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Refugees are Not Terrorists: HRW Decries Efforts to Reject People Fleeing Wars in Syria & Iraq
Friday’s deadly attacks in Paris have set off a storm of calls to close borders and reject refugees fleeing Syria, where over 4 million people have already left the war-torn country. President Obama said any attempts to block entry of Syrian refugees to the United States is "offensive and contrary to American values." "When individuals say that we should have a religious test and that only Christians—proven Christians—should be admitted, that’s offensive and contrary to American values," Obama said. "I cannot think of a more potent recruitment tool for ISIL than some of the rhetoric that’s been coming out of here during the course of this debate." We speak to Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch’s emergencies director. He has spent the last few months in the Balkans and Greece speaking to refugees coming mostly from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Friday’s deadly attacks in Paris have set off a storm of calls to close borders and reject refugees fleeing Syria, where over 4 million people have already fled the war-torn country. Less than 24 hours after the Paris attacks, Poland’s incoming European affairs minister said Poland would pull back from a European Union-wide commitment to relocate refugees. The anti-refugee sentiment was quickly echoed by other right-wing leaders across Europe. In France, Marine Le Pen, the head of the National Front party, demanded a, quote, "immediate halt of all intake of migrants in France." In the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, the head of the People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy, called on the country’s prime minister to close the borders entirely.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile in the United States, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have called for a pause in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees, and governors of at least 27 U.S. states have said they will not accept Syrian refugees. A Syrian passport which appears to be fake was found near the body of one of the Paris attackers, whose fingerprints matched someone who passed through Greece and the Balkans. But all the attackers identified so far are European nationals.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Speaking in the Philippines, President Obama said any attempts to block entry of Syrian refugees to the United States is, quote, "offensive and contrary to American values."
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We are not well served when, in response to a terrorist attack, we descend into fear and panic. We don’t make good decisions if it’s based on hysteria or an exaggeration of risks. And I think the refugee debate is an example of us not being well served by some of the commentary that’s been taking place by officials back home and in the media. ...
We’re welcome—we’re open to hearing actual ideas, but that’s not really what’s been going on in this debate. When candidates say we wouldn’t admit three-year-old orphans, that’s political posturing. When individuals say that we should have a religious test and that only Christians—proven Christians—should be admitted, that’s offensive and contrary to American values. I cannot think of a more—more potent recruitment tool for ISIL than some of the rhetoric that’s been coming out of here during the course of this debate.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s President Obama speaking in the Philippines.
For more, we’re joined by Peter Bouckaert. He is Human Rights Watch’s emergencies director, just back from months in the Balkans and Greece speaking to refugees coming mostly from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. Posting messages on Twitter, Peter Bouckaert has helped expose the realities of life for refugees fleeing violence at home, was one of the first people to share images of Alan Kurdi, the three-year-old Syrian boy who drowned off a Turkish beach.
Peter Bouckaert, welcome back to Democracy Now!
PETER BOUCKAERT: Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: As you come back, just in the last two days, dealing with the refugees, documenting what’s happening on the ground, your response to what’s being said in the United States about not accepting refugees?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, it’s both morally reprehensible and factually wrong to equate these people with terrorists. They’re actually fleeing from the terrorists, and they’ve faced horrors of war in Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan. Many of them are coming with their families, trying to bring them to safety and a better future in Europe. And they should be welcomed. They will contribute to our society, and they have a right to asylum. They should not be having to risk their lives and face all of this humiliation on this journey just to get what is legally their right.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And could you talk about—you’ve interviewed many of the refugees. Could you talk about some of their experiences and what they’ve told you about their fleeing? Some of them actually fled after being subjected to bombings from Western powers, as well.
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes, many of them have come directly from Syria. They’ve tried to stay in Syria for as long as possible. It’s not like this was their first choice. They really love their country. They’ve faced bombing from the West and from Russia, as well, especially by the Assad regime. And many of them have lost family members to those bombings. I’ve also met a lot of young men and women who have lost their legs and other limbs to these bombing raids and who have been carried this whole journey to safety in Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to comments made by House Speaker Paul Ryan regarding admitting Syrian refugees here in the United States.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN: The national defense bill that I will sign later today requires the president to come up with a plan for defeating ISIS—not just containing, but defeating ISIS. A containment plan is not enough. That has failed. In addition, the majority leader and our committee chairs are developing a plan to address the Syrian refugee crisis. Our nation has always been welcoming, but we cannot let terrorists take advantage of our compassion. This is a moment where it’s better to be safe than to be sorry. So we think the prudent, the responsible thing is to take a pause in this particular aspect of this refugee program, in order to verify that terrorists are not trying to infiltrate the refugee population. In the end, the ultimate solution to this crisis is a strategy to defeat ISIS. All of this rises above politics. This is not about politics. This is about national security. And so, we will invite all of our colleagues, Republicans and Democrats, to work with us quickly to address the urgent nature of this situation.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what Paul Ryan is calling for?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, I think it’s absolutely misguided. Yes, there is a struggle to defeat ISIS, but that is not just a military struggle. It’s a struggle for the hearts and minds of the people of the Middle East. And that struggle for the hearts and minds is actually the most important component of what we have to accomplish. And by shutting the door on the refugees fleeing from ISIS and from the horrors of the war in Syria, we’re doing no favor in terms of winning the hearts and minds of these people.
