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Sandra Bland's Sister Responds to Suicide Allegations, Lawyer Says Waller County Withholding Details
Law enforcement officials in Waller County, Texas, have concluded that the cause of Sandra Bland’s death in police custody was suicide. But Bland’s family and friends dispute claims she was suicidal, and say there is no evidence she previously tried to kill herself before her traffic stop escalated into an arrest. We are joined by Sharon Cooper, who is Sandra Bland’s sister. Also with us is Cannon Lambert, the attorney representing Sandra Bland’s family. He says authorities have given the family only "piecemeal information" from the autopsy they conducted, and disputes the relevance of tests showing marijuana in her system. Cooper says Bland should be remembered as "someone who was unapologetically confident — and that’s OK in today’s world — as somebody who was assertive and somebody who truly stood for what she believed in.”
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Law enforcement officials in Waller County, Texas, have concluded that the cause of 28-year-old African-American woman Sandra Bland’s death in police custody was suicide. Bland was initially stopped for allegedly failing to signal a lane change. In a nationally televised press conference Thursday, Assistant Prosecutor Warren Diepraam said preliminary autopsy results indicate Bland hanged herself in her jail cell three days after the traffic stop escalated into an arrest.
WARREN DIEPRAAM: The only injury which was present on her neck or head was what’s called a ligature thorough or a ligature mark. This is consistent with a suicide, according to the Harris County Institute of Forensic Science, because the mark on her neck, which I will show pictures of at the completion of this discussion, is a uniform and consistent mark around the neck of Miss Bland. Had this been a violent struggle or a murder, you would most likely not expect to see a consistent and uniform ligature mark around her neck.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Diepraam said the report showed no defensive injuries that are typical in cases of violent homicide. But he said it did find indications Bland had tried to harm herself before.
WARREN DIEPRAAM: Suicide has become a possible issue in this particular case. As to that, there were on her left arm what the pathologist conducting the autopsy described as cut marks. There were approximately 30 cut marks on her left wrist, which were also in a state of healing. These roughly 30 cut marks were both in a state of scarring and scabbing, indicating that they may have been placed on her body roughly two to four weeks prior to her incarceration.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Earlier this week, Waller County Sheriff Glenn Smith said Bland told jailers she had previously attempted suicide, but Bland’s family and friends dispute claims she was suicidal, and have called for a second autopsy to be conducted. They also say there is no evidence she previously tried to kill herself.
Many argue Bland should never have been arrested in the first place. She was in Waller County to begin a new job at Prairie View A&M, a historically black university. On her way to campus, she was pulled over for allegedly failing to signal a lane change. Dash cam video of what turned into her arrest shows Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia approaching the driver’s side of Bland’s car and asking her why she appears to be irritated. Bland responds, acknowledging she is a little irritated, because, quote, "You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over, and you stop me." Moments later, Encinia tells Bland to extinguish her cigarette. Bland objects and points out she’s in her own car. At that point, Encinia orders Bland out of her car. When Bland refuses, Encinia threatens to forcibly remove her.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: You seem very irritated.
SANDRA BLAND: I am. I really am, because I feel like it’s crap, what I’m getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over, and you stop me. So, yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesn’t stop you from giving me a ticket, so.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: Are you done?
SANDRA BLAND: You asked me what was wrong, and I told you.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: OK.
SANDRA BLAND: So now I’m done, yeah.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: OK. You mind putting out your cigarette, please?
SANDRA BLAND: I’m in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: Well, you can step on out now.
SANDRA BLAND: I don’t have to step out of my car.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: Step out of the car.
SANDRA BLAND: Why am I—
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: Step out of the car.
SANDRA BLAND: No, you don’t have—no, you don’t have the right—you do not—
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: Step out of the car!
SANDRA BLAND: You do not have the right to do that.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: I do have the right. Now step out, or I will remove you.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: As the dash cam video continues, Officer Encinia escalates the situation when he threatens to, quote, "light [Sandra Bland] up"
SANDRA BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You’re trying to give me a ticket for a failure—
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: I said get out of the car.
SANDRA BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You just opened my car door.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: I’m giving you a lawful order. I am going to drag you out of there.
SANDRA BLAND: You opened my car door. So you’re going—you’re threatening to drag me out of my own car?
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: Get out of the car!
SANDRA BLAND: And then you’re going to assault me? Wow.
TROOPER BRIAN ENCINIA: I will light you up! Get out! Now!
AMY GOODMAN: A video taken by a bystander during the arrest shows Sandra Bland shouting that the officer had slammed her head into the ground and that she can no longer hear.
SANDRA BLAND: You just slammed my head into the ground! Do you not even care about that? I can’t even hear! You slammed me into the ground and everything! Everything!
AMY GOODMAN: Sandra Bland was then taken to jail. She had $5,000 bond set. Three days later, her body was found in her jail cell. Sandra Bland’s body was returned to the Chicago area after the first autopsy where she lived. Her funeral will be held there on Saturday.
As her case continues to draw national scrutiny, we go now to Chicago, where we’re joined by Sharon Cooper, who’s Sandra Bland’s sister. Also with us is Cannon Lambert, the attorney representing Sandra Bland’s family.
We welcome both of you to Democracy Now! Sharon, first, our condolences to your family on this terrible loss.
