatened them with death if they tried to come back to their homes, are essentially now—you’ve got thousands of people displaced as a result of these militia operations who are literally geographically stuck between ISIS on one side, whose ideology they don’t accept and who they don’t want to be a part of, but who do not have a sectarian mandate to kill them and who haven’t specifically threatened to kill them like the sectarian militias have. And so, our concern is that for every tactical gain that the Shia militias are making against ISIS, in the long run they’re actually empowering ISIS and emboldening ISIS and throwing people straight into their hands.
So, the way that I see things going, from my experience on the ground, from what we documented in Amerli and Diyala and other areas all around Iraq, is that if things keep going this way and that if militias keep leading the fight, essentially, you’re going to have a state that is a militia state with a large, you know, kind of swath of territory that militias control, Sunnis kind of hiding in the western corner, and ISIS a problem that is never really fully dealt with, because—you know, because a sectarian—there’s no sectarian solution to the ISIS problem. You can’t get rid of all of the Sunnis in Iraq. They are part of Iraq. And, you know, most kind of average Iraqis don’t want to see the country split up. So, I think that it’s—I think that it poses a huge problem, both politically and in terms of security for Iraq’s future.
AMY GOODMAN: Erin, you have said that the U.S. military didn’t give some weapons to some groups—at least they said that to you. Matt, you write in your piece, "the Obama administration has also argued that its program to supply weapons to the Iraqi government should be eligible for an exemption from arms-control laws."
MATTHIEU AIKINS: That’s right. I mean, obviously they’re worried about the weapons they’re now transferring to Iraq, in a sort of rushed emergency program, being put into the wrong hands, so they’d like to exempt themselves from those legal obligations. I think it’s ironic that, you know, having flooded the country once with weapons by destroying and disbanding Saddam Hussein’s army and then flooding it again with weapons by arming this hastily prepared army and police in response to the insurgency, which is weapons that have now fallen in the hands of ISIS. This, the third solution, is to, again, flood more weapons into the country.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally—
MATTHIEU AIKINS: And I think it just shows the lack of imagination that exists on the part of the policymakers who are responsible for dealing with these problems.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Matt, President Obama is meeting with the new Afghan president, Ghani, today in Washington. You’ve lived in Afghanistan for years. The significance for this meeting—the significance of this meeting, and what President Ghani will be calling for?
MATTHIEU AIKINS: President Ghani is going to be calling for more troops and more money. He understands that the Afghan state is utterly dependent on international funding. The budget gap is extraordinary. It’s something like 20 percent of the country’s GDP right now that’s being spent by the international community on the armed forces alone. So, basically, Afghanistan is going to remain a client state of the United States and the international community for a long time to come, especially if the conflict isn’t brought to some sort of negotiated solution. And Ghani is basically trying to undo the damage that President Karzai did to that relationship, that really threatened a total cutoff of, if not aid, but troops.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we want to thank you both for being with us. Matthieu Aikins, joining us from Karachi, Pakistan, the George Polk Award-winning foreign correspondent, his latest piece for Rolling Stone we’ll link to. It’s headlined "Inside Baghdad’s Brutal Battle Against ISIS." And thanks so much to Erin Evers, a Iraq researcher for Human Rights Watch. She co-wrote the new report, "After Liberation Came Destruction: Iraqi Militias and the Aftermath of Amerli." She’s been on the ground in Iraq with Human Rights Watch since September of 2012. And we’ll link to that report, as well.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we look at the issue of Iran, Israel and Palestine. Stay with us.
Report: Israel Spied on Iran Talks, Shared Info with U.S. Lawmakers
A new report accuses Israel of spying on nuclear talks between Iran, the United States and other world powers. According to The Wall Street Journal, the White House learned of the spying last year shortly after the negotiations opened. Citing unnamed U.S. officials, the Journal said the White House was not upset by the spying as much as it was by Israel’s decision to share inside information from the talks with U.S. lawmakers, as part of a campaign to derail the talks. Israel has denied the allegations, which come as the Obama administration is already criticizing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for his pre-election vow to block a Palestinian state. On Monday, White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to the two-state solution.
Denis McDonough: "In the end, we know what a peace agreement should look like. The borders of Israel and an independent Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps. Each state needs secure and recognized borders, and there must be robust provisions that safeguard Israel’s security. An occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end."
Netanyahu has tried to walk back his disavowal of the two-state solution. On Monday, he also sought to walk back his election day warning Arab voters were flocking to the polls "in droves."