The reality is that any Syrian refugee coming to the United States already goes through four different levels of security review by different U.S. agencies, so the danger of anybody coming in under the guise of refugee status and being actually a terrorist is absolutely minuscule. We admit 70,000 people already every year, many of them from Iraq and Somalia, and there has not been a single incident of a person turning out to be a terrorist.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Could you talk about the reaction in Europe to the refugees, both before the attacks in Paris and now, subsequently, afterward?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, I think one of the reasons why these two crises—the Paris attack and the refugee crisis—have become conflated is because Europe has not felt in charge of this crisis, because they have not had clear and coherent policies towards these refugees. It has been chaos in Europe. And it’s really important, instead of shutting the door on these people, that we come up with coherent policies which allow people to claim asylum in a way which is safe and legal and protects their rights.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Why has it been so chaotic, given the fact that this has now been going on for at least a year or more?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, the reality is that still on the beaches of Europe, two Alan Kurdis are still drowning every day. And many of the humanitarian needs of these desperate people are being met by volunteers and not by EU institutions, because there are no EU policies towards these people. The EU cannot agree to a common policy on how to accommodate these people, and that’s why we have chaos. It’s really important that Europe and the world takes charge of this crisis, or otherwise the crisis will take charge of Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking Tuesday, the Czech president, Milos Zeman, said the young men fleeing war zones should be, quote, "fighting for their country against the Islamic State."
PRESIDENT MILOS ZEMAN: [translated] The majority of these illegal migrants are young, well-supported men. And I’m asking why these men are not fighting for the freedom of their country against the Islamic State. Why are they not working for their country and its improvement, so that their country overcomes its current state of underdevelopment?
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the Czech president speaking Tuesday. Peter Bouckaert, your response?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, a lot of these men are fleeing because they do not want to fight for Assad. They do not want to be part of the killing machine. And a lot of Afghans are fleeing from Iran, because they do not want to be forced by Iran to go fight for Assad in Syria. I think that’s a noble reason to flee, to not want to be a killer. But it is important, on the other hand, that these people are accommodated, that their children can be educated. There are 400,000 children, Syrian children, out of school in Turkey alone. If we do not provide them with an education, there is no future for Syria, because nobody will be able to run the country in the future.
AMY GOODMAN: What is the U.S.’s responsibility for these refugees, in the original cause?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, we are faced with a generational crisis in the Middle East. These conflicts really are a challenge to our generation. And we need a global response. We all need to do our part, including the U.S. and Canada and Australia, to accommodate these refugees, to provide them with safe refuge, to help educate their children, and ultimately to help resolve the conflicts in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, because the roots—
AMY GOODMAN: How did the crisis get started?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes, it’s absolutely true that Afghanistan was invaded by the United States in 2001 and Iraq was invaded in 2003. Many mistakes were made in terms of the policies adopted. And so we do also have a moral responsibility towards these people fleeing the consequences of our actions, to some degree.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to go to break, then come back and play a report by Human Rights Watch, the refugees on the ground. Then Barbara Lee will also be joining us, Congressmember Barbara Lee. And we’ll go to Paris to talk with climate activists. Will marches be allowed after the Paris attacks? Stay with us.
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Desperate Journey: Shocking Video Shows Risks Refugee Families Take to Reach Europe Safely
So far this year, more than 800,000 asylum seekers and refugees have arrived in Europe by sea. Human Rights Watch has just produced a short video capturing the harrowing journey to Europe. "Desperate Journey: Europe’s Refugee Crisis" is narrated by HRW’s Judith Sunderland.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Friday’s deadly attacks in Paris have set off a storm of calls to close borders and reject refugees fleeing Syria, where over 4 million people have already fled the war-torn country. So far this year, more than 800,000 asylum seekers and refugees have arrived in Europe by sea. We’re going to turn now to a video by Human Rights Watch capturing this journey to Europe. The film is narrated by Human Rights Watch’s Judith Sunderland.
GREEK COAST GUARD: Wait on the boat! We’re coming! Wait!
Take the baby, please.
SYRIAN REFUGEE BOY: [translated] During our ride, the rubber boat started tipping. Kids were falling on top of each other, and women were falling on top of each other. The whole boat filled with water. Then the boat just stopped. We were whistling and calling for help. We contacted the Greek Coast Guard via WhatsApp, and they came and saved us. Life isn’t safe anymore. We can’t live in Syria anymore.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Over 800,000 asylum seekers and migrants reached Europe by sea this year. More than 200,000 arrived on the Greek islands in October alone. Most of them come from countries where conflict, repression and fear force people to flee for their lives.
AFGHAN REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated] The Taliban warned us to leave, or our lives would be in danger. They killed seven of my friends. They mostly targeted women.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: And did they threaten you personally? They said to you, "You have to go"?
AFGHAN REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated] Yes, because I was educating people about violence against women in different Afghan provinces. That’s why I was threatened.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Over 3,400 people, including many children, have died at sea trying to reach the European Union this year. Yet despite the risks, they keep coming.
SYRIAN REFUGEE MOTHER: [translated] My daughters and I suffered so much. The decision to make the journey was very difficult. We knew it was a death journey. We knew our lives were at stake. But it didn’t matter if we lived or died. The risk was better than to continue living as Syrian refugees in Turkey.
VOLUNTEER 1: Where are you going now?