SHARON COOPER: Thank you very much.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to the Texas authorities saying that Sandra committed suicide using the plastic garbage bag liner that was in her jail cell?
SHARON COOPER: I wish that I could provide you with a thorough response. Unfortunately, we have not received a copy of their completed autopsy or any type of the preliminary report. Everything that we’ve received to this point has been through the media, so I still feel very misinformed.
AMY GOODMAN: What was your reaction to the news conference yesterday? And do you feel they should have met with you before they held the news conference?
SHARON COOPER: Absolutely. We’d love to have documentation to at least look through it, understand it and pose questions. To this point, they have not provided us with anything, although we have asked time and time again since we were initially notified last Monday that our sister passed away in their custody.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Sharon Cooper, your response to the claims that your sister had a previous suicide attempt?
SHARON COOPER: What we’ve seen in the jail documents that they have referenced, again, have been seen only through the media. Nothing has been given to us directly. What I have seen, I can assure you that it doesn’t contain her signature, so we question the authenticity of those documents, as well.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And I’d like to ask Cannon Lambert, the attorney representing Sandra Bland’s family—Cannon Lambert, if you could talk about your response to the preliminary results of the autopsy report and what the significance is legally of the fact that they claim that a lot of marijuana was found in Sandra Bland’s system?
CANNON LAMBERT: First, thanks. I’ll be honest with you, the trickling of information relative to the autopsy is a little bit troubling. Normally what will happen is that you’ll get the full autopsy, and then you’re able to review it, as opposed to just getting piecemeal information.
That being said, as it relates to the legal aspect of marijuana being in her system, frankly, I’m not sure that it has any real relevance to either of the two circumstances that we find ourselves in. If you look at, for example, the stop, there is no question about the fact she was lucid. There’s no question about the fact that she was not in any way intoxicated. The officer did not look to try and arrest her on those grounds. And in fact, the documentation that they point to, though we don’t know the authenticity of it, as mentioned, they don’t make any reference of her being intoxicated or having been arrested because of intoxication. If you look at her responses, you can see that she’s responsive in a very real way, in a way that, psychologically or otherwise, she’s not altered in any way.
And then when you move to the jail aspect of this case, you know, the thing is, practically, on a legal front, it’s almost better for a civil litigation case if in fact she were to have obtained marijuana in the jail. That just belies any sort of real logical concept that they would have been doing what they needed to do at the jail, if she were able to do that. And so, you also ask yourself, too, about whether or not they did an adequate search. Presumptively, they’re going to tell us that they did. And how would she have brought marijuana into the jail to consume it, as has been kind of suggested? There’s no real legal relevance, as far as I’m concerned, as it relates to her having ingested marijuana, if in fact she did.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to read from the text exchange between Waller County District Attorney Elton Mathis and you, Sandra Bland’s family attorney, Cannon Lambert. It is a remarkable series of texts. Mathis writes, "Looking at the autopsy results and toxicology it appears that she may have swallowed a large quantity of marijuana or smoke[d] [it] in the jail. Since your clients have possession of Ms Bland’s body, I must ask that it not be disturbed anymore [t]han necessary and that a proper chain of custody be kept so that she will be available for future examination by qualified experts. This will of course be very relevant in any future criminal or civil litigation and since the potential evidence is in your possession, custody and control..."
Then you respond saying, quote, "Why did Ranger Ellison release her body to us if they or you needed her to be preserved in a particular state? Wouldn’t they have done all they needed to do regarding your criminal investigation prior to releasing her to us? Please advise."
Mathis then explains, saying, quote, "They were trying to accommodate the family. Who did the autopsy here? Perhaps it can be avoided."
Lambert says, quote, "I expressly asked Ranger Ellison if she was ready for release and he told me that she had been released by Harris county coroner."
Finally, Mathis writes, quote, "She was. The tests they need to conduct now are not customarily done in in[-]custody deaths, but the large amounts of drugs in her body would need another procedure. If you can share your autopsy results or allow us to talk to your expert we may be able to work things out. No one had any idea she would’ve been smoking that much marijuana or possibly ingested it during the stop."
So this is a series of texts between you, Cannon Lambert, and the district attorney. How unusual is this? And are you going to be conducting a second autopsy?
SHARON COOPER: So, I think it’s extremely unusual for a couple of reasons. We actually were in immediate contact with the medical examiner’s office when we did find out that Sandra passed away in police custody. They made it very clear to us that it would be counterproductive to come to Texas to retrieve her body without the autopsy being completed. So, we asked for no accommodation. We asked that they complete a thorough and full investigation, given the reason for death that was given. We realized that that is challenging for some to accept; however, we were open to that. We just wanted it to be complete and thorough. So when we intercepted Sandy’s body, which was on Friday, when we got there, they confirmed with us that they had completed a full and thorough investigation—I’m sorry, a full and thorough autopsy of her body at that time, and that would have been inclusive of a toxicology report.