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: "I know that the things I said a few days ago offended Israel’s Arabs. I had no intention for this to happen. I regret this. My actions as prime minister, including the great investments in the minority sectors, prove the total opposite. Equally, I think it’s forbidden that any foreign body will intervene in the processes of our democracy."
Afghan President to Request Longer Stay for U.S. Troops
Afghan President Ashraf Ghani is expected to request a longer tenure for U.S. troops in Afghanistan during a White House meeting with President Obama today. Obama has vowed to remove half of the 10,000 troops currently in Afghanistan in the coming months, and all but 1,000 by the end of his term in early 2017. But recent reports say the administration is poised to reverse that pledge. The United States is also pledging to continue funding Afghan security forces at a peak level of 352,000 personnel, at a cost of billions of dollars per year. The talks come as gunmen in eastern Afghanistan attacked vehicles on a highway, killing 13 people, and as protests have erupted over the mob killing of a woman in the capital Kabul.
Talks on Yemen’s Political Crisis to Be Held in Qatar
The United Nations says it will broker talks in Qatar aimed at preventing Yemen from dissolving into a full-scale civil war. The country appears on the brink of collapse amid fierce clashes between Shiite Houthi rebels and military units loyal to President Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi. Saudi Arabia, meanwhile, has vowed to take "necessary measures" against the Houthis if a deal is not reached.
148 Feared Dead After Plane Crash in Southern France
A passenger plane operated by Lufthansa’s Germanwings airline has crashed in southern France with nearly 150 people on board. The Airbus 320 was flying from Barcelona to Dusseldorf when it went down in the French Alps. French President François Hollande said there are likely no survivors.
Tea Party Favorite Sen. Ted Cruz Launches Presidential Bid
Texas Republican senator and tea party favorite Ted Cruz has announced his candidacy for president. In a speech at the evangelical Liberty University, Cruz rolled out an agenda which includes reversing Obamacare, militarizing the U.S.-Mexico border, rolling back abortion rights and same-sex marriage and strengthening support for Israel.
Sen. Ted Cruz: "I believe in you. I believe in the power of millions of courageous conservatives rising up to reignite the promise of America. And that is why today I am announcing that I’m running for president of the United States. ... Instead of a president who boycotts Prime Minister Netanyahu, imagine a president who stands unapologetically with the nation of Israel."
Supreme Court Refuses Challenge to Wisconsin Voter ID Law
The American Civil Liberties Union has filed an emergency motion to block Wisconsin’s voter ID law after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal and left the law in place. The measure threatens to disenfranchise an estimated 300,000 people who lack adequate identification. A lower-court judge had noted there was only one documented case of voter fraud in Wisconsin over a period of eight years. Critics say the law signed by Wisconsin Republican Gov. Scott Walker and others like it nationwide seek to block votes by the poor and people of color, who tend to vote Democratic. The law will not be in effect for April elections.
Justices Appear to Support Texas Ban on Confederate License Plates
The U.S. Supreme Court appeared to side with the state of Texas over its rejection of a license plate bearing the Confederate flag. An attorney for the group Texas Sons of Confederate Veterans argued any type of hate speech should be allowed on license plates under the First Amendment, but the justices appeared to reject that idea.
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy: Incarceration System is "Broken"
U.S. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy has criticized the system of mass incarceration in the United States, saying it relies too heavily on solitary confinement and is "broken." Kennedy, seen as the most moderate voice on the court, and often a key swing vote, made the comments before a House panel.
Justice Anthony Kennedy: "We had a case come before our court a few weeks ago. The prisoner had been in an isolation cell, according to the attorney — I haven’t checked it out — for 25 years. Solitary confinement literally drives men mad. Even Dr. Manette had his workbench and his cobblers’ tools in Tower 105 North, and even he lost his mind. And we simply have to look at this system that we have. ... We haven’t given nearly enough study, nearly enough thought, nearly enough investigative resources to looking at our corrections system. In many respects, I think it’s broken."
Arizona Woman Who Spent 22 Years on Death Row Sees Charges Dismissed
An Arizona woman who spent 22 years on death row has seen the murder charges against her dismissed. Debra Jean Milke was convicted of recruiting two male friends to kill her four-year-old son in a case that rested heavily on a now-discredited detective’s claim Milke had confessed. Milke has been out on bond since her conviction was thrown out in 2013, and on Monday, a judge ordered her electronic monitoring anklet removed.