REFUGEE MAN 1: We are going down to Allemagne
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: How many days since they’ve had their medicine?
PETER BOUCKAERT: When did you leave Deir ez-Zor?
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Human Rights Watch sent teams of researchers to document the dangerous journeys—and the hardships upon arrival.
REFUGEE MAN 2: And the governments there said, "Go back to Hungary."
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: We spoke to Syrians, Afghans, Iraqis, Eritreans and Somalis. In story after story, we heard that the only way out of violence and terror at home and unbearable conditions in neighboring countries was to resort to smugglers and flee through dangerous crossings.
REFUGEE FATHER: [translated] When we were taken through the mountains in Iran, my son fell and fractured his leg, and my sister fractured her forehead. We were going through the mountains, and the smugglers were pushing us. If we didn’t run, we would have been shot. The smugglers forced us onto the boats. We were scared. We didn’t want to go on the boats.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: If there were safe and legal routes to seek refuge, far fewer people would be at the mercy of abusive smugglers.
VOLUNTEER 2: Did you go to any embassy to apply for asylum?
AFGHAN REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated] I emailed the Canadian Embassy, but they didn’t reply.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: We have witnessed scenes of chaos at many EU borders for months now. Daily arrivals of thousands of people on Greek islands created an ongoing humanitarian crisis, hitting those most vulnerable the hardest.
REFUGEE MOTHER: [translated] She’s been bedridden for 15 years. She can’t move her legs, and she can’t see. She can’t speak, and she just moans. We don’t know where she’ll sleep tonight. Please, help us. We can’t stay out here day and night like the others. We can’t stay out here with her.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Most of those who reach Greece by sea continue their journey over land through the Western Balkans, encountering police abuse, terrible detention conditions and cascading border closures. Many EU governments are focused on preventing arrivals instead of managing the flow humanely. A plan to relocate tens of thousands of asylum seekers from front-line states like Greece and Italy has gotten off to such a slow start, at this rate it will take over 180 years to reach the target. And months into this crisis, with winter approaching, volunteers—not governments—are still at the forefront of providing humanitarian assistance.
REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated] Do something so that the refugees won’t suffer so much on the way. We have suffered a lot. We came on foot with small children. People are going to come here anyway, no matter how difficult. They are determined to come.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Until now, the response of EU governments to the crisis has been deeply flawed, defined by deaths at sea, chaos and distressing humanitarian conditions. People should not have to risk their lives or face so many obstacles to reach a place of refuge. The European Union has a legal and moral obligation to fairly process and humanely host asylum seekers and refugees, and respect the rights and dignity of everyone who arrives at its border.
SYRIAN REFUGEE MAN: We are from Syria, from Damascus. Damascus is a very good—before, before the war. We are just like here: We have money, we have houses, we have cars—we have everything. The war damaged everything.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: So what do you need?
SYRIAN REFUGEE MAN: Peace. Just peace, yeah.
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: EU governments should ensure safe passage, access to asylum at and within its borders, and make sure human rights and compassion are at the heart of its response to this challenge.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Desperate Journey: Europe’s Refugee Crisis, narrated by Judith Sunderland of Human Rights Watch. Still with us is Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch’s emergencies director. Peter, the volunteers that you’ve referenced and that we saw in that film, who are they? Where are they coming from? How are they being organized?
PETER BOUCKAERT: You know, I think that’s one of the most inspiring aspects of what is happening in Europe. We have apathy by European governments, but volunteers have come from all over the world to try to help these desperate people. We have Spanish lifeguards on the beaches with jet skis, rescuing boats when people fall in the water. Just last night, an Iraqi man fell off a boat and almost died. They spent 45 minutes looking for him in the night. And an Israeli doctor revived him and treated his hypothermia. It’s really that kind of coming together by volunteers which is saving so many lives.
AMY GOODMAN: And the last woman we saw in that piece, where was she from? The woman from—was she from Afghanistan?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes, she was from Afghanistan. Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And what did she tell you?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, she told me, "The obstacles that we face in Europe are not going to stop us. We’ve walked over mountains to get this far, and we will get to our destination." So the question really is: How difficult do we want to make this journey for people? Because they are determined to bring their children to safety.
AMY GOODMAN: How many people a day are landing on Lesbos?
PETER BOUCKAERT: On some of the days I was there, up to 5,000 people arrived. That’s a hundred boats.
AMY GOODMAN: By boat, a day?
PETER BOUCKAERT: By boat, yes. And you have to understand, those people are paying $1,200 for this trip, when there’s a legal ferry doing the same journey for 20 euros, which is empty.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert, we want to thank you very much for being with us, emergencies director for Human Rights Watch.
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Rep. Barbara Lee, Sole Vote Against Unlimited War After 9/11, Demands Debate on New Military Action
Fourteen years ago, California Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee cast the sole dissenting vote against the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. Three days after the Sept. 11 attacks, she took to the floor of the House and said: "Our country is in a state of mourning. Some of us must say, let’s step back for a moment. Let’s just pause just for a minute and think through the implications of our actions today so that this does not spiral out of control." Rep. Lee is now calling on Congress to repeal the 2001 and 2002 authorizations for military force, saying they have been used as blank checks for endless war.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Barbara Lee, we want to go back to that moment 14 years ago when you cast the sole dissenting vote against the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. Let’s go back to that speech three days after September 11th attacks.