CANNON LAMBERT: And look, let me just kind of explain. Now it seems that he’s walking back the notion that he’s asked for what he asked for in those text messages. But those text messages were very real. And the reality of it is, is that we received those text messages on the same day that this family had brought Sandy back to prepare her for her homegoing. The troubling thing about those texts was, to us, that the initial autopsy was supposed to be full and complete. And it’s important that that take place, because, ultimately, this family just wants to understand what happened to their daughter, to their sister, to their aunt and so forth. And so, when we got the text messages, after they had released her to us—and mind you, we wouldn’t have been able to get her, absent them releasing her to us. But after they released her to us, we did our own independent autopsy. And thereafter, she was embalmed. So the concern that we had is, is that they were looking to try and do a third autopsy. Now, they’ve since said that’s not what they’re going to look to do at this point, so it seems that they’ve walked back from that series of representations.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Cannon Lambert, you’ve indicated now, and also previously, that what’s unusual in this case, one of the things that’s unusual, is the fact that you’ve only been receiving partial information, information has been trickling in about the autopsy report. Could you tell us why you think that is and how typical that is in these kinds of cases? Why haven’t you received the full autopsy report in one go?
CANNON LAMBERT: Well, and I’m not looking to try and evade the question. I don’t know the answer, really. That’s really more a question that, you know, you would almost pose to them. They’re in a position where they’re sitting on all of the information. They have the full autopsy, apparently, because it’s supposedly to be released today, but we have not received it as of now. And why it will be released to the media, when we’ve been asking for it for some time now, I’m not altogether sure. We have not received the police reports. We didn’t receive the booking reports from them. Instead, we’ve been getting this stuff through the media. Now, they might suggest, because I think they have said, is that they were looking to preserve the privacy of the family. But it just doesn’t really seem to make sense that you would be trying to preserve the privacy of the family from the family. It just doesn’t make sense. Instead, we just want to get our hands on all they have, so that we can look at it and find out what we believe took place, and then move from there.
AMY GOODMAN: A local ABC station in Texas obtained a voicemail that Sandy Bland left for a friend while she was in jail that weekend.
SANDRA BLAND: Hey, this is me. I’m, um—I just was able to see the judge. I don’t really know. They got me set at a $5,000 bond. I’m still just at a loss for words, honestly, about this whole process. How this switching lanes with no signal turned into all of this, I don’t even know. But I’m still here, so, I guess, call me back when you can.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that is Sandy Bland herself, recorded in a voicemail message to her friend. Sharon, she had a $5,000 bond set? And did you understand that weekend what was happening about your sister being in jail? Had you, actually, yourself, talked to her?
SHARON COOPER: I did not, myself, speak with her; however, my older sister spoke with her. She spoke with her roughly at about 1:50 on Saturday afternoon, where she essentially shared the very same thing that you hear in that voicemail. She does say that she was stopped for a failure to signal a lane change and that she had a $5,000 bail, which of course meant that she needed $500 bond. And my sister told her, "Absolutely, I will get with the rest of the sisters and work expeditiously to get you out of there." And she said, "OK, totally understand." And to be honest with you, that voicemail there simply corroborates what’s on the dash cam, which is simply a disbelief that she’s in there with a $5,000 bond for a routine traffic stop.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Cannon Lambert, could you tell us what you would like to happen next, legally, in this case?
CANNON LAMBERT: First, I’d like to get all of the documentation that they have, photographs. I’d like to get all the reports they have. I’d like to get all the medical they have. I just want all of the information that they have. Then, from that, we’ll be able to make our way through that information. And we’re also doing our own independent investigation, as well. And then, ultimately, we’ll be able to chart our course. And whether it means that we end up bringing action or whether it means that we come to a conclusion that is consistent with what they represent, at least we’ll be in a position where we can share with the family what our findings are, and then, thereafter, they can make some decisions.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask about the Waller County DA. In 2014, Elton Mathis, the DA, was accused of sending threatening text messages after an African-American clergyman asked Waller County to provide data on prosecution rates by ethnicity. Reverend Walter Pendleton says after he accused DA Mathis of selectively prosecuting minorities, Mathis texted him with threats. Mathis reportedly told him, quote, "You are too stupid to know what that word means." The prosecutor cited examples of white public officials he had prosecuted, and then he texted, quote, "My hounds ain’t even started yet dumb ass. ... When I talk people [will] listen. Keep talking and I will sue your ass for slander." Now, I am saying these words because they are the text, and this was reported in the Houston Chronicle, of the DA that we’re talking about today, in response to a prominent local reverend who was concerned about selective prosecution by ethnicity. Cannon Lambert, can you respond?
CANNON LAMBERT: Well, you know, I can say this, that you never want to have a public official engage in that type of rhetoric. And, you know, we—there’s no question that there is an atmosphere where African Americans are having difficulties with the way that we’re dealt with with the police in many instances. Not all of the time, but there’s no question about the fact that we, as a community, we feel targeted in some way. And so—and I don’t—you know, I don’t make any bones about the fact that we, as African-American people, have every right to assert our rights.
And when I look at Sandy and I see that she is doing nothing more than saying, "I want to be treated the right way, I want to be treated equal," I say, "I celebrate you, sister." That’s the way I see it. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with making a stand when it comes to being treated fairly. You know, it is hard for me to get beyond the fact that this officer that stopped her made a U-turn right after looking her right square in her face, as she made a right-hand turn to go about her business. She didn’t do anything wrong when she made the right-hand turn. She didn’t do anything wrong when she was traversing down the street. It looked very much like she was targeted.
AMY GOODMAN: It is this DA, Elton Mathis, whose texts I just read to a reverend in town who was concerned about selective prosecution, calling him a "dumb ass"—it’s this prosecutor who will determine whether the officer in this case is indicted?