Utah Governor Signs Law to Allow Firing Squads for Executions
Utah has become the only state to allow firing squads for executions. Gov. Gary Herbert signed the new measure allowing the state to use the firing squad if lethal injection drugs are not available. The drugs have been difficult to obtain because European manufacturers refuse to sell them for U.S. executions.
DOJ Probe: 80% of Philadelphia Police Shooting Victims Were Black
A new Justice Department report criticizes the Philadelphia Police Department over inadequate training and secrecy surrounding shootings. The probe, requested by Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey, found police in Philadelphia fired at people about once a week on average in recent years. In some of those years, Philadelphia saw more police shootings than New York City, a municipality with five times the number of residents and officers. Eighty percent of shooting victims were African-American. The report comes just days after prosecutors said they would not press charges against officers who fatally shot Brandon Tate-Brown, an African American they say reached for a gun during a traffic stop. His family disputes the police account.
Police Find Lack of Evidence in UVA Gang Rape Case
Police in Charlottesville, Virginia, say an investigation into an alleged gang rape at a fraternity reported by Rolling Stone magazine has failed to uncover evidence of a crime. Charlottesville Police Chief Timothy Longo said the outcome "doesn’t mean that something terrible didn’t happen to [the victim] Jackie." Rolling Stone has acknowledged discrepancies in details described by Jackie, who did not participate in the police investigation. When the article came out, UVA was already under federal investigation for its handling of sexual assault, along with a growing list which now includes more than 90 other schools.
Japan: Okinawa Governor Orders Halt to Construction of U.S. Base
In Japan, the governor of Okinawa has ordered a halt to construction of a new U.S. military base there. Takeshi Onaga was elected last year on a platform of stopping the base. He has given the Japanese Defense Ministry a week to stop construction following the discovery massive concrete blocks dropped into the sea as part of the project had damaged coral reefs. The Japanese government has vowed to press ahead with construction, setting up a possible legal battle. Okinawa houses about 26,000 U.S. troops, and their presence has been the subject of protests for decades.
El Salvador Marks 35 Years Since Assassination of Archbishop Óscar Romero
El Salvador has marked the 35th anniversary of the assassination of Archbishop Óscar Romero. Known as the "voice of the voiceless," Archbishop Romero was an advocate for the poor and a leading critic of the U.S.-backed Salvadoran military government. He was killed 35 years ago today by members of a U.S.-backed death squad while he delivered mass at a hospital chapel. His assassination was ordered by Salvadoran military officer Roberto d’Aubuisson, a graduate of the U.S.-run School of the Americas. Pope Francis recently declared Romero a martyr, paving the way for possible sainthood. On Monday, Romero’s supporters marched with paper lanterns in the capital San Salvador. Evelyn López was among them.
Evelyn López: "It’s a sign to remind us of his life, to shine a light on our path, to guide what we should do, and to give us strength, too."
Undocumented Father Who Took Sanctuary in Church Loses Bid to Halt Deportation
An undocumented father of two who has sought sanctuary from deportation in a Denver, Colorado, church for the past five months has had his request to stay his deportation denied. Arturo Hernández García has lived in the United States for over 25 years. He plans to remain in the church and continue fighting his deportation. Click here to watch the recent Democracy Now! interview with him inside the church.
Judge Praises Seneca Lake Gas Storage Protesters, Drops Charges
In upstate New York, a judge has dismissed charges against 42 protesters arrested for civil disobedience against plans by the firm Crestwood Midstream to expand gas storage in caverns at Seneca Lake. According to the group We Are Seneca Lake, Judge Raymond Berry dismissed the charges "in the interests of justice," and commended the protesters, saying, "I’m very proud of you. You had a cause and you fought for it to the best of your ability." Another 100 protesters arrested as part of the campaign will also see their charges dismissed.
Naomi Klein, David Sirota Win Izzy Award for Achievement in Independent Media
The author Naomi Klein and investigative journalist David Sirota have jointly won the seventh annual Izzy Award, presented by the Park Center for Independent Media, and named for legendary dissident journalist, I.F. Stone. The judges praised Klein’s "groundbreaking book," titled This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate, and Sirota’s exposés on corruption in the pension system. Jeff Cohen, director of the Park Center for Independent Media, said in a statement, "Naomi Klein and David Sirota are the journalistic heirs of I.F. Stone, taking on the most powerful forces in society — from Wall Street to Big Oil & Gas — and giving voice to the victims of predatory capitalism."
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