REP. BARBARA LEE: September 11th changed the world. Our deepest fears now haunt us. Yet I am convinced that military action will not prevent further acts of international terrorism against the United States. This is a very complex and complicated matter.
Now, this resolution will pass, although we all know that the president can wage a war even without it. However difficult this vote may be, some of us must urge the use of restraint. Our country is in a state of mourning. Some of us must say, let’s step back for a moment. Let’s just pause, just for just a minute, and think through the implications of our actions today, so that this does not spiral out of control.
Now, I have agonized over this vote. But I came to grips with it today. And I came to grips with opposing this resolution during the very painful, yet very beautiful, memorial service. As a member of the clergy so eloquently said, "As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore."
AMY GOODMAN: That was California Congressmember Barbara Lee speaking on September 14, 2001, three days after the 9/11 attacks. Congressmember Lee, you’re now calling on Congress to repeal the 2001 and 2002 authorizations for military force, saying they’ve been used as blank checks for endless war. Can you talk about who’s joining you in this call? When you made that speech 14 years ago, you got death threats, you had to get security around you.
REP. BARBARA LEE: Amy, those were very difficult days. We had been under a terrible attack. We lost many, many people. My chief of staff’s cousin, Wanda Green, unfortunately, was on Flight 93. We lost Wanda and all of the victims of the horrific attacks of 9/11 we still think about, pray for, and wonder how this could happen. And so, believe you me, during that moment, we had, I believe, then, the chance to really step out, continue with our mourning and anger, but, as members of Congress, try to come up with some rational approach to address terrorism in a way that did not cause more wars, more terrorist attacks and more violence.
Having said that, then the Iraq resolution came forward the next year, with this resolution as the basis for the Iraq resolution. And at this point, we asked the Congressional Research Service last year, Amy, to conduct a survey for us—it’s unclassified—to determine when and where these authorizations have been used. Well, over 30-some times they’ve been used in Somalia and Yemen, all around the world, for the use of force or for other types of indeterminate detentions, Guantánamo, wiretaps, you name it. And so, we need to go back now. This is a new day. This is another war that the United States is in. And, in fact, I think the public is demanding that we debate this, look at the costs and consequences, debate whether or not we should authorize another use of force. I’m not saying we should or should not, but minimally, our constitutional responsibility warrants that we do that.
Now, we have many members of Congress who have supported this effort. I mean, we—sometimes I have amendments to the appropriate bills, and I’ve—that would say, let’s repeal these authorizations. Congressman McGovern, Congressman Jones, others, in a bipartisan way, have stepped up and offered these amendments. And we probably get between 150 and 170 votes. Well, you know, in the House, it takes about—it takes 218 votes, and we have not gotten to that point yet. But I believe the more we talk about it, the more the public is going to demand that they understand what is taking place and engage in—and make us engage in doing our job the proper way and engage in a debate. Because three days after the horrific attacks of 9/11, I think we had a one-hour debate, Amy, on the use of force. That, to me, was just wrong. It abdicated our responsibility. We should have waited. We should have assessed what took place and come up with a comprehensive strategy in our response to 9/11. So I think we need to really go back now and have that debate, that we never had before, quite frankly.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Congresswoman Lee, your assessment of how President Obama is dealing with the situation currently? Obviously, he came into office vowing to end the wars in the Middle East. He has now extended the troops, ground troops, in Afghanistan through the end of his term and reinserted 50 more—or 50 ground troops now into Syria. Your sense of how he’s dealing with things?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, first, he certainly has shifted direction from the Bush administration. Of course, I am extremely concerned about the additional troops. I don’t support the use of ground troops. We understand this has got to be a regionally led commitment to dismantle and disable and rid the world, quite frankly, of ISIS. But it’s got to be regionally led. So I think the president is trying to calibrate this in a way that—and he has said he’s not going to send ground troops in, but I don’t want to see this mission creep occur on his watch. And he did send forward a resolution, under Speaker Boehner, last year for us to debate and to vote on, and Speaker Boehner never brought this resolution before us. And so, we’ve never even had a chance to look at what the president has done or is doing, and really have Congress either back it or not back it.
And so, I think what the president is saying now, though, is very important when he talks about the refugee crisis and how we should not shift our policy and how we need to continue to step up and do the right thing as Americans. And so, the president, I think, needs to have Congress weigh in on his strategy, because if we don’t weigh in, we’ve abdicated our responsibility to the administration. And, you know, then the public will never know what Congress’s will, which would be their will, would be as it relates to the escalation of the use of force in the region, which we have not authorized.