CANNON LAMBERT: Well, look, let’s just put it this way. I think that there’s a lot of things—and those things we’re aware of. There’s a lot of things that really cause concern. And so, while you want to try and feel like you give everybody the benefit of the doubt, you don’t dumb yourself down to the fact that there aren’t factors to be considered. You don’t pretend. And so, you know, the reason this family wants to see independently what’s going on is because, I think very much, you don’t want to put yourself in a position where you have to fully rely on others.
AMY GOODMAN: Sharon Cooper, can you tell us about your sister, Sandy Bland, who you’ll be putting to rest tomorrow? The funeral is set for tomorrow. Tell us about Sandy.
SHARON COOPER: Absolutely. She was a fantastic individual, very vibrant, extremely intelligent. I always felt like she was very intellectually vocal and curious. And what we’ve been able to bear witness to over the last almost two weeks now is her commitment to raising social awareness around the very types of issues that we’re discussing today. And the overwhelming feedback that we have received, worldwide, is just astounding. And I stand in awe of her. I’m proud of her. And to echo Cannon’s points, I celebrate her as my sister. I really do.
AMY GOODMAN: She did this very interesting series called "Sandy Speaks."
SHARON COOPER: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And she was an outspoken member of the Black Lives Matter movement.
SHARON COOPER: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to play a clip of what she said. She would talk about social justice and racism on her Facebook page, as well.
SHARON COOPER: Sure.
SANDRA BLAND: I want the white folks to really understand out there, black people are truly—we’re doing as much as we can. Not all of us, but some of us are really doing as much as we can. And we can’t help but get [bleep] off when we see situations where it’s clear the black life didn’t matter. For those of you questioning why was he running away, well, [bleep], because in the news that we’ve seen as of late, you could stand there, surrender to the cops and still be killed.
AMY GOODMAN: Wow, that is Sandy Bland in her "Sandy Speaks" series. As you listen to her today, Sharon, your thoughts?
SHARON COOPER: I am amazed at the fact that she took the initiative to anchor herself in a movement that she believes strongly in and the fact that that voice is reverberating through social media, whether it’s Twitter or Facebook or Instagram. And I am amazed at how many people she was able to touch on a daily basis. And the irony of the fact that some of her concerns, right, we hear from her directly, in terms of, you know, what may have—may have been an impact to what happened to her ultimately.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Cannon Lambert, just to understand, and I think she’s saying this in the dash cam—that is, the police dash cam—is she’s saying that she didn’t signal when she was changing lanes, because she was changing lanes because the cop was coming up on her. And like many people, she might have been very nervous at that moment. That was number one. And number two, if they thought she was suicidal, if she said she had attempted suicide in the past, why wasn’t she under suicide watch? Why was there this large garbage can in the middle of the cell she was in with a plastic lining in it?
CANNON LAMBERT: Well, that’s part of it, right? I mean, if they do know that she has certain tendencies, then they really have significant problems, because you have to do certain things to ensure that the people that are under your charge are safe. And so, it’s kind of a sword that cuts either way for them. And I think what you’ve heard from this family is, is that they can’t conceive of it, because that’s just not who she was to them. They can’t conceive of Sandy killing herself, and it’s because they, in their interaction with her, walk away just thinking that it’s not fathomable. But, you know, the reality of it is, is that if that did occur and she was under their charge, they have certain obligations. And if they fail to meet those obligations, then there’s going to be some accountability that has to be had.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Sharon, she had just gotten a job at her alma mater, at Prairie View A&M, a historically black college in Waller?
SHARON COOPER: Yes. Yes, ma’am. She was thrilled about it. I can tell you that my mom and myself, we’re fortunate enough to have some final voicemail messages from her where you can hear the inflection of joy and excitement in her voice to be able to do what most of us love to do, which is secure new employment opportunities and pursue our dreams. And that’s exactly what she was doing.
AMY GOODMAN: Your mom raised you as a single mom. How many sisters do you have?
SHARON COOPER: There are five of us. We refer to ourselves as the Fave Five.
AMY GOODMAN: And how do you want us to remember Sandy?
SHARON COOPER: As someone who was unapologetically confident—and that’s OK in today’s world—as somebody who was assertive and somebody who truly stood for what she believed in.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both for being with us. Sharon Cooper is Sandra Bland’s sister. Sandra Bland will be laid to rest, the funeral is tomorrow. Cannon Lambert is the attorney representing Sandra Bland’s family. They’re speaking to us from Chicago.
When we come back, we’ll be joined by the three women who started the Black Lives Matter movement, which Sandy Bland considered herself a proud member of. This is Democracy Now! We’ll be back in a minute.
"I Don't Believe Sandy Committed Suicide": #BlackLivesMatter Co-Founders Speak Out on Sandra Bland
As a Movement for Black Lives Convening is set to take place this weekend in Cleveland, we discuss the case of Sandra Bland and many others who have died in the custody of law enforcement with the three founders of the Black Lives Matter movement. Patrisse Cullors is the director of Truth and Reinvestment at the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in Oakland, California, and the founder of Dignity and Power Now, a grassroots organization in Los Angeles fighting for the dignity and power of incarcerated people and their families. Alicia Garza is special projects director for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. And Opal Tometi is executive director of the Black Alliance for Just Immigration.
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: This week, protests across the country have called for justice in Sandra Bland’s case. Here in New York, at least a dozen people were arrested Wednesday after sitting down and locking arms in the street. They also raised questions about the death of Kindra Chapman, an 18-year-old African American found dead in her jail cell in Alabama just one day after Sandra Bland was found dead. Chapman was arrested July 14th on accusations of stealing a cellphone. She was found unresponsive in her cell 80 minutes after she was booked. Just like in Bland’s case, authorities have claimed she hanged herself, but her family does not believe it. At the protest in New York, demonstrators also mourned India Clarke, a 25-year-old African-American transgender woman who was found beaten to death Tuesday in Tampa, Florida. These are some of the voices from the protest.
UNIDENTIFIED: And I’m a second year in college. I go to The New School. I actually came out because I was informed by one of my friends that this was happening. And all the time—this is actually my first protest. It doesn’t seem like it’s a very well-known topic. Since, like, things like Eric Garner and everything, like everybody knew about that, but not many people knew about this, so I felt like it was my duty to, like, spread the word about what had happened. So, it felt more urgent to me. SayHerName means that she’s not forgotten, that her spirit lives on and that her presence is here and that she has a voice and that her lives matter. And because her life matters, all of our lives matter.
KALISA MOORE: I am KaLisa Moore of Peoples Power Assemblies. My organization put this demonstration on today because we really just want answers, answers to questions we already know: What happened to Sandra Bland? What happened to Kindra Chapman? What happened to Kyam Livingston? What happened to Aiyana Stanley-Jones? We all—we know that, you know, we live in a country of white supremacy that is continuing to kill black and brown people, both men, women and children. And basically, we organized this because we are fed up and we’re no longer taking it anymore.
KIMBERLY: My name is Kimberly. I’ve been with PPA for a couple of months. Well, I’ve been coming out anyway since the fall for Mike Brown. And a few months ago, there was a rally for Rekia Boyd, and, you probably heard, only about 25 people showed up for that. So, ever since then, I felt like it was very important, whenever something happens to a black woman, to also show up, just because it’s disheartening to see that we don’t get the same numbers, really, as we do when a man is killed. So I wanted to come out in honor of her and, you know, just respect her life. I just feel like it’s our responsibility as black women to mention it, because if we’re not even mentioning it, no one else is going to know.
AMY GOODMAN: The lives of Sandra Bland, India Clarke, Renisha McBride, Aiyana Stanley-Jones, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Kajieme Powell, John Crawford and so many others will be the focus of a major Movement for Black Lives Convening in Cleveland this weekend. People from around the world are expected to attend.
For more, we go directly to Cleveland, where we’re joined by the three founders of the Black Lives Matter movement. Patrisse Cullors is the director of Truth and Reinvestment at the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights in Oakland, California, founder of the Dignity and Power Now, a grassroots organization in Los Angeles fighting for the dignity and power of incarcerated people and their families. Alicia Garza is special projects director for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. And Opal Tometi is executive director of the Black Alliance for Just Immigration.
We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Alicia, why don’t you begin on the significance of what has taken place, what you’re doing this weekend and the death of Sandra Bland?
ALICIA GARZA: You know, this weekend, over a thousand people are coming together to commemorate the lives of those of our family members who have been taken way too soon from us by police terrorism and state violence. And also we’re coming together to build a vision for the kind of world that we want to see. We want to see a world where black lives matter, in order for us to get to a world where all of our humanity is respected.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Alicia Garza, could you take us back to when you coined the term "Black Lives Matter" and then link it again to what’s happened in Sandra Bland’s case?
ALICIA GARZA: Sure, of course. I mean, when Black Lives Matter was started, it was a very similar moment to this, where Trayvon Martin had been murdered by George Zimmerman, and George Zimmerman was acquitted in that murder. So, while George Zimmerman got to go home to his family, Trayvon Martin’s family will always have an empty seat at the dinner table. And we decided to design Black Lives Matter as an opportunity for black folks to come together to love on each other, to celebrate our resilience in the face of such adversity, but also to come together to organize and to build our social, political and economic power to change our conditions.
And what’s happening here with Sandra Bland is no different. Sandy Bland was driving, minding her own business, and that traffic stop ended her life. And we all have questions about what happened in that jail cell. We have questions about why was she pulled over in the first place. But the larger question at stake is: Why do black lives have such little value in our society that they can be taken at whim, with no answers, no accountability and no justice?
AMY GOODMAN: Patrisse Cullors, if you could talk about—well, the allegation is that she hung herself, that Sandy committed suicide, that she had expressed that she had attempted suicide in the past. They didn’t put her in a suicide watch, if this is all true. You deal with issues like these of people who are in prison.
PATRISSE CULLORS: Yes. I don’t believe Sandy committed suicide. And unfortunately, this issue of people found hanging in their cells is very common inside U.S. jails and prisons. For one, oftentimes guards are killing people inside U.S. jails and prisons, and then they’re hanging them to cover up the death and the murder. And then, secondly, for those folks who actually do commit suicide, it’s often because they aren’t being cared for in the hands of sheriffs and the hands of prison guards. And so we have this crisis inside U.S. jails and prisons, where people are left, and they’re vulnerable, and they don’t have a camera, like we do on the streets, and they don’t have a hashtag, like we do with folks who are dying on the streets at the hands of law enforcement. And so I think this case with Sandy Bland is really, really important for us to take a look at the U.S. incarceration system and the impacts it has on black lives.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Patrisse Cullors, you have also worked specifically on county jails, and Sandra Bland died, was found dead, in a county jail. Could you talk about what the specific context and situation is in county jails as against other prisons in the U.S.?