AMY GOODMAN: The U.S. has just sealed, the Obama administration, yet another arms deal with Saudi Arabia, in the last year signed the biggest arms deals in the history of the world with Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia behind a lot of the militant activism from al-Qaeda to ISIS. Do you condemn these sales?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, first, we need to reduce the sale of arms throughout the world. Also, I think when you look at the—for example, trying to rid Iran of the ability to develop nuclear weapons, we engaged in a strong, robust diplomatic effort. Many years ago, I introduced the first resolution calling for the end of no contact policy, for a special envoy and for us to begin to negotiate with Iran the elimination of their program of developing nuclear weapons. So far, those negotiations and that Iranian deal has worked. And so I think that we need to move in that direction in terms of diplomacy, in terms of trying to seek global peace and security without selling arms to all countries, because what you will have is an arms buildup throughout the world, and then weapons will be pointed at—each country will have weapons—of course, a nuclear weapon is the ultimate weapon—pointed in all directions. And so, we need to determine ways, as the president has done with regard to Iran, ways in which to engage to reduce the threats and to reduce the sale and the use of force and armaments and military weapons, because these can only make the world more dangerous.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I’m wondering what advice you might have to parliamentarians in France now, as France is going through the same kind of crisis that this country went through after the attacks of 2001. The president is now seeking authorization from the French Parliament for extraordinary measures in his country. What advice might you give to the parliamentarians of France?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, first, my thoughts and prayers go out to the people of France. They’re really in a moment of sorrow and pain. We feel the tragedy and the pain that they’re suffering through. Of course, France is one of our oldest—is our oldest ally. And we have many, many connections, many relationships, our foreign policy. We have many similarities to the French people, and so we have to really feel what has taken place and support the French people throughout this terrible, difficult moment.
My only suggestion would be to debate this, to listen, to look at all of the alternatives, and to not rush to judgment. Whatever the Parliament decides, I think it takes a methodology and strategy that really will keep the country safe and that will ensure that violence is reduced, rather than engage in actions that would create more havoc and more violence. But I tell you, that’s up to the French Parliament and the French people to determine how best they want to respond as a country.
AMY GOODMAN: If war were not an option, Congressmember Lee, the U.S. spending actually trillions of dollars on war, when you look at all of the costs, including soldiers coming home deeply wounded and being cared for for the rest of their lives, not to mention the havoc on the ground in the Middle East, from Afghanistan to Iraq and Syria, what is the option? What is the foreign policy that you would design?
REP. BARBARA LEE: The foreign policy that I would design—and I have legislation that sort of sets out, for example, what a roadmap to a strategy in the Middle East would be as it relates to ISIS, and that’s looking at not the military option as the first option, Amy—that’s always going to be there—but looking at how we can support and enhance a regionally led strategy that would lead to a political and diplomatic settlement. The people have to be empowered. They have to feel that their countries are including them in the government and in all of the development and the fabric of their governments. That’s not happening in many countries in the world. And so we have to have a regionally led strategy. And my legislation lays that out.
Of course, as I said earlier, the military option is going to always be there. We can’t say that the use of force or military action is never acceptable. But we have to try other methods first, if we really want to achieve global peace and security. And I think that’s what many members of Congress are saying, regardless of the extremely right-wing responses. We have to, as leaders, really lay out a vision and an alternative, and hopefully have a debate on what those alternatives are, because our veterans have come home, many can’t even get a job, many are homeless. I’m the daughter of a veteran. And, Amy, I’m telling you, we—our veterans have paid us a very heavy price. They’ve served this country well. They’ve done everything we’ve asked them to do. Yet we cannot seem to figure out ways to insure their health, their mental health, their security. Of course, we’ve done much better under this administration. And when—of course, as I have to say, when Speaker Pelosi was speaker during those years, we did invest more in our veterans and in their security, economic security, healthcare and mental health. But we haven’t done everything we should do, and we need to do more for our veterans. We need—I’m on the veterans subcommittee of the Appropriations Committee. And believe you me, we need many more efforts and many more resources put into the veterans’ initiatives that we all support.
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"This Moment Tests the Character of the Nation": Rep. Barbara Lee Rejects Anti-Refugee Efforts
House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have called for a "pause" in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees. Meanwhile, governors of at least 27 U.S. states have said they will not accept Syrian refugees. We speak to California Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As we turn now to Washington, D.C., as House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell are calling for a pause in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees, I want to bring into the conversation Congressmember Barbara Lee of California. Your response to the crackdown? Now, 27 governors are saying they will not accept Syrian refugees. In fact, your theory, Peter Bouckaert, around the finding of the Syrian passport, the false passport, in one of the gunmen in Paris?
PETER BOUCKAERT: I think ISIS wanted that passport to be found. They hate these refugees more than anybody in Europe, because these refugees are fleeing from their self-declared caliphate. They would love it if we shut the door on these refugees. It’s pure propaganda value for ISIS if we do so.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Barbara Lee, what is being called for in Congress? Your response to the House speaker?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, there are some who are calling for a halt. I believe Speaker Ryan wants us to, as he said, put a "pause" in our refugee policy and resettlement policy. But I have to just say, this moment really tests the character of our nation, Amy. When you look at the vetting process, the investigations, the screening, the background checks that occur as it relates to refugees, especially Syrian refugees, this can take up to two years. Homeland Security is very thorough. I am on the Appropriations Committee, and we support and want to work to make sure Homeland Security has all the resources that it needs. But I have to say that to put a halt into allowing people to come in who are widows, who are children, who are fleeing horrific circumstances, that’s not who we are as a country. And there are many of us who are not going to accept this type of a move to really put a halt in this program.