PATRISSE CULLORS: Yes, I mean, the county jail is where you go while you’re awaiting trial, before you meet a judge. The county jail is where you go to really go through the process of whether you’re going to be prosecuted or not. And so, what we’ve seen, though, across the country is a trend, where people are ending up in county jails and being completely neglected. There’s severe medical neglect in county jails. There’s a significant amount of beatings that happen in county jails. And so, you’ve seen this in Los Angeles County. You’ve seen this in New York. You’ve seen this in Chicago, and now in Waller County. This isn’t—this isn’t new, unfortunately. And Sandy was a victim, a victim of state violence.
AMY GOODMAN: Opal Tometi, you are involved in immigration issues, as well as the whole issue of the way authorities treat people of color. You’re the daughter of two Nigerian immigrants, executive director of the Black Alliance for Just Immigration. Can you talk about the intersection of immigration and how people are treated of different hues in this country?
OPAL TOMETI: Yes. So, the reality is that criminalization of people of color is impacting us, whether you’re a citizen of the United States or you’re not. And what we’re seeing right now is the mass criminalization that is leaving low-income people of color, immigrant communities, whether you have legal permanent resident status, whether you’re undocumented, and it’s leaving them particularly vulnerable to the whims of local law enforcement and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
What we’re seeing now is the deputizing of local law enforcement officials, so police, sheriffs and so on given the authority to act as though they are ICE agents. And so, this leads to all sorts of mishandling of cases of folks who might be in or out of status in this country. And what we’re seeing is that this collusion between Immigration and Customs Enforcement and local law enforcement is causing for rampant immigration detention as well as deportation. So the vast numbers that we’re seeing, the growing numbers every day, we’re seeing thousands and thousands of people each week being deported. This is a result of the ways in which our immigration system and criminal justice system have now been intertwined.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break and then come back to this discussion. Our guests are Opal Tometi, Alicia Garza and Patrisse Cullors, the three co-founders of Black Lives Matter. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: Nina Simone singing "Strange Fruit," about lynchings in the South. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. Our guests are the three founders of the Black Lives Matter movement, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza and Opal Tometi, as we turn right now to what happened last weekend. Members of the Black Lives movement staged a protest inside the Netroots Nation conference in Phoenix by repeatedly interrupting Democratic presidential candidates Senator Bernie Sanders and former Maryland Governor Martin O’Malley. This is one of our guests today, Patrisse Cullors, interrupting Martin O’Malley’s portion of the event.
PATRISSE CULLORS: Let me be clear: Every single day folks are dying, not being able to take another breath. We are in a state of emergency. We are in a state of emergency! And if you don’t feel that emergency, you are not human.
AMY GOODMAN: Patrisse Cullors, can you take it from there, what you hoped to accomplish by addressing Governor O’Malley, as well as the group addressing Bernie Sanders, and what’s come of it?
PATRISSE CULLORS: Yes. That action was—yes, it was about the presidential candidates, but it was also about challenging white progressives. It was about challenging the notion that there’s only the lens of the economic justice agenda, and really challenging folks to look at the crisis in black America. Folks were very emotional during that rally, as you could hear in my voice. Sandy had just been murdered. We were trying to figure out how we were going to hold space for her at Netroots Nation. We wanted to make sure that we lifted up her name. And we wanted to make sure that folks didn’t go on with business as usual.
And so, part of that push inside of the presidential forum was to spark a debate, to spark a national debate amongst the candidates. And Hillary Clinton wasn’t there, but it was to challenge her, as well, to—people are often afraid to say black lives matter, they’re often afraid to use the word "black." And we are not. We are in this moment because it’s absolutely necessary that we start to figure out a black agenda. Otherwise, we will continue to see the deaths of black folks at the hands of law enforcement, at the hands of the state. Otherwise, we will continue to be in this crisis.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, I want to go back to that gathering. After the interruption, Senator Sanders threatened to leave the stage.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Black lives, of course, matter. And I’ve spent 50 years of my life fighting for civil rights and for dignity. But if you don’t want me to be here, that’s OK.
MODERATOR: No, sir, we want you to—
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: No, that’s OK.
MODERATOR: We want you to be here and address that and all the other questions.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: But I don’t want to out—I don’t want to out-scream people.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Meanwhile, Governor Martin O’Malley responded to the interruption by saying, "Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter."
MARTIN O’MALLEY: Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter. Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Governor Martin O’Malley later issued an apology for the comment.
MARTIN O’MALLEY: I meant no disrespect to the point, which I understand and that Black Lives Matter is making. For many years—many years ago, when I ran for mayor of Baltimore, majority-African-American city, when we had allowed ourselves to become the most violent, part of what—part of what I called us to, as a people, was to the justice of realizing that, yes, black lives matter, and when we allow ourselves to assume that every year, as a city, we just have to accept that 300 young black men will die violent deaths, that we have to do a checkup from the neck up and realize, as a people, that if 300 young, poor white men were dying, we would have a different reaction to this as a state and as a metro area and as a city. So I meant—that was a mistake on my part.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was presidential candidate Martin O’Malley. So, Patrisse, can you respond to how your interruption was responded to?
PATRISSE CULLORS: Yes, I think the interruptions—the presidential candidates’ responses were important. What they did is they actually probably went back to their teams, had a discussion about their responses and regretted it. I think they both did pretty horribly on stage. They both were unable to really listen to the needs of the Black Lives Matter protesters. I think they were defensive. And so, since then, we’ve seen a number of them sort of release statements saying that black lives matter. But at this point, we have to move beyond rhetoric. I think it’s great that they’re finally saying black lives matter, but if there is no agenda, if there’s no policies that are going to back that up, then what is it worth?
AMY GOODMAN: And your meeting that’s taking place this weekend, Opal Tometi?
OPAL TOMETI: Yeah, in many ways, the meeting that we’re having here in Cleveland, the Movement for Black Lives, is a gathering of hundreds, and even over a thousand, black young people, elders and various people from different walks of life, who are coming together, networking, sharing ideas, building our knowledge base for what’s going on, and developing strategies to combat the pervasive violence that we’re experiencing at the hands of law enforcement, but also all across the board. So we’re looking for a progressive, comprehensive racial justice agenda that really cuts across various issue areas.
So, you know, for me, for example, I’m looking for candidates to deliver on a racial justice agenda that incorporates the needs of black immigrants from the Caribbean, from Africa, from different parts of Latin America and so on. And so, I think it’s really important that we’re having these gatherings, we’re able to raise our voices, share the unique ways in which we are impacted by state violence, and articulate a new vision for black life in the United States of America and across the world.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Alicia Garza, the whole issue of the $15-an-hour minimum wage, some people might be saying, "Why are you bringing that into this right now?" But it seems the Black Lives Matter movement is the intersection of all these different movements, whether we’re talking immigration, whether we’re talking about police brutality, or even the $15 minimum wage. Can you talk about how that relates?
ALICIA GARZA: Yeah, I mean, the Black Lives Matter movement has to, by its very nature, be intersectional, because of the complexities of who black people are in this country and throughout the world. There is nothing separate about wages from black life and the survival of black people than police violence and police terrorism. We even still have a situation in this country where we have black workers who are not covered by federal labor protections, like domestic workers and farm workers. So we certainly can’t just look at the issues of police violence. Police violence is the tip of the iceberg when it relates to the conditions overall of black people across the globe.
And so, as Opal mentioned, this weekend, people are coming together from across sectors, from across communities, from a wide range of walks of life, to really try to both understand our complexities and understand how we use our complexities as a way to leverage power. We’re ultimately here to figure out how is it that we transform conditions in this country so that we can transform the conditions in our world?
AMY GOODMAN: You are three powerful women. Did you ever think the Black Lives Matter movement would take off in this way?
ALICIA GARZA: I think that we are all deeply, deeply committed to the liberation of black people. And so, when you put people together who have and share that commitment, the sky is the limit. And, you know, we operate with an incredible, incredible team that is networked throughout 26 chapters across the world. And this movement would not be possible, this kind of excitement and the generation of energy would not be possible, without a brilliant, courageous, bold and innovative team of people.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi, we want to thank you for being with us. We’re going to continue the conversation after the show and post it online at democracynow.org. The three co-founders of Black Lives Matter.
Headlines:
Louisiana: "Lone White Male" Fatally Shoots Two in Movie Theater
In Lafayette, Louisiana, three people were killed when a gunman opened fire in a packed movie theater. The shooter, described by authorities as a "lone white male," killed two people and wounded nine others before fatally shooting himself. The shooting came the same day a jury in Colorado unanimously concluded James Holmes could face the death penalty for his mass shooting in an Aurora movie theater, which left 12 people dead almost exactly three years ago.
Obama Calls U.S. Gun Laws His Biggest Frustration
Just hours before the shooting in Louisiana, President Obama told the BBC the failure to pass gun-control laws in the United States is his biggest frustration.
President Obama: "If you ask me where has been the one area where I feel that I’ve been most frustrated and most stymied, it is the fact that the United States of America is the one advanced nation on Earth in which we do not have sufficient, commonsense gun-safety laws, even in the face of repeated mass killings. And, you know, if you look at the number of Americans killed since 9/11 by terrorism, it’s less than a hundred. If you look at the number that have been killed by gun violence, it’s in the tens of thousands."
Turkey Launches First Direct Combat Missions Against ISIL
Turkey has taken two major steps to escalate the war against the self-proclaimed Islamic State following Monday’s deadly suicide bomb attack in the Turkish city of Suruc. The Turkish government agreed Thursday to allow the United States to use two of the country’s air bases, a move that one Obama administration official told The New York Times was a "game changer." Turkish forces also carried out the country’s first direct attacks against the self-proclaimed Islamic State, shelling militants along the Turkish-Syria border and launching airstrikes against targets in Syria. Meanwhile, Turkish police detained more than 250 people in Turkey this morning in raids targeting both suspected ISIL members and suspected Kurdish militants.
Syrian Army Begins Effort to Recapture Historic Palmyra from ISIL
In related news, the Syrian army has launched an offensive to recapture the historic city of Palmyra, which has been under the control of the self-proclaimed Islamic State since late May.