This is the moment when we have to step up as a country and demonstrate to the world who we are. And we do have to issue—I mean, we do have, excuse me, our overall national security issues and difficulties that we have to address, but we must step up as leaders and address them in a way that is American. That’s the American way to do this.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Congresswoman Lee, your response to the fact that this huge refugee crisis—the responsibility of the United States, given that the refugees are largely coming from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, precisely the countries that our government was involved in military interventions and occupations of, and that now has led to this chaos and extremism in their own lands?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, 14 years ago, I voted against the blank check that authorized the use of force that created the conditions for what we see today. This was the wrong approach, I believe. We see that the military actions have not made the world any safer. And, in fact, we need to really begin to look at our overall strategy and look at what is—what are the underlying causes and reasons for all of this chaos and all of this violence. That does not mean that we do not intend to deal with ISIS and any other terrorist group. We can’t look at the world through rose-colored glasses. We have to have a comprehensive strategy that’s going to dismantle and defeat ISIS. But that doesn’t mean we create war and more violence and more conditions that cause people to continue to flee. So we have to go back to the drawing board, I believe, and really come up with a reasonable, rational strategy.
Also, let me say that we have not had a debate. We have not had a new authorization to use force. We have not done our jobs as members of Congress to authorize these new wars. And so we need, at this point, I think, a full debate on the options, the alternatives, the costs and the consequences. But minimally, we should not prevent people fleeing from countries that are war-torn from coming to our country. We have very strong, strict investigative processes. We do background checks. Homeland Security, if they need more resources, of course, I would support more resources. I think many members would. But we can’t allow the character and the values of our nation change under such a terrible crisis that’s taking place.
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Climate Activists Vow to Continue with Protests Ahead of Paris Talks
In the wake of the Paris attacks, climate activists and the French government are at odds over plans for a massive protest march on Nov. 29 ahead of the U.N. climate talks. French authorities are threatening to curtail public demonstrations and marches, but climate activists insist the right to protest and freedom of speech must be upheld even during a state of emergency. We speak to Alix Mazounie, the international policies coordinator at Climate Action Network France.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We end today’s show in Paris by looking at the impact of Friday’s attacks on the upcoming U.N. climate change conference. Organizers from around the world have been planning demonstrations and actions throughout the two-week conference, including a massive march scheduled for November 29th, the day before the talks begin. As many as 200,000 people were expected to attend.
AMY GOODMAN: But now French authorities are threatening to curtail the public demonstrations and marches in the wake of Friday’s attacks. For more, we’re going directly to Paris to Alix Mazounie, the international policies coordinator at Climate Action Network France. On Tuesday, she was part of a meeting with the French foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, to discuss the ways the marches and demonstrations could go forward.
Alix, welcome to Democracy Now! What came of this meeting? And then, we would like to ask you to describe what the climate is like in Paris now.
ALIX MAZOUNIE: So, indeed, a number of NGOs met with our foreign affairs minister yesterday morning to discuss what could come out, you know, what kind of mobilizations would still be authorized, not just on November 29th, but also across both weeks of the COP, as many, many things were planned. And so, the signal, the political signal, he sent us was: "We want to maintain a form of public expression across both weeks. We’re looking into options. Obviously, the main concern is safety, safety of the French people, safety of all the people in the streets of Paris, internationals, nationals, who want to march on climate change and express themselves."
So, I mean, he sent us an important political signal, but he is the minister of foreign affairs, not the minister in charge of safety concerns. So what we’re waiting for now is a definite response from the prime minister tonight or tomorrow morning to tell us exactly what form of that—you know, we hope that there will be a form of public expression and that the question is not whether or not there will be one, but which one it will be, taking into account all those security constraints.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And in terms of the situation with the borders and people who might be coming from other countries, coming into France, will there be increased difficulties, in that sense?
ALIX MAZOUNIE: So we were told that people with Schengen visas would still be able to get through the borders, and it was only a matter of security checks at the borders regularly, so people would have to have all their documents with them, but that normally, apart from a few extra challenges, it should not stop international groups from coming to Paris. And this is a very important signal of solidarity. We need them to be in Paris with us throughout the COP. We need them to march with us on the 29th. And we need them to support us also across the world, not just in Paris. We know that a number of marches will be organized, you know, in different places across all continents on November 28th and 29th, and we want them to march in solidarity with us, on our behalf and in our name. So we hope that the message will be sent across to everyone.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re speaking just hours after another raid on a Paris apartment, and this resulted in seven arrests and two people dead. It’s not clear how much more of these kind of actions will be going on. Why do you feel it is still important to march on November 29th, not to mention have actions throughout the two weeks of the climate summit?
ALIX MAZOUNIE: I think that the discussions that we’ve been having among French groups and with international groups is that, more than ever before, we need to tackle climate change. If there is one war that needs to be done, you know, and we have to go for it, it’s the war against climate change. And it will have impacts on many—on many other issues. It will increase social stability. It will make sure people have food in their stomachs. It will make sure people can live with they are and they don’t live in a climate of fear or social instability. So, in that context, we want a strong climate agreement in Paris. We want to make sure that more and more people mobilize on the issue of climate change, but, more generally, around solidarity, unity and peace, obviously, which are all very connected issues.
And, you know, the motto of the city of Paris, I don’t know exactly how to translate it into English, but it basically says, "We can cope with waves, but you know we will never, ever sink. We will stay afloat." And I think this is also part of the message. More than ever, people across the world and in Paris need to stand up to say that they are fearless and that they want their right to public and democratic freedom of speech, and that climate change today is that one issue where we can express it. And that’s why we need people to mobilize across both weeks in Paris and across the world in solidarity with us.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And are you worried that the national leaders, now so much focused, after the horrible events of last week, on fighting terrorism, might not be as focused on the issue of the negotiations that occur at the summit?
ALIX MAZOUNIE: This is a major concern, indeed. We know that leaders are coming to Paris, but we’re not sure whether climate change will still be the one and only priority on their agenda, and understandably so. At the same time, as I said, climate change is a symptom, and the causes and consequences of climate change are connected to all of this terrorism. They’re fueling terrorism. They’re fueling the social instability, you know, the world of unrest in which we live today. So, to us, it makes complete sense to discuss, you know, even more so, why we need to tackle climate change, why we need a strong agreement in Paris, why we need strong climate action everywhere, solidarity, financial support from developed to developing countries, a vision with no fossil fuels in the picture, and a world where there are jobs being created thanks to renewable energy and energy efficiency. So, all of these issues must connect in Paris and make sure that, actually, now we even have more of a leverage to get a strong climate agreement in Paris.
AMY GOODMAN: Alix Mazounie, we want to thank you for being with us. You’re standing in front of the Place de la République, where people are showing their solidarity with those who died on Friday. Alix Mazounie is international policies coordinator at the Climate Action Network France.
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As Supreme Court Takes Key Texas Abortion Case, Barbara Lee Defends Access for Low-Income Women
A new study has found at least 100,000 and as many as 240,000 women in Texas have attempted to self-induce an abortion. The study comes after about half the abortion clinics in Texas closed under a harsh anti-choice law passed in 2013. On Friday, the Supreme Court agreed to hear a challenge by abortion providers to the Texas law, marking what could be the most significant abortion case since Roe v. Wade. We speak with California Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee, who introduced a bill in July to expand abortion access by dismantling the Hyde Amendment, which bans federal funding for abortion. "The right wing is trying to take away women’s rights, there is a war on women, and we’re not going to let that happen, and so we have to fight back," Lee says. "We’re on the offense. And we’re going to one day—and I think it’s going to be sooner than later—we’re going to make sure that low-income women have full access to reproductive health services"
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember—Congressmember Lee, we just have 30 seconds. On a wholly different issue, the Supreme Court has just agreed to hear the challenge to the Texas law, abortion law. In July, you introduced a bill to expand abortion access by repealing the Hyde Amendment, which gives—which forbids any kind of federal funding of abortion. Where is that going? And your response to the Supreme Court looking at this law that could close three-quarters of the abortion clinics in Texas?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, let me say, the Hyde Amendment was instituted in the '70s. It prevented a full range of access to reproductive health services, including abortions, for low-income women, many of which are women of color. And no one in Congress has stepped up in the past to try to repeal that amendment. But young women around the country developed a movement, several years ago, to say, "We're not going to allow this to continue without having a full debate on it and without having an effort to repeal this Hyde Amendment." And I have to applaud all of the members of Congress, the Pro-Choice Caucus, our leader, Pelosi, and the women, especially, around the country who said, "Lets’ introduce a bill to repeal it."
We have now, Amy—within seven or eight months, we have 103 co-sponsors. And so, I think the country understands that the right wing is trying to take away women’s rights. There is a war on women. And we’re not going to let that happen. And so we have to fight back. We’re on the offense. And we’re going to one day—and I think it’s going to be sooner than later—we’re going to make sure that low-income women have full access to reproductive health services. And that’s the way you ensure liberty and justice for all women.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Barbara Lee, we want to thank you for being with us. This is Democracy Now! We’ll be back in a minute.
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France: 7 Detained, 2 Killed in Raid Seeking Paris Attack Suspect
In France, at least seven people have been detained and two have been killed after a series of gun battles and a police raid on an apartment in a northern suburb of Paris. Authorities said the operation targeted a Belgian man accused of masterminding the Paris attacks that killed 129 people Friday. Abdelhamid Abaaoud was initially said to be in Syria. Early this morning, French police stormed an apartment in Saint-Denis, where a woman reportedly killed herself by detonating an explosive vest. A second suspect was killed, reportedly from gunfire and a grenade. At the time of this broadcast, authorities say it’s unclear whether Abaaoud was in the apartment. French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve discussed the operation.
Bernard Cazeneuve: "Since 4:00 this morning, French special forces police have carried out an operation to neutralize terrorists. Seven people were arrested. Two people have died, including a woman, by explosives."
Five police officers were wounded and a police dog was killed in the hours-long operation. Meanwhile, authorities in Belgium have charged two men with assisting Salah Abdeslam, a second fugitive suspect in the Paris attacks, by driving him to Brussels. Abdeslam’s family has called for him to turn himself in. Amid security fears Tuesday, authorities in Hanover, Germany, abruptly canceled a soccer match following a "concrete tip" about a planned bomb attack. Two Air France flights bound for Paris from the United States were diverted over reports of bomb threats.
Report: Russia Bombed 10 Medical Facilities in Syria
France, Russia and the United States have launched fresh airstrikes against the Islamic State in Syria. This comes as a U.S.-based human rights group accused Russia of bombing at least 10 medical facilities in Syria last month. Physicians for Human Rights said it chronicled 16 attacks total on Syrian medical establishments in October alone, the highest tally in the conflict to date.
GOP Lawmakers Call for Pausing Syrian Refugee Program
Friday’s deadly attacks in Paris have set off a storm of calls to close borders and reject refugees fleeing Syria. In the United States, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have called for a "pause" in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees, and governors of at least 27 U.S. states have said they will not accept the refugees. The White House held a conference phone call with 34 governors Tuesday. President Obama said attempts to block refugees are "offensive and contrary to American values."