Pentagon: U.S. Airstrike Kills Top Al-Qaeda Commander in Afghanistan
U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter announced today that a U.S. airstrike killed a senior al-Qaeda operational commander two weeks ago in Afghanistan. The announcement comes as the U.S. has stepped up its airstrikes in Afghanistan this summer, despite Obama’s announcement earlier this year that the U.S. had officially ended combat operations in the country.
Obama to Arrive in Kenya for First Visit by a U.S. Sitting President
President Obama is arriving in Kenya today in his first visit to his father’s birthplace since taking office. He’s holding talks in the capital Nairobi about trade, security, counterterrorism and human rights before visiting Ethiopia, marking the first time a sitting U.S. president has visited either country. At least 10,000 police officers have been deployed across Nairobi to ensure Obama’s security. Obama’s speech before the African Union will mark the first time a sitting U.S. president has addressed the body.
Japan: Former PM Joins Protests to Save Pacifist Constitution
In news from Japan, former Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama has taken part in protests aimed at stopping the government from rewriting Japan’s pacifist constitution. Murayama, who is 91, joined a crowd of more than 2,000 people gathered outside the Parliament building on Thursday to denounce the security bills passed by the Parliament’s lower house a week ago. The measures would clear the way for Japanese forces to fight overseas for the first time since World War II. Murayama vowed to defend the peace constitution.
Tomiichi Murayama, former prime minister: "I don’t know how many years I have left, but as long as I live, I will do everything I can to protect the peace constitution. Let’s all work together for this."
Mexico: Report Finds Flaws in Investigation of Missing 43 Students
In news from Mexico, the independent National Human Rights Commission has found serious flaws in the government investigation of the disappearance of 43 students last year from the southern state of Guerrero. The commission’s report, issued Thursday, said that the Attorney General’s Office has failed to investigate the suspects in the case, and has not even gathered basic information about the students from the rural teacher’s college of Ayotzinapa, who authorities claim were killed by a local drug gang after being detained by local police. News reports have pointed to the possible role of federal authorities. Their disappearance sparked mass protests and calls for President Enrique Peña Nieto to resign. Commission President Luis Raúl González spoke Thursday.
Luis Raúl González, director of the National Human Rights Commission: "The case of Iguala has proven the level of barbarity that we’ve reached, and this is just one case — the abandonment of the law and forgetting justice. Iguala, unfortunately, joins other grave situations that have happened before and others that have happened after, which makes it evident that as long as authorities do not watch after human rights when they occur, then we will continue to be witnesses to similar incidents that we do not want."
Meanwhile, in two separate incidents this week, Mexican soldiers are being accused of fatally shooting a 12-year-old boy on Sunday in the western state of Michoacán and for being involved in the kidnapping of seven people found dead Saturday in the northern state of Zacatecas.
Authorities Say Sandra Bland Autopsy Consistent with Suicide
Law enforcement officials in Waller County, Texas, say the cause of Sandra Bland’s death in police custody was suicide. Bland was initially stopped for allegedly failing to signal a lane change. Dash cam footage shows Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia forcibly removed her from her car and threatened to "light [her] up" after she failed to put out her cigarette. On Thursday, Assistant Prosecutor Warren Diepraam said preliminary autopsy results show Bland hanged herself in jail.
Warren Diepraam, assistant prosecutor: "The only injury which was present on her neck or head was what’s called a ligature thorough or a ligature mark. This is consistent with a suicide, according to the Harris County Institute of Forensic Science, because the mark on her neck, which I will show pictures of at the completion of this discussion, is a uniform and consistent mark around the neck of Miss Bland. Had this been a violent struggle or a murder, you would most likely not expect to see a consistent and uniform ligature mark around her neck."
Sandra Bland’s family has questioned the official account, saying they don’t believe she committed suicide. We’ll speak with Sandra Bland’s sister, Sharon Cooper, and the family’s attorney after headlines.
House Passes Measure to Block State GMO Labeling Laws
House lawmakers have passed a measure to block states from requiring the labeling of genetically modified foods. The measure would nullify existing GMO labeling laws, which have passed but not yet taken effect in Vermont, Connecticut and Maine. Dubbed the Denying Americans the Right to Know, or DARK, Act, the bill was backed by corporate food interests, including the Grocery Manufacturers Association and Monsanto.
Hillary Clinton to Face Possible Criminal Probe over Private Email
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton may face a criminal investigation over the private email account that she used while serving as secretary of state. Two inspectors general have asked the Justice Department to open an investigation over whether she mishandled classified information by using a private email address and private server. The Justice Department has not yet announced whether it will take up the investigation.
Clinton Lobbyist Also Works for Private Prison Company GEO Group
Meanwhile, in more news from the Clinton campaign, The Intercept is reporting that at least one of Clinton’s top campaign lobbyists is also a registered lobbyist for the private prison giant GEO Group. The news raises questions about Clinton’s recent statement that, if elected, she would work to end mass incarceration.
Chile: Judge Charges 10 Former Officers in 1973 Murder of Víctor Jara
And in Chile, a judge has charged 10 former military officers in the 1973 murder of the beloved singer and political activist Víctor Jara. A member of the communist party, Jara was brutally murdered after the coup of U.S.-backed dictator Augusto Pinochet. Soldiers cut off his fingers, broke his hands and wrists, and finally shot him more than 40 times. His family has long sought justice in his case. Following the judge’s announcement, four of the 10 former officers turned themselves in immediately.
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