President Obama: "We’re open to hearing actual ideas, but that’s not really what’s been going on in this debate. When candidates say we wouldn’t admit three-year-old orphans, that’s political posturing. When individuals say that we should have a religious test and that only Christians—proven Christians—should be admitted, that’s offensive and contrary to American values."
We’ll have more on Syrian refugees with Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch and California Congressmember Barbara Lee after headlines.
Paris Climate March in Doubt amid Post-Attack Crackdown
It remains unclear exactly how the upheaval in Paris will impact the United Nations climate change summit, which opens in Paris November 30. Environmentalists from around the world have planned a massive march with 200,000 people expected the day before talks begin. Ahead of the summit, the U.S. Senate voted Tuesday to block President Obama’s new regulations to cut carbon emissions from coal-fired power plants. This all comes after last month shattered records, becoming by far the warmest October ever recorded worldwide. We’ll have more on the Paris climate talks and the outlook for protests later in the broadcast.
Nigeria: 32 Killed in Boko Haram Attack on Market
In Nigeria, at least 32 people have been killed in a suicide bombing at a crowded market in the northeastern city of Yola. It’s the latest in a series of deadly attacks attributed to the militant group Boko Haram. The attack comes just days after Nigerian President Muhammadu Buhari visited the area and deemed Boko Haram "very close to defeat."
U.S. OKs $1.29B Arms Deal to Saudi Arabia Despite War Crime Fears
The Obama administration has announced approval of a $1.29 billion arms sale to Saudi Arabia, despite reports of possible war crimes in Yemen. The State Department approved the sale of tens of thousands of bombs, as well as munitions and other weaponry, produced by Boeing and Raytheon. The weapons replenish stocks used by Saudi Arabia in the U.S.-backed bombing campaign in Yemen, where Amnesty International has warned of apparent war crimes by the Saudi-led coalition. Meanwhile, executions in Saudi Arabia have reached a 20-year high, with more than 150 people executed this year.
Report: Up to 240,000 Texas Women Have Tried to Self-Induce Abortions
In the United States, a new report reveals at least 100,000 women in the state of Texas have attempted to self-induce an abortion. The groundbreaking study by the Texas Policy Evaluation Project comes as the Supreme Court has agreed to hear a challenge to a sweeping Texas anti-choice law. Since the law passed in 2013, about half of the state’s 41 abortion clinics have closed. The study found as many as 240,000 Texas women have tried to end a pregnancy without medical assistance, citing restrictions including a lack of funds to travel to a clinic or the fact their local clinic had shut down.
Kentucky: State’s Last Full-Time Abortion Clinic Vandalized Twice
In Kentucky, the state’s last remaining full-time abortion clinic has been vandalized for the second time in less than a month. Last week, a man threw a rock through the glass door of EMW Women’s Surgical Center in Louisville, just two weeks after another man hurled himself into the clinic’s window, shattering it. The clinic’s executive director told Insider Louisville: "We’re not angry, we’re not afraid, we’re just really sad that the mentality out there isn’t more understanding and compassionate for women."
Spanish Judge Issues Arrest Warrant for Netanyahu over Flotilla Raid
A Spanish judge has issued an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and seven other former and current Israeli officials over the deadly 2010 Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla. Nine people were killed when Israeli commandos stormed the Mavi Marmara in international waters; a 10th died after four years in a coma. The case against Israeli officials in Spain emerged after Spanish activists on board the flotilla sued Netanyahu. The judge’s move means Netanyahu could be detained and questioned if he steps foot in Spain.
Philippines: Obama Faces Protest at APEC over U.S. Military Actions
President Obama faced protests over the role of the U.S. military as he arrived in the Philippines for the APEC summit. His visit comes as the Philippines Supreme Court considers a constitutional challenge to a military deal that would grant U.S. troops broad access to military bases in the Philippines. Diego Torres was among the activists who gathered to oppose Obama’s arrival in Manila.
Diego Torres: "Today, Obama will arrive in the Philippines, and this is our welcome for him—a protest that rejects his presence because we do not want the leader of the United States, the chief architect of aggression and cruelty toward many nations around the world, to land in the Philippines."
Statoil Ends Arctic Oil Drilling Program
The Norwegian oil company Statoil has announced it’s ending its Arctic oil drilling program, even though its stakes in the Arctic don’t expire until 2020. The move comes after Shell walked away from its oil drilling program in the Arctic after spending $7 billion on it.
Report: Carson Advisers Say He Struggles with Foreign Policy
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson’s own advisers have acknowledged he is struggling to comprehend foreign policy. Carson, who is the leading Republican candidate in some polls, has blundered on the topic of foreign policy, including wrongly claiming China is involved militarily in Syria. Speaking to The New York Times, a top Carson adviser said, "Nobody has been able to sit down with [Carson] and have him get one iota of intelligent information about the Middle East."
Bobby Jindal Ends Presidential Campaign
Meanwhile, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal has ended his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination. After failing to gain much traction, Jindal said Tuesday it was not his time.
Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal: "So, look, we announced, obviously, today we are suspending the presidential campaign. Look, I am honored to have had the chance to run for president of the United States. My parents came here 45 years ago in search of freedom and opportunity. Never in a million years would they have imagined that I could be governor, much less run for president. This wasn’t our time."